2024-2025 Regular Season Game 49: Orlando Magic (24-24) at Portland Trail Blazers (18-29) - 10pm

[tiderulz]

This is Orlando's shot distribution



out of 49 FGA, Franz & Banchero took 40. Good luck playing serious basketball with your two best players thinking they are prime Wade & Lebron. But they never froze their teammates in such fashion. This is more like Iverson and Melo or hell, this feels like iso Joe Johnson & Josh Smith.

hard part is, we dont know if this is the offensive design (which i think many if not most of us have called for an offensive coaching upgrade) or just the other players are afraid to shoot and it forces Franz and Paolo to take the majority.

[BlueBalls]

Fire coach to send a message.

Some of this forum would love that, Skiles return FTW!!

I swear people are losing their minds.

And others continue hopping in the car with Toonces, deluding themselves into believing he finally figured out how to drive

[BlueBalls]

So, thankfully I missed this game (those West coast game are hell for me as a euro who doesn't like to get up in the middle of the night to watch sports). Did anyone get injured? I'm just looking at the minutes in the box score and it's hard to tell in a blowout.

I did

[VFX]

I know people are watching these games.

Unless you absolutely are NOT and your main takeaway from watching this team’s offense is “wE nEeD mOaR sHoOtiNg” , then you don’t understand what the actual problem is with this roster.

Actually, you have about as good of an understanding as the current FO does in drafting Jett Howard, signing KCP, retaining Gary Harris, etc. You are watching box scores and throwing out 3pt % like you know wtf you are talking about. A lot of you are outing yourselves for not watching these games.

Shooting is an ancillary issue. They are not hitting shots because the offense is one dimensional. Orlando does not run plays. They hand the ball to Paolo or Franz and everyone gets out of the way. Yeah, teams are going to figure that out. They can plan against it. It’s mid-brained nonsense. That’s a bigger issue than signing another shooter and calling it a day.

For the millionth time… the problem is how Paolo and Franz are being utilized offensively. No action is run for either of these guys to get easy baskets. Everything is iso downhill. There is no point guard on this roster to make things easier for them.

I brought this issue up 5 games into the season when everything appeared to be clicking. This is a roster construction and coaching issue. Not directly a shooting issue. Shooting 3’s will become more efficient when the offense isn’t one dimensional and predictable. It doesn’t matter how talented Paolo and Franz are if they never get good looks at the basket.

Paolo and Franz were 18-40 tonight and the first 5 out had a combined 6 assists and 7 turnovers for the entire game. That tells me nothing is being run and if it is it’s being run poorly. You cannot lean on those two guys to be your primary playmakers/distributors with the ball. Period. They are your scorers that can do those things in a pinch.

[KillMonger]

Consensus time, and i'm actually curious about how people feel about this.....what percentage would you put on the coach being culpable for our play recently?

[Bergmaniac]

This one was more on the defence than the offense IMO, sure the offense was bad, but we never had a chance defending the way we did. Goga didn't look himself at all, I don't know if it was the concussion effect or what, but he looks lost on both ends all game long. The others weren't much better on this end, only Isaac in the fourth made some good plays, but it was too little too late.

But of course, the offense is also a big issue. I am becoming a broken record, but it's baffling that we continue to play so slow on that end. We almost never push the ball in semi-transition and we waste so much time on many possessions with handoffs that don't go anywhere. Cole has actually been better lately as a playmaker, but if he is your best passer and creator among your guards, your offense is likely to be bad. Paolo and Franz are ISOing too much and Paolo in particular is taking too many low efficiency shots. But they have their work cut out for them due to the poor shooting of their teammates, KCP being unable to hit corner 3s to the point where he is becoming reluctant to take them even when he is open makes it much easier for the opponents to defend Paolo and Franz's drives, and when he play alongside Black who is even more reluctant to shoot 3s, it makes it even harder. And then there is Wendell, of course, nobody even pretends to defend him at the 3 point line anymore, and why would they, he can't make a 3 to save his life this year. The lack of players who can create for themselves is also an issue, even a tanking team like Portland has quite a few more of these guys than we don.

[MartinsIzAfraud]

What better than one Gary Harris? Having 2 of them!!!

23 minutes - 4 points 2 boards -25 +\~
13 minutes - 3 points 1 board +2 +\-

Get these two bums off my team or at least reduce KCPs role and go get Sexton/Simons/Kennard/Allen someone who can create

[magik9113]

I fell asleep right at tip off. What on earth?!

[three3d]

LAZY FRONT OFFICE = LAZY OWNERSHIP
BAD FRONT OFFICE = BAD OWNERSHIP

Wake up EVERYONE and put the blame where it truly belongs. YES Weltman deserves blame BUT DeVos and Alex Martins are the heads of this mess that just continue to apply no pressure, make no demands, and they keep cashing the checks and if we squeak into the playoffs will raise ticket prices faster than trading a 2nd round pick.

This is TOTALLY on the ownership

[eyriq]

Consensus time, and i'm actually curious about how people feel about this.....what percentage would you put on the coach being culpable for our play recently?

0%

[JF5]

This one was more on the defence than the offense IMO, sure the offense was bad, but we never had a chance defending the way we did. Goga didn't look himself at all, I don't know if it was the concussion effect or what, but he looks lost on both ends all game long. The others weren't much better on this end, only Isaac in the fourth made some good plays, but it was too little too late.

But of course, the offense is also a big issue. I am becoming a broken record, but it's baffling that we continue to play so slow on that end. We almost never push the ball in semi-transition and we waste so much time on many possessions with handoffs that don't go anywhere. Cole has actually been better lately as a playmaker, but if he is your best passer and creator among your guards, your offense is likely to be bad. Paolo and Franz are ISOing too much and Paolo in particular is taking too many low efficiency shots. But they have their work cut out for them due to the poor shooting of their teammates, KCP being unable to hit corner 3s to the point where he is becoming reluctant to take them even when he is open makes it much easier for the opponents to defend Paolo and Franz's drives, and when he play alongside Black who is even more reluctant to shoot 3s, it makes it even harder. And then there is Wendell, of course, nobody even pretends to defend him at the 3 point line anymore, and why would they, he can't make a 3 to save his life this year. The lack of players who can create for themselves is also an issue, even a tanking team like Portland has quite a few more of these guys than we don.

The 3 point shot since Paolo/Franz has come back looks like it can be a threat. As there have been multiple games already where it looked pretty good/reliable. Just an inconsistency issue.

I think the 2 problems are clearly spacing and the lack of chemistry.

1. Spacing you can't put Goga and Black together on the court with Paolo and Franz. 4 guys who can't shoot 3s makes it so much easier to defend. That's why I never understood people wanted this lineup. 2 of these guys don't do anything offensively and it puts pressure on Paolo and Franz to score.

2. Chemistry... These games in the last few weeks has been the first time that a lot of these guys have played together all season. People are coming in and out of the lineups and it makes it hard to have the same continuity like you did last year. Players need to get back I'm shape and on the same page. Then you'll see winning. Right now there is just too much uncertainty on both ends of the court.

[JF5]

This one was more on the defence than the offense IMO, sure the offense was bad, but we never had a chance defending the way we did. Goga didn't look himself at all, I don't know if it was the concussion effect or what, but he looks lost on both ends all game long. The others weren't much better on this end, only Isaac in the fourth made some good plays, but it was too little too late.

But of course, the offense is also a big issue. I am becoming a broken record, but it's baffling that we continue to play so slow on that end. We almost never push the ball in semi-transition and we waste so much time on many possessions with handoffs that don't go anywhere. Cole has actually been better lately as a playmaker, but if he is your best passer and creator among your guards, your offense is likely to be bad. Paolo and Franz are ISOing too much and Paolo in particular is taking too many low efficiency shots. But they have their work cut out for them due to the poor shooting of their teammates, KCP being unable to hit corner 3s to the point where he is becoming reluctant to take them even when he is open makes it much easier for the opponents to defend Paolo and Franz's drives, and when he play alongside Black who is even more reluctant to shoot 3s, it makes it even harder. And then there is Wendell, of course, nobody even pretends to defend him at the 3 point line anymore, and why would they, he can't make a 3 to save his life this year. The lack of players who can create for themselves is also an issue, even a tanking team like Portland has quite a few more of these guys than we don.

The 3 point shot since Paolo/Franz has come back looks like it can be a threat. As there have been multiple games already where it looked pretty good/reliable. Just an inconsistency issue.

I think the 2 problems are clearly spacing and the lack of chemistry.

1. Spacing you can't put Goga and Black together on the court with Paolo and Franz. 4 guys who can't shoot 3s makes it so much easier to defend. That's why I never understood people wanted this lineup. 2 of these guys don't do anything offensively and it puts pressure on Paolo and Franz to score.

2. Chemistry... These games in the last few weeks has been the first time that a lot of these guys have played together all season. People are coming in and out of the lineups and it makes it hard to have the same continuity like you did last year. Players need to get back I'm shape and on the same page. Then you'll see winning. Right now there is just too much uncertainty on both ends of the court.

[Kent]

LAZY FRONT OFFICE = LAZY OWNERSHIP
BAD FRONT OFFICE = BAD OWNERSHIP

Wake up EVERYONE and put the blame where it truly belongs. YES Weltman deserves blame BUT DeVos and Alex Martins are the heads of this mess that just continue to apply no pressure, make no demands, and they keep cashing the checks and if we squeak into the playoffs will raise ticket prices faster than trading a 2nd round pick.

This is TOTALLY on the ownership

TBF, there are ownerships like you describe across all professional sports that show how meddling and applying pressure produce less than desirable results.

I'm not defending anyone here, but a more involved front office isn't the magic bullet, no pun intended.

Some front offices and executives that are held in high esteem are judged by one move.

I'm optimistic Weltman has it in him. But he doesn't have unlimited time.

[JoshuaPotter]

I know people are watching these games.

Unless you absolutely are NOT and your main takeaway from watching this team’s offense is “wE nEeD mOaR sHoOtiNg” , then you don’t understand what the actual problem is with this roster.

Actually, you have about as good of an understanding as the current FO does in drafting Jett Howard, signing KCP, retaining Gary Harris, etc. You are watching box scores and throwing out 3pt % like you know wtf you are talking about. A lot of you are outing yourselves for not watching these games.

Shooting is an ancillary issue. They are not hitting shots because the offense is one dimensional. Orlando does not run plays. They hand the ball to Paolo or Franz and everyone gets out of the way. Yeah, teams are going to figure that out. They can plan against it. It’s mid-brained nonsense. That’s a bigger issue than signing another shooter and calling it a day.

For the millionth time… the problem is how Paolo and Franz are being utilized offensively. No action is run for either of these guys to get easy baskets. Everything is iso downhill. There is no point guard on this roster to make things easier for them.

I brought this issue up 5 games into the season when everything appeared to be clicking. This is a roster construction and coaching issue. Not directly a shooting issue. Shooting 3’s will become more efficient when the offense isn’t one dimensional and predictable. It doesn’t matter how talented Paolo and Franz are if they never get good looks at the basket.

Paolo and Franz were 18-40 tonight and the first 5 out had a combined 6 assists and 7 turnovers for the entire game. That tells me nothing is being run and if it is it’s being run poorly. You cannot lean on those two guys to be your primary playmakers/distributors with the ball. Period. They are your scorers that can do those things in a pinch.

Fun fact. I am cheap and listen to the games all the time followed by the highlights.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what you are saying. I could "hear it" in Paolo rookie year. If anything, Mo injury hurt Franz distribution as pairing them together caused those two to click and move the ball around.

AB is a great player at least in terms of skillset and IQ but mindset is officially a concern with him.

Gary Harris 2.0 I mean KCP + Gary were woeful, but even I can't blame them if they there is no offensive scheme.

We are copying Denver in terms of having a ball dominant F and Paolo just isn't that player right now either. So losses will happen.

Cole, I just don't get it, he was never great, but due to lack of scoring off the bench just isn't Moe level of efficiency on offense.

The rough part in all this? I ain't even mad at the players themselves per se. This team is having its worst performance because the glue pieces are injured.

[JoshuaPotter]

Consensus time, and i'm actually curious about how people feel about this.....what percentage would you put on the coach being culpable for our play recently?

0%

Depends on the context....

play recently? Um, probably 0%

The play leading up to recently? 100%.

[Bergmaniac]

This one was more on the defence than the offense IMO, sure the offense was bad, but we never had a chance defending the way we did. Goga didn't look himself at all, I don't know if it was the concussion effect or what, but he looks lost on both ends all game long. The others weren't much better on this end, only Isaac in the fourth made some good plays, but it was too little too late.

But of course, the offense is also a big issue. I am becoming a broken record, but it's baffling that we continue to play so slow on that end. We almost never push the ball in semi-transition and we waste so much time on many possessions with handoffs that don't go anywhere. Cole has actually been better lately as a playmaker, but if he is your best passer and creator among your guards, your offense is likely to be bad. Paolo and Franz are ISOing too much and Paolo in particular is taking too many low efficiency shots. But they have their work cut out for them due to the poor shooting of their teammates, KCP being unable to hit corner 3s to the point where he is becoming reluctant to take them even when he is open makes it much easier for the opponents to defend Paolo and Franz's drives, and when he play alongside Black who is even more reluctant to shoot 3s, it makes it even harder. And then there is Wendell, of course, nobody even pretends to defend him at the 3 point line anymore, and why would they, he can't make a 3 to save his life this year. The lack of players who can create for themselves is also an issue, even a tanking team like Portland has quite a few more of these guys than we don.

The 3 point shot since Paolo/Franz has come back looks like it can be a threat. As there have been multiple games already where it looked pretty good/reliable. Just an inconsistency issue.

I think the 2 problems are clearly spacing and the lack of chemistry.

1. Spacing you can't put Goga and Black together on the court with Paolo and Franz. 4 guys who can't shoot 3s makes it so much easier to defend. That's why I never understood people wanted this lineup. 2 of these guys don't do anything offensively and it puts pressure on Paolo and Franz to score.

2. Chemistry... These games in the last few weeks has been the first time that a lot of these guys have played together all season. People are coming in and out of the lineups and it makes it hard to have the same continuity like you did last year. Players need to get back I'm shape and on the same page. Then you'll see winning. Right now there is just too much uncertainty on both ends of the court.

A centre who doesn't shoot 3 but is a significant lob threat and a dominant offensive rebounder like Goga is isn't really a problem spacing wise. He had a poor game last night but for this year he has the highest offensive rating on the team and last year our offense was better when he played compared to when Wendell played, and that was before Wendell forgot how to shoot. The guards are the real issue IMO, all of them are shooting poorly this year and they aren't doing much playmaking either. KCP's 3 pointer has completely abandoned him and outside of this he is a very limited offensive player. Suggs is turnover prone, not really a playmaker and his 3 point shooting has been poor this year too. Black has potential as a playmaker, but there are too many games he is content to just float around on offense and his poor shooting from 3 is always a problem and even when he is more aggressive, it's just very hard to be a good playmaker in the NBA if you aren't much of a threat to score. Cole has improved lately but he is still shooting 31% from 3 and has a ghastly 50.2 TS% for the season, his playmaking is pretty limited and he is prone to taking pretty bad shots. Etc., etc.

[Fortune Teller]

The Magic have been near the bottom of the league in offensive stats for the past 8 years -- a/k/a The Weltman era. As other posters have pointed, he has continuously doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on defense-first players with limited offensive skills and flat-out refuses to address obvious weaknesses through trades. I'd like to watch him try to put a jigsaw puzzle together and keep mashing the same pieces into the wrong places for years.

Paolo literally asked for a playmaker last summer, and Welt gave him KCP after using 2 lottery picks the previous summer to draft AB and Jett, neither of whom would even be in the rotation for a real contender. Jett can't even make our rotation. He has had *8 YEARS* to improve the offensive personnel on this team and people still think we need to be patient and give him more time.

[eyriq]

This is brutal

Read on Twitter

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[KillMonger]

The Magic have been near the bottom of the league in offensive stats for the past 8 years -- a/k/a The Weltman era. As other posters have pointed, he has continuously doubled, tripled and quadrupled down on defense-first players with limited offensive skills and flat-out refuses to address obvious weaknesses through trades. I'd like to watch him try to put a jigsaw puzzle together and keep mashing the same pieces into the wrong places for years.

Paolo literally asked for a playmaker last summer, and Welt gave him KCP after using 2 lottery picks the previous summer to draft AB and Jett, neither of whom would even be in the rotation for a real contender. Jett can't even make our rotation. He has had *8 YEARS* to improve the offensive personnel on this team and people still think we need to be patient and give him more time.

it's crazy when you think about it....weltman been here since 2017....blew it up in the 20-21 season....ever since then he's been in evaluation mode

[JoshuaPotter]

This is brutal

Read on Twitter

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Good, Cole said it. STEP UP.