2024-2025 Preseason Game 1: Orlando Magic (0-0) at New Orleans Pelicans (0-0) - 1:30pm

[VFX]

I feel like KCP is a guy many fans can’t wait to hate if he starts to struggle.

I can already see the “he’s just getting cardio!” takes coming.

This dude is just not gonna get very many shot attempts.

And if you only get five shots in a game, the difference between a bad game and a good game is literally one made shot.

If this is the case, then why was he a better fit than a legitimate point guard?

You kinda answered why he isn’t a huge difference maker.

[magicfan217]

I feel like KCP is a guy many fans can’t wait to hate if he starts to struggle.

I can already see the “he’s just getting cardio!” takes coming.

This dude is just not gonna get very many shot attempts.

And if you only get five shots in a game, the difference between a bad game and a good game is literally one made shot.

If this is the case, then why was he a better fit than a legitimate point guard?

You kinda answered why he isn’t a huge difference maker.

What legit PG in free agency did we miss out on?

[Rainwater]

I feel like KCP is a guy many fans can’t wait to hate if he starts to struggle.

You forgot we still have Cole in this team?

There could be more than one. WCJ, Harris, and Cole are the other three.

[VFX]

I can already see the “he’s just getting cardio!” takes coming.

This dude is just not gonna get very many shot attempts.

And if you only get five shots in a game, the difference between a bad game and a good game is literally one made shot.

If this is the case, then why was he a better fit than a legitimate point guard?

You kinda answered why he isn’t a huge difference maker.

What legit PG in free agency did we miss out on?

Trades also exist.

[magicfan217]

If this is the case, then why was he a better fit than a legitimate point guard?

You kinda answered why he isn’t a huge difference maker.

What legit PG in free agency did we miss out on?

Trades also exist.

And still can. Signing KCP actually better positions us to make a deal for a PG if that's what we want to do.

[VFX]

What legit PG in free agency did we miss out on?

Trades also exist.

And still can. Signing KCP actually better positions us to make a deal for a PG if that's what we want to do.

Explain.

[magicfan217]

Trades also exist.

And still can. Signing KCP actually better positions us to make a deal for a PG if that's what we want to do.

Explain.

If we are making a deal for a star PG then Suggs becomes the guy we most likely have to deal. KCP is a natural replacement.

There's no world where we get a difference maker and don't deal Suggs or Franz...nobody else on our roster holds enough value at this point. Not to mention the salary implications of carrying Suggs, Franz, PB and then another Max or near max guy...it just won't work. KCP allows us some flexibility.

Saying that, I do think option 1 is that Suggs/KCP combo works and we just pay Suggs and roll with what we have. But we have some time to see that play out first.

[Knightro]

If this is the case, then why was he a better fit than a legitimate point guard?

You kinda answered why he isn’t a huge difference maker.

I think he's a good role player and will fill the Gary role from last year at a higher level.

I also don't think his addition kept them from doing anything on the point front either.

I just think Weltman and the front office, right or wrong, believes in their core three guys (Paolo, Franz, Suggs) as their primary facilitators moving forward.

[VFX]

And still can. Signing KCP actually better positions us to make a deal for a PG if that's what we want to do.

Explain.

If we are making a deal for a star PG then Suggs becomes the guy we most likely have to deal. KCP is a natural replacement.

There's no world where we get a difference maker and don't deal Suggs or Franz...nobody else on our roster holds enough value at this point. Not to mention the salary implications of carrying Suggs, Franz, PB and then another Max or near max guy...it just won't work. KCP allows us some flexibility.

Saying that, I do think option 1 is that Suggs/KCP combo works and we just pay Suggs and roll with what we have. But we have some time to see that play out first.

Suggs or Franz aren’t getting dealt.

Gary Harris, Carter, picks, and trash are the targets to move. Why would they develop Suggs into an all defense guard just to pair him with a worse version before trading him? Makes no sense.

Suggs/KCP combo will be just as bad as Suggs/Gary. 22nd ranked offense, turnovers, and limited assist numbers.

You don’t need an allstar point guard to “fix” the offense. You just need one that is competent and can stretch the floor.

[richi_v25]

I feel like KCP is a guy many fans can’t wait to hate if he starts to struggle.

You forgot we still have Cole in this team?

I'd throw Gary "street clothes" Harris in that mix. Can't wait to see what ugly outfits he wears this year... all that money yet dresses like an actual bum.

[VFX]

If this is the case, then why was he a better fit than a legitimate point guard?

You kinda answered why he isn’t a huge difference maker.

I think he's a good role player and will fill the Gary role from last year at a higher level.

I also don't think his addition kept them from doing anything on the point front either.

I just think Weltman and the front office, right or wrong, believes in their core three guys (Paolo, Franz, Suggs) as their primary facilitators moving forward.

Then they are wrong.

And people early last season knew it wouldn’t work. They just can’t admit it.

[magicfan217]

Explain.

If we are making a deal for a star PG then Suggs becomes the guy we most likely have to deal. KCP is a natural replacement.

There's no world where we get a difference maker and don't deal Suggs or Franz...nobody else on our roster holds enough value at this point. Not to mention the salary implications of carrying Suggs, Franz, PB and then another Max or near max guy...it just won't work. KCP allows us some flexibility.

Saying that, I do think option 1 is that Suggs/KCP combo works and we just pay Suggs and roll with what we have. But we have some time to see that play out first.

Suggs or Franz aren’t getting dealt.

Gary Harris, Carter, picks, and trash are the targets to move. Why would they develop Suggs into an all defense guard just to pair him with a worse version before trading him? Makes no sense.

Suggs/KCP combo will be just as bad as Suggs/Gary. 22nd ranked offense, turnovers, and limited assist numbers.

You don’t need an allstar point guard to “fix” the offense. You just need one that is competent and can stretch the floor.

If Suggs or Franz isn't dealt then we have our big 3. Suggs is going to be a near max contract.

My point in all of this is that there wasn't anyone available this summer who "fit" better than KCP. If that person becomes available then having KCP allows us more options moving forward.

[VFX]

If we are making a deal for a star PG then Suggs becomes the guy we most likely have to deal. KCP is a natural replacement.

There's no world where we get a difference maker and don't deal Suggs or Franz...nobody else on our roster holds enough value at this point. Not to mention the salary implications of carrying Suggs, Franz, PB and then another Max or near max guy...it just won't work. KCP allows us some flexibility.

Saying that, I do think option 1 is that Suggs/KCP combo works and we just pay Suggs and roll with what we have. But we have some time to see that play out first.

Suggs or Franz aren’t getting dealt.

Gary Harris, Carter, picks, and trash are the targets to move. Why would they develop Suggs into an all defense guard just to pair him with a worse version before trading him? Makes no sense.

Suggs/KCP combo will be just as bad as Suggs/Gary. 22nd ranked offense, turnovers, and limited assist numbers.

You don’t need an allstar point guard to “fix” the offense. You just need one that is competent and can stretch the floor.

If Suggs or Franz isn't dealt then we have our big 3. Suggs is going to be a near max contract.

My point in all of this is that there wasn't anyone available this summer who "fit" better than KCP. If that person becomes available then having KCP allows us more options moving forward.

Literally not spending the money and doing exactly what they did last season with Gary Harris. It’s basically the same player anyway without spending $23m and they still re-signed Harris. It changed nothing about how the team played in the post season.

So no, not really.

[Knightro]

Then they are wrong.

And people early last season knew it wouldn’t work. They just can’t admit it.

I guess I'd ask what does the word "work" mean to you in this case?

Because they'd tell you they improved from 34 to 47 wins.

And while their improvements offensively overall were somewhat marginal (26th to 22nd), I think they'd drill down and tell you their primary starting lineup (Suggs, Harris, Franz, Paolo, WCJ) played to the equivalent of the 16th best offense and they expect that to continue to improve and get better as Paolo, Franz and Suggs all improve and get better, plus the fact they marginally improved that unit as well with KCP at the very least being a healthier version of Harris.

[VFX]

Then they are wrong.

And people early last season knew it wouldn’t work. They just can’t admit it.

I guess I'd ask what does the word "work" mean to you in this case?

Because they'd tell you the improved from 34 to 47 wins.

And while their improvements offensively overall were somewhat marginal (26th to 22nd), I think they'd drill down and tell you their primary starting lineup (Suggs, Harris, Franz, Paolo, WCJ) played to the equivalent of the 16th best offense and they expect that to continue to improve and get better as Paolo, Franz and Suggs all improve and get better, plus the fact they marginally improved that unit as well with KCP at the very least being a healthier version of Harris.

You kind of answered your question for me.

26th to 22nd. With wins being carried primarily from the defense and health. I’ve kinda talked about this since the beginning of last season and previous offseason. It was never about individual players developing internally. It was about the system being run on offense due mostly to personnel decisions based on skill sets.

People, and maybe the FO, aren’t being realistic when they think internal development from players means they acquire never seen before skill sets to make sense of a roster, on paper, that doesn’t. It’s just wishful thinking and homerism believing otherwise.

Are they running a x2 3&D back court because that’s their only option? Are they doing it because they think it’s the best strategy? Or is the new cope the idea that there is some master 5-D chess being played with trades from a FO that doesn’t trade anyone?

I was critical of the back court in the post season before acquiring KCP. After doing it? More critical from doubling down. Then I read all offseason about how Orlando’s FO hit a home run upgrading Gary Harris to Gary Harris +. Nah. They solved nothing as expected.

[magicfan217]

Suggs or Franz aren’t getting dealt.

Gary Harris, Carter, picks, and trash are the targets to move. Why would they develop Suggs into an all defense guard just to pair him with a worse version before trading him? Makes no sense.

Suggs/KCP combo will be just as bad as Suggs/Gary. 22nd ranked offense, turnovers, and limited assist numbers.

You don’t need an allstar point guard to “fix” the offense. You just need one that is competent and can stretch the floor.

If Suggs or Franz isn't dealt then we have our big 3. Suggs is going to be a near max contract.

My point in all of this is that there wasn't anyone available this summer who "fit" better than KCP. If that person becomes available then having KCP allows us more options moving forward.

Literally not spending the money and doing exactly what they did last season with Gary Harris. It’s basically the same player anyway without spending $23m and they still re-signed Harris. It changed nothing about how the team played in the post season.

So no, not really.

KCP is a considerably better version of what Gary Harris is.

Also, saving the money this summer wouldn't have done anything. The cap space wasn't going to be there after this year anyway.

At the bare minimum you added another quality player on a very attractive contract.

[eyriq]

Then they are wrong.

And people early last season knew it wouldn’t work. They just can’t admit it.

I guess I'd ask what does the word "work" mean to you in this case?

Because they'd tell you the improved from 34 to 47 wins.

And while their improvements offensively overall were somewhat marginal (26th to 22nd), I think they'd drill down and tell you their primary starting lineup (Suggs, Harris, Franz, Paolo, WCJ) played to the equivalent of the 16th best offense and they expect that to continue to improve and get better as Paolo, Franz and Suggs all improve and get better, plus the fact they marginally improved that unit as well with KCP at the very least being a healthier version of Harris.

You kind of answered your question for me.

26th to 22nd. With wins being carried primarily from the defense and health. I’ve kinda talked about this since the beginning of last season and previous offseason. It was never about individual players developing internally. It was about the system being run on offense due mostly to personnel decisions based on skill sets.

People, and maybe the FO, aren’t being realistic when they think internal development from players means they acquire never seen before skill sets to make sense of a roster, on paper, that doesn’t. It’s just wishful thinking and homerism believing otherwise.

Are they running a x2 3&D back court because that’s their only option? Are they doing it because they think it’s the best strategy? Or is the new cope the idea that there is some master 5-D chess being played with trades from a FO that doesn’t trade anyone?

I was critical of the back court in the post season before acquiring KCP. After doing it? More critical from doubling down. Then I read all offseason about how Orlando’s FO hit a home run upgrading Gary Harris to Gary Harris +. Nah. They solved nothing as expected.

You are literally staring into the face of historically strong player devolvement tailwinds and screaming that it isn't enough. Funny thing is you are ridiculing others for not joining you or seeing your grand vision. Just embrace the historically great effect we're getting from player development and ride it out.

[VFX]

I guess I'd ask what does the word "work" mean to you in this case?

Because they'd tell you the improved from 34 to 47 wins.

And while their improvements offensively overall were somewhat marginal (26th to 22nd), I think they'd drill down and tell you their primary starting lineup (Suggs, Harris, Franz, Paolo, WCJ) played to the equivalent of the 16th best offense and they expect that to continue to improve and get better as Paolo, Franz and Suggs all improve and get better, plus the fact they marginally improved that unit as well with KCP at the very least being a healthier version of Harris.

You kind of answered your question for me.

26th to 22nd. With wins being carried primarily from the defense and health. I’ve kinda talked about this since the beginning of last season and previous offseason. It was never about individual players developing internally. It was about the system being run on offense due mostly to personnel decisions based on skill sets.

People, and maybe the FO, aren’t being realistic when they think internal development from players means they acquire never seen before skill sets to make sense of a roster, on paper, that doesn’t. It’s just wishful thinking and homerism believing otherwise.

Are they running a x2 3&D back court because that’s their only option? Are they doing it because they think it’s the best strategy? Or is the new cope the idea that there is some master 5-D chess being played with trades from a FO that doesn’t trade anyone?

I was critical of the back court in the post season before acquiring KCP. After doing it? More critical from doubling down. Then I read all offseason about how Orlando’s FO hit a home run upgrading Gary Harris to Gary Harris +. Nah. They solved nothing as expected.

You are literally staring into the face of historically strong player devolvement tailwinds and screaming that it isn't enough. Funny thing is you are ridiculing others for not joining you or seeing your grand vision. Just embrace the historically great effect we're getting from player development and ride it out.

Not really.

Player development has been great. That's not really the issue. It just doesnt solve the back court despite how much people want to believe it does. Anthony Black becoming the starting point guard is the only thing they could realistically hope for to solve it. However, they still spent $23m on KCP and re-signed Gary Harris.

[Knightro]

Right or wrong - and the first preseason game didn't inspire a ton of confidence - it seems like they're willing to let Suggs take some lumps as a shot creator for others in the halfcourt this season.

I suspect that isn't going to last very long, and IMO he's clearly more suited to the role he played last year as a point of attack defender and catch-and-shoot guy, but they seem committed to giving him PG reps for now.

[zaymon]

Our front office seems to embrace the strategy of allowing to fail and coming stronger from those failures. We still have time to stroke our players ego, but its coming to end soon. I believe Suggs will choose team over his own ambitions if this experiment fails once again.