Official 2024-2025 Magic General Season Thread I

[Knightro]

I have seen a lot of this same "they didn't even need KCP!" stuff for the last few weeks and it's like... ok.

It's easy to scream "THIS DECISION SUCKED!" over and over again into the void. But when you're staring at a "use it or lose it" situation with your cap space, what do you do instead?

Murray was the only starting caliber PG who got traded and he went for the equivalent of Anthony Black and two firsts. No one would have wanted to pay that.

Somebody give me something tangible that was an actual alternative.

[basketballRob]

I'm with Rick Carlisle. It's hard to find a weak defender on the Magic to exploit, and KCP adds to that.

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[eyriq]

I have seen a lot of this same "they didn't even need KCP!" stuff for the last few weeks and it's like... ok.

It's easy to scream "THIS DECISION SUCKED!" over and over again into the void. But when you're staring at a "use it or lose it" situation with your cap space, what do you do instead?

Murray was the only starting caliber PG who got traded and he went for the equivalent of Anthony Black and two firsts. No one would have wanted to pay that.

Somebody give me something tangible that was an actual alternative.

Klay, Hield, or GTJ

[Knightro]

Klay, Hield, or GTJ

Those are all ultimately different colors of the same car, right?

People are saying the Magic shouldn't have used their money on a SG/wing shooter because they needed a point guard/more ball handling.

None of the guys you listed give the Magic any of what people are saying they should have addressed.

[eyriq]

Klay, Hield, or GTJ

Those are all different colors of the same car, right?

People are saying the Magic shouldn't have used their money on a SG/wing shooter because they needed a point guard/more ball handling.

None of the guys you listed give the Magic any of what people are saying they should have addressed.

Yes, I realize the dominant voice was for us to target playmaking. I've never said we should address playmaking, I love that we are funneling playmaking through Paolo and Franz and think that AB is the additional playmaker that we need.

I did however think that we needed a three point specialist, someone who creates space on a high volume of threes. KCP groups in as a spot up shooter. Klay, Hield, and GTJ group as three point specialists.

[Skybox]

We’ve danced around it a bit, but I’ll just say it…”KCP WAS A BAD ACQUISITION “

Not just because he’s been woeful so far. Even with his career numbers- it made no sense. We had a TON of cap space and assets to work with and we simply outbid DEN based on “championship pedigree” etc…make no mistake, he came to ORL for the money and I don’t blame him. He’d have happily stayed there…but the league wasn’t shaken up by a journeyman 31yo 3&D guy switching teams. Lots of rationalizing ourselves into excitement here because it never really addressed our lineup…he’d make a LOT more sense off the bench, maintaining the defensive intensity with his veteran leadership and savvy…but $22m? Another SG that can’t create offense (other than steal & dunk)?

Good good player…just like Suggs…but nonsensical BIG summer move.

So what would you have done? Because I see this a lot and the alternatives were...?

Knowing that the cap space they had this past summer was not going to exist this upcoming summer because of Franz and Suggs' extensions.

There's probably 20 pages of what I would have done in this thread...Simons for one. Dejounte. Bojan from ATL. Gafford was clearly available as was Quickley...it wouldn't have been an older clone of a guy we have. Ingram or Russell, for all of their warts and question marks, make more sense...that's off the top of my head.

[Bensational]

I’m not unhappy with KCP, but if we could flip him for Divincenzo I would love to do that. He brings that extra gear in passing and playmaking and volume 3’s which I think would fit us well either in the SL or off the bench.

On KCP, I find it interesting that people praise OKC for trading Giddey for a similar player in Caruso. I’d much prefer Caruso over KCP, but I also wouldn’t want to pay the equivalent of Giddey to get him. Instead we used available cap space like they did to sign Hartenstein.

[Knightro]

We’ve danced around it a bit, but I’ll just say it…”KCP WAS A BAD ACQUISITION “

Not just because he’s been woeful so far. Even with his career numbers- it made no sense. We had a TON of cap space and assets to work with and we simply outbid DEN based on “championship pedigree” etc…make no mistake, he came to ORL for the money and I don’t blame him. He’d have happily stayed there…but the league wasn’t shaken up by a journeyman 31yo 3&D guy switching teams. Lots of rationalizing ourselves into excitement here because it never really addressed our lineup…he’d make a LOT more sense off the bench, maintaining the defensive intensity with his veteran leadership and savvy…but $22m? Another SG that can’t create offense (other than steal & dunk)?

Good good player…just like Suggs…but nonsensical BIG summer move.

So what would you have done? Because I see this a lot and the alternatives were...?

Knowing that the cap space they had this past summer was not going to exist this upcoming summer because of Franz and Suggs' extensions.

There's probably 20 pages of what I would have done in this thread...Simons for one. Dejounte. Bojan from ATL. Gafford was clearly available as was Quickley...it wouldn't have been an older clone of a guy we have. Ingram or Russell, for all of their warts and question marks, make more sense...that's off the top of my head.

I don’t mean this disrespectfully because I think you’re one of the best guys here, but talking about guys who weren’t traded is not providing realistic alternatives. Just my two cents.

You rattled off 7 names and only 2 of them actually changed teams.

And one of the two is another center.

[Skybox]

So what would you have done? Because I see this a lot and the alternatives were...?

Knowing that the cap space they had this past summer was not going to exist this upcoming summer because of Franz and Suggs' extensions.

There's probably 20 pages of what I would have done in this thread...Simons for one. Dejounte. Bojan from ATL. Gafford was clearly available as was Quickley...it wouldn't have been an older clone of a guy we have. Ingram or Russell, for all of their warts and question marks, make more sense...that's off the top of my head.

I don’t mean this disrespectfully because I think you’re one of the best guys here, but talking about guys who weren’t traded is not providing realistic alternatives. Just my two cents.

You rattled off 7 names and only 2 of them actually changed teams.

And one of the two is another center.

Thanks...

-sometimes guys don't move because the right team didn't call. I think it's safe to say Simons was available, among some of the others. I'm also okay with some BS "overpay" with an extra late frp or multiple srps for the recipients to crow about. They rarely amount to much. If a guy REALLY fits and fits better here than there - go get him. FO makes a ton of money to be able to see the underutilized or just unhappy guys who have another gear...Moneyball style. Build a better TEAM, even if you have to "lose" a trade on paper (or, really, in the papers). Rashard Lewis was a great example...overpay, played PF against his will - perfect fit. You've also been one of most fact-based capologists here and have shown how things CAN be made to work...Generally, I don't like how much the bottom of our roster is being paid. The best teams are top-heavy and don't even play those guys.

-many of my mad schemes are interconnected. We could have been the ones to steal Gafford (who is basically Claxton for half the price) and added a notable rim-defender to our top 5 defense. This would have allowed us to compromise a bit on our perimeter defenders (who are elite, almost to the point of redundancy) and plug in a score-first guy like Simons or even Poole . You can still sic Suggs and AB and, notably, Isaac on the biggest perimeter threats in the league...KCP, imo, is overkill. Happy to have him, but...

BTW, nowhere will I be quoted saying "KCP sucks". I think he'll get the shots to fall - there's probably still some adjustment to not receiving the bulk of your passes from the best playmaking big in history. He'll be fine...I just don't get the acquisition.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Read on Twitter

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I have to give myself some credit here I thought ZE wasn't as lumbering as people thought he and one of my picks in the draft.

[eyriq]

Tenth game tonight. Eleven games to twenty, a point where it's fair to take stock of where the Magic are as a team. What a rough start.

[JoshuaPotter]

Tenth game tonight. Eleven games to twenty, a point where it's fair to take stock of where the Magic are as a team. What a rough start.

I will give VFX some credit for his opinions.

We are so heavily invested in Paolo leading the offensive charge, we have yet to find a poor mans replacement, or have a game plan for the inevitable injury. Dallas has Kyre now for example but if Donic (sp?) got injured before they got him, they would have been up a similar creek.

[eyriq]

Tenth game tonight. Eleven games to twenty, a point where it's fair to take stock of where the Magic are as a team. What a rough start.

I will give VFX some credit for his opinions.

We are so heavily invested in Paolo leading the offensive charge, we have yet to find a poor mans replacement, or have a game plan for the inevitable injury. Dallas has Kyre now for example but if Donic (sp?) got injured before they got him, they would have been up a similar creek.

It's a fact that team performance fell off a cliff after the Paolo injury. There are a lot of factors contributing to that.

1. Other injuries/illnesses
2. Paolo's impact
3. System adjustments
4. Strength of schedule
5. Luck

We continue to deal with other injuries but are getting healthier. Paolo's impact is currently being over-stated. We'll now have some time for practice and our system will adjust. Our schedule is getting easier. Luck is whatever, but we should expect shots to go in more frequently than they have.

[Knightro]

Tenth game tonight. Eleven games to twenty, a point where it's fair to take stock of where the Magic are as a team. What a rough start.

I will give VFX some credit for his opinions.

We are so heavily invested in Paolo leading the offensive charge, we have yet to find a poor mans replacement, or have a game plan for the inevitable injury. Dallas has Kyre now for example but if Donic (sp?) got injured before they got him, they would have been up a similar creek.

Right or wrong, it’s not dissimilar to how it would go for a lot of other heliocentric teams.

And the fact is they played four consecutive road games and all four were against teams that won at least one playoff series last year.

Had their first four without Paolo been again this upcoming softer stretch, I suspect very strongly people would be praising their ability to endure and overcome a big loss.

[tiderulz]

I have seen a lot of this same "they didn't even need KCP!" stuff for the last few weeks and it's like... ok.

It's easy to scream "THIS DECISION SUCKED!" over and over again into the void. But when you're staring at a "use it or lose it" situation with your cap space, what do you do instead?

Murray was the only starting caliber PG who got traded and he went for the equivalent of Anthony Black and two firsts. No one would have wanted to pay that.

Somebody give me something tangible that was an actual alternative.

Collin Sexton, Anfernee Simons. both would have provided offense and ball movement and were not expensive.

[Knightro]

I have seen a lot of this same "they didn't even need KCP!" stuff for the last few weeks and it's like... ok.

It's easy to scream "THIS DECISION SUCKED!" over and over again into the void. But when you're staring at a "use it or lose it" situation with your cap space, what do you do instead?

Murray was the only starting caliber PG who got traded and he went for the equivalent of Anthony Black and two firsts. No one would have wanted to pay that.

Somebody give me something tangible that was an actual alternative.

Collin Sexton, Anfernee Simons. both would have provided offense and ball movement and were not expensive.

This truly may be my very biggest pet peeve.

“They were not expensive.”

How say you say that with any sort of certainty WHEN NEITHER GUY GOT TRADED.

Being annoyed that a team didn’t trade for a player who wasn’t traded at all just ain’t it.

[VFX]

I have seen a lot of this same "they didn't even need KCP!" stuff for the last few weeks and it's like... ok.

It's easy to scream "THIS DECISION SUCKED!" over and over again into the void. But when you're staring at a "use it or lose it" situation with your cap space, what do you do instead?

Murray was the only starting caliber PG who got traded and he went for the equivalent of Anthony Black and two firsts. No one would have wanted to pay that.

Somebody give me something tangible that was an actual alternative.

Tyus Jones signed for $5m and it wouldnt have cost Orlando moving Jalen Suggs out of position.

[eyriq]

I have seen a lot of this same "they didn't even need KCP!" stuff for the last few weeks and it's like... ok.

It's easy to scream "THIS DECISION SUCKED!" over and over again into the void. But when you're staring at a "use it or lose it" situation with your cap space, what do you do instead?

Murray was the only starting caliber PG who got traded and he went for the equivalent of Anthony Black and two firsts. No one would have wanted to pay that.

Somebody give me something tangible that was an actual alternative.

Tyus Jones signed for $5m and it wouldnt have cost Orlando moving Jalen Suggs out of position.

Taking the ball out of the hands of Suggs, Franz, Paolo, and AB should be a deal breaker for any move.

[VFX]

I have seen a lot of this same "they didn't even need KCP!" stuff for the last few weeks and it's like... ok.

It's easy to scream "THIS DECISION SUCKED!" over and over again into the void. But when you're staring at a "use it or lose it" situation with your cap space, what do you do instead?

Murray was the only starting caliber PG who got traded and he went for the equivalent of Anthony Black and two firsts. No one would have wanted to pay that.

Somebody give me something tangible that was an actual alternative.

Tyus Jones signed for $5m and it wouldnt have cost Orlando moving Jalen Suggs out of position.

Taking the ball out of the hands of Suggs, Franz, Paolo, and AB should be a deal breaker for any move.

As opposed to KCP who costs substantially more and does absolutely nothing on offense?

Also, you can drop AB from that statement. He isn't starting and doesn't run offense with the ball.

[The-Stallion70]

KCP acquisition is more evidence that Weltman needs to get canned