Moderators: ChosenSavior, UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass
I keep thinking of Luka Garza when I see him.MartinsIzAfraud wrote:If they take Wolf I’m done. Dude screams oldest, smartest player who benefits from a college system. Dude is a turnover machine, 21st worst in CBB, mediocre defender, lacks physicality & he needs the ball to be who he is.
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:If they take Wolf I’m done. Dude screams oldest, smartest player who benefits from a college system. Dude is a turnover machine, 21st worst in CBB, mediocre defender, lacks physicality & he needs the ball to be who he is.
I thought the same about Kyle filipowski.... And yet he's playing well in the leagueMartinsIzAfraud wrote:If they take Wolf I’m done. Dude screams oldest, smartest player who benefits from a college system. Dude is a turnover machine, 21st worst in CBB, mediocre defender, lacks physicality & he needs the ball to be who he is.
KillMonger wrote:I thought the same about Kyle filipowski.... And yet he's playing well in the leagueMartinsIzAfraud wrote:If they take Wolf I’m done. Dude screams oldest, smartest player who benefits from a college system. Dude is a turnover machine, 21st worst in CBB, mediocre defender, lacks physicality & he needs the ball to be who he is.
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Idiosyncratic wrote:I mean we are talking pick 27 for Wolf, that is nearly a 2nd rounder. He's tall and has some obviously translatable skills. He's not going to be a primary ball-handler in the NBA unless he randomly hit 99th percentile star outcome so not too worried about the turnovers. Can he be an Olynyk or Jaylin Williams with more handle? Maybe and that would be a really solid 27th pick. Not one of my favorite options, but he has grown on me. Wouldn't be bad value late 1st. With our first pick? Yeah it would be OK to be a little upset.
Wolf I think can be a much better rebounder then moefendilim wrote:Idiosyncratic wrote:I mean we are talking pick 27 for Wolf, that is nearly a 2nd rounder. He's tall and has some obviously translatable skills. He's not going to be a primary ball-handler in the NBA unless he randomly hit 99th percentile star outcome so not too worried about the turnovers. Can he be an Olynyk or Jaylin Williams with more handle? Maybe and that would be a really solid 27th pick. Not one of my favorite options, but he has grown on me. Wouldn't be bad value late 1st. With our first pick? Yeah it would be OK to be a little upset.
I agree. Danny Wolf wouldnt be a bad choice for the 27th especially if we’re talking about MoeWagner ceiling.
i’d love to have khanan. He is a perfect fit to PaoloSkybox wrote:I don’t get the Wolf stuff. Terrible fit with Paolo & Franz, more like Moe…but we have a Moe already.
Good player, tremendous potential value at DEN slot, but why double down on poorly assembling a roster that makes sense…we are out of BPA territory as a team and, certainly that late in the draft.
Do any of you see what I think I see in Maluach? To me, other than Top 2 guys- he’s the only ORL dream in the draft…everything else I want this summer is already in the NBA.
fendilim wrote:i’d love to have khanan. He is a perfect fit to PaoloSkybox wrote:I don’t get the Wolf stuff. Terrible fit with Paolo & Franz, more like Moe…but we have a Moe already.
Good player, tremendous potential value at DEN slot, but why double down on poorly assembling a roster that makes sense…we are out of BPA territory as a team and, certainly that late in the draft.
Do any of you see what I think I see in Maluach? To me, other than Top 2 guys- he’s the only ORL dream in the draft…everything else I want this summer is already in the NBA.
Rim runner, can rebound, moves well and block shots
Skybox wrote:I don’t get the Wolf stuff. Terrible fit with Paolo & Franz, more like Moe…but we have a Moe already.
Good player, tremendous potential value at DEN slot, but why double down on poorly assembling a roster that makes sense…we are out of BPA territory as a team and, certainly that late in the draft.
Do any of you see what I think I see in Maluach? To me, other than Top 2 guys- he’s the only ORL dream in the draft…everything else I want this summer is already in the NBA.
Skybox wrote:fendilim wrote:i’d love to have khanan. He is a perfect fit to PaoloSkybox wrote:I don’t get the Wolf stuff. Terrible fit with Paolo & Franz, more like Moe…but we have a Moe already.
Good player, tremendous potential value at DEN slot, but why double down on poorly assembling a roster that makes sense…we are out of BPA territory as a team and, certainly that late in the draft.
Do any of you see what I think I see in Maluach? To me, other than Top 2 guys- he’s the only ORL dream in the draft…everything else I want this summer is already in the NBA.
Rim runner, can rebound, moves well and block shots
I'd give up quite a bit to secure that pick and have a cost-controlled monster for the next decade...It's always a big bet with these raw guys...but he could really contribute in the limited ways we need from C, even while raw
Rumors of him having a nice shooting stroke are just gravy to me.
Skybox wrote:fendilim wrote:i’d love to have khanan. He is a perfect fit to PaoloSkybox wrote:I don’t get the Wolf stuff. Terrible fit with Paolo & Franz, more like Moe…but we have a Moe already.
Good player, tremendous potential value at DEN slot, but why double down on poorly assembling a roster that makes sense…we are out of BPA territory as a team and, certainly that late in the draft.
Do any of you see what I think I see in Maluach? To me, other than Top 2 guys- he’s the only ORL dream in the draft…everything else I want this summer is already in the NBA.
Rim runner, can rebound, moves well and block shots
I'd give up quite a bit to secure that pick and have a cost-controlled monster for the next decade...It's always a big bet with these raw guys...but he could really contribute in the limited ways we need from C, even while raw
Rumors of him having a nice shooting stroke are just gravy to me.
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:If they take Wolf I’m done. Dude screams oldest, smartest player who benefits from a college system. Dude is a turnover machine, 21st worst in CBB, mediocre defender, lacks physicality & he needs the ball to be who he is.
ogmagicfan wrote:Skybox wrote:fendilim wrote:i’d love to have khanan. He is a perfect fit to Paolo
Rim runner, can rebound, moves well and block shots
I'd give up quite a bit to secure that pick and have a cost-controlled monster for the next decade...It's always a big bet with these raw guys...but he could really contribute in the limited ways we need from C, even while raw
Rumors of him having a nice shooting stroke are just gravy to me.
This was the game that had my eyes completely open on him. Only 17 years old playing against Team USA doing this.
Ditto on the cost controlled contract, under the assumption that we're set at the 2,3, & 4 with Suggs, Franz, & Paolo, our best bet to get a cheaper contract would be at the 5, not the 1. PG's take a longer time to be positive contributors, so Center is our best bet through the draft.
I'm really high on him. If we have to throw in more than our 2 1sts, say a pick swap, a 2nd, or a player like Goga to grab him, I'm jumping on the first opportunity. There's no Center we could trade for that could hypothetically give us the skillset he has at his size/contract.
Question is, will Weltham actually get off his ass to make a deal? It'd have to be with either the Raptors or Bulls
Skybox wrote:ogmagicfan wrote:Skybox wrote:
I'd give up quite a bit to secure that pick and have a cost-controlled monster for the next decade...It's always a big bet with these raw guys...but he could really contribute in the limited ways we need from C, even while raw
Rumors of him having a nice shooting stroke are just gravy to me.
This was the game that had my eyes completely open on him. Only 17 years old playing against Team USA doing this.
Ditto on the cost controlled contract, under the assumption that we're set at the 2,3, & 4 with Suggs, Franz, & Paolo, our best bet to get a cheaper contract would be at the 5, not the 1. PG's take a longer time to be positive contributors, so Center is our best bet through the draft.
I'm really high on him. If we have to throw in more than our 2 1sts, say a pick swap, a 2nd, or a player like Goga to grab him, I'm jumping on the first opportunity. There's no Center we could trade for that could hypothetically give us the skillset he has at his size/contract.
Question is, will Weltham actually get off his ass to make a deal? It'd have to be with either the Raptors or Bulls
My thoughts exactly...at this point in our team building process, you PAY to get exactly what you need and, maybe, you pay a little more (draft equity or some other asset) to get it with less salary commitment. I'd rather pay to get Maluach than Kessler or Clingan, for example, because they will be looking for extensions sooner...even if the other side of the equation is that they're a little more proven. The stuff we need is a lot easier to project, imo - strength, motor, size, rebounding, defensive footwork...Also, you make a big point that should be VERY clear by now, developing BBIQ, leadership, court vision, etc as a playmaker/PG is a lot tougher to project or, at the very least, takes years we don't have...so trade for THAT guy after you draft THIS guy (Maluach).
Here's my favorite, that gets even more because the "vet" is only one year into rookie contract but has shown out...
PHI sends: Jared McCain, Kelly Oubre, 25 pick swap (presently #6 for #15)
ORL sends: WCJ, AB, ORL 25, DEN 25, ORL 26
ORL gets their perfect-fit Lead Guard and Center (Maluach) on rookie-scale deals. PHI doesn’t see serious difference makers for them at #6, so they pile up draft equity for further flexibility going forward. Black next to Maxey is a really good-looking long-term fit too, but McCain’s tremendous rookie campaign makes the price heavy beyond swapping the guards. WCJ provides muscle & versatility next to Embiid, as well as when the big guy misses time.
If McCain is untouchable...ORL 25 + AB for PHI 25 should accomplish what we need and I honestly think McCain/Maxey is a limited upside long-term vision...like CJ & Dame ultimately were revealed to be
ogmagicfan wrote:Skybox wrote:fendilim wrote:i’d love to have khanan. He is a perfect fit to Paolo
Rim runner, can rebound, moves well and block shots
I'd give up quite a bit to secure that pick and have a cost-controlled monster for the next decade...It's always a big bet with these raw guys...but he could really contribute in the limited ways we need from C, even while raw
Rumors of him having a nice shooting stroke are just gravy to me.
This was the game that had my eyes completely open on him. Only 17 years old playing against Team USA doing this.
Ditto on the cost controlled contract, under the assumption that we're set at the 2,3, & 4 with Suggs, Franz, & Paolo, our best bet to get a cheaper contract would be at the 5, not the 1. PG's take a longer time to be positive contributors, so Center is our best bet through the draft.
I'm really high on him. If we have to throw in more than our 2 1sts, say a pick swap, a 2nd, or a player like Goga to grab him, I'm jumping on the first opportunity. There's no Center we could trade for that could hypothetically give us the skillset he has at his size/contract.
Question is, will Weltham actually get off his ass to make a deal? It'd have to be with either the Raptors or Bulls
ogmagicfan wrote:Skybox wrote:ogmagicfan wrote:
This was the game that had my eyes completely open on him. Only 17 years old playing against Team USA doing this.
Ditto on the cost controlled contract, under the assumption that we're set at the 2,3, & 4 with Suggs, Franz, & Paolo, our best bet to get a cheaper contract would be at the 5, not the 1. PG's take a longer time to be positive contributors, so Center is our best bet through the draft.
I'm really high on him. If we have to throw in more than our 2 1sts, say a pick swap, a 2nd, or a player like Goga to grab him, I'm jumping on the first opportunity. There's no Center we could trade for that could hypothetically give us the skillset he has at his size/contract.
Question is, will Weltham actually get off his ass to make a deal? It'd have to be with either the Raptors or Bulls
My thoughts exactly...at this point in our team building process, you PAY to get exactly what you need and, maybe, you pay a little more (draft equity or some other asset) to get it with less salary commitment. I'd rather pay to get Maluach than Kessler or Clingan, for example, because they will be looking for extensions sooner...even if the other side of the equation is that they're a little more proven. The stuff we need is a lot easier to project, imo - strength, motor, size, rebounding, defensive footwork...Also, you make a big point that should be VERY clear by now, developing BBIQ, leadership, court vision, etc as a playmaker/PG is a lot tougher to project or, at the very least, takes years we don't have...so trade for THAT guy after you draft THIS guy (Maluach).
Here's my favorite, that gets even more because the "vet" is only one year into rookie contract but has shown out...
PHI sends: Jared McCain, Kelly Oubre, 25 pick swap (presently #6 for #15)
ORL sends: WCJ, AB, ORL 25, DEN 25, ORL 26
ORL gets their perfect-fit Lead Guard and Center (Maluach) on rookie-scale deals. PHI doesn’t see serious difference makers for them at #6, so they pile up draft equity for further flexibility going forward. Black next to Maxey is a really good-looking long-term fit too, but McCain’s tremendous rookie campaign makes the price heavy beyond swapping the guards. WCJ provides muscle & versatility next to Embiid, as well as when the big guy misses time.
If McCain is untouchable...ORL 25 + AB for PHI 25 should accomplish what we need and I honestly think McCain/Maxey is a limited upside long-term vision...like CJ & Dame ultimately were revealed to be
Pretty much, I'm not big on going heavy on trades where we're not getting a star back, but the value in getting Khaman is not only the fit/talent of his, but the flexibility it would afford our team, especially with how the current CBA is. By the time Khaman's rookie contract is complete, the NBPA will have a new negotiated CBA done, and hopefully one that doesn't restrict teams spending as much as the current. A trade for him would give us the ability to trade for a PG that could be making 30-40+ mil if the Devos show they're willing to pay 1st apron.
I wonder how receptive Phili would be about making a trade there, so tough to know how they'd want to take the direction of their team moving forward with the question marks around PG & Embiid, considering Maxey is young and ready to contribute on a high level.
The fit of AB next to Maxey would be great, and if we do the 2nd option of yours (which I think is more likely), would solidify a 3 man guard rotation for them for the next 5+ years.
You can bet that teams with higher draft picks will be reaching out to us about trade packages of our 2 picks. This draft is really deep and there will be teams who fall in love with a player back in the draft. Tier 1 is Cooper. Tier 2 is Harper, Ace, Edgecombe, and maybe Jakucionis. Tier 3 is pretty deep (picks 5-15/16), same with Tier 4. Our pick will be fringe Tier 3. The Denver pick will be Tier 4
Idiosyncratic wrote:ogmagicfan wrote:Skybox wrote:
My thoughts exactly...at this point in our team building process, you PAY to get exactly what you need and, maybe, you pay a little more (draft equity or some other asset) to get it with less salary commitment. I'd rather pay to get Maluach than Kessler or Clingan, for example, because they will be looking for extensions sooner...even if the other side of the equation is that they're a little more proven. The stuff we need is a lot easier to project, imo - strength, motor, size, rebounding, defensive footwork...Also, you make a big point that should be VERY clear by now, developing BBIQ, leadership, court vision, etc as a playmaker/PG is a lot tougher to project or, at the very least, takes years we don't have...so trade for THAT guy after you draft THIS guy (Maluach).
Here's my favorite, that gets even more because the "vet" is only one year into rookie contract but has shown out...
PHI sends: Jared McCain, Kelly Oubre, 25 pick swap (presently #6 for #15)
ORL sends: WCJ, AB, ORL 25, DEN 25, ORL 26
ORL gets their perfect-fit Lead Guard and Center (Maluach) on rookie-scale deals. PHI doesn’t see serious difference makers for them at #6, so they pile up draft equity for further flexibility going forward. Black next to Maxey is a really good-looking long-term fit too, but McCain’s tremendous rookie campaign makes the price heavy beyond swapping the guards. WCJ provides muscle & versatility next to Embiid, as well as when the big guy misses time.
If McCain is untouchable...ORL 25 + AB for PHI 25 should accomplish what we need and I honestly think McCain/Maxey is a limited upside long-term vision...like CJ & Dame ultimately were revealed to be
Pretty much, I'm not big on going heavy on trades where we're not getting a star back, but the value in getting Khaman is not only the fit/talent of his, but the flexibility it would afford our team, especially with how the current CBA is. By the time Khaman's rookie contract is complete, the NBPA will have a new negotiated CBA done, and hopefully one that doesn't restrict teams spending as much as the current. A trade for him would give us the ability to trade for a PG that could be making 30-40+ mil if the Devos show they're willing to pay 1st apron.
I wonder how receptive Phili would be about making a trade there, so tough to know how they'd want to take the direction of their team moving forward with the question marks around PG & Embiid, considering Maxey is young and ready to contribute on a high level.
The fit of AB next to Maxey would be great, and if we do the 2nd option of yours (which I think is more likely), would solidify a 3 man guard rotation for them for the next 5+ years.
You can bet that teams with higher draft picks will be reaching out to us about trade packages of our 2 picks. This draft is really deep and there will be teams who fall in love with a player back in the draft. Tier 1 is Cooper. Tier 2 is Harper, Ace, Edgecombe, and maybe Jakucionis. Tier 3 is pretty deep (picks 5-15/16), same with Tier 4. Our pick will be fringe Tier 3. The Denver pick will be Tier 4
Agree with what you are saying about trades in general. But I think there are going to be some teams in the process that have Maluach over even Ace and definitely over Jakucionis. I think there is maybe a chance he slips, but also think there's a chance some team values him top 6 or so, so I really don't think he will slip to a trade up range. In theory I don't have a problem with it though.