Elf traded to Phoenix for second rounder

[SOUL]

Payton nearly with a triple double, and nearly scored 30 for the Suns last night. 29/8/5 11-18 FG 2-4 3pt FG 5-7 FT

+/- -22 and they lost by a million points. He is good at producing empty stats for sure.

The people that keep parroting this is the people not watching the game. +/- is a good stat in very specific circumstances. This isn't one of them. He played extremely well against the best team in the league, his teammates didn't come to play.

[GatorbaitDD]

Payton nearly with a triple double, and nearly scored 30 for the Suns last night. 29/8/5 11-18 FG 2-4 3pt FG 5-7 FT

+/- -22 and they lost by a million points. He is good at producing empty stats for sure.

The people that keep parroting this is the people not watching the game. +/- is a good stat in very specific circumstances. This isn't one of them. He played extremely well against the best team in the league, his teammates didn't come to play.

I'm not parroting anything, it's a fact. Yes, he produced a nice stat line which he also did here from time to time. The problems with Payton haven't changed, at all.

[Furinkazan]

Just want them to enjoy Elf and give him a big 'ole pay day.... just stay the hell away from Trae Young.

let them have younger brother of DJ Augustine I have no problem with that.

[fklt]

-22 in a 50 point blowout sounds like a positive to be honest

[Nemesis21]

Payton nearly with a triple double, and nearly scored 30 for the Suns last night. 29/8/5 11-18 FG 2-4 3pt FG 5-7 FT

+/- -22 and they lost by a million points. He is good at producing empty stats for sure.

[GatorbaitDD]

Payton nearly with a triple double, and nearly scored 30 for the Suns last night. 29/8/5 11-18 FG 2-4 3pt FG 5-7 FT

+/- -22 and they lost by a million points. He is good at producing empty stats for sure.

Look, I get it. He has talent, I'm not doubting that. I'm just tired of people acting like moving Payton was completely crazy. This entire roster needs to be blown up. The entire roster. We have to go backwards before we can move forward. We need to rebuild the rebuild and Payton is the start to that imo.

[SOUL]

+/- -22 and they lost by a million points. He is good at producing empty stats for sure.

The people that keep parroting this is the people not watching the game. +/- is a good stat in very specific circumstances. This isn't one of them. He played extremely well against the best team in the league, his teammates didn't come to play.

I'm not parroting anything, it's a fact. Yes, he produced a nice stat line which he also did here from time to time. The problems with Payton haven't changed, at all.

I've just seen the whole +/- brought up by a couple of posters after the game just from box score watching. The people actually watching the game (including almost every Suns fan) were extremely impressed by him and wanted the rest of the team to actually contribute since Payton was setting them up and playing well on offense. The only reason to bring up -22 is insinuating that him playing well but the team sucking was somehow attributed to him.. which is sort of like attributing Afflalo being +17 in a game where he's in a lineup with 4 other people killing it while he goes 0/3 or something.

Payton did have the most win shares for the team last year. That means even though he did post better numbers after a certain time of the year, they weren't empty if it's actively adding to wins. And he's been consistent month to month this season as far as offensive numbers go. Defense is where he slipped, but he's definitely young enough and physically gifted enogh to become a solid defender like he was his first few years.

[SOUL]

+/- -22 and they lost by a million points. He is good at producing empty stats for sure.

Look, I get it. He has talent, I'm not doubting that. I'm just tired of people acting like moving Payton was completely crazy. This entire roster needs to be blown up. The entire roster. We have to go backwards before we can move forward. We need to rebuild the rebuild and Payton is the start to that imo.

That's fine, and I will totally admit when stats are bull. It just wasn't this game.

[Audi]

+/- -22 and they lost by a million points. He is good at producing empty stats for sure.

Look, I get it. He has talent, I'm not doubting that. I'm just tired of people acting like moving Payton was completely crazy. This entire roster needs to be blown up. The entire roster. We have to go backwards before we can move forward. We need to rebuild the rebuild and Payton is the start to that imo.

Typically, you don't blow up your entire roster starting with the 23 yo having a career year, but I get your point.

[GatorbaitDD]

Look, I get it. He has talent, I'm not doubting that. I'm just tired of people acting like moving Payton was completely crazy. This entire roster needs to be blown up. The entire roster. We have to go backwards before we can move forward. We need to rebuild the rebuild and Payton is the start to that imo.

Typically, you don't blow up your entire roster starting with the 23 yo having a career year, but I get your point.

What has been typical about this rebuild?

[NBlue]

+/- -22 and they lost by a million points. He is good at producing empty stats for sure.

Look, I get it. He has talent, I'm not doubting that. I'm just tired of people acting like moving Payton was completely crazy. This entire roster needs to be blown up. The entire roster. We have to go backwards before we can move forward. We need to rebuild the rebuild and Payton is the start to that imo.

What leads you to believe that this organization is going to do anything better with a new roster of young players? Seems to me we had a pretty good roster and the organization found a way to destroy it in just a few years. I have no faith that this organization will change that in the future just by changing the window dressing. I keep hearing the same things over and over and over. Failing to extend Mario made sense at the time because he wasn't playing that great. The Tobias trade made sense because our coach was not a fan of his and he wouldn't work well with the team. The Dipo trade made sense because we wanted to "win now" and Dipo was going to ask too much to re-sign and we got the better 2 with Evan anyway. Biz acquisition makes sense as it solidifies our defensive interior. Now you come with ditching Payton makes total sense as he wasn't succeeding with the team and we were losing games and his year-over-year improvement was just a mirage. We might as well get rid of him for next to nothing. Funny how every decision this organization makes with player acquisition/dismissal proves to be the wrong one -- but this time, this time they got it right, huh? Okay...

Welcome to Knicks South.

[GatorbaitDD]

Look, I get it. He has talent, I'm not doubting that. I'm just tired of people acting like moving Payton was completely crazy. This entire roster needs to be blown up. The entire roster. We have to go backwards before we can move forward. We need to rebuild the rebuild and Payton is the start to that imo.

What leads you to believe that this organization is going to do anything better with a new roster of young players? Seems to me we had a pretty good roster and the organization found a way to destroy it in just a few years. I have no faith that this organization will change that in the future just by changing the window dressing. I keep hearing the same things over and over and over. Failing to extend Mario made sense at the time because he wasn't playing that great. The Tobias trade made sense because our coach was not a fan of his and he wouldn't work well with the team. The Dipo trade made sense because we wanted to "win now" and Dipo was going to ask too much to re-sign and we got the better 2 with Evan anyway. Biz acquisition makes sense as it solidifies our defensive interior. Now you come with ditching Payton makes total sense as he wasn't succeeding with the team and we were losing games and his year-over-year improvement was just a mirage. We might as well get rid of him for next to nothing. Funny how every decision this organization makes with player acquisition/dismissal proves to be the wrong one -- but this time, this time they got it right, huh? Okay...

Welcome to Knicks South.

Dude we have an entirely new Front Office. This is their first full season. You cannot blame Hennigan's mistakes on Weltman and Hammond. You just cant. The Hezonja piece is ridiculous, I agree. Let's give them a chance to get some of their own players. I expect major changes this off season. I fully expect things to get worse before they get better. Payton falls into this scenario. We need to bottom out and try to find some cornerstone pieces. I'm not sure we have a single one right now, AG included.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

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[Optimus_Steel]

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This post and those tweets pretty much encapsulates the problem with Payton being your lead guard. He is left wide open while they go defend everyone else, his defender becomes a free safety able to roam around disputing things. He can exploit it by penetrating during the early parts of the game, in the 4th quarter the defense tightens and teams take away driving opportunities, he diminishes a ton at that point.

[SOUL]

Dude those weak ass screenshots lol. I can make a screenshot from a literal perfect game from Jordan or LeBron and make it look bad.

1st pic was on transition. Zaza missed the layup, Curry was trying to stop Elfrid from passing ahead or going into the lane by running with his back to him and his arms out, thought Elfrid was going to the paint, Elfrid passed it to the wing, received it back again, once Curry realized he didn't drive on the initial attempt he came back up and bodied up on Payton and he blew past Curry. Suns scored.

2nd pic Payton could've shot that, but didn't. Again it was right after them getting back on transition. Klay was lost (not daring Payton to shoot), Payton pump faked the shot, Klay ran up to him (aka not daring him to shoot), Payton bounce passed it to TJ Warren for the easy basket. Suns scored.

3rd pick, Durant got screened by Len (and he went under).. which I'm not sure what the point is. We go under on the best players in the world

Just weak ass screenshots if he's trying to point anything out or trying to prove a point. If he really wanted to prove something it would be just people ignoring him all together while doubling up on other players. Watch how dudes played Roberson and you'll see straight up disrespect.

Also says this:

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Magic fans like this dude look really desperate when they try to nitpick things that actually go against what they're trying to prove.

[Optimus_Steel]

Magic fans like this dude look really desperate when they try to nitpick things that actually go against what they're trying to prove.

Several of us have been saying these things about Payton for over a year. That's why his best role is as a change of pace backup PG.

[SOUL]

Magic fans like this dude look really desperate when they try to nitpick things that actually go against what they're trying to prove.

Several of us have been saying these things about Payton for over a year.

That's fine, but if people are trying to prove a point by screenshotting developing plays out of context, it makes me lose respect for the argument. I mean, I watch the Magic enough to know Payton's strengths and weaknesses and situations where what he's trying to say happened actually happened. But he literally used screenshots of players losing their players for 1 or 2 seconds and then recovering as them "daring Payton to shoot" thus rendering the criticism of what he's trying to point out invalid. That's my beef.

It's like lying to somebody and saying it's raining outside when it's sunny. Pick a rainy day to do that and it's much easier for somebody to believe it before once they open the curtains.

[pepe1991]

What's a point of pointing out now that he plays well?
That ship sailed.

I wish him nothing but best whenever he goes but when he was here he simply wasn't good enough to be keeper for next contract. Period.

Let's say some facts. Whole 2014 draft class, but Embiid is one huge underachiving group of players where 6 of 14 lottery picks were already traded. Only one of 14 guys made it to allstar game after 4 years . Almost all of others were involved in some sort of trade rumors last 4 years.
Minus Gordon, nobody even looks like somebody who might become star ( well let's be fair to Jabari and include him as well. ).
Lot of them don't look like nba players, let alone stars.

So can we stop acting like Magic are only team that sold his 4th year player low ? Not really . Kings are cutting lottery pick from 2016, Jah Okafor and Russell were 2# and 3# overall pick from Mario's draft class, both traded , Trey Lyles, Mudiay , Payne got traded ,and they are in their just 3rd season. Sabonis and Dunn got traded after finishing ROOKIE year.

That's reality in nba . You are only one of few things:
a) face of franchise
b) upcomming superstar
c) role player
d) bust/ bench player

Teams are not trading only a) option, and good are not willing to trade b) option, but if you are c) or d) you will probably change a lot of teams through your nba career. And whenever you go they will look to replace you with somebody with more potential. I can write whole book of " searching for untapped potential as road to mediocrity and busts" but that's topic for another story. Where teams will gamble on Bruno Cobocolo and pass on Bogdan Bogdanovic, Hood, Capela and Jokić in process because their projection of what somebody might be is based on nothing but wishful thinking in 99% of cases . That's why every year we have more and more busts and players who are 2 years away from being 2 years away from rotation.

[MagicStarwipe]

SOUL, I commend you.

Elfrid, you're in a better place bro.

[SOUL]

What's a point of pointing out now that he plays well?

Same can be said if he plays bad or nitpicking single plays like that guy tried to do (woefully, I might add)

While I agree with some of what you wrote, to answer your question,people are always going to talk about former players that had a lot of interest from fans here. Happened with Oladipo, Tobias for a year or two... will happen with Payton and I'm sure with Vuc or Fournier if they're moved too. Just natural when a player has spent years here and is playing elsewhere. Human nature.