Let's Talk About Mario

[ezzzp]

Also, just realized this is a Mario thread. Should probably keep the Fournier talk to his own thread if he has one (or we can make one).

Why? This is a long thread of good discussions centered around Mario Hezonja and his future at the wing position as a focal point ... Oladipo + Fournier are key factors in any discussion about Mario's future role and the Magic's future at his position.

[LacosteM]

I don't really think Fournier has a future with this team. Mario is much superior fit than him at 3 and will soonly replace imo. Even in his rookie season team stats were heavily in favor of Mario and he was part of some of the most successful lineups.

At this stage Fournier reminds me a lot of Kevin Martin. Good efficient scorer, who doesn't really bring anything else to the table and doesn't make teammates around him better. Sooner or later he'll have to move to the bench and I doubt he'll be willing to do that.

[thelead]

Looking at those numbers leads me to believe that he isn't that great of a passer when you consider how often he has the ball in his hands and how many minutes he played. I mean, AG played ~700 less minutes but made ~200 less passes. Now, think about how often Evan had the opportunity to pass versus AG's opportunities. Evan was looking out for his bank account last year. He played well for most of the season but he often missed plenty of passes (as did Dipo for half the year). Oladipo played ~200 less minutes but had ~200 more passes.

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

We both know that a pass does not always equal an assist. That being said, I don't think Evan is a god awful passer or that he's unwilling to pass, I'm just saying that in watching the games he missed SEVERAL easy passes that would have equated to "better" shots. That's kinda hard to show statistically. I'm being a bit tougher on him knowing (thinking, anyway) what type of money he's probably looking for.

[BadMofoPimp]

Looking at those numbers leads me to believe that he isn't that great of a passer when you consider how often he has the ball in his hands and how many minutes he played. I mean, AG played ~700 less minutes but made ~200 less passes. Now, think about how often Evan had the opportunity to pass versus AG's opportunities. Evan was looking out for his bank account last year. He played well for most of the season but he often missed plenty of passes (as did Dipo for half the year). Oladipo played ~200 less minutes but had ~200 more passes.

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

But, did you see some of those bad passes!!!

[thelead]

Looking at those numbers leads me to believe that he isn't that great of a passer when you consider how often he has the ball in his hands and how many minutes he played. I mean, AG played ~700 less minutes but made ~200 less passes. Now, think about how often Evan had the opportunity to pass versus AG's opportunities. Evan was looking out for his bank account last year. He played well for most of the season but he often missed plenty of passes (as did Dipo for half the year). Oladipo played ~200 less minutes but had ~200 more passes.

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

But, did you see some of those bad passes!!!

[the_hobo]

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

But, Evan gonna prove y'all wrong!!!

I fixed it for him

[Catledge]

Looking at those numbers leads me to believe that he isn't that great of a passer when you consider how often he has the ball in his hands and how many minutes he played. I mean, AG played ~700 less minutes but made ~200 less passes. Now, think about how often Evan had the opportunity to pass versus AG's opportunities. Evan was looking out for his bank account last year. He played well for most of the season but he often missed plenty of passes (as did Dipo for half the year). Oladipo played ~200 less minutes but had ~200 more passes.

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

We both know that a pass does not always equal an assist. That being said, I don't think Evan is a god awful passer or that he's unwilling to pass, I'm just saying that in watching the games he missed SEVERAL easy passes that would have equated to "better" shots. That's kinda hard to show statistically. I'm being a bit tougher on him knowing (thinking, anyway) what type of money he's probably looking for.

We also know that Fournier is by far the best shooter of the players you mentioned, and the second-best rim finisher after Gordon. So it would be the correct decision for him to drive and shoot more and pass less. If Payton and Gordon were better shooters, they would pass less, and their teammates (like Fournier) would look for them more.

[zelenooq]

Looking at those numbers leads me to believe that he isn't that great of a passer when you consider how often he has the ball in his hands and how many minutes he played. I mean, AG played ~700 less minutes but made ~200 less passes. Now, think about how often Evan had the opportunity to pass versus AG's opportunities. Evan was looking out for his bank account last year. He played well for most of the season but he often missed plenty of passes (as did Dipo for half the year). Oladipo played ~200 less minutes but had ~200 more passes.

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

Assists are not ball movement
Passes are ball movement
Ok?

[BadMofoPimp]

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

We both know that a pass does not always equal an assist. That being said, I don't think Evan is a god awful passer or that he's unwilling to pass, I'm just saying that in watching the games he missed SEVERAL easy passes that would have equated to "better" shots. That's kinda hard to show statistically. I'm being a bit tougher on him knowing (thinking, anyway) what type of money he's probably looking for.

We also know that Fournier is by far the best shooter of the players you mentioned, and the second-best rim finisher after Gordon. So it would be the correct decision for him to drive and shoot more and pass less. If Payton and Gordon were better shooters, they would pass less, and their teammates (like Fournier) would look for them more.

FYI. Logic is not allowed around here!

[zelenooq]

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

We both know that a pass does not always equal an assist. That being said, I don't think Evan is a god awful passer or that he's unwilling to pass, I'm just saying that in watching the games he missed SEVERAL easy passes that would have equated to "better" shots. That's kinda hard to show statistically. I'm being a bit tougher on him knowing (thinking, anyway) what type of money he's probably looking for.

We also know that Fournier is by far the best shooter of the players you mentioned, and the second-best rim finisher after Gordon. So it would be the correct decision for him to drive and shoot more and pass less. If Payton and Gordon were better shooters, they would pass less, and their teammates (like Fournier) would look for them more.

basketball is team sport
Think what that means

[ezzzp]

Looking at those numbers leads me to believe that he isn't that great of a passer when you consider how often he has the ball in his hands and how many minutes he played. I mean, AG played ~700 less minutes but made ~200 less passes. Now, think about how often Evan had the opportunity to pass versus AG's opportunities. Evan was looking out for his bank account last year. He played well for most of the season but he often missed plenty of passes (as did Dipo for half the year). Oladipo played ~200 less minutes but had ~200 more passes.

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

Assists are not ball movement
Passes are ball movement
Ok?

Actually assists are a key part of ball movement, otherwise you are just playing catch. Regardless, maybe you just accidentally missed this a few posts earlier:



Ok?

[j-ragg]

I just wonder what you think most of the board is looking at ezzzp.

I can respect that you take the time with these screen shots, that somehow at 28 years old I still can't figure out how to do with a computer (maybe I'm autistic).

But we all see it.. the guy has blinders on especially on the fast break. He has his favorites, like Vuc especially.

You can make the argument he SHOULD be the one to keep the ball and not pass it, or that he SHOULD pass to Vuc primarily because he's a great offensive player, but it seems like you always try to argue the point that it is the case. Just surprising since you seem to watch just as much as us but never give him that criticism.

[LacosteM]

I just wonder what you think most of the board is looking at ezzzp.

I can respect that you take the time with these screen shots, that somehow at 28 years old I still can't figure out how to do with a computer (maybe I'm autistic).

But we all see it.. the guy has blinders on especially on the fast break. He has his favorites, like Vuc especially.

You can make the argument he SHOULD be the one to keep the ball and not pass it, or that he SHOULD pass to Vuc primarily because he's a great offensive player, but it seems like you always try to argue the point that it is the case. Just surprising since you seem to watch just as much as us but never give him that criticism.

Just press PrtSc and than paste it to paint.

[j-ragg]

I just wonder what you think most of the board is looking at ezzzp.

I can respect that you take the time with these screen shots, that somehow at 28 years old I still can't figure out how to do with a computer (maybe I'm autistic).

But we all see it.. the guy has blinders on especially on the fast break. He has his favorites, like Vuc especially.

You can make the argument he SHOULD be the one to keep the ball and not pass it, or that he SHOULD pass to Vuc primarily because he's a great offensive player, but it seems like you always try to argue the point that it is the case. Just surprising since you seem to watch just as much as us but never give him that criticism.

Just press PrtSc and than paste it to paint.

Then you gotta resize it right? Or would it not be too big? And upload to some kinda image hosting site?

[LacosteM]

I just wonder what you think most of the board is looking at ezzzp.

I can respect that you take the time with these screen shots, that somehow at 28 years old I still can't figure out how to do with a computer (maybe I'm autistic).

But we all see it.. the guy has blinders on especially on the fast break. He has his favorites, like Vuc especially.

You can make the argument he SHOULD be the one to keep the ball and not pass it, or that he SHOULD pass to Vuc primarily because he's a great offensive player, but it seems like you always try to argue the point that it is the case. Just surprising since you seem to watch just as much as us but never give him that criticism.

Just press PrtSc and than paste it to paint.

Then you gotta resize it right? Or would it not be too big? And upload to some kinda image hosting site?

Wait a sec until I try somethinh

[LacosteM]

[url][/url]

[thelead]

not really...

Fournier Assist Ratio: 15.5
Gordon Assist Ratio: 14.9

*Assist Ratio is the number of assists a player averages per 100 of their own possessions NBA.com

Oladipo was also the secondary ball handler behind EP, and often initiated the offense. Anyone who watched Magic games regularly knows that.

We both know that a pass does not always equal an assist. That being said, I don't think Evan is a god awful passer or that he's unwilling to pass, I'm just saying that in watching the games he missed SEVERAL easy passes that would have equated to "better" shots. That's kinda hard to show statistically. I'm being a bit tougher on him knowing (thinking, anyway) what type of money he's probably looking for.

We also know that Fournier is by far the best shooter of the players you mentioned, and the second-best rim finisher after Gordon. So it would be the correct decision for him to drive and shoot more and pass less. If Payton and Gordon were better shooters, they would pass less, and their teammates (like Fournier) would look for them more.

No doubt that this is part of the equation. I like Evan and would like to keep him as a 6th man but I remember countless 1 on 3 fastbreaks where a lot of us were just like "PASS THE BALL TO THE TRAILER!!!". Give me an open AG jumper over Evan trying to lay it up over 3 defenders ALL DAY, EVERY DAY.

[Catledge]

I just wonder what you think most of the board is looking at ezzzp.

I can respect that you take the time with these screen shots, that somehow at 28 years old I still can't figure out how to do with a computer (maybe I'm autistic).

But we all see it.. the guy has blinders on especially on the fast break. He has his favorites, like Vuc especially.

You can make the argument he SHOULD be the one to keep the ball and not pass it, or that he SHOULD pass to Vuc primarily because he's a great offensive player, but it seems like you always try to argue the point that it is the case. Just surprising since you seem to watch just as much as us but never give him that criticism.

Allow me to introduce you to research 101: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias.

Here are some random examples of incorrect conclusions produced by we-all-see-it logic:

-- Gravity pulls harder on heavier things than on lighter things.
-- Illnesses are caused by demons who have invaded the bodies of sinners.
-- The sun revolves around the earth.
-- Three point shooting doesn't win championships.

What we think we see is not always what is. That's why we look at data.

[LacosteM]

I just wonder what you think most of the board is looking at ezzzp.

I can respect that you take the time with these screen shots, that somehow at 28 years old I still can't figure out how to do with a computer (maybe I'm autistic).

But we all see it.. the guy has blinders on especially on the fast break. He has his favorites, like Vuc especially.

You can make the argument he SHOULD be the one to keep the ball and not pass it, or that he SHOULD pass to Vuc primarily because he's a great offensive player, but it seems like you always try to argue the point that it is the case. Just surprising since you seem to watch just as much as us but never give him that criticism.

Just press PrtSc and than paste it to paint.

Then you gotta resize it right? Or would it not be too big? And upload to some kinda image hosting site?

Okay I got it.

1. First press PrtSc

2. Than paste it to paint and crop the part that you want to post and adjust size. Save it.

3. Go to TinyPic and upload that image from your computer.

4. At the end just copy the code for forums&message and forums from TinyPic and paste it in "Insert URL" in preview.

That should work.

[ezzzp]

Give me an open AG jumper over Evan trying to lay it up over 3 defenders ALL DAY, EVERY DAY.

You can't be serious? Fournier was one of the best open court finishers in the NBA, able to generate excellent points per possession from exactly those kind of plays. He either got free throws or finished a large majority of the time.

Meanwhile AG jump shot: