Official Speculation Thread ‘19-'20 III: It's B-ball Time !!!

[tiderulz]

-Admits Bamba had "a setback" in July, but it was minor and he's gotten much stronger
We'll see how it goes. I'm not overly optimistic about Bamba.
-Confirms Mo will start out as the backup C and Khem has already been told of the plan
Totally understand why Clifford is going this route, but really hope he has the stones to pull the plug on Mo if he plays terribly.

disagree with this. Birch and Bamba should be fighting for backup center. backups shouldnt be guaranteed anything, they should have to earn it. Make sure you know the plays in practice so you dont eff up in the game.

[thelead]

-Admits Bamba had "a setback" in July, but it was minor and he's gotten much stronger
We'll see how it goes. I'm not overly optimistic about Bamba.
-Confirms Mo will start out as the backup C and Khem has already been told of the plan
Totally understand why Clifford is going this route, but really hope he has the stones to pull the plug on Mo if he plays terribly.

disagree with this. Birch and Bamba should be fighting for backup center. backups shouldnt be guaranteed anything, they should have to earn it. Make sure you know the plays in practice so you dont eff up in the game.

Eh... if Mo is not motivated because he is guaranteed a BACKUP spot, being that he was a high lotto pick, he will never pan out and will be the 3rd string center very quickly. I still believe in Mo. He’s either going to be our starting center in a few years or traded for solid backcourt depth.

[Knightro]

disagree with this. Birch and Bamba should be fighting for backup center. backups shouldnt be guaranteed anything, they should have to earn it. Make sure you know the plays in practice so you dont eff up in the game.

This is a more direct way of saying what I think as well.

I very much hope to be wrong, but I am hard pressed to envision a scenario where Bamba is more effective than Birch this year.

Bamba has more potential over all and in order to unlock that potential he's going to need to consistently play, but at the same time this team is trying to make the playoffs again and hopefully play well enough to get a seed higher than 7th this year.

Can Clifford pull off the balancing act of giving guys who need developmental minutes (Bamba and fingers crossed Fultz) at the expense of veterans (MCW, Birch) who might give a team who has playoff aspirations the best possible chance to win on a night-to-night basis?

[Creativetran]

disagree with this. Birch and Bamba should be fighting for backup center. backups shouldnt be guaranteed anything, they should have to earn it. Make sure you know the plays in practice so you dont eff up in the game.

This is a more direct way of saying what I think as well.

I very much hope to be wrong, but I am hard pressed to envision a scenario where Bamba is more effective than Birch this year.

Bamba has more potential over all and in order to unlock that potential he's going to need to consistently play, but at the same time this team is trying to make the playoffs again and hopefully play well enough to get a seed higher than 7th this year.

Can Clifford pull off the balancing act of giving guys who need developmental minutes (Bamba and fingers crossed Fultz) at the expense of veterans (MCW, Birch) who might give a team who has playoff aspirations the best possible chance to win on a night-to-night basis?

We are not good enough to not play our highest ceiling guys. I am willing to lose a few games here and there for development of our young studs.

[Knightro]

We are not good enough to not play our highest ceiling guys. I am willing to lose a few games here and there for development of our young studs.

I feel like a strong majority of this board is going to share this sentiment.

But Steve Clifford isn't in the business of setting this team up for 2021 and 2022 at the expense of 2019 either.

It's going to be interesting to see how it shakes out.

[Popsicle1228]

disagree with this. Birch and Bamba should be fighting for backup center. backups shouldnt be guaranteed anything, they should have to earn it. Make sure you know the plays in practice so you dont eff up in the game.

This is a more direct way of saying what I think as well.

I very much hope to be wrong, but I am hard pressed to envision a scenario where Bamba is more effective than Birch this year.

Bamba has more potential over all and in order to unlock that potential he's going to need to consistently play, but at the same time this team is trying to make the playoffs again and hopefully play well enough to get a seed higher than 7th this year.

Can Clifford pull off the balancing act of giving guys who need developmental minutes (Bamba and fingers crossed Fultz) at the expense of veterans (MCW, Birch) who might give a team who has playoff aspirations the best possible chance to win on a night-to-night basis?

We are not good enough to not play our highest ceiling guys. I am willing to lose a few games here and there for development of our young studs.

I agree for the most part, but it is difficult to deny that it will be a delicate balancing act for an organization who is trying to instill a winning culture by competing in the playoffs consistently. As we experienced last season, those few games can have a massive impact on a 42 win team.

[tiderulz]

disagree with this. Birch and Bamba should be fighting for backup center. backups shouldnt be guaranteed anything, they should have to earn it. Make sure you know the plays in practice so you dont eff up in the game.

This is a more direct way of saying what I think as well.

I very much hope to be wrong, but I am hard pressed to envision a scenario where Bamba is more effective than Birch this year.

Bamba has more potential over all and in order to unlock that potential he's going to need to consistently play, but at the same time this team is trying to make the playoffs again and hopefully play well enough to get a seed higher than 7th this year.

Can Clifford pull off the balancing act of giving guys who need developmental minutes (Bamba and fingers crossed Fultz) at the expense of veterans (MCW, Birch) who might give a team who has playoff aspirations the best possible chance to win on a night-to-night basis?

We are not good enough to not play our highest ceiling guys. I am willing to lose a few games here and there for development of our young studs.

that creates entitlement by the younger guys. Whether they are playing well or not, guaranteed a spot

[T-Cat]

This is a more direct way of saying what I think as well.

I very much hope to be wrong, but I am hard pressed to envision a scenario where Bamba is more effective than Birch this year.

Bamba has more potential over all and in order to unlock that potential he's going to need to consistently play, but at the same time this team is trying to make the playoffs again and hopefully play well enough to get a seed higher than 7th this year.

Can Clifford pull off the balancing act of giving guys who need developmental minutes (Bamba and fingers crossed Fultz) at the expense of veterans (MCW, Birch) who might give a team who has playoff aspirations the best possible chance to win on a night-to-night basis?

We are not good enough to not play our highest ceiling guys. I am willing to lose a few games here and there for development of our young studs.

that creates entitlement by the younger guys. Whether they are playing well or not, guaranteed a spot

Why put Bamba through all that? It's almost like this organization wants Bamba to put up or shut up! He needs to play extremely well to stay afloat in the rotation!

Meanwhile guys like Trae Young and Mitchell Robinson are playing well without the unnecessary pressure of getting benched if they make mistakes!

Hopefully this not the case with Bamba!

[pepe1991]

disagree with this. Birch and Bamba should be fighting for backup center. backups shouldnt be guaranteed anything, they should have to earn it. Make sure you know the plays in practice so you dont eff up in the game.

This is a more direct way of saying what I think as well.

I very much hope to be wrong, but I am hard pressed to envision a scenario where Bamba is more effective than Birch this year.

Bamba has more potential over all and in order to unlock that potential he's going to need to consistently play, but at the same time this team is trying to make the playoffs again and hopefully play well enough to get a seed higher than 7th this year.

Can Clifford pull off the balancing act of giving guys who need developmental minutes (Bamba and fingers crossed Fultz) at the expense of veterans (MCW, Birch) who might give a team who has playoff aspirations the best possible chance to win on a night-to-night basis?

We are not good enough to not play our highest ceiling guys. I am willing to lose a few games here and there for development of our young studs.

And they are highest ceiling guys because ? I mean centers at college on most of nights go against teams that don't have anybody over 6'10, let alone anybody with some actual talent over 6'10.
C position for that reason gave more busts than any other basketball position.
In last 9 years guys like EKpe Udoh, Tristan Thompson, Tomas Robinson, jan Vesely, Biyombo, Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Noel, Jakob Pöltl, Maker . Each and every single one of them was high lottery pick. Not a single one of them should be starting in NBA. And i didn't even have to reach , just went through 2011-2017 draft, aside from guys you can count on fingers of your one hand like KAT, Embiid and Drummond, literally almost all of them are bums.

Bottom line, Bamba looked good at college , each and every single one of guys above aslo did. His career will be made of what he can do in league where 7 footer isn't as rare as footage of tasmanian tiger, like it's case in youth competitions and in college.

[ezzzp]

Markelle Fultz DID change his shot form. He admitted it. Brett Brown admitted it. His trainer admitted it. Anyone with two eyes can see his shot changed. Regardless of the reason why, his shot form was dramatically altered between July 2017 and September 2017. That is indisputable.

The variances are what matter. That is what I was and have been talking about - and you know it. You are again trying to deflect and make it sound like I am trying to pass off that his shot was not different.

The variances matter because there are important implications and differences that contextualize each statement and when it was said: one is a subtle gradual degradation of form from pain...another is an alteration of form to directly address pain... another is an intentional adjustment to improve overall shooting...and yet another is a recalibration to adjust prior alteration to shot form.

Markelle Fultz is on record in 2017 as saying one of his main goals that offseason was to adjust himself to the longer three point line. I already put the quote in this thread. Now was that a bold faced lie to hide the fact he was hurt? Could be, but he still said it. I can't say with 100% certainty that Fultz's desire to adjust to the longer three point line definitely involved him altering his jump shot form, but based on his own words as well as the words of his head coach that all came out BEFORE any claims of injury came out, it stands to reason that Fultz was looking to adjust his form on his own as a way to adjust to the longer 3PT line.

And again, that statement is from September 28th (and he NEVER said "that offseason," those are words that you inserted)...the 76ers had already been working with him before that trying to "recalibrate" his shot. You do not know when the discussion of injury or pain issues began. We do know that they gave him "a" cortisone shot that week.

Why in the world would a #1 pick who had the capacity to shoot off-the-bounce from anywhere on court (including deep shots well behind college 3PT line) intentionally choose to change his shot mechanics?

It does not stand to reason at all. Trainers use strengthening to address that, changing form is risky and not something they normally do unless that player's form is already problematic...which Fultz' wasn't.

or the shooting adjustments that Fultz is referring to are the one that he was currently working on with the 76er staff

Uhhh no. Fultz reported to camp with a completely janky shot and the Sixers were trying to get him back to how he previous shot the ball, only to discover that he had a mental block and couldn't replicate his old form.

Uhhh yes. Brown stated day 1 of training camp that the 76ers had been recalibrating his shot. Fultz comment on that same day literally starts with him saying he was working on fixing his FT form back to how it looked in college. That absolutely does not sound like something a player (that had just finished college) would say was his strategy heading into summer.

The last time the Sixers saw him in July, his shot was fine. He showed up to camp 3 months later with a shot that is utterly broken to the point of him not even being able play basketball effectively. When asked about the changes in his jumper, Fultz publicly admitted on September 28th that he had reworked his shot to adjust to the longer 3PT line and even went so far as to say that his FT stroke was just something he was "messing around with" and that his form would look like it did in college once the season began.
He didn't mention anything on the record about an injury causing him to change his form until October 10th.

No, they saw him before training camp. On September 28th (first day of training camp), Brown stated that they had been working with him to recalibrate his shot and that same week injected him with cortisone. Brown even stated "we’ve done stuff with him" and then immediately blamed Fultz trainer.

I mean no disrespect by this whatsoever, but this comes off INCREDIBLY naive about the process of sports medicine in professional athletics. The Sixers medical staff in this case has one goal. Get the player healthy enough to play. If that means giving him a cortisone shot to help with his soreness, they're going to give it to the shot even if they aren't convinced that he's sore because above all else the team's medical staff's primary goal is getting Fultz's body in a position where he's able to play. This is how it likely went down...

I mean no disrespect, but you literally just said: "doctors don't give them out every time an athlete complains about soreness" ...so now they are just indiscriminately "appeasing" him - even though they know they are injecting him with a drug whose side effects include: nerve damage, cartilage damage, death of nearby bone, joint infection, and tendon weakening or rupture.

...and NOW you are saying that the 76ers were aware that he was having shoulder issues, after you repeatedly said that the 76ers were not aware of any shoulder issues until late October.

[Blue_and_Whte]

disagree with this. Birch and Bamba should be fighting for backup center. backups shouldnt be guaranteed anything, they should have to earn it. Make sure you know the plays in practice so you dont eff up in the game.

This is a more direct way of saying what I think as well.

I very much hope to be wrong, but I am hard pressed to envision a scenario where Bamba is more effective than Birch this year.

Bamba has more potential over all and in order to unlock that potential he's going to need to consistently play, but at the same time this team is trying to make the playoffs again and hopefully play well enough to get a seed higher than 7th this year.

Can Clifford pull off the balancing act of giving guys who need developmental minutes (Bamba and fingers crossed Fultz) at the expense of veterans (MCW, Birch) who might give a team who has playoff aspirations the best possible chance to win on a night-to-night basis?

We are not good enough to not play our highest ceiling guys. I am willing to lose a few games here and there for development of our young studs.

We don't need to lose a few games in order to develop anyone and luckily we have a coach that knows that. There's plenty of development playing in the POs especially when you get your ass kicked. Everyone will be given they're opportunity if they've earned it and that's how it should be. These are grown men, make them work for their minutes.

[Knightro]

I mean no disrespect, but you literally just said: "doctors don't give them out every time an athlete complains about soreness" ...so now they are just indiscriminately "appeasing" him - even though they know they are injecting him with a drug whose side effects include: nerve damage, cartilage damage, death of nearby bone, joint infection, and tendon weakening or rupture.

...and NOW you are saying that the 76ers were aware that he was having shoulder issues, after you repeatedly said that the 76ers were not aware of any shoulder issues until late October.

I'm don't really feel like going to go line-by-line with you anymore because you're mostly arguing semantics about when the team realized Fultz's shot was different, but I do want to clarify one thing...

When I said "doctors don't give out cortisone shots every time an athlete complains about soreness" - I meant AFTER the first shot has been administered. If you're still sore a week later they don't give you another one.

Considering Markelle Fultz's agent said on 10/24 that Fultz had received a cortisone shot on 10/6 and doctors typically refuse to give them out more than every 6 weeks to 2 months, logically it stands to reason that Markelle had one cortisone shot only.

[ezzzp]

Do you give a cortisone shot to a player that is not injured or not having pain? No you don't. That's the point.

Also, the fluid going in or out could be a simple error made by Brothers one that he corrected it once he realized or was told what the implications were between the two. OR it could have just as easily been the 76ers who told him to change his statement for PR reasons as one indicates a more serious issue.

You're still badly missing the point.

Markelle Fultz *said* he was hurt. Whether or not the Sixers believed him or didn't believe him is irrelevant in this case. Their job as a medical staff is to provide treatment to an injured player and get him back on the court as quickly and efficiently as possible.

The Sixers examined him. The Sixers had other people outside the organization examine him. They repeatedly provided him treatment when he said he was hurt. They found nothing wrong with Fultz structurally, but Markelle still insisted that he was hurt. The Sixers want him to play, so they're going to continue treating him as best they can whether they think he's faking it or not.

The logical next step in the process would be an injection designed specifically to treat soreness and inflammation, which is what they did.

It's naive to think the Sixers WOULDN'T try and address his injury in every reasonable way they had even if they were skeptical on how he got hurt or on how much he was actually hurting/if he was hurting at all.

No you are badly missing the point.

You have been insisting the the 76ers were not aware of any health issues and that Fultz hadn't told anyone about them until weeks later.

Then when I pointed to the evidence that said that the 76ers had injected him with cortisone shots, you made a point to say it was just one because trainers "don't just give that out every time a player has soreness".

Now all of a sudden, when its convenient, you are saying that those trainers are just indiscriminately "appeasing" Fultz with a cortisone shot - even though they know they are injecting him with a drug whose side effects include: nerve damage, cartilage damage, death of nearby bone, joint infection, and tendon weakening or rupture.

In addition you are totally disregarding the characteristics of TOS.

[j-ragg]

Some people on here are so condescending. Makes me curious how they interact with people in real life - if they do.

[ezzzp]

I'm not going to go line-by-line with you anymore because you're mostly arguing semantics about when the team realized Fultz's shot was different, but I do want to clarify one thing...

When I said "doctors don't give out cortisone shots every time an athlete complains about soreness" - I meant once the first shot has been administered. If you're still sore a week later they don't give you another one.

Considering Markelle Fultz's agent said on 10/24 that Fultz had received a cortisone shot on 10/6 and doctors typically refuse to give them out more than every 6 weeks to 2 months, logically it stands to reason that Markelle had one cortisone shot only.

You are doing the exact same thing, I'm merely countering your interpretation of the language, terminology and dates that suit your theory.

...kind of how you chose specific language to make a cortisone shot sound like not a big deal - which is why I pointed out the very serious side effects that go along with it....you know, things like "nerve damage."

[pepe1991]

Some people on here are so condescending. Makes me curious how they interact with people in real life - if they do.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Some people on here are so condescending. Makes me curious how they interact with people in real life - if they do.

Guilty. I'm totally condescending and passive aggressive straight to peoples faces if they're **** to me. I know that's hard to believe.

[Knightro]

You are doing the exact same thing, I'm merely countering your interpretation of the language, terminology and dates that suit your theory.

...kind of how you chose specific language to make a cortisone shot sound like not a big deal - which is why I pointed out the very serious side effects that go along with it....you know, things like "nerve damage."

One single cortisone shot for someone, professional athlete or not, is not a big deal whatsoever.

I went into Orlando Foot & Ankle Clinic one time a few years back with a sore foot. They did x-rays on the spot and everything came back clean.

Five minutes later, you know what they did?

They gave me a cortisone shot. And they did it without even really asking me if I thought I needed it. It was second nature. I was in there for 15 minutes and they went from x-ray to cortisone shot without giving it a second thought.

It's a very common procedure for people who have general soreness and inflammation with nothing structurally wrong.

A cortisone shot is only *dangerous* to the human body if you get too many shots in too short of a period of time. Generally the accepted timeline is one every 6-8 weeks.

[VFX]

This is a more direct way of saying what I think as well.

I very much hope to be wrong, but I am hard pressed to envision a scenario where Bamba is more effective than Birch this year.

Bamba has more potential over all and in order to unlock that potential he's going to need to consistently play, but at the same time this team is trying to make the playoffs again and hopefully play well enough to get a seed higher than 7th this year.

Can Clifford pull off the balancing act of giving guys who need developmental minutes (Bamba and fingers crossed Fultz) at the expense of veterans (MCW, Birch) who might give a team who has playoff aspirations the best possible chance to win on a night-to-night basis?

We are not good enough to not play our highest ceiling guys. I am willing to lose a few games here and there for development of our young studs.

And they are highest ceiling guys because ? I mean centers at college on most of nights go against teams that don't have anybody over 6'10, let alone anybody with some actual talent over 6'10.
C position for that reason gave more busts than any other basketball position.
In last 9 years guys like EKpe Udoh, Tristan Thompson, Tomas Robinson, jan Vesely, Biyombo, Cody Zeller, Alex Len, Noel, Jakob Pöltl, Maker . Each and every single one of them was high lottery pick. Not a single one of them should be starting in NBA. And i didn't even have to reach , just went through 2011-2017 draft, aside from guys you can count on fingers of your one hand like KAT, Embiid and Drummond, literally almost all of them are bums.

Bottom line, Bamba looked good at college , each and every single one of guys above aslo did. His career will be made of what he can do in league where 7 footer isn't as rare as footage of tasmanian tiger, like it's case in youth competitions and in college.

Unless they are considered generational talent, selecting Centers in the top of the lottery is almost always a huge mistake. Bamba wasn’t and had obvious issues with his game. Vuc being the primary option on offense and our highest usage player adds more fuel to the fire that it was a stupid pick.

Bamba’s going to develop regardless. The game will slow down for him and he’s going to be in better condition. However, he’s definitely not going to be getting any valuable minutes being behind Vuc, while providing essentially what Birch already does only better. Let’s be honest, practicing against Vuc will prove to be only so valuable until he’s going to have to provide more than shot blocking and parallel defense to Birch.

If Fultz doesn’t pan out, the lacking back court will be an ongoing issue for what seems like forever. Hopefully this next draft has a point guard with a 7ft wingspan that WeHam can sell themselves on. That seems like the only way it will be addressed otherwise.

[ezzzp]

One single cortisone shot for someone, professional athlete or not, is not a big deal whatsoever. The only time I went into Orlando Foot & Ankle Clinic one time a few years back with a sore foot one time. They did x-rays on the spot and everything came back clean. Five minutes later, you know what they did? They gave me a cortisone shot. And they did it without even really asking me if I thought I needed it. It was second nature. I was in there for 15 minutes and they went from x-ray to cortisone shot without giving it a second thought. It's a very common procedure for people who have general soreness and inflammation with nothing structurally wrong.

Would you have been ok that they didn't tell you about those very serious side effects if one of them did occur and negatively impacted your life? ...especially if they had charged you or your insurance for it to pad the bill.