Chuma Okeke drafted #16 by the Orlando Magic

[SOUL]

Also I read this throughout draft night, but I really want to hear what a rookie that "contributes right away" is at the 16th pick that wasn't Chuma. Even the 16th picks that have turned out to be good/great/solid players (Nurkic, Vuc, Hedo, Ron Artest, Rozier), none of them did much of anything their rookie years, and the one that averaged the most (Ron Artest) averaged it on very bad shooting numbers.

People are probably meaning playing right away, and that just screams impatience. I understand it's exciting to see rookies be on the court and getting playing time, but contributing usually means helping, which means unless you're going against 15 years of data, the alternatives that people were whining about more than likely weren't going to do much of anything. There is also no guarantee a guard would get more minutes than a backup PF either. Especially if DJ is playing, Fultz is playing, and we re-sign Ross. It's literally the same position as Chuma playing behind Gordon and Isaac. It's just that the FO thought Chuma had better potential than the guards at those spots. Now, if we ignore guard next year in the draft, obviously I'll be much more critical.. but it makes sense to me here.

So my point is people just need to let it develop and happen, and Chuma can be on the court playing AND contributing in a reasonable time frame.

[Blue_and_Whte]

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So not the alpha male this team needs. Check.

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[SOUL]

Watch on YouTube

So not the alpha male this team needs. Check.

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Oh stop with the BS prerequisites you put on a pick 16 rookie. How about put it on the all star of the team?

[pepe1991]

Also I read this throughout draft night, but I really want to hear what a rookie that "contributes right away" is at the 16th pick that wasn't Chuma. Even the 16th picks that have turned out to be good/great/solid players (Nurkic, Vuc, Hedo, Ron Artest, Rozier), none of them did much of anything their rookie years, and the one that averaged the most (Ron Artest) averaged it on very bad shooting numbers.

People are probably meaning playing right away, and that just screams impatience. I understand it's exciting to see rookies be on the court and getting playing time, but contributing usually means helping, which means unless you're going against 15 years of data, the alternatives that people were whining about more than likely weren't going to do much of anything. There is also no guarantee a guard would get more minutes than a backup PF either. Especially if DJ is playing, Fultz is playing, and we re-sign Ross. It's literally the same position as Chuma playing behind Gordon and Isaac. It's just that the FO thought Chuma had better potential than the guards at those spots. Now, if we ignore guard next year in the draft, obviously I'll be much more critical.. but it makes sense to me here.

So my point is people just need to let it develop and happen, and Chuma can be on the court playing AND contributing in a reasonable time frame.

But you know the way this will go:
won't play this year at all
Will play 2020-2021 and will be called rookie
By the time we know he is anything, he will be in his thrid season, playing his second season, with 100-140 games as sample size, with 4th year option to pick.

That's why most teams stay off injuried players if they are not projected transending stars.

Not to mention what will happen if his rehab doesn't go well, or he re-injuries himself.
Dennis Smith Jr had some partial ACL tear but it wasn't major because he had one extra ligament in body ( don't ask me what or how, but he did ) , yet we see with him and Parker, they just don't last whole season.

[Ducklett]

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Would you consider Kawhi an alpha?

[Skybox]

Also I read this throughout draft night, but I really want to hear what a rookie that "contributes right away" is at the 16th pick that wasn't Chuma. Even the 16th picks that have turned out to be good/great/solid players (Nurkic, Vuc, Hedo, Ron Artest, Rozier), none of them did much of anything their rookie years, and the one that averaged the most (Ron Artest) averaged it on very bad shooting numbers.

People are probably meaning playing right away, and that just screams impatience. I understand it's exciting to see rookies be on the court and getting playing time, but contributing usually means helping, which means unless you're going against 15 years of data, the alternatives that people were whining about more than likely weren't going to do much of anything. There is also no guarantee a guard would get more minutes than a backup PF either. Especially if DJ is playing, Fultz is playing, and we re-sign Ross. It's literally the same position as Chuma playing behind Gordon and Isaac. It's just that the FO thought Chuma had better potential than the guards at those spots. Now, if we ignore guard next year in the draft, obviously I'll be much more critical.. but it makes sense to me here.

So my point is people just need to let it develop and happen, and Chuma can be on the court playing AND contributing in a reasonable time frame.

To take it a step further, you can’t make comparisons very far back because even very good players had 3 or more years of high level college ball to develop and display who they are. Now, if a kid is 22, it’s a negative-like there’s no expectation or hope for improvement unless you’re in diapers...total crapshoot

[spinedoc]

Not a good comparison, but Anthony Bennett.

6-8, 245, and Steven A. Smith's biggest draft bust of all time, lol. And Love, 245 and 6-10. Don't dare mention AG, its my main criticism of him. He's the poster child right now for me. Keep trying.

Anthony Bennett Weight: 239 lbs. Height (w/shoes): 6'7" Wingspan: 7'1" - Source: http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Anthony-Bennett-5866/ ©DraftExpress

from NBAdraft.net

Code: Select all

Notes: Measured 6'7 (in shoes) 242 lbs, with a 7'1 wingspan at the LeBron James Skills Academy

so 6'7

Okay, but I'll take your first comment as not being a good comparison. It was inferred that the play6er was at least semi successful. Wiki says he's playing for the Maine Red Claws? So, probably shouldn't have been drafted at all.

[spinedoc]

I don't understand why all these Chinese gymnasts are contorting themselves so much over this pick. It was obviously a questionable draft for the Magic at best, especially considering the complete punt in the second round. No one is rooting for Chuma to fail. He is a member of the team now, but let's at least be intellectually honest with ourselves here. An undersized, injured, older tweener two picks outside the lottery is not a good pick. It at least invites criticism, actually begs for it. So, don't come down on us that glaringly see it, just because you don't. There is a difference between being a fan and a sycophant. I'm going to try to move on now, but it is what it is.

[yoyojw17]

So absolutely hate Weltman explaining/rationalizing his pick by saying well “we had a GM picking behind us saying he would’ve taken him so we took him at 16”. Weltman also went on to say they had plenty of trade back calls but they were worried they’d trade back too far.


Seems like a convenient excuse now that he’s seen said reaction by fans etc etc.

I don't think in convenient at all. If you look at all the movement of some of the mock drafted players , with tons of them being taken much later than expected.... it would not have surprised me that there were teams that would have taken a "surefire lottery pick if it wasn't for the injury" beyond the 16th spot. So yeah.... If you say that you know you wanted a particular guy and you think there is a threat for that people are already eyeing him you stand pat. lol... better than the suns going from drafting coby white at 6 to moving down to 11th to get cam johnson. lol

p.s. i think they might make a hard push at deangelo clearing up extra cap... and ty jerome is security

[Skybox]

Tweener is a word that probably needs to be retired. In today’s NBA it’s celebrated. No longer are 6’7 long-armed college bruisers who physically dominate in college (example: Corliss Williamson) coming into the NBA and getting brutalized by Vuc types on every team. Its a different world, Kawhi, Draymond, LBJ are the new ideal....this guy has the right body if he can move. We’ll see. I’m not saying he’s all-NBA or even a starter, but his size and shape are not a problem...either was Bennett’s

[yoyojw17]

Also I read this throughout draft night, but I really want to hear what a rookie that "contributes right away" is at the 16th pick that wasn't Chuma. Even the 16th picks that have turned out to be good/great/solid players (Nurkic, Vuc, Hedo, Ron Artest, Rozier), none of them did much of anything their rookie years, and the one that averaged the most (Ron Artest) averaged it on very bad shooting numbers.

People are probably meaning playing right away, and that just screams impatience. I understand it's exciting to see rookies be on the court and getting playing time, but contributing usually means helping, which means unless you're going against 15 years of data, the alternatives that people were whining about more than likely weren't going to do much of anything. There is also no guarantee a guard would get more minutes than a backup PF either. Especially if DJ is playing, Fultz is playing, and we re-sign Ross. It's literally the same position as Chuma playing behind Gordon and Isaac. It's just that the FO thought Chuma had better potential than the guards at those spots. Now, if we ignore guard next year in the draft, obviously I'll be much more critical.. but it makes sense to me here.

So my point is people just need to let it develop and happen, and Chuma can be on the court playing AND contributing in a reasonable time frame.

Agreed!

The thing is.... the exciting thing to see filled is the thing that WE currently see as the glaring hole... especially when you think that ross is an unrestricted free agent... and then like those that after a down season says... "FOurnier is garbage and now he needs to go".... all of a sudden the immediate thoughts are that SG is the onlyyyyyyyy thing that needs an upgrade and this is the time to get that SG of the future.

Maybe it could have been partly true... if say langford or herro had dropped to 16... we might not have heard okeke's name. BUT.... we don't know what the teams vision is. To them 17 mill on fourniers contract for the next 2 years is a quality deal and that he will bounce back with another year with cliff, he will be used better, he will just naturally bounce back, the addition of Fultz who they believe will be healthy will change the entire landscape of the team etc.

Or they straight believe Okeke was their must have player and the guard position could be filled out in different ways because they have their eyes on particular "mid level but if given the chance they could be that much better" type of players.

We are not on the in with all these discussions...so we can't get bogged down with what "weeeeeee want" cuz at the end of the day... our 1000 ideas still does not matter in the final decisions. It's not like our polls on here actually apply to the decision making in the front office. hahaha... would be cool though.

[yoyojw17]

Watch on YouTube

So not the alpha male this team needs. Check.

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Would you consider Kawhi an alpha?

Exactly what i was going to say. There are no Alpha personalities on that team. They actually have the "this train is going as far as WE all can go with our max effort".... it's just that they have an alpha Talent Kawhi. And alpha personalities don't grow on trees.... but amassing quality and hard working personalities with potential is probably nearly just as difficult. But WeHam are certainly doing a good job with those. Just gotta see those player talents bloom and catch up to their desires and effort.

[spinedoc]

Tweener is a word that probably needs to be retired. In today’s NBA it’s celebrated. No longer are 6’7 long-armed college bruisers who physically dominate in college (example: Corliss Williamson) coming into the NBA and getting brutalized by Vuc types on every team. Its a different world, Kawhi, Draymond, LBJ are the new ideal....this guy has the right body if he can move. We’ll see. I’m not saying he’s all-NBA or even a starter, but his size and shape are not a problem...either was Bennett’s

Where I come from, we call that denial. Its probably why every child is an honor student now and gets a trophy for anything. In my world there are still paste eating mouth breathers and not every one as precious as the next. Things are circular. Even if you retire the word, it will come back, or at least still have relevance in certain circles. Namely mine, lol.

[Skybox]

Tweener is a word that probably needs to be retired. In today’s NBA it’s celebrated. No longer are 6’7 long-armed college bruisers who physically dominate in college (example: Corliss Williamson) coming into the NBA and getting brutalized by Vuc types on every team. Its a different world, Kawhi, Draymond, LBJ are the new ideal....this guy has the right body if he can move. We’ll see. I’m not saying he’s all-NBA or even a starter, but his size and shape are not a problem...either was Bennett’s

Where I come from, we call that denial. Its probably why every child is an honor student now and gets a trophy for anything. In my world there are still paste eating mouth breathers and not every one as precious as the next. Things are circular. Even if you retire the word, it will come back, or at least still have relevance in certain circles. Namely mine, lol.

Where do you come from, 1985? Whose giving out trophies? We shouldn’t build our roster to game plan for Jack Sikma

[spinedoc]

Tweener is a word that probably needs to be retired. In today’s NBA it’s celebrated. No longer are 6’7 long-armed college bruisers who physically dominate in college (example: Corliss Williamson) coming into the NBA and getting brutalized by Vuc types on every team. Its a different world, Kawhi, Draymond, LBJ are the new ideal....this guy has the right body if he can move. We’ll see. I’m not saying he’s all-NBA or even a starter, but his size and shape are not a problem...either was Bennett’s

Where I come from, we call that denial. Its probably why every child is an honor student now and gets a trophy for anything. In my world there are still paste eating mouth breathers and not every one as precious as the next. Things are circular. Even if you retire the word, it will come back, or at least still have relevance in certain circles. Namely mine, lol.

Where do you come from, 1985? Whose giving out trophies? We shouldn’t build our roster to game plan for Jack Sikma

Actually, that is the year I graduated high school. Does your mom still have the mini van with all your honor roll stickers on it?

[Bensational]

He caught me by surprise, but I am pumped for this guy.

6'7 with a 7' wingspan, a 230lb body, and the athleticism, length and strength to cover 2-4.

He hits the 3, can (apparently) make the pass, gets to the rim with a variety of moves ranging from strength (some powerful dunks) to craft, to freak contortion. Handles the ball well enough to get him where he needs to be (near the rim).

He can come in and cover 2-4 for any sub, lineup or rotation just fine - providing he's healthy and a capable NBA player.

Where I see really exciting potential is if he can last full time at SG. Defensively, he's not as quick as some, but his length makes up for that, and he's still explosive once he decides to go for something. His athleticism should be comparable to Fournier's, at the very least. Offensively though.... He can still hit the 3, pulling up and off the catch, his handles can get him a straight line drive to get him in the paint, and once he's in there he should have the advantage over most SGs in the league. His strength, power and length could make him a pretty unstoppable matchup for a lot of SGs. If you've got a floor spacing C like Vuc, you could even run post ups for him.

He seems like he could be anything from Crowder to Harris, to Gordon, to Granger.

He seems like he'll be useful, at the very least.

[zaymon]

Harsh. I said it crossed mine mind.
Two old guys for 3 years refusing to do major moves, at job that is probably their last job in their careers.

They refuse to do anything major, that's factual.
Hennigan's last day at a job had this roster:
Vuc, Gordon,Evan, Ross, DJ Augustin
Magic best 5 players, two years later, under new front office is: Vuc, Gordon, Ross,Evan, Dj Augustin.

They lierally only added Isaac as somebody who has any on court value ( and even he is nothing more but limited role player).
Others? Bunch of draft picks that can't or don't play.

Biggest credit i can give to them is Steve Clifford.

One of the angriest and least logical piece you ever wrote pepe :p Of all people i wouldnt expect it from you. Weltman wants to stale and retire and thats why he makes risky huge upside decisions ?
If what you wrote was true he wouldnt draft and force played Bamba last year and he would draft someone like NAW, Clarke this year. It would gave him better chance to make plays every year until Vucevic declains.
He made small changes in the S5 ? He maximised the human potential he inherited. Should he make changes for the worse ?
What we do behind our veteran core ? We develop Fultz, Frazier, Okeke, Isaac, Bamba hmm could it be large core of the future ? Is rehabing and developing so much youth easier or harder than signing veterans ?
Is changing much part of the organization personel easier or harder than retaining everybody ?
If we dont resign Vuc and Ross, next draft suppose to have bunch of creators, not bad timing.
Weltman brought huge weight on his shoulders and i support him.

I don't find it harsh. I was semi - joking , but as i said, i would lie if i didn't thought about it more than once.
I find people as super selfish creatures, i think that people do stuff to benefit them subconsciously, and on their path find a ways how to justfy that actions.

Getting youth that can't play due injuries is stailing process because it's buying time. " See, he is injuried, oh well, we will have to wait".
And keeping same vets around singlas lack of guts to do gusty moves that could backfire and lead to departure.
If i'm GM and i just enjoy money with no moves ,i would do what they do. Draft injuried players and prospects , trade for injuried players, trade away second round picks and never do jack s*** about roster that actually plays night in and night out.

I know that i'm more negative person in general, not just basketball related,but i will not be suprised, and i actually think it will happen- in moment they step down, team will be in idential spot where they were when they took over. Needing another rebuild without any playoff sucess ( other than apperance ) with them, without any star to show for.

Do i think they have "masterplan" how to steal money from stupid franchise? No. I think they know they are doing their last NBA gigs so they take their sweet time while not being in rush to retire.

If what you wrote was true injured players would hold more value than healthy ones " thank god he tore his achilles, now my job is safe for another 3 years". Truth is injured players regularly fall on draft day becouse its more risky and front offices want to keep their job ( opposite of what you wrote). Okeke was on Weltman radar before the injury, he was not the target becouse of injury. Its even crazy to think otherwise. Alexander- Walker wasnt a need for us and he projects as a bench player. Fournier was better than him, Lamb and Ross also and they went higher in their drafts. Okeke has better body and better decensive instincts i am so glad we went with him.

[yoyojw17]

I don't understand why all these Chinese gymnasts are contorting themselves so much over this pick. It was obviously a questionable draft for the Magic at best, especially considering the complete punt in the second round. No one is rooting for Chuma to fail. He is a member of the team now, but let's at least be intellectually honest with ourselves here. An undersized, injured, older tweener two picks outside the lottery is not a good pick. It at least invites criticism, actually begs for it. So, don't come down on us that glaringly see it, just because you don't. There is a difference between being a fan and a sycophant. I'm going to try to move on now, but it is what it is.

There aren't any "Chinese Gymnasts"... there are quite a few that were immediately excited by the pick (including every dang commentator covering the draft... i thought they were gonna rip us a new one like the suns... and then... nope).... then there was a ton of us that weren't familiar and therefore wasn't excited by the pick.... but upon seeing the value of the pick are happy with it. I was part of the latter group.

And upon seeing it... he legitly can play both positions..... so not quite undersized as you may say. He's an older sophomore... ok? But an older sophmore who throughout the season just kept getting better and better and helped show out on the bigger stages. Then he got injured. S*** happens. Garland got injured.... didn't destroy his stock.... why does it have to destroy okeke's. but if the team has the patience and belief that he will recover nicely (just not in time for the draft)... then you still got the lottery potential pick at the 16th. to me that sounds smart in my opinion. SO YES.... my opinion changed because I TOOK the time to educate myself and see why they made that choice.... hence the reason I am genuinely happy with the pick.... and not a sycophant.

[spinedoc]

I don't understand why all these Chinese gymnasts are contorting themselves so much over this pick. It was obviously a questionable draft for the Magic at best, especially considering the complete punt in the second round. No one is rooting for Chuma to fail. He is a member of the team now, but let's at least be intellectually honest with ourselves here. An undersized, injured, older tweener two picks outside the lottery is not a good pick. It at least invites criticism, actually begs for it. So, don't come down on us that glaringly see it, just because you don't. There is a difference between being a fan and a sycophant. I'm going to try to move on now, but it is what it is.

There aren't any "Chinese Gymnasts"... there are quite a few that were immediately excited by the pick (including every dang commentator covering the draft... i thought they were gonna rip us a new one like the suns... and then... nope).... then there was a ton of us that weren't familiar and therefore wasn't excited by the pick.... but upon seeing the value of the pick are happy with it. I was part of the latter group.

And upon seeing it... he legitly can play both positions..... so not quite undersized as you may say. He's an older sophomore... ok? But an older sophmore who throughout the season just kept getting better and better and helped show out on the bigger stages. Then he got injured. S*** happens. Garland got injured.... didn't destroy his stock.... why does it have to destroy okeke's. but if the team has the patience and belief that he will recover nicely (just not in time for the draft)... then you still got the lottery potential pick at the 16th. to me that sounds smart in my opinion. SO YES.... my opinion changed because I TOOK the time to educate myself and see why they made that choice.... hence the reason I am genuinely happy with the pick.... and not a sycophant.

Think about what you wrote. What is the difference between Garland and Okeke? One of them completely locks down a position right?

[IllMagic04]

I will to continue to try and preach patience. WeHam and Clifford deserve a lot of credit for the progress we have made as an organization and I really don’t understand how that can be debatable. We are respected around the league and no longer in the perennial basement. This is their jobs and they haven’t given us any reason to doubt them

ehh, i debate that. the progress made came from Clifford. What key acquisitions have they made for the team that made the playoffs?

So they get no credit for hiring Clifford?? I will argue there biggest asset is what I am preaching patience. They could have traded Vuc for pennies on the dollar like most people including me wanted. Then he went and had best season of his career. Now everyone wants them to dump Fournier coming off his bad season. They are building this slow and methodical. There are no short cuts here. You try to do short cuts you end up with the oladipo and Sabonis for ibaka trade and biyombo contract.

I can still argue that not trading Vuc was a mistake. Had we traded him when I wanted to trade him then we woulda lost more and Trae Young or Luka Doncic would be with us. Thats a very acceptable result. We were never gonna trade him this past season. The time to move him was 2 seasons ago. They get props for the Cliff hire but thats about it

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