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Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.)

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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#321 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:35 pm

AddiFB wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:Losing doesn't always constitute to winning a few years later. There are many instances where teams are built without have to become bottom dwellers for a few years. It happens all the time. It is just making wise decisions with player personel with good cap management. A team is not made just because of the draft.

Clippers spent like 20 years being bottom feeders. They had numerous top 10, top5 and even a number 1 pick. What did that get for them until they traded for Chris Paul.


Clippers are a bad example. They've had numerous chances, quite a few good players, but their owner has been a jerk to them and eventually they've been traded away. They've got something good going for them now, which is good.


I disagree on the Clippers part. Teams like Clippers and Bobcats just prove that even though it may seem you draft well, sometimes players and personel just don't work out. Hence, a team can get stuck as perennial losers just because they tanked and never get out of that cellar for an even longer duration because there is a 50/50 chance those players don't pan out. Especially, when you can outright sign star players to combine with a few crafty draft picks that turn into decent role players.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#322 » by AddiFB » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:38 pm

I'm willing to give Team Henny a chance in the draft. If Otis Gang was still around, I'd be weeping under my bed, hoping for a miracle.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#323 » by gp123 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:44 pm

Playing the lotto game, even if you do so "Smartly" is still a lot of luck. You could be playing that game for a lot longer then a couple years.

No one wants to be stuck in mediocrity, and I'm not at all interested in making the playoffs for the sake of an assured first round exit. But there are other ways to improve our position that won't breed a culture of losing too.

Tanking the later half of the season is probable, but that can't be our mentality starting out.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#324 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:45 pm

I am looking at past drafts and it seems that maybe 30-40% of players in the top 10 actually pan out as solid starters in this league.

If people think that tanking guarantees success, then they are in for a rude awakening. It is not one person evaluating that talent, but many people. Henny will just be the one pulling the trigger. There are no guaratees either way. I would rather go with clearing cap space and adding to a nucleus of BBD/JJ/Harkless/Vucevic in 2014. That is what I think Henny is shooting for also.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#325 » by AddiFB » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:46 pm

I think BBD and JJ will be trade pieces this year, not built around.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#326 » by Cigamodnalro » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:47 pm

AddiFB wrote:I think BBD and JJ will be trade pieces this year, not built around.

One can hope. Any opportunity to a) open minutes for the development of our young players and b) acquire draft picks and other flexible assets we have to take.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#327 » by AddiFB » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:49 pm

Cigamodnalro wrote:
AddiFB wrote:I think BBD and JJ will be trade pieces this year, not built around.

One can hope. Any opportunity to a) open minutes for the development of our young players and b) acquire draft picks and other flexible assets we have to take.


I'm all for opening up minutes for the younglings. I'd more than welcome JJ as a vet and as a career long Magic player, I love the guy. But I'm feel like he will be traded.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#328 » by MagicFan41 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:55 pm

I know everybody likes to think that expiring contracts are just very easily traded, but honestly, what team is really going to give much of substance (even in draft picks, because most teams wanting JJ would prob be a contender-type team with very low 1st round picks)? Every year tons of contracts expire in the NBA, and they don't just go getting traded left and right. There are still issues often times of salary matching, plus it has to make sense for both teams, etc etc. There are many factors. And JJ is essentially the exact type of player/person the Magic are trying to build around for the future AND he wants to be in Orlando. I think Harrington is much more likely to get traded than JJ is to be honest (we are stacked at the 3-4 spot now). Harrington can still put up 17-7 type numbers, even at this stage in his career. A contender or a team willing to eat luxury tax (like Brooklyn) might very well take him on and send us a smaller expiring/draft pick perhaps. I just don't see all that many teams in desperate need of salary dumping, that would net us a good enough draft pick or player in return to get rid of JJ for. Name some.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#329 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Oct 29, 2012 5:57 pm

LOL at trading JJ/BBD who are still relatively young and keeping Afflalo/Hedo/Harrington. I am for the other way around. I think BBD and JJ are players this team could build around. Not as much as players, but as role models and leaders.

FYI. You don't just take youth and say this is what we are building around. You need solid vets around them.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#330 » by OrlChamps2030 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:01 pm

I agree tanking is no guarantee. Personally I'd rather be a first round exit and be a piece or two away, hoping that someone steps up into that role, versus tanking. There is no guarantee in the lotto. There is often times when guys who are selected 6-10 end up being better than guys selected before them. Basically IMO the whole thing is a crap shoot. Too many variables. Strength of draft class, strength of each position, busts, team needs, team's selections that draft before the magic, injury, and the lottery process itself are all variables.

Proven talent is the only guarantee in the NBA. Being in the cellar is no fun, real life isn't 2k12 you can't just sim through seasons. I just hope we can make a good draft selection next year and get this thing moving forward. Losing sucks. I hope we don't face any major setbacks like a lot of rebuilding teams do.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#331 » by JBSouthpaw » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:02 pm

I actually think Gustavo will be a possible trade piece heading to the trade deadline.
It appears he wants to head overseas, so if we can grab a 1st rounder for him from a contender I'd jump on it.
of course, he has to play well before then.
maybe you can package him with Harrington or Affalo, get rid of a long contract and someone who is going to leave anyway for something in return?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#332 » by AddiFB » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:09 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:LOL at trading JJ/BBD who are still relatively young and keeping Afflalo/Hedo/Harrington. I am for the other way around. I think BBD and JJ are players this team could build around. Not as much as players, but as role models and leaders.

FYI. You don't just take youth and say this is what we are building around. You need solid vets around them.


I never said I'd want BBD or JJ traded. Just what I think will happen. As a matter of fact, I said I'd want JJ to remain with the Magic for his career.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#333 » by MoMM » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:47 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:I actually think Gustavo will be a possible trade piece heading to the trade deadline.
It appears he wants to head overseas

I dont think he wants to head overseas, Barcelona bought his rights, but he had no biz about it, he couldnt choose about it. If he was an european dude Europe could appease him, but he is from Mexico, so i dont think it's the case and another important factor is that he will make much more money in NBA than in Europe, no way he will make MLE kind of money in Europe when his current deal ends. Europe will always b a Plan B for NBA players.

Ayon is a hot commodity for us, he can help fill arenas with mexicans, produces in court and has a really low sallary. We can't ask for more than this. McRob will make twice his money this season and Ayon has another 1.5M/year deal after this season. That's great.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#334 » by jezzer45 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 6:51 pm

Im all in for drafting but in reality top 3 is where the game changers usually fall and we gotta lose a lot just to get enough lotto balls for a better % which is all luck remember what happened to the celts right before trading for kg.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#335 » by MagicFan41 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:20 pm

jezzer45 wrote:Im all in for drafting but in reality top 3 is where the game changers usually fall and we gotta lose a lot just to get enough lotto balls for a better % which is all luck remember what happened to the celts right before trading for kg.


I actually believe we need to be trying to go more the Celtics big-3 type route. We will have a decent amount of cap room, an enormous TPE to absorb a superstar if we want, or a couple of 2nd tier guys. We will also probably have a semi-decent draft pick at worst, along with a few other halfway decent draft picks down the road for Henny n co to work with. We have a raw, but talented crew of young guys to work around (Vucevic, Harkless, Nicholson, Daquan) - all making between $1-$2 mil/yr for the foreseeable future, which helps our rebuilding project a TON. Once Turk is off the books in a year or two, combined with cap space, a huge TPE we can use, some draft picks, and our core group....we can flesh out the roster quickly and easily (assuming free agents are interested in coming here which they usually are for a variety of reasons). Remember, Rondo was picked around 10th in that draft wasn't he? You don't always need a top 3 pick to pick well in the draft. Tony Parker, Manu, Blair, were all picked late in the 1st round by the Spurs. The Spurs haven't had a good draft pick since Duncan, and they've drafted just fine to fill our their roster and stay contenders for 15 years (even after Duncan declined).

Something to think about though...

Our TPE expires Aug 10 2013 (I asked Henny himself specifically what date it was). He seemed very excited about the fact that it was "late into the summer" (which maybe was also a reason we waited a bit to trade Dwight), because he says we can explore trades, free agency, draft etc....all before working the TPE angle. So anyways, from what Henny told me, it seems as though they are going to try to maneuver as much as possible before using the TPE, and then use the TPE to probably be able to absorb large amounts of salary above the cap. Because if a team has cap room, they can't use the TPE first, they have to use the cap room. So it makes sense that we will probably pursue a trade/free agent signing next summer and then make a move with our large TPE afterwards. Combine those two things, along with the draft, and you could see a HUGE influx of talent to our roster next summer. Possibly 2 max-level type guys, along with our draft pick, along with the young guys, along with our future draft picks from the Dwight trade going forward. I'll take that all day.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#336 » by JBSouthpaw » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:36 pm

MoMM wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:I actually think Gustavo will be a possible trade piece heading to the trade deadline.
It appears he wants to head overseas

I dont think he wants to head overseas, Barcelona bought his rights, but he had no biz about it, he couldnt choose about it. If he was an european dude Europe could appease him, but he is from Mexico, so i dont think it's the case and another important factor is that he will make much more money in NBA than in Europe, no way he will make MLE kind of money in Europe when his current deal ends. Europe will always b a Plan B for NBA players.

Ayon is a hot commodity for us, he can help fill arenas with mexicans, produces in court and has a really low sallary. We can't ask for more than this. McRob will make twice his money this season and Ayon has another 1.5M/year deal after this season. That's great.


I agree, I think Ayon is a heck of a value. I do remember before camp, there was talk that he wanted to be overseas, not just about his rights being sold over there. I also see his value to a playoff team, willing to give a pic or another younger player back. Teams like Dallas, who are starting Eddy Curry!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#337 » by MagicFan41 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:53 pm

JBSouthpaw wrote:
MoMM wrote:
JBSouthpaw wrote:I actually think Gustavo will be a possible trade piece heading to the trade deadline.
It appears he wants to head overseas

I dont think he wants to head overseas, Barcelona bought his rights, but he had no biz about it, he couldnt choose about it. If he was an european dude Europe could appease him, but he is from Mexico, so i dont think it's the case and another important factor is that he will make much more money in NBA than in Europe, no way he will make MLE kind of money in Europe when his current deal ends. Europe will always b a Plan B for NBA players.

Ayon is a hot commodity for us, he can help fill arenas with mexicans, produces in court and has a really low sallary. We can't ask for more than this. McRob will make twice his money this season and Ayon has another 1.5M/year deal after this season. That's great.


I agree, I think Ayon is a heck of a value. I do remember before camp, there was talk that he wanted to be overseas, not just about his rights being sold over there. I also see his value to a playoff team, willing to give a pic or another younger player back. Teams like Dallas, who are starting Eddy Curry!


Pretty sure Dallas is gonna play Kaman most of the minutes. They better, I got him on my fantasy team hehe.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII 

Post#338 » by Nyce_1 » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:06 pm

http://arronafflalo4.com/dayinthelife

Watch the video. It's about 20 minutes long.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4x5OrkoFCk&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#339 » by Rick Rolled » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:20 pm

I'm assuming they won't be streaming tonight's open practice...?
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Re: Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVIII"Preseason"Ed.) 

Post#340 » by Blue_and_Whte » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:24 pm

Being in the lottery doesn't guarantee anything, but it sure as Hell increases your chances of landing a very good player. I think they rebuild through free agency if the plan is to rebuild quickly.
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