2022-2023 Regular Season Game 56: Denver Nuggets (38-17) at Orlando Magic (22-33) - 7pm

[Knightro]

You don’t need to gun 3’s to win. Denver proves this. A good shot selection is all you need offensively.

I'm also very weary of suggesting anyone should try and replicate what Denver does offensively when they have one of the most unique players in the history of the NBA and their offense amounts to a point-center facilitating every part of their operation.

Jokic is 1 of 1. That's why they're able to get away with not shooting a lot of threes. His overwhelming skill set affords them opportunities at the rim that other teams will simply never get because they don't have a Jokic.

[Bergmaniac]

The stats disagree with you. The offense is plain terrible when they play together (94 ORTG), which is completely predictable and the defense is nowhere near good enough to make up for it. Both of them play better with a partner who can shoot. Two guards who can't shoot playing together is just not viable in today's NBA. Even in this game where they looked quite good at times, especially on D, we had -17 net rating when they were both on the court mostly because of offensive struggles. We won mostly because our bench completely obliterated Denver's bench which looked like a bad G-league team.

There is no way we have enough data to make a data driven decision on this backcourt combination.

There is tons of data from the whole league showing that pairing two guards who can't shoot doesn't work. That's why no team does it anymore unless they are blatantly tanking.

[Orlando Dawg]

The curse of Mo Bamba has been lifted!

[JoshuaPotter]

The curse of Mo Bamba has been lifted!

Blast of course! I didn't see it. Perfect record without Bamba!

[Last Guardian]

You don’t need to gun 3’s to win. Denver proves this. A good shot selection is all you need offensively.

I'm also very weary of suggesting anyone should try and replicate what Denver does offensively when they have one of the most unique players in the history of the NBA and their offense amounts to a point-center facilitating every part of their operation.

Jokic is 1 of 1. That's why they're able to get away with not shooting a lot of threes. His overwhelming skill set affords them opportunities at the rim that other teams will simply never get because they don't have a Jokic.

True. And the counterpoint is you want to replicate Golden State who has two top five shooters in history…also not really attainable.

[cedric76]

Isaac is slow footed cause he has been out for 113 years because of injuries,there is a concrete chance he will not recover that quickness and still,playing on the perimeter most of the time,he's still an impactful defensive player.

his impact,with no injuries,would have been total game-changing on that side,costant DOTY top 4-5 every year,if you remember just before injueries,was playing at top Anthony Davis level.

that said,Banchero is not a defensive problem,we need him to be just decent,6/10 defender,he can ben that,he is smart enough.

Slow footed ? He might not be as fast as he used to be (yet) but he is not slow at all

[eyriq]

The stats disagree with you. The offense is plain terrible when they play together (94 ORTG), which is completely predictable and the defense is nowhere near good enough to make up for it. Both of them play better with a partner who can shoot. Two guards who can't shoot playing together is just not viable in today's NBA. Even in this game where they looked quite good at times, especially on D, we had -17 net rating when they were both on the court mostly because of offensive struggles. We won mostly because our bench completely obliterated Denver's bench which looked like a bad G-league team.

There is no way we have enough data to make a data driven decision on this backcourt combination.

There is tons of data from the whole league showing that pairing two guards who can't shoot doesn't work. That's why no team does it anymore unless they are blatantly tanking.

The wisdom of the crowd is a reliable signal, I don't disagree with you there. I also don't find that to be convincing for this particular backcourt. Fultz might be the best low volume 3 PG in the league and Suggs is young and still developing. Suggs is better than Harris and worse than Fultz so this is the best backcourt we can put out there, it's as simple as that. And it passes the eye test so I say we get more reps for them and let the on-court outcomes decide. It's probably all moot since Harris will be back and I expect him to start but it's been a personal wish of mine to see this backcourt all season.

[JoshuaPotter]

There is no way we have enough data to make a data driven decision on this backcourt combination.

There is tons of data from the whole league showing that pairing two guards who can't shoot doesn't work. That's why no team does it anymore unless they are blatantly tanking.

The wisdom of the crowd is a reliable signal, I don't disagree with you there. I also don't find that to be convincing for this particular backcourt. Fultz might be the best low volume 3 PG in the league and Suggs is young and still developing. Suggs is better than Harris and worse than Fultz so this is the best backcourt we can put out there, it's as simple as that. And it passes the eye test so I say we get more reps for them and let the on-court outcomes decide. It's probably all moot since Harris will be back and I expect him to start but it's been a personal wish of mine to see this backcourt all season.

Here is the thing. I hate "whataboutism" in the NBA. Go with the flow or go with what seems to win the most games is typically the play but keep in mind there is a good chance a team will always have the necessary pieces to do aspects of it better then you because you are going with the flow.

I am sitting here, pontificating, pondering, that what if, we are a defense + FT shooting team. What if we can knock the better 3pta shooters out of rythm by constantly getting to the FT line and getting free points. It's crazy enough to make sense, and thus far fits the biggest strength Paolo has shown us.

[eyriq]

There is tons of data from the whole league showing that pairing two guards who can't shoot doesn't work. That's why no team does it anymore unless they are blatantly tanking.

The wisdom of the crowd is a reliable signal, I don't disagree with you there. I also don't find that to be convincing for this particular backcourt. Fultz might be the best low volume 3 PG in the league and Suggs is young and still developing. Suggs is better than Harris and worse than Fultz so this is the best backcourt we can put out there, it's as simple as that. And it passes the eye test so I say we get more reps for them and let the on-court outcomes decide. It's probably all moot since Harris will be back and I expect him to start but it's been a personal wish of mine to see this backcourt all season.

Here is the thing. I hate "whataboutism" in the NBA. Go with the flow or go with what seems to win the most games is typically the play but keep in mind there is a good chance a team will always have the necessary pieces to do aspects of it better then you because you are going with the flow.

I am sitting here, pontificating, pondering, that what if, we are a defense + FT shooting team. What if we can knock the better 3pta shooters out of rythm by constantly getting to the FT line and getting free points. It's crazy enough to make sense, and thus far fits the biggest strength Paolo has shown us.

I'm with ya, well said. Going against the grain can be a competitive advantage with high enough talent.

[Bergmaniac]

There is no way we have enough data to make a data driven decision on this backcourt combination.

There is tons of data from the whole league showing that pairing two guards who can't shoot doesn't work. That's why no team does it anymore unless they are blatantly tanking.

The wisdom of the crowd is a reliable signal, I don't disagree with you there. I also don't find that to be convincing for this particular backcourt. Fultz might be the best low volume 3 PG in the league and Suggs is young and still developing. Suggs is better than Harris and worse than Fultz so this is the best backcourt we can put out there, it's as simple as that. And it passes the eye test so I say we get more reps for them and let the on-court outcomes decide. It's probably all moot since Harris will be back and I expect him to start but it's been a personal wish of mine to see this backcourt all season.

The starting lineup with Harris in it has been great in a pretty big sample size - 118.4 ORTG, 112.5 DRTG. Even when he is barely ever shooting Harris' mere presence means he has a defender at him at all times which makes our slashers' life so much easier.

Suggs might be better than Harris currently (it's debatable IMO), but not be much, and Harris fits the rest of the starters way better which is quite important.

As for the eye test, Suggs and Fultz playing together really doesn't pass it for me. Yes, they look great at times when they can force a few steals in a row and get easy buckets in transitions, but in the halfcourt we are just bad offensively when they play together. And even with the best defense in terms of forcing turnovers most offensive possessions are in the halfcourt, and this is doubly true in the playoffs. And that's the ultimate goal, to build a team which can contend.

[eyriq]

There is tons of data from the whole league showing that pairing two guards who can't shoot doesn't work. That's why no team does it anymore unless they are blatantly tanking.

The wisdom of the crowd is a reliable signal, I don't disagree with you there. I also don't find that to be convincing for this particular backcourt. Fultz might be the best low volume 3 PG in the league and Suggs is young and still developing. Suggs is better than Harris and worse than Fultz so this is the best backcourt we can put out there, it's as simple as that. And it passes the eye test so I say we get more reps for them and let the on-court outcomes decide. It's probably all moot since Harris will be back and I expect him to start but it's been a personal wish of mine to see this backcourt all season.

The starting lineup with Harris in it has been great in a pretty big sample size - 118.4 ORTG, 112.5 DRTG. Even when he is barely ever shooting Harris' mere presence means he has a defender at him at all times which makes our slashers' life so much easier.

Suggs might be better than Harris currently (it's debatable IMO), but not be much, and Harris fits the rest of the starters way better which is quite important.

As for the eye test, Suggs and Fultz playing together really doesn't pass it for me. Yes, they look great at times when they can force a few steals in a row and get easy buckets in transitions, but in the halfcourt we are just bad offensively when they play together. And even with the best defense in terms of forcing turnovers most offensive possessions are in the halfcourt, and this is doubly true in the playoffs. And that's the ultimate goal, to build a team which can contend.

Fair enough, I can respect this view. That offensive rating with Harris in the SL is slick.

[Orlando Dawg]

Maybe this has been discussed but Franz has lost his mojo.
The dude is a shell of his former self.

[jezzerinho]

Franz is so damn talented that even with a slump he's still a valuable starter.

He'll be fine. He's played a ridiculous amount of ball. Summer league, rookie season, Euro championship right to the finals, then the entire second season on starter minutes, sometimes having to play out of position due to injuries. I'd be shattered if i were him.

[drsd]

We're 6-2 when Isaac plays. 3 of the wins were against teams with the top 4 records in the NBA.

Are you guys sure this current team isn't a 50+ win team? I hear a lot of people who want to make radical changes, like trade our center and PG.

I expect the playoffs next year and am anxious for the play-ins this year.


..

[ibraheim718]

You judge these young players too harshly. Wagner is fine.. the season has ebbs and flows to it. There is a considerable lull the two weeks prior to the all star break. The players will refresh and gather for the playoff push. I'm sure Mosley is going to try and motivate them to go grab a play-in berth. If he can and your team with a core of twenty-somethings is able to surge and make that play-in and/or win the first game you guys are well on your way and will only get better with two more young talented pieces. By year 5 you'll be a perennial play-off team. After that is have they learned what it takes and what to do to win games.

[Knightro]

You judge these young players too harshly. Wagner is fine.. the season has ebbs and flows to it. There is a considerable lull the two weeks prior to the all star break. The players will refresh and gather for the playoff push. I'm sure Mosley is going to try and motivate them to go grab a play-in berth. If he can and your team with a core of twenty-somethings is able to surge and make that play-in and/or win the first game you guys are well on your way and will only get better with two more young talented pieces. By year 5 you'll be a perennial play-off team. After that is have they learned what it takes and what to do to win games.

When you say "by year 5" what year do you consider the Magic to be in right now?

[ibraheim718]

You judge these young players too harshly. Wagner is fine.. the season has ebbs and flows to it. There is a considerable lull the two weeks prior to the all star break. The players will refresh and gather for the playoff push. I'm sure Mosley is going to try and motivate them to go grab a play-in berth. If he can and your team with a core of twenty-somethings is able to surge and make that play-in and/or win the first game you guys are well on your way and will only get better with two more young talented pieces. By year 5 you'll be a perennial play-off team. After that is have they learned what it takes and what to do to win games.

When you say "by year 5" what year do you consider the Magic to be in right now?

This is year 2. We all have different opinions on this but like I said previously I don't count the tear down as year 1.

[zaymon]

You judge these young players too harshly. Wagner is fine.. the season has ebbs and flows to it. There is a considerable lull the two weeks prior to the all star break. The players will refresh and gather for the playoff push. I'm sure Mosley is going to try and motivate them to go grab a play-in berth. If he can and your team with a core of twenty-somethings is able to surge and make that play-in and/or win the first game you guys are well on your way and will only get better with two more young talented pieces. By year 5 you'll be a perennial play-off team. After that is have they learned what it takes and what to do to win games.

When you say "by year 5" what year do you consider the Magic to be in right now?

We are exactly between year 3, year 6 and year 11.

[Knightro]

This is year 2. We all have different opinions on this but like I said previously I don't count the tear down as year 1.

So you're saying that the Magic won't be a perennial play off team until 2025-2026? When Franz is Year 1 of his max extension and Paolo's already agreed to his?

How long do you think rebuilds take? The Magic should be a playoff team starting next season, and if they're not something went way wrong.

[VFX]

This is year 2. We all have different opinions on this but like I said previously I don't count the tear down as year 1.

So you're saying that the Magic won't be a perennial play off team until 2025-2026? When Franz is Year 1 of his max extension and Paolo's already agreed to his?

How long do you think rebuilds take? The Magic should be a playoff team starting next season, and if they're not something went way wrong.

The front office has this off-season to create a legitimate playoff team. That includes the draft and free agency.

There is no more evaluation after this season and the core should be decided.