Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

[Knightro]

Magic pick if in lotto
1. Cade Cunningham
2. Jalen Suggs
3. Jalen Green
4. Jonathan Kuminga

Magic pick if not in lotto and Bulls pick
1. Unexpected faller from list above + Mobley
2. Scottie Barnes
3. Alperen Şengün
4. Franz Wagner
5. Moses Moody
6. Josh Giddey
7. Jaden Springer

[Bensational]

I think Barnes will be my late riser (outside of the top 3), the way Vassell was for me last year. The more I watch him, the more I see someone who likely won't be an offensive star, but he could still be an elite impact guy. That perimeter defense makes me drool. The handles and passing for his size are unique. And his energy - could you image how much guys like Barnes, Cole and RJ would feed off each other?


Bamba/WCJ
Isaac/Chuma
Barnes/Harris
Ross/RJ
Cole/Fultz


That starting lineup could be surprisingly effective if the other 4 can hit the 3 reliably enough. The defense would be top tier at least.

[Bensational]

Has anyone discussed Ayo Dosunmu yet? Not to duplicate discussion, just forgot if his name had been mentioned before. I hadn't gotten to watching footage on him until recently.

Watch on YouTube

6'5 lead guard

20ppg on 15fgas
39% from 3 on 2.9 attempts
5ftas at 78%
6.3rpg
5apg / 3.3tov

That's a lead scorer right there, and he's projected to go late lottery. Yes he's older (21), but he's used the time to make improvements we can see rather than hoping other 18 year olds will make in the future, like Keon Johnson.

This is my guy for our 2nd pick if we get one. If we don't, and we fall outside of the top 3, I'd trade down and try to find a way to add another pick or future pick whilst getting Ayo.

[yoyojw17]

I would be happy with a Barnes/Kuminga and Ziaire Williams/wagner draft result. Adds a tons of size and athleticism to the wings position... and massive potential.

[zaymon]

I think we need to draft one of Cunningham, Barnes or Giddey. Its very hard to win without great passing and decision making.

[Skin]

Has anyone discussed Ayo Dosunmu yet? Not to duplicate discussion, just forgot if his name had been mentioned before. I hadn't gotten to watching footage on him until recently.

Watch on YouTube

6'5 lead guard

20ppg on 15fgas
39% from 3 on 2.9 attempts
5ftas at 78%
6.3rpg
5apg / 3.3tov

That's a lead scorer right there, and he's projected to go late lottery. Yes he's older (21), but he's used the time to make improvements we can see rather than hoping other 18 year olds will make in the future, like Keon Johnson.

This is my guy for our 2nd pick if we get one. If we don't, and we fall outside of the top 3, I'd trade down and try to find a way to add another pick or future pick whilst getting Ayo.

Had him in my Top 10 a month ago. #9. Probably feel the same way about him now.

[Knightro]

Really interesting article from about two weeks ago on ESPN+ from Mike Schmitz about Alperen Şengün. It's behind their paywall so I won't share everything, but a few very interesting bits caught my eye.

-Şengün studies tape of and tries to emulate Jokic.
-A year ago Şengün weighed 268. After overhauling his diet and training routine during the COVID shutdown, he lost 25 lbs, gained valuable explosiveness and has absolutely destroyed everyone and everything in his path this year weighing in the low to mid 240s.
-No 18 year old in THE HISTORY OF EUROPEAN BASKETBALL has averaged 19 PTS, 9 REB and 2 AST over the course of a season until Şengün.

https://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/31337556/2021-nba-draft-alperen-sengun-scouts-vowing-repeat-their-nikola-jokic-mistake ($)

[basketballRob]

I've also heard Sengun has no perimeter defensive skill at all. Maybe he could learn that, maybe not. With Covid this year, scouts weren't allowed to go to Europe, so it may be harder to get a good evaluation of him.

We had another center here who had no perimeter defense and he became an allstar.

If you look at Kanter's per 36 mpg numbers, he's been pretty dominant since 19.


https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/k/kanteen01.html

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[Bensational]

Has anyone discussed Ayo Dosunmu yet? Not to duplicate discussion, just forgot if his name had been mentioned before. I hadn't gotten to watching footage on him until recently.

Watch on YouTube

6'5 lead guard

20ppg on 15fgas
39% from 3 on 2.9 attempts
5ftas at 78%
6.3rpg
5apg / 3.3tov

That's a lead scorer right there, and he's projected to go late lottery. Yes he's older (21), but he's used the time to make improvements we can see rather than hoping other 18 year olds will make in the future, like Keon Johnson.

This is my guy for our 2nd pick if we get one. If we don't, and we fall outside of the top 3, I'd trade down and try to find a way to add another pick or future pick whilst getting Ayo.

Had him in my Top 10 a month ago. #9. Probably feel the same way about him now.

I think he’s the real deal, and I’m very confident in him. Watched a bunch more on him since. He’s got such a soft touch on finishes around the rim with beautiful scoops and finger rolls, he completely manipulated a defense, and he loves to hit the roller in the PnR. His game feels like a cross between SGA and Oladipo.

On top of that, he seems like a really self driven competitor who won’t stop until he’s great. Very Jimmy Butler in that regard, but doesn’t seem as chippy with his teammates. Ayo chose to return to college so he could get a full season as a lead option under his belt and another chance to compete for NCAA title as opposed to rushing into the league and being stuck with a bench role.

I think he will be a top 5 contributing rookie next season, on the right team. In the future I think he’ll be a top 2 option on a very good team. Like Haliburton, SGA and Mitchell, he will slide behind guys that he will out produce early and later in careers.

I like him so much I’m going to plan my draft around him since I know he will be available at a place we can definitely get him, and imaging the kind of comparable combos he might make in a pair.

Cade + Ayo = Tatum + SGA
Green + Ayo = LaVine/Booker + SGA
Suggs + Ayo = Paul + SGA
Kuminga + Ayo = Jaylen Brown + SGA
Mobley + Ayo = Bam + Butler/SGA
Sengun + Ayo = Jokic + Murray/SGA
Barnes + Ayo = Draymond + SGA
Ayo + Giddey = Mitchell + Ingles
Ayo + Wagner = Mitchell + Hayward/Harris

They seem like the main features to me. All of which could fit nicely into the defense-based lineups we’ve already assembled.

I’m calling it early this season, but Ayo is my man. Not necessarily the best, but the guy I feel strongest about.

[Knightro]

I've also heard Sengun has no perimeter defensive skill at all. Maybe he could learn that, maybe not. With Covid this year, scouts weren't allowed to go to Europe, so it may be harder to get a good evaluation of him.

We had another center here who had no perimeter defense and he became an allstar.

If you look at Kanter's per 36 mpg numbers, he's been pretty dominant since 19.

I mean that's the one major drawback to Şengün IMO. He pretty much has good power forward size - rumored to be 6'9" 245 lbs with a 7'0" wingspan - but a center's game both offensively and defensively.

Offensively, I'm pretty confident he's going to end up being really good. His hands are outstanding. His touch inside 15 feet is really great. He is an advanced passer for as young as he is. The shooting from 3 isn't there yet, but his FT stroke is pure and I don't see any reason why he won't extend the range.

Defense is the big question mark. It doesn't seem like big enough or long enough to be a rim protector, but he's 2nd in his league in blocks and gets a ton of steals too so he clearly has some instincts and timing. At the same time he's never defended the perimeter at all, so to ask him to try and do that against NBA talent seems like a recipe for disaster.

I like him a lot all things considered.

[basketballRob]

I've also heard Sengun has no perimeter defensive skill at all. Maybe he could learn that, maybe not. With Covid this year, scouts weren't allowed to go to Europe, so it may be harder to get a good evaluation of him.

We had another center here who had no perimeter defense and he became an allstar.

If you look at Kanter's per 36 mpg numbers, he's been pretty dominant since 19.

I mean that's the one major drawback to Şengün IMO. He pretty much has good power forward size - rumored to be 6'9" 245 lbs with a 7'0" wingspan - but a center's game both offensively and defensively.

Offensively, I'm pretty confident he's going to end up being really good. His hands are outstanding. His touch inside 15 feet is really great. He is an advanced passer for as young as he is. The shooting from 3 isn't there yet, but his FT stroke is pure and I don't see any reason why he won't extend the range.

Defense is the big question mark. It doesn't seem like big enough or long enough to be a rim protector, but he's 2nd in his league in blocks and gets a ton of steals too so he clearly has some instincts and timing. At the same time he's never defended the perimeter at all, so to ask him to try and do that against NBA talent seems like a recipe for disaster.

I like him a lot all things considered.

It's hard to judge players like him, because they aren't flashy. I felt the same about Sabonis and he didn't put numbers as good as Sengun.

He'll probably be good and teams will regret not taking him. Chad Ford says he'll likely go in the 8-14 range.


https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/domantas-sabonis-1.html



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[RookieStar]

I've also heard Sengun has no perimeter defensive skill at all. Maybe he could learn that, maybe not. With Covid this year, scouts weren't allowed to go to Europe, so it may be harder to get a good evaluation of him.

We had another center here who had no perimeter defense and he became an allstar.

If you look at Kanter's per 36 mpg numbers, he's been pretty dominant since 19.

I mean that's the one major drawback to Şengün IMO. He pretty much has good power forward size - rumored to be 6'9" 245 lbs with a 7'0" wingspan - but a center's game both offensively and defensively.

Offensively, I'm pretty confident he's going to end up being really good. His hands are outstanding. His touch inside 15 feet is really great. He is an advanced passer for as young as he is. The shooting from 3 isn't there yet, but his FT stroke is pure and I don't see any reason why he won't extend the range.

Defense is the big question mark. It doesn't seem like big enough or long enough to be a rim protector, but he's 2nd in his league in blocks and gets a ton of steals too so he clearly has some instincts and timing. At the same time he's never defended the perimeter at all, so to ask him to try and do that against NBA talent seems like a recipe for disaster.

I like him a lot all things considered.

People compare him to a shorter Sabonis, but why not a shorter Kanter?

Also I really think he is one of those players who'se stock will rise and fall greatly depending on the combine measurements. Some guys can get away with being an inch shorter, vertical not as high or wingspan shorter than expected because of other areas like shooting and ball handling skill.

[Knightro]

People compare him to a shorter Sabonis, but why not a shorter Kanter?

Also I really think he is one of those players who'se stock will rise and fall greatly depending on the combine measurements. Some guys can get away with being an inch shorter, vertical not as high or wingspan shorter than expected because of other areas like shooting and ball handling skill.

I don't like the Kanter comparison much.

Kanter has never been even an acceptable passer, Şengün isn't on Jokic's level, but he's ahead of pretty much everyone else.

Enes also never blocked shots or grabbed steals at any level.

Şengün seems like he doesn't have the measurables to be a good defender, but he's averaging 1.9 STL/40 and 2.2 BLK/40 which is *very* comparable/better than guys like Jokic, Nurkic and Gasol.

[pepe1991]

Can somebody explain to me what makes Wagner and Giddey top 10 lottery picks but Jalen Johnson not?

[basketballRob]

Can somebody explain to me what makes Wagner and Giddey top 10 lottery picks but Jalen Johnson not?

He only played like 12 games and had one big game against the 12th team in the ACC, Pitt.

Plus he looks a little stiff to me, maybe like a Thomas Robinson.

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[pepe1991]

Can somebody explain to me what makes Wagner and Giddey top 10 lottery picks but Jalen Johnson not?

He only played like 12 games and had one big game against the 12th team in the ACC, Pitt.

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And? 6'9, solid handles, good athletics, solid looking jumpshot.

Guy is being marked as " bad" because he quit college basketball during season Duke was terrible.

He will probably murder combine and his stock will skyrocket toward the tail end.

[basketballRob]

Can somebody explain to me what makes Wagner and Giddey top 10 lottery picks but Jalen Johnson not?

He only played like 12 games and had one big game against the 12th team in the ACC, Pitt.

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And? 6'9, solid handles, good athletics, solid looking jumpshot.

Guy is being marked as " bad" because he quit college basketball during season Duke was terrible.

He will probably murder combine and his stock will skyrocket toward the tail end.

Plus Wagner is the same age and had a superior season.

Plus I think he had personality problems before quitting this year.

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[pepe1991]

He only played like 12 games and had one big game against the 12th team in the ACC, Pitt.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

And? 6'9, solid handles, good athletics, solid looking jumpshot.

Guy is being marked as " bad" because he quit college basketball during season Duke was terrible.

He will probably murder combine and his stock will skyrocket toward the tail end.

Plus Wagner is the same age and had a superior season.

Plus I think he had personality problems before quitting this year.

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There is apsolutley nothing special about Franz Wagner.
His brother, with better physical profile, struggles to keep in nba and plays on one of worst nba teams , 3 years into his career he is already on exit doors.
Pretty much worst version of Dani Avdija

[Bensational]

I've also heard Sengun has no perimeter defensive skill at all. Maybe he could learn that, maybe not. With Covid this year, scouts weren't allowed to go to Europe, so it may be harder to get a good evaluation of him.

We had another center here who had no perimeter defense and he became an allstar.

If you look at Kanter's per 36 mpg numbers, he's been pretty dominant since 19.

I mean that's the one major drawback to Şengün IMO. He pretty much has good power forward size - rumored to be 6'9" 245 lbs with a 7'0" wingspan - but a center's game both offensively and defensively.

Offensively, I'm pretty confident he's going to end up being really good. His hands are outstanding. His touch inside 15 feet is really great. He is an advanced passer for as young as he is. The shooting from 3 isn't there yet, but his FT stroke is pure and I don't see any reason why he won't extend the range.

Defense is the big question mark. It doesn't seem like big enough or long enough to be a rim protector, but he's 2nd in his league in blocks and gets a ton of steals too so he clearly has some instincts and timing. At the same time he's never defended the perimeter at all, so to ask him to try and do that against NBA talent seems like a recipe for disaster.

I like him a lot all things considered.

People compare him to a shorter Sabonis, but why not a shorter Kanter?

Also I really think he is one of those players who'se stock will rise and fall greatly depending on the combine measurements. Some guys can get away with being an inch shorter, vertical not as high or wingspan shorter than expected because of other areas like shooting and ball handling skill.

From what I've seen of Sengun, I would say he has more in common with Jokic and Zion than he does with Kanter or Sabonis. He's not an athletic freak like Zion, but for a guy his size he can really get up and once he's up nothing can stop that kind of inertia. Then on the floor, his handles, footwork, vision and patience are closer to Jokic's style of game.

I'm not saying he's in their tier, just that his game seems to share more in common with them, than it does Kanter/Sabonis.

[Bensational]

Call me crazy, but I think there are at least 6 really good players in this draft who could become franchise players or a #2 option, potentially.

Cade
Suggs
Green
Mobley
Ayo
Sengun

I know we're all scarred on bigs for now, plus we're loaded with them, but I would take Mobley over anyone in our big rotation right now, and happily move some others to make room.