Is Fred VanFleet still on the agenda?

[drsd]

LOL, he will 100% decline it

I really don't think this is that simple. VanVleet has a chance to increase his salary by not declining. He probably will decline to become an UFA, but it is not 100%.

[drsd]

No you can't if he doesn't decline player's option. He has $22,8M option for 2023-24.

LOL, he will 100% decline it

He probably will but is yet to happen. He can also opt out and resign with Raptors without becomming FA.

Just because VanVleet turned down 114M last year does not mean he want to leave Toronto, after all. It was jus the max the Raptors could offer at that time.

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[basketballRob]

Fultz with a 502 2PT%, FVV 434.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[Skybox]

Fultz with a 502 2PT%, FVV 434.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

Fultz is also taller and a better dunker ...FVV is twice the PG however

Fultz has longer hair too

Fultz was better in college

Fultz is better at Call of Duty

Fultz...

[Knightro]

Fultz with a 502 2PT%, FVV 434.

FVV takes and makes many more threes at a higher percentage than Fultz.

FVV takes and makes many more free throws at a higher percentage than Fultz.

FVV is a better playmaker (more assists, far fewer turnovers) than Fultz.

FVV statistically (all advanced metrics) is a better/more impactful defender than Fultz.

Fultz is a better finisher and better at making the least valuable shots in basketball (anything midrange).

I am actually quite curious if a downtick in minutes per game would actually help FVV stay healthier and increase his shooting efficiency or not.

[Skin]

I thought everybody said Cole Anthony was the next FVV when we drafted him.

[Skybox]

Fultz with a 502 2PT%, FVV 434.

FVV takes and makes many more threes at a higher percentage than Fultz.

FVV takes and makes many more free throws at a higher percentage than Fultz.

FVV is a better playmaker (more assists, far fewer turnovers) than Fultz.

FVV statistically (all advanced metrics) is a better/more impactful defender than Fultz.

Fultz is a better finisher and better at making the least valuable shots in basketball (anything midrange).

I am actually quite curious if a downtick in minutes per game would actually help FVV stay healthier and increase his shooting efficiency or not.

All fair points…what about wingspan?

[drsd]

Fultz with a 502 2PT%, FVV 434.

MAX Fultz now!


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[drsd]

Fultz with a 502 2PT%, FVV 434.

FVV takes and makes many more threes at a higher percentage than Fultz.

FVV takes and makes many more free throws at a higher percentage than Fultz.

FVV is a better playmaker (more assists, far fewer turnovers) than Fultz.

FVV statistically (all advanced metrics) is a better/more impactful defender than Fultz.

Fultz is a better finisher and better at making the least valuable shots in basketball (anything midrange).

I am actually quite curious if a downtick in minutes per game would actually help FVV stay healthier and increase his shooting efficiency or not.

Interesting comparing these:
Markelle Fultz (2023-2023) vs. Fred VanVleet (2023-2023): Head-to-Head Stats Comparison


The per36 numbers have Fultz as a far more efficient player on offense. Both score the same 17 ppg per 36, but Fultz does it in 2.1 less FGA per game. This is because of the much higher 2point attempt rate and the near null 3pt. attempt rate. Both players have the same assist per 36 line, and Fultz is the better rebounder.

What this really points to is that Orlando would probably be making a mistake to sign VanVleet for 30M a year. Especially if Fultz would resign at 20M a year.

The problem with Fultz taking 5 more two-pointers per 36 minutes than VanVleet is that this means the middle is clogged.

[fendilim]

We’re not going anywhere with a midget backcourt.

Look at the Cavs

[tiderulz]

We’re not going anywhere with a midget backcourt.

Look at the Cavs

1 year with new players is where the bar is set?

and that midget backcourt...
Mitchell 23/5/7 in the playoffs
Garland 20/2/5 in the playoffs.

safe to say, it wasnt the backcourt that let them down.

Mobley was 10/10
Allen 10/7.

[fendilim]

We’re not going anywhere with a midget backcourt.

Look at the Cavs

1 year with new players is where the bar is set?

and that midget backcourt...
Mitchell 23/5/7 in the playoffs
Garland 20/2/5 in the playoffs.

safe to say, it wasnt the backcourt that let them down.

Mobley was 10/10
Allen 10/7.

That’s true, FVV isnt as good as them though.

[MasterGMer]

I hope we do not sign anybody this summer and wait for the next offseason. The goal is to run it back with our potential lottery picks. Or a trade alike. But i will not pay FVV 30M+ just to be a veteran piece for this young team.

[Magicman125]

I hope we do not sign anybody this summer and wait for the next offseason. The goal is to run it back with our potential lottery picks. Or a trade alike. But i will not pay FVV 30M+ just to be a veteran piece for this young team.

I'm not saying I want a repeat of the Ibaka trade + Biyombo signing offseason, but it does feel like the players really want to make the playoffs next year and I don't know if adding even more youth to a team that was one of the youngest in the league last year is the way to do so. I'd like some kind of consolidation of youth/assets to start our trajectory as one of the stronger teams in the conference. Would like a competitive first round series next year, but maybe I'm just being impatient. Hard to tell what the right move is and I've been frustrated in Hammond and Weltman's patience since their tenure began in the FO.

[zaymon]

I hope we do not sign anybody this summer and wait for the next offseason. The goal is to run it back with our potential lottery picks. Or a trade alike. But i will not pay FVV 30M+ just to be a veteran piece for this young team.

I'm not saying I want a repeat of the Ibaka trade + Biyombo signing offseason, but it does feel like the players really want to make the playoffs next year and I don't know if adding even more youth to a team that was one of the youngest in the league last year is the way to do so. I'd like some kind of consolidation of youth/assets to start our trajectory as one of the stronger teams in the conference. Would like a competitive first round series next year, but maybe I'm just being impatient. Hard to tell what the right move is and I've been frustrated in Hammond and Weltman's patience since their tenure began in the FO.

I dont think you are wrong. We almost made the playins, while being very injured for over 1/4 of the season. Taking internal development into account we have good chance we will make playoffs even without any major moves. Does picking 12 instead of 17 is really that important to us right now ?
We wont be winning it all next season, but we have very few reasons to force being bad. Signing somebody right now is practically free money. It will be different when Franz extension kicks in, but thats in the future.
We want as much professionalism in our club as possible. Developing fringe NBA players over exposing potential stars to winning is not worth it imo. If we can sign good veterans we should do it. I want to hear one good argument why we shouldnt do it.

[GANGSTERDOG]

Well the VanVleet rumours are firing up again.

This tweet is telling about his thoughts.

Read on Twitter

It could be that a SnT for VanVleet sending Fultz back is the deal that makes the most sense. But then Orlando would want something in that. What's a good ask?

For me it would be adding G-Harris and getting Trent as well in a linked SnT deal.


Orlando becomes.

VanVleet/Anthony
Trent/Suggs/Houstan
F-Wagner/Bol
Banchero/Isaac/Okeke
Carter/Bitadze

Add two FRP-rookies for the bench.deep-bench and resign M-Wagner, and that is a clear playoff team in my opinion.


..

You can't sign and trade two playres in sign and trade, has to be two separated deals.

Also you aren't getting FVV for Fultz in sign and trade without attaching pick to it. That trade makes no sense for Raptors whatsoever.
They have Scottie Barnes and Siakam and Poetl ( if they sign him), they would pack some of the worst floor spacing nba has ever seen.

More realistic trade would be:
Magic send: Fultz, 6th or 11th pick, Gary Harris
Raptors send: Vleet

Than i would assume Raptors would trade Siakam and build around 6/11 pick, own pick, Barnes and let Trent or Poetll walk and probably trade OG for more picks.

btw Bleacher report front page has "Lakers Rumors: Fred VanVleet Named Potential Free-Agent Target amid Kyrie Irving Buzz"


Lakers are like anciant Rome. All paths lead to LA.

You want to pay for an overpaid contract with a top 12 pick in this draft? I don't get it.
I'll only sign and trade for FVV for the 11th pick if he's getting paid less than 7 million a year for 5 years.

[pepe1991]

Well the VanVleet rumours are firing up again.

This tweet is telling about his thoughts.

Read on Twitter

It could be that a SnT for VanVleet sending Fultz back is the deal that makes the most sense. But then Orlando would want something in that. What's a good ask?

For me it would be adding G-Harris and getting Trent as well in a linked SnT deal.


Orlando becomes.

VanVleet/Anthony
Trent/Suggs/Houstan
F-Wagner/Bol
Banchero/Isaac/Okeke
Carter/Bitadze

Add two FRP-rookies for the bench.deep-bench and resign M-Wagner, and that is a clear playoff team in my opinion.


..

You can't sign and trade two playres in sign and trade, has to be two separated deals.

Also you aren't getting FVV for Fultz in sign and trade without attaching pick to it. That trade makes no sense for Raptors whatsoever.
They have Scottie Barnes and Siakam and Poetl ( if they sign him), they would pack some of the worst floor spacing nba has ever seen.

More realistic trade would be:
Magic send: Fultz, 6th or 11th pick, Gary Harris
Raptors send: Vleet

Than i would assume Raptors would trade Siakam and build around 6/11 pick, own pick, Barnes and let Trent or Poetll walk and probably trade OG for more picks.

btw Bleacher report front page has "Lakers Rumors: Fred VanVleet Named Potential Free-Agent Target amid Kyrie Irving Buzz"


Lakers are like anciant Rome. All paths lead to LA.

You want to pay for an overpaid contract with a top 12 pick in this draft? I don't get it.
I'll only sign and trade for FVV for the 11th pick if he's getting paid less than 7 million a year for 5 years.

Again, that's not type of deal i would make, it's example of sign& trade that makes sense for all 3 parties.

Also quantity of player doesn't fix Magic lack of quality at certain positions.

Magic have lot of money to spend and no starting level PG, starting level SG nor backup C.
Even if they run back same roster , and add two more rookies, it will be near impossible to play both rookies serious min and stunt development of team and hinder win percentage, and not fall off in playoff race.


Fred Van Vleet is heads and shoulders better than any Magic current guard. We can debate is that $30M a year worthy or not, but he is better non less. If you want to be contender at some point, you will be forced to cut off most of your lottery selected players for better fitting/ better players anyway.

[MasterGMer]

I hope we do not sign anybody this summer and wait for the next offseason. The goal is to run it back with our potential lottery picks. Or a trade alike. But i will not pay FVV 30M+ just to be a veteran piece for this young team.

I'm not saying I want a repeat of the Ibaka trade + Biyombo signing offseason, but it does feel like the players really want to make the playoffs next year and I don't know if adding even more youth to a team that was one of the youngest in the league last year is the way to do so. I'd like some kind of consolidation of youth/assets to start our trajectory as one of the stronger teams in the conference. Would like a competitive first round series next year, but maybe I'm just being impatient. Hard to tell what the right move is and I've been frustrated in Hammond and Weltman's patience since their tenure began in the FO.

I dont think you are wrong. We almost made the playins, while being very injured for over 1/4 of the season. Taking internal development into account we have good chance we will make playoffs even without any major moves. Does picking 12 instead of 17 is really that important to us right now ?
We wont be winning it all next season, but we have very few reasons to force being bad. Signing somebody right now is practically free money. It will be different when Franz extension kicks in, but thats in the future.
We want as much professionalism in our club as possible. Developing fringe NBA players over exposing potential stars to winning is not worth it imo. If we can sign good veterans we should do it. I want to hear one good argument why we shouldnt do it.

Because we have to get ready for an overpay of Paolo and Franz. If we do that now with FVV making 30M or more, what is the cap situation like when Franz and Paolo's Rookie Extensions are due? Do not forget, we still have Cole, Suggs, and Fultz plus even Wendell in 2 or 3 years down the line. We do not have to over spend now.

[basketballRob]

I'm not saying I want a repeat of the Ibaka trade + Biyombo signing offseason, but it does feel like the players really want to make the playoffs next year and I don't know if adding even more youth to a team that was one of the youngest in the league last year is the way to do so. I'd like some kind of consolidation of youth/assets to start our trajectory as one of the stronger teams in the conference. Would like a competitive first round series next year, but maybe I'm just being impatient. Hard to tell what the right move is and I've been frustrated in Hammond and Weltman's patience since their tenure began in the FO.

I dont think you are wrong. We almost made the playins, while being very injured for over 1/4 of the season. Taking internal development into account we have good chance we will make playoffs even without any major moves. Does picking 12 instead of 17 is really that important to us right now ?
We wont be winning it all next season, but we have very few reasons to force being bad. Signing somebody right now is practically free money. It will be different when Franz extension kicks in, but thats in the future.
We want as much professionalism in our club as possible. Developing fringe NBA players over exposing potential stars to winning is not worth it imo. If we can sign good veterans we should do it. I want to hear one good argument why we shouldnt do it.

Because we have to get ready for an overpay of Paolo and Franz. If we do that now with FVV making 30M or more, what is the cap situation like when Franz and Paolo's Rookie Extensions are due? Do not forget, we still have Cole, Suggs, and Fultz plus even Wendell in 2 or 3 years down the line. We do not have to over spend now.

26-27
Paolo $35m
FVV $26m on a descending deal.
Franz $35m
Suggs $10m-$15m descending
Cole $10m-$15m descending
WCJ $15m
6th pick $7m
11 pick $5m

A low estimate for the cap would be $155m, and the luxury tax $187m. That would give us $34m-$44m to stay under the tax and pay 7 more players. All the second round picks that we've been kicking down the road might come in handy then to fill out the roster.

The Magic could be looking to add FVV to a 3-yr deal to avoid coming close to the luxury tax in 26-27.

If FVV wasn't good at that point, you could trade him or amnesty him and pay $6.5m.

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[drsd]

Magic have lot of money to spend and no starting level PG, starting level SG nor backup C.

I realise this is way off topic. And if there is no main course, what does it matter what kind of bread is there (without solving the guards, what relevance is there who the front-court backups are). But I do think the Magic will try out Bitadze as a "real" solution behind Carter. Personally, I love M-Wagner as a 3rd stringer C. His focus on offense is great for scrub minutes.

Cater/Bitadze/M-Wagner. I like that depth chart.


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