2022-2023 Regular Season Game 56: Denver Nuggets (38-17) at Orlando Magic (22-33) - 7pm

[SOUL]

G
Who doesn't have any excuse to be heavy footed is Isaac.

The guy out 2 years doesn't have an excuse? He also had 4 stocks in like 5 minutes. I agree though, he is much more of a 4/5 now than a 3.

[drsd]

Paolo’s scoring has come down to 20 ppg. It would be ashamed that he played shot so consistency all year shooting 20* only to lose that scoring average at the tail end of his rookie season. But oh well, I’ve noticed a ton of rookies have hit that slump right now.

Yes he is an undeniable rookie slump right now. But I loved how in this game he found other ways to positively contribute outside of scoring.

[jezzerinho]

G
Who doesn't have any excuse to be heavy footed is Isaac.

The guy out 2 years doesn't have an excuse? He also had 4 stocks in like 5 minutes. I agree though, he is much more of a 4/5 now than a 3.

What excuse could he have? He's been babied and minded to get to this point, he should be ultra fresh and in the shape of his life. I'm not questioning his effort, I'm pointing out that he's not moving with the speed he used to. Injuries, bulk, him being careful... who knows. But he's moving like a big now and not a wing.

[SOUL]

G
Who doesn't have any excuse to be heavy footed is Isaac.

The guy out 2 years doesn't have an excuse? He also had 4 stocks in like 5 minutes. I agree though, he is much more of a 4/5 now than a 3.

What excuse could he have? He's been babied and minded to get to this point, he should be ultra fresh and in the shape of his life. I'm not questioning his effort, I'm pointing out that he's not moving with the speed he used to. Injuries, bulk, him being careful... who knows. But he's moving like a big now and not a wing.

I wouldn't call rehab being fresh though, Klay is just starting to look normal again after his injuries. Isaac has shown some nice little moves but regardless, offensively it's hard to get any rhythm in 11 minutes. Defensively though the man had 3 steals and a block in his first stint so it's hard for me to get on him for being slow footed when he's still affecting the game. I do hope he is playing more at PF/C next year though

[basketballRob]

We're 6-2 when Isaac plays. 3 of the wins were against teams with the top 4 records in the NBA.

Are you guys sure this current team isn't a 50+ win team? I hear a lot of people who want to make radical changes, like trade our center and PG.

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[Ralof]

Isaac is slow footed cause he has been out for 113 years because of injuries,there is a concrete chance he will not recover that quickness and still,playing on the perimeter most of the time,he's still an impactful defensive player.

his impact,with no injuries,would have been total game-changing on that side,costant DOTY top 4-5 every year,if you remember just before injueries,was playing at top Anthony Davis level.

that said,Banchero is not a defensive problem,we need him to be just decent,6/10 defender,he can ben that,he is smart enough.

[pepe1991]

The guy out 2 years doesn't have an excuse? He also had 4 stocks in like 5 minutes. I agree though, he is much more of a 4/5 now than a 3.

What excuse could he have? He's been babied and minded to get to this point, he should be ultra fresh and in the shape of his life. I'm not questioning his effort, I'm pointing out that he's not moving with the speed he used to. Injuries, bulk, him being careful... who knows. But he's moving like a big now and not a wing.

I wouldn't call rehab being fresh though, Klay is just starting to look normal again after his injuries. Isaac has shown some nice little moves but regardless, offensively it's hard to get any rhythm in 11 minutes. Defensively though the man had 3 steals and a block in his first stint so it's hard for me to get on him for being slow footed when he's still affecting the game. I do hope he is playing more at PF/C next year though

Didn't Klay average 19 ppg last playoffs? That's his career average in playoffs.

Isaac plays like 15 min a week. And looks noticablly slower than he looked before. Will it get back? I don't know. But on perimeter players aren't scared of him and don't avoid attacking him.
His rim protection from past is thing of a past. I didn't notice anybody avoiding layups to escape him, like it was case with his existence in past.

I don't think it's needed to talk about player who played 80 min total after being out for 3 years. Time will tell. But first looks at him is as anybody normal could expect. Slower, bound to floor, less athletic, rustry , shaky jumpshot ... pretty much normal expetations for somebody who spent more time not playing than playing basketball in near 7 years.

[SOUL]

Didn't Klay average 19 ppg last playoffs? That's his career average in playoffs.

Looked way less efficient though, that's why famous exchange of Klay and Barkley/people who were being critical and Klay was like "Of course I'm not the same, damn, it takes time man". First month of this year looked crappy too but really coming into his own the last month.

Can't compare to Isaac who isn't ever on team for offense but defense still looks good.. just probably can't play SF. I mean you see him stripping Caruso and Brown still so he can be on smaller guys but might be more effective PF/C depending on if a team is small

[pepe1991]

Didn't Klay average 19 ppg last playoffs? That's his career average in playoffs.

Looked way less efficient though, that's why famous exchange of Klay and Barkley/people who were being critical and Klay was like "Of course I'm not the same, damn, it takes time man". First month of this year looked crappy too but really coming into his own the last month.

Can't compare to Isaac who isn't ever on team for offense but defense still looks good.. just probably can't play SF. I mean you see him stripping Caruso and Brown still so he can be on smaller guys but might be more effective PF/C depending on if a team is small

As far as his playoff performances go, he had identical PPG, identical RPG, APG eFG% and 0,8% lower TS than his career playoff averages.
He looked... most average version of himself ever. Granted, his heighs were ultra high, and once he fell back to "average" it looked that much worst i guess?


As for Isaac, too early to tell. But he looks like most average version of himself, probably worst than that. Especially on defensive end where he was uber elite and now...he simply isn't that any more.

maybe over time it will revert back ? Maybe. :dontkow:

[JBSouthpaw]

I like seeing Houstan getting minutes again.

[eyriq]

I really like Suggs at the 2. He needs to work on his catch and shoot threes but otherwise he's a great fit there. He brings a lot more than we'd get from a roleplayer in that spot. Energy, playmaking, and three level scoring potential. I also really like the Fultz|Suggs backcourt. Two ball handlers and playmakers that can get to the rim and create for others is a real treat. Their defense is outstanding. They really turn teams over and can outplay most opposing backcourts on the defensive end.

[Bergmaniac]

Very good win. We match up well with Denver and took advantage of our much superior bench. Bol and Cole were excellent, Carter had another really good defensive performance against Jokic, Fultz had some crucial steals, Suggs made some big defensive play and was solid offensively.

Jokic should win the MVP by a mile for carrying a team which has a hilariously bad bench and no other All-Star to a Top 3 record. It's just unreal how bad they are every time he sits. He was subpar by his standards due to all the turnovers but his team was still 100 times better when he was on the court. Carter plays him really well though and did again here, which was crucial. And we doubled him quite smartly and forced him into uncharacteristic turnovers, good job by Mosley and the players.

I also really like the Fultz|Suggs backcourt. Two ball handlers and playmakers that can get to the rim and create for others is a real treat. Their defense is outstanding. They really turn teams over and can outplay most opposing backcourts on the defensive end.

The stats disagree with you. The offense is plain terrible when they play together (94 ORTG), which is completely predictable and the defense is nowhere near good enough to make up for it. Both of them play better with a partner who can shoot. Two guards who can't shoot playing together is just not viable in today's NBA. Even in this game where they looked quite good at times, especially on D, we had -17 net rating when they were both on the court mostly because of offensive struggles. We won mostly because our bench completely obliterated Denver's bench which looked like a bad G-league team.

[Last Guardian]

Somehow Magic beat the best shooting team in the league without dominating from 3…it’s almost like defense wins games

Denver is actually a surprisingly good matchup for the Magic because they’re one of the lowest 3PT volume teams in the league.

Combine that they’re already low volume with the fact that two of their biggest threats from deep - Murray (6.1 3PTA per game at 40%) and Hyland (5.7 3PTA at 38%) - were out injured and got traded away today and it was even more beneficial for the Magic because they weren’t going to be behind the 8 ball from a pure math perspective like they are against a lot of other teams.

When Orlando played the Nuggets in Denver earlier in the year, the Magic attempted ten fewer threes… and perhaps not coincidentally Murray himself took 10 threes that night.

Now explain how we beat Boston 3 times.

You don’t need to gun 3’s to win. Denver proves this. A good shot selection is all you need offensively.

Magic are a paint team. They haven’t mastered it yet, and yes there are some good matchups and some bad ones, but that is their bread and butter. No reason to go away from it. As they improve defensively they will be more and more of a nightmare to play against. Boston already knows.

[Last Guardian]

We're 6-2 when Isaac plays. 3 of the wins were against teams with the top 4 records in the NBA.

Are you guys sure this current team isn't a 50+ win team? I hear a lot of people who want to make radical changes, like trade our center and PG.

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People are just being impatient. This team is already kind of good at full health and the two best offensive players are barely drinking age.

[JoshuaPotter]

We're 6-2 when Isaac plays. 3 of the wins were against teams with the top 4 records in the NBA.

Are you guys sure this current team isn't a 50+ win team? I hear a lot of people who want to make radical changes, like trade our center and PG.

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Ur listening to the wrong people.

We are a PG / SG tweak or Suggs + Anthony developing a unique edge away from a 60+ win team.

Its why I would rather look at the draft then overpaying or doing sign and trade rentals. Because what "might" be better is developing what we have.

[JoshuaPotter]

We're 6-2 when Isaac plays. 3 of the wins were against teams with the top 4 records in the NBA.

Are you guys sure this current team isn't a 50+ win team? I hear a lot of people who want to make radical changes, like trade our center and PG.

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People are just being impatient. This team is already kind of good at full health and the two best offensive players are barely drinking age.

I haven't had this much fun watching magic basketball in a decade. We literally have a 10 roster deep team with a myriad of talents.

[eyriq]

The stats disagree with you. The offense is plain terrible when they play together (94 ORTG), which is completely predictable and the defense is nowhere near good enough to make up for it. Both of them play better with a partner who can shoot. Two guards who can't shoot playing together is just not viable in today's NBA. Even in this game where they looked quite good at times, especially on D, we had -17 net rating when they were both on the court mostly because of offensive struggles. We won mostly because our bench completely obliterated Denver's bench which looked like a bad G-league team.

There is no way we have enough data to make a data driven decision on this backcourt combination.

[JoshuaPotter]

Somehow Magic beat the best shooting team in the league without dominating from 3…it’s almost like defense wins games

Denver is actually a surprisingly good matchup for the Magic because they’re one of the lowest 3PT volume teams in the league.

Combine that they’re already low volume with the fact that two of their biggest threats from deep - Murray (6.1 3PTA per game at 40%) and Hyland (5.7 3PTA at 38%) - were out injured and got traded away today and it was even more beneficial for the Magic because they weren’t going to be behind the 8 ball from a pure math perspective like they are against a lot of other teams.

When Orlando played the Nuggets in Denver earlier in the year, the Magic attempted ten fewer threes… and perhaps not coincidentally Murray himself took 10 threes that night.

Now explain how we beat Boston 3 times.

You don’t need to gun 3’s to win. Denver proves this. A good shot selection is all you need offensively.

Magic are a paint team. They haven’t mastered it yet, and yes there are some good matchups and some bad ones, but that is their bread and butter. No reason to go away from it. As they improve defensively they will be more and more of a nightmare to play against. Boston already knows.

I think we need either 3pt shooting or FT attempts + Defense. Seeing Suggs start at SG yesterday was exactly what I wanted out of a true 3+D type guy. As much as I love Harris when he gets his 3ptA up. Suggs can just outplay him on defense period and still make shots in rhythm.

The other elephant in the room is these flashes of long impressive defensive stretches. We may not be a 3pt or a paint team. We might just be a defensive grind it out style team.

[JoshuaPotter]

The stats disagree with you. The offense is plain terrible when they play together (94 ORTG), which is completely predictable and the defense is nowhere near good enough to make up for it. Both of them play better with a partner who can shoot. Two guards who can't shoot playing together is just not viable in today's NBA. Even in this game where they looked quite good at times, especially on D, we had -17 net rating when they were both on the court mostly because of offensive struggles. We won mostly because our bench completely obliterated Denver's bench which looked like a bad G-league team.

There is no way we have enough data to make a data driven decision on this backcourt combination.

One thing we do know is our bench potential might be no 1 next year if we keep our key pieces.

[Knightro]

Now explain how we beat Boston 3 times.

You don’t need to gun 3’s to win. Denver proves this. A good shot selection is all you need offensively.

Magic are a paint team. They haven’t mastered it yet, and yes there are some good matchups and some bad ones, but that is their bread and butter. No reason to go away from it. As they improve defensively they will be more and more of a nightmare to play against. Boston already knows.

Do you really want to know? Luck.

The first win against Boston on 12/16, the Celtics shot 11-46 from 3PT.

According to NBA.com stat tracking, they were 5-27 on "wide open" threes which is defined by no defender within 6 feet of the shooter. That's 18.5%.

For the season the Celtics as a team are 440-1072 on "wide open" threes - that's 41%.

The second win against Boston on 12/18, not only did the Celtics's best player Tatum not play, they shot 12-47 from 3PT.

According to NBA.com stat tracking, they were 11-32 on "wide open" threes which is defined by no defender within 6 feet of the shooter. That's 34.3%.

Again, for the season the Celtics as a team are 440-1072 on "wide open" threes - that's 41%.

Had they simply shot their season average in either game on those "wide open" shots which are not impacted significantly in any way by the Magic's defense, they would have won both games.

Now the third win over Boston was a genuinely good win. The Celtics hit 18-46 threes and the Magic only 11-27, but the Magic had 8 fewer turnovers, 13 more FT attempts and were the better defensive team on the inside that night.