Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[YosemiteSam]

Trading Vuc for Ball is one of the best realistic deals we can hope for

Realistic? That seems like a tough sell for LA. Their #2 pick from last year for an expiring big who is comparable to Brook Lopez that they just let walk away for the minimum.

The Lonzo talk over the summer only made sense for LA if they attached Deng and sent them over for our expirings.

Fwiw I don’t even really want Lonzo but cmon with some of these ideas lol.

I agree. Only way something like this happens is Lavar starts causing issues and Lebron says “get him outta here for vets”. I don’t find that likely and I feel we’d have significant competition from Phoenix and San Antonio for Ball regardless

[fendilim]

Steph 51 in 3quaters.
This is healthiest, fastest and best Curry i saw since that out of this world 2016 season.

What do you think about Trae though?

[pepe1991]

Steph 51 in 3quaters.
This is healthiest, fastest and best Curry i saw since that out of this world 2016 season.

What do you think about Trae though?

That Taurean Prince is better than most people thought

Let them play 15-20 games to see how things roll.
Young still needs countless number of shots and already is black hole on defense.

[PennytoShaq]

I've grappled with this notion that Bamba and Isaac aren't physically ready to take on the toll of a 36 minute nights in an 82 game season. I don't really buy that they aren't physically ready to play major NBA minutes. I haven't found any evidence that predisposes either of them to injury based on their current physical profile. I'm more than open to any data that anyone can find to support this. Sure, Bamba can't bang with Joel Embiid for 36 minutes, but he's not the most thin rookie to ever play the position or the most physically disadvantaged player to play big minutes as a rookie.

It's sort of a crutch that the Magic are using, but there are players who have had less physical advantages who have played rookie seasons without completely breaking down. Especially Isaac who looks physically like the most imposing player on the team right now; I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be playing 30+ minutes a night. The Hawks clearly aren't worried about playing their 6'2", 180 lbs rookie 35 mpg.

Anthony Davis played almost 30 mpg as a rookie at about 222 lbs. Nerlens Noel started 71 out of 75 games and averaged 31 mpg at 206 lbs. Brandon Ingram played almost 30 mpg as a rookie at 190 lbs. These players got those minutes because they were the best at their respective positions on their teams.

If you're proposing that Bamba doesn't have the conditioning to maintain his level play that is advantageous for the team, then that's one thing. I'm not sure that should apply to Isaac who has added weight and spent a full off-season working out and building his strength.

I understand where the Magic are coming from with Bamba. I don't feel really strong about how they're bringing Bamba along. It's fine since the team is trying to win games (and we can debate the merits of that for eternity) with Vucevic, who currently provides the team the best chance at that.

But what happens when they trade Vucevic? Do they hold to their philosophy and start Khem Birch and continue Bamba on his minutes regimen until he's more physically ready? I highly doubt it.

I just don't buy that they're protecting him as a reason for his current minute regimen. The real reason that Bamba isn't starting isn't so much about his weight and more about Vucevic being on the team and being the best offensive player on the team. Trae Young is starting and playing major minutes despite being at a greater physical disadvantage because he's already one of the best offensive players on his team. It's why Young would start here in Orlando. Mo Bamba takes all of those minutes the moment Vucevic is dealt and the training wheels will come off, without any regard for his weight or conditioning.

this is true in a sense. But i see this more of indirectly increasing Vuc’ trade value by deflecting the attention to other players. Because this is an indirect reason as to why we are still playing Vuc his regular minutes.

Also, when we trade Vuc, Bamba will likely start. Thats why Weltman said they want Isaac to be healthy LATE in the season. Doesnt that mean after the deadline. If you look at the rotations, Bamba actually subs out Isaac most of the time, not Vuc.

I would have to argue though aboug Nerlens. He played only after he redshirted his rookie year. Meaning he had enough time to build his body while he was a redshirt. Also, Anthony Davis looks more physicality built as a rookie than Bamba and Isaac.

Also, this entire board criticized the prior Magic’s training team non stop because of guys getting hurt. Now we we have an entirely new staff and they are already getting called out by a decent amount of people for working to prevent injury to key players. It’s kind of funny to me.

[Catledge]

I doubt very much that Bamba would have the legs to play more than 25 minutes regardless of any other factors. Swami's evidence regarding minutes played by other prominent young players is persuasive, but more persuasive is how visibly tired Bamba has been four minutes into any shift.

As to Isaac, I'd like to see more minutes and a slightly bigger role on offense, but I'm content to see what happens over these next 20 games before I get too upset about anything. I'm a pretty big believer in learning to crawl before you try to walk.

[Def Swami]

I've grappled with this notion that Bamba and Isaac aren't physically ready to take on the toll of a 36 minute nights in an 82 game season. I don't really buy that they aren't physically ready to play major NBA minutes. I haven't found any evidence that predisposes either of them to injury based on their current physical profile. I'm more than open to any data that anyone can find to support this. Sure, Bamba can't bang with Joel Embiid for 36 minutes, but he's not the most thin rookie to ever play the position or the most physically disadvantaged player to play big minutes as a rookie.

It's sort of a crutch that the Magic are using, but there are players who have had less physical advantages who have played rookie seasons without completely breaking down. Especially Isaac who looks physically like the most imposing player on the team right now; I don't see any reason why he shouldn't be playing 30+ minutes a night. The Hawks clearly aren't worried about playing their 6'2", 180 lbs rookie 35 mpg.

Anthony Davis played almost 30 mpg as a rookie at about 222 lbs. Nerlens Noel started 71 out of 75 games and averaged 31 mpg at 206 lbs. Brandon Ingram played almost 30 mpg as a rookie at 190 lbs. These players got those minutes because they were the best at their respective positions on their teams.

If you're proposing that Bamba doesn't have the conditioning to maintain his level play that is advantageous for the team, then that's one thing. I'm not sure that should apply to Isaac who has added weight and spent a full off-season working out and building his strength.

I understand where the Magic are coming from with Bamba. I don't feel really strong about how they're bringing Bamba along. It's fine since the team is trying to win games (and we can debate the merits of that for eternity) with Vucevic, who currently provides the team the best chance at that.

But what happens when they trade Vucevic? Do they hold to their philosophy and start Khem Birch and continue Bamba on his minutes regimen until he's more physically ready? I highly doubt it.

I just don't buy that they're protecting him as a reason for his current minute regimen. The real reason that Bamba isn't starting isn't so much about his weight and more about Vucevic being on the team and being the best offensive player on the team. Trae Young is starting and playing major minutes despite being at a greater physical disadvantage because he's already one of the best offensive players on his team. It's why Young would start here in Orlando. Mo Bamba takes all of those minutes the moment Vucevic is dealt and the training wheels will come off, without any regard for his weight or conditioning.

this is true in a sense. But i see this more of indirectly increasing Vuc’ trade value by deflecting the attention to other players. Because this is an indirect reason as to why we are still playing Vuc his regular minutes.

Also, when we trade Vuc, Bamba will likely start. Thats why Weltman said they want Isaac to be healthy LATE in the season. Doesnt that mean after the deadline. If you look at the rotations, Bamba actually subs out Isaac most of the time, not Vuc.

I would have to argue though aboug Nerlens. He played only after he redshirted his rookie year. Meaning he had enough time to build his body while he was a redshirt. Also, Anthony Davis looks more physicality built as a rookie than Bamba and Isaac.

Also, this entire board criticized the prior Magic’s training team non stop because of guys getting hurt. Now we we have an entirely new staff and they are already getting called out by a decent amount of people for working to prevent injury to key players. It’s kind of funny to me.

At least from my perspective, it's not a criticism of the method, but more so the logic.

[Def Swami]

I doubt very much that Bamba would have the legs to play more than 25 minutes regardless of any other factors. Swami's evidence regarding minutes played by other prominent young players is persuasive, but more persuasive is how visibly tired Bamba has been four minutes into any shift.

As to Isaac, I'd like to see more minutes and a slightly bigger role on offense, but I'm content to see what happens over these next 20 games before I get too upset about anything. I'm a pretty big believer in learning to crawl before you try to walk.

The conditioning is definitely one thing. And there is hard data that supports fatigue places players at increased risk for injury. And I think coming at it from that perspective makes a lot of sense for Bamba, but much less so for someone like Isaac. But I wouldn't consider his BMI as an injury risk. Like I've said, there are other players with similar profiles who have played more minutes and games without debilitating injuries. Restricting Bamba's minutes because he doesn't have the endurance is more sound logic than using his lack of weight/strength as a reason.

[EAS Law]

I think that we finally have a watchable product and a core to watch and we should be thankful for that rather than pick apart every flaw of a roster that we all could agree is not currently built for an NBA championship. Playoffs or even just growth would be a huge win for us this year.

[PennytoShaq]

The NBA is so physical at the 4 and 5 spots still to this day. Tons of contact are things that can beat up undersized players over the course of a season. That is the logic there, and it is sound logic.

I feel like everyone knew JI and Bamba were 2 year investments when drafted due to this. It was stated by the announcers when both players were drafted as well. You can’t complain that Isaac is made of glass and then complain that he plays limited minutes.

Comparing a small PG to an undersized C is not really proving anything. Totally different game between those positions.

[magicman112]

The NBA is so physical at the 4 and 5 spots still to this day. Tons of contact are things that can beat up undersized players over the course of a season. That is the logic there, and it is sound logic.

I feel like everyone knew JI and Bamba were 2 year investments when drafted due to this. It was stated by the announcers when both players were drafted as well. You can’t complain that Isaac is made of glass and then complain that he plays limited minutes.

Comparing a small PG to an undersized C is not really proving anything. Totally different game between those positions.

Yes, both of those guys were drafted on their potential not their NBA readiness.

[Furinkazan]

I think that we finally have a watchable product and a core to watch and we should be thankful for that rather than pick apart every flaw of a roster that we all could agree is not currently built for an NBA championship. Playoffs or even just growth would be a huge win for us this year.

Too early to bitch and too early to say its watchable product.
Last year we had a watchable product 15 games into the season and we all know how it ended.
We will se when will they get tired and how they react.

[Skin]

I think that we finally have a watchable product and a core to watch and we should be thankful for that rather than pick apart every flaw of a roster that we all could agree is not currently built for an NBA championship. Playoffs or even just growth would be a huge win for us this year.

Too early to bitch and too early to say its watchable product.
Last year we had a watchable product 15 games into the season and we all know how it ended.
We will se when will they get tired and how they react.

More than the Wins, I'm excited by the good games that we've had here and there between Gordon, Isaac and Bamba. Once they all get going, that will be fun.

[Def Swami]

The NBA is so physical at the 4 and 5 spots still to this day. Tons of contact are things that can beat up undersized players over the course of a season. That is the logic there, and it is sound logic.

I feel like everyone knew JI and Bamba were 2 year investments when drafted due to this. It was stated by the announcers when both players were drafted as well. You can’t complain that Isaac is made of glass and then complain that he plays limited minutes.

Comparing a small PG to an undersized C is not really proving anything. Totally different game between those positions.

Even at the 4 and 5, there have been physically similar players play more minutes and games and sustain fine. My point is that neither Isaac nor Bamba are made of glass; they aren't these physically disadvantaged players that need special attention that similar players haven't received in the past.

Again, not knocking the strategy. Just the idea that it's necessary based on their weight. I just don't recall other players of similar ilk being treated like that for this reason. I've listed a few examples and still can't recall many players with similar physical profiles who have been limited in the past. KG averaged 29 mpg as a rookie at 217 lbs. Chris Bosh started 66/77 games and averaged 33 mpg as a rookie at 210 lbs. KD averaged 35 mpg and started 80/80 games at 215 lbs. There are other examples.

Power to the training and coaching staff for doing what they deem as viable. But I doubt Clifford is going to adhere to limiting Bamba and/or Isaac's minutes based on "weight" if they're consistently producing on the floor. That's my sole point.

[OrlandO]

I doubt very much that Bamba would have the legs to play more than 25 minutes regardless of any other factors. Swami's evidence regarding minutes played by other prominent young players is persuasive, but more persuasive is how visibly tired Bamba has been four minutes into any shift.

As to Isaac, I'd like to see more minutes and a slightly bigger role on offense, but I'm content to see what happens over these next 20 games before I get too upset about anything. I'm a pretty big believer in learning to crawl before you try to walk.

The conditioning is definitely one thing. And there is hard data that supports fatigue places players at increased risk for injury. And I think coming at it from that perspective makes a lot of sense for Bamba, but much less so for someone like Isaac. But I wouldn't consider his BMI as an injury risk. Like I've said, there are other players with similar profiles who have played more minutes and games without debilitating injuries. Restricting Bamba's minutes because he doesn't have the endurance is more sound logic than using his lack of weight/strength as a reason.

Isaac missed nearly the entire season over a couple ankle sprains. The magic are probably still concerned about the durability of his ankles, so limiting him to prevent fatigue and increased risk for injury is a factor for him as well. Doesn't he also have to deal with asthma? Anyway, I don't think it's something that will last long unless he starts experiencing soreness or something.

[Knightro]

I don't think there's any medical reasons as to why Isaac and Bamba aren't playing as much as some would like. They're both playing about as much as they should be right now given the circumstances.

Bamba is behind a veteran in his 8th season who happens to be playing really well. Even with that he's still playing 19 minutes a night.

Isaac has started every game so far and doesn't look like he's going to be taken out of the SL any time soon. He got into foul trouble both of the first two games which limited his minutes, but the last two games he's played about 28 minutes a night.

28 minutes a night is right in line with Fournier and trailing only Gordon and Vuc.

[fklt]

I seriously will never understand the logic behind not trading away vuc and thus keeping us competitive, but not signing one ok level point guard and thus setting us up for failure. eventually, succeeding in neither.

only visible consistency in this management is their dedication to bring every long arm in the world to orlando.

[OrlandO]

Prediction: Brooklyn renounces Russell's rights, allowing him to hit unrestricted free agency. Russell signs a three-year (team option on the third year), $42 million contract with the Orlando Magic.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2802061-predicting-contracts-landing-spots-for-top-2019-restricted-free-agents

[PennytoShaq]

Prediction: Brooklyn renounces Russell's rights, allowing him to hit unrestricted free agency. Russell signs a three-year (team option on the third year), $42 million contract with the Orlando Magic.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2802061-predicting-contracts-landing-spots-for-top-2019-restricted-free-agents

I called this in the spring. Still don't think it would be the worst thing in the world for us. I like his game with Bamba and Isaac.

If we end up tanking as I expect and get a wing, we will be well positioned to turn it around after this season.

[bargnanimvp]

Prediction: Brooklyn renounces Russell's rights, allowing him to hit unrestricted free agency. Russell signs a three-year (team option on the third year), $42 million contract with the Orlando Magic.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2802061-predicting-contracts-landing-spots-for-top-2019-restricted-free-agents

I'd rather that than trading assets for lonzo

[EAS Law]

I think that we finally have a watchable product and a core to watch and we should be thankful for that rather than pick apart every flaw of a roster that we all could agree is not currently built for an NBA championship. Playoffs or even just growth would be a huge win for us this year.

Too early to bitch and too early to say its watchable product.
Last year we had a watchable product 15 games into the season and we all know how it ended.
We will se when will they get tired and how they react.

Last year, we had a team that started the season shooting at an unsustainable percentage. This season we are playing defense and finishing games that we are in positions to win down the stretch