Let's Talk About Mario

[LacosteM]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekJGOeL4uHI[/youtube]

[j-ragg]

His supposed elite athleticism did not translate to the NBA game this season. He had trouble finishing lobs and getting in the lane and finishing or getting fouled. That and his handles are the biggest concern. He also makes too many "WTF?" plays that result in bad turnovers, but you'd hope that will change with more experience.

On the plus side, he's a skilled passer and plays a brand of unselfish, winning basketball which is rare on our team.

Agreed. He tries to be a little too unselfish at times (which a lot on our team don't do), but he just needs to get better at making the easy play, not so much the homerun play. I'll never get upset at one of our guys for trying too hard to help the others score.

Also surprised about his athleticism too, I thought he'd be a monster. He's probably above average, more athletic than a Klay type but slightly disappointed in that area. Maybe with an NBA off season under his belt that'll improve.


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[Incognito76]

I don't care about his athleticism it is good enough. If he improves his handle, gets good at finishing at the rim, shoots 3 pointers around 39-41% and improves defense a bit he will be top 8 SF which is good enough for me.

[Von Bismarck]

Also surprised about his athleticism too, I thought he'd be a monster. He's probably above average, more athletic than a Klay type but slightly disappointed in that area. Maybe with an NBA off season under his belt that'll improve.

I have no idea why you thought his athleticism is elite. He's above average for the NBA and elite for European level and that was pretty clear even before the draft.

He's as athletic as a white guy gets for basketball. It's not like we expected second coming of Vince Carter. Or maybe some of us did, eh?

[j-ragg]

Also surprised about his athleticism too, I thought he'd be a monster. He's probably above average, more athletic than a Klay type but slightly disappointed in that area. Maybe with an NBA off season under his belt that'll improve.

I have no idea why you thought his athleticism is elite. He's above average for the NBA and elite for European level and that was pretty clear even before the draft.

He's as athletic as a white guy gets for basketball. It's not like we expected second coming of Vince Carter. Or maybe some of us did, eh?

You have no idea?

Superb athlete. Extremely quick. Explosive. Great size and length. Can play multiple roles and positions.

He's also an effortless athlete who runs the floor exceptionally well, has nice quickness, and can finish plays above the rim, ranking among the most impressive physical specimens we've seen among European prospects in recent memory.

Last Valentine's Day evening, Minnesota Timberwolves rookie Zach LaVine wowed the crowd at Barclays Center and the millions of people watching the Sprite Slam Dunk Contest at home with a series of aerobatic wonders.
The next day, the story goes, Mario Hezonja did every single one of LaVine's dunks during his FC Barcelona team's practice.

I mean there are plenty of guys who's reports said he's a really good athlete. On top of being 6'8 or 6'9, just expected a little more. Didn't expect Aaron Gordon or anything.

[tiderulz]

Also surprised about his athleticism too, I thought he'd be a monster. He's probably above average, more athletic than a Klay type but slightly disappointed in that area. Maybe with an NBA off season under his belt that'll improve.

I have no idea why you thought his athleticism is elite. He's above average for the NBA and elite for European level and that was pretty clear even before the draft.

He's as athletic as a white guy gets for basketball. It's not like we expected second coming of Vince Carter. Or maybe some of us did, eh?

You have no idea?

Superb athlete. Extremely quick. Explosive. Great size and length. Can play multiple roles and positions.

He's also an effortless athlete who runs the floor exceptionally well, has nice quickness, and can finish plays above the rim, ranking among the most impressive physical specimens we've seen among European prospects in recent memory.

Last Valentine's Day evening, Minnesota Timberwolves rookie Zach LaVine wowed the crowd at Barclays Center and the millions of people watching the Sprite Slam Dunk Contest at home with a series of aerobatic wonders.
The next day, the story goes, Mario Hezonja did every single one of LaVine's dunks during his FC Barcelona team's practice.

I mean there are plenty of guys who's reports said he's a really good athlete. On top of being 6'8 or 6'9, just expected a little more. Didn't expect Aaron Gordon or anything.

i think its more an issue of he is still thinking instead of just playing. He will look faster when he moves instinctually instead of having to think about what the right play is

[Von Bismarck]

Text

SB Nation - They got it all right except he's super athlete, he's above average but not superb. He is explosive although it may not seem like that cause of still not good enough handles. He has a great size and length for his position.

DX - They got it all right. They specifically said: ''ranking among the most impressive physical specimens we've seen among European prospects in recent memory''. What's wrong about that?

David Aldridge - His teammates from Barcelona said he did it. Why would they lie?


My point is, Hezonja is indeed a really good athlete but not elite. There's a difference between 'a really good' and 'elite' AFAIK.

[SOUL]

He looks really impressive in those clips (obviously, those are highlights) -- but it shows what sort of scorer he can be with a bit of extra mass, ball handling, and comfort in knowing he can play with these guys.

[Bensational]

It will be interesting to see what kinds of strides Mario can make this summer. I think his athleticism is fine for his game, it's his first step which is slow, and that might be because his handles aren't tight enough?

I'd still like to see him play with Fournier a bit more, because Evan has really found a way to maximise his athleticism, and I think Mario has a potential other gear on top of that. But if he could learn to get to the rim the way Fournier does, it would do wonders for his scoring.

[SOUL]

I'd still like to see him play with Fournier a bit more, because Evan has really found a way to maximise his athleticism, and I think Mario has a potential other gear on top of that. But if he could learn to get to the rim the way Fournier does, it would do wonders for his scoring.

I think he can learn a lot from Fournier, just not on the actual floor. Practice, sure. And Fournier towards the end of the season decided to pass a bit more, but I'm afraid he's always going to have that lag in his brain that makes him pass 2 seconds too late. If he fixes that, he'll be a damn good player.

[Bensational]

I'd still like to see him play with Fournier a bit more, because Evan has really found a way to maximise his athleticism, and I think Mario has a potential other gear on top of that. But if he could learn to get to the rim the way Fournier does, it would do wonders for his scoring.

I think he can learn a lot from Fournier, just not on the actual floor. Practice, sure. And Fournier towards the end of the season decided to pass a bit more, but I'm afraid he's always going to have that lag in his brain that makes him pass 2 seconds too late. If he fixes that, he'll be a damn good player.

Without trying to open a can of worms, you'll notice that Fournier was one of the main culprits who was assisting Hezonja on a lot of those highlights.

If Fournier comes back, I think we'll see a much more team friendly version of him once he's been paid. I don't know why, but I really feel like Fournier is made of championship stuff. He's a Spurs guy. He's a Warriors guy. That's just my opinion though.

[SOUL]

Without trying to open a can of worms, you'll notice that Fournier was one of the main culprits who was assisting Hezonja on a lot of those highlights.

If Fournier comes back, I think we'll see a much more team friendly version of him once he's been paid. I don't know why, but I really feel like Fournier is made of championship stuff. He's a Spurs guy. He's a Warriors guy. That's just my opinion though.

Oh no question, I don't think Fournier is a losing player by any means, I just think he'd rather get his before getting others involved. Which is good and bad.

Also I would take any sort of highlight video with a grain of salt. Much like Mario hasn't looked as good as he did in those clips the entire season, Fournier while playing with Mario didn't look great a lot of the season either. Just simple little things like throwing the ball right back to Payton (which Mario does a lot) or moving it without hesitating (which he also does a lot) helps spacing immensely. When Fournier does something good like draw attention to himself, then pivots, hesitates, and then passes it out.. the open shot that Mario (or whoever had) suddenly turns into a contested jumper just from pausing a second or two too late.

Little things like that don't show up often, but it happened all the damn time. Contrast that to AG and Mario (who while both young) seem to really play off each other well especially in the fastbreak.

[Xatticus]

Without trying to open a can of worms, you'll notice that Fournier was one of the main culprits who was assisting Hezonja on a lot of those highlights.

If Fournier comes back, I think we'll see a much more team friendly version of him once he's been paid. I don't know why, but I really feel like Fournier is made of championship stuff. He's a Spurs guy. He's a Warriors guy. That's just my opinion though.

I don't really have an issue with Fournier's decision-making on the whole. He is refined basketball player that gets the most out of his limited physical abilities. I think the issue is that you don't have to watch him play for very long to see that he worries about his stat line a little too much. When the team is losing a lot of games, this gets irritating to watch.

Regarding Hezonja: Having athleticism and translating that to the court are two different things. You can see that he runs the floor effortlessly and he can leap off of one foot with ease. These are signs of athleticism. He has to figure out how to utilize this athleticism in game situations. His burst appears to be fairly linear, but that isn't a huge problem in basketball. I don't get the criticisms of his foot speed at all. Some folks are seeing something entirely different from me. Athletically, he reminds me a lot of Sarunas Marciulionis.

I also don't get the development that people saw in his defense this year. He was always adequate to good when teams attacked him directly. Fortunately, some teams did go straight at him, but he almost always acquitted himself well. He is far superior to Fournier in this respect. He is dreadful off the ball though. He goes long stretches where he doesn't even glance at his man, letting them float into free spaces unguarded. This unsettles the entire defense as they go into scramble mode to try to compensate. He single-handedly improves the opposition's ball movement.

[Orlwillbeback]

I am a bit surprised at how raw Mario is considering he has euroleague experience and is a year older than most other lottery picks in 2015. With that said, I'm not losing sleep over it considering how Winslow and Johnson have looked.

The only guy we could have taken with the fifth pick who is doing well is Turner, and while his stats are good, he is another soft, jumpshooting big who would not pair well with vucevic.

[Orlwillbeback]

I'd still like to see him play with Fournier a bit more, because Evan has really found a way to maximise his athleticism, and I think Mario has a potential other gear on top of that. But if he could learn to get to the rim the way Fournier does, it would do wonders for his scoring.

I think he can learn a lot from Fournier, just not on the actual floor. Practice, sure. And Fournier towards the end of the season decided to pass a bit more, but I'm afraid he's always going to have that lag in his brain that makes him pass 2 seconds too late. If he fixes that, he'll be a damn good player.

Without trying to open a can of worms, you'll notice that Fournier was one of the main culprits who was assisting Hezonja on a lot of those highlights.

If Fournier comes back, I think we'll see a much more team friendly version of him once he's been paid. I don't know why, but I really feel like Fournier is made of championship stuff. He's a Spurs guy. He's a Warriors guy. That's just my opinion though.

Personally, I think the great teams today are composed entirely of great passers who are also unselfish. Fournier doesn't fit that mold right now imo

[ezzzp]

I think he can learn a lot from Fournier, just not on the actual floor. Practice, sure. And Fournier towards the end of the season decided to pass a bit more, but I'm afraid he's always going to have that lag in his brain that makes him pass 2 seconds too late. If he fixes that, he'll be a damn good player.

Without trying to open a can of worms, you'll notice that Fournier was one of the main culprits who was assisting Hezonja on a lot of those highlights.

If Fournier comes back, I think we'll see a much more team friendly version of him once he's been paid. I don't know why, but I really feel like Fournier is made of championship stuff. He's a Spurs guy. He's a Warriors guy. That's just my opinion though.

Personally, I think the great teams today are composed entirely of great passers who are also unselfish. Fournier doesn't fit that mold right now imo

Magic passing is getting better:

The team’s pace increased from 93.3 to 95.3. And that was a big part of what Scott Skiles wanted to build. He wanted a team that played with pace — both in the number of possessions and the speed at which the team executed its offense. Seeing that increase is a good sign.

But his biggest impact came with the ball and player movement that came with the Magic this year. Orlando saw its distance traveled on offense go up from 8.84 miles per game to 9.50 miles per game, according to NBA.com player tracking stats. They went from one of the most stagnant teams to one of the most active.

And when the Magic offense was working, they were wracking up assists. The Magic went from 282.2 passes per game to 307.8 per game. Again, moving from one of the teams with the fewest passes per game to one of the most.

Orlando Magic Daily: Nylon Calculus Visualizes the Orlando Magic's Offense

...and Fournier is nowhere near the non willing passer you claim:

[Orlwillbeback]

Magic passing is getting better:

The team’s pace increased from 93.3 to 95.3. And that was a big part of what Scott Skiles wanted to build. He wanted a team that played with pace — both in the number of possessions and the speed at which the team executed its offense. Seeing that increase is a good sign.

But his biggest impact came with the ball and player movement that came with the Magic this year. Orlando saw its distance traveled on offense go up from 8.84 miles per game to 9.50 miles per game, according to NBA.com player tracking stats. They went from one of the most stagnant teams to one of the most active.

And when the Magic offense was working, they were wracking up assists. The Magic went from 282.2 passes per game to 307.8 per game. Again, moving from one of the teams with the fewest passes per game to one of the most.

Orlando Magic Daily: Nylon Calculus Visualizes the Orlando Magic's Offense

...and Fournier is nowhere near the non willing passer you claim:

So we're using raw stats now and not even that, but total stats? I can't say for sure but I'm pretty sure I've seen you criticize others for the same thing, citing that new age analytics are the way to go. In any case I will go ahead and play the populist card and say "i've seen Fournier hesitate before making a pass"

[ezzzp]

So we're using raw stats now and not even that, but total stats? I can't say for sure but I'm pretty sure I've seen you criticize others for the same thing, citing that new age analytics are the way to go. In any case I will go ahead and play the populist card and say "i've seen Fournier hesitate before making a pass"

haha...I do prefer advanced stats and %'s, but I really don't have anything against raw or total stats.

I see a lot of young players hesitate before passing...its part of development process. Some players have natural or well developed passing instincts and some have to really work at it.

Fournier only has average passing instincts. I think turnovers could be a bigger problem with him if he gets too loose with his passing. I tend to think he's been made aware of that and its him thinking through wether its a good pass or a risky pass - or a pass to a bad shot vs taking the higher % shot.

[BadMofoPimp]

So we're using raw stats now and not even that, but total stats? I can't say for sure but I'm pretty sure I've seen you criticize others for the same thing, citing that new age analytics are the way to go. In any case I will go ahead and play the populist card and say "i've seen Fournier hesitate before making a pass"

haha...I do prefer advanced stats and %'s, but I really don't have anything against raw or total stats.

I see a lot of young players hesitate before passing...its part of development process. Some players have natural or well developed passing instincts and some have to really work at it.

Fournier only has average passing instincts. I think turnovers could be a bigger problem with him if he gets too loose with his passing. I tend to think he's been made aware of that and its him thinking through wether its a good pass or a risky pass - or a pass to a bad shot vs taking the higher % shot.

I really like Fournier and think he will be a solid NBA player for years and gels well with Oladipo and Vooch. But, I did notice many times in games that he and sometimes Vooch completely ignore Mario on offense whereas Oladipo and Elf use Mario more. Don't know if it is a Regional thing from their backgrounds in Europe or not, but it makes you wonder if they will work through it if they are all given contracts and play here together the next 4 years.

[Incognito76]

Fornier is black hole on offense a lot of times and it is really easy to see. If Magic are to become a winning team with Fornier he has either to become best offensive player in NBA or learn to play team ball.