Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 6.0

[Knightro]

Boston traded a first round pick to get Brodgon and then turned around and used his salary a year later plus more picks to get the vastly superior Jrue Holiday. They didn’t sit around and moan that the Brogdon move didn’t work out. They stayed proactive and made their team better.

Sometimes trades and free agent acquisitions are simply moves to acquire assets that can be used in bigger and better transactions down the line.

Don’t assume just because the Magic’s front office is cowardly and risk adverse that it can’t be done.

[Bensational]

Give it time, they’ll make the right additions at the right time.

Championship by 2030 - it’s in the manifesto!

[TheChaser]

Ok. Here is where I’m at now.

Suggs / Black / Fultz
Klay / Cole / Caleb
Franz / Jett / Beasley
Paolo / JI / Mo Wagner
Claxton / WCJ / Missi

Claxton and Klay would be amazing. The best three-point specialist and an All-NBA defensive center that's a lob threat? Home run.

Yep. I can get down with this lineup.

[GelbeWand09]

AB offers unique playmaking ability and size along with terrific versatility that allows him to defend multiple positions and contribute across the board. He has potential to develop into a top-tier guard.

I like AB but I fear he ends up like Exum. A guy drafted as a long PG who ended up as a wing defensive specialist role player. Like Exum AB hasn't showed any PG like passing skills or stats at any level so far. AB only showed PoA defense & defensive versatility in his rookie season. His shooting % was a nice surprise but he only took wide open set 3s on very low volume. Suggs wouldn't had one of the worst shooting seasons ever too as a rookie if he had only taken these kind of shots.
AB looks really slow and not very explosive for a potential PG. His ballhandling is shaky too. If you see him as a PG, he lacks passing skills, rim pressure, driving ability at all, volume shooting, motion shooting, advanced handles. That's a lot to overcome. So far he only showed the ability to defend PG's but nothing on offense resembled a PG. The hope is that he couldn't show these skills, because he wasn't really used as one, but I have my doubts.

[Skybox]

Boston traded a first round pick to get Brodgon and then turned around and used his salary a year later plus more picks to get the vastly superior Jrue Holiday. They didn’t sit around and moan that the Brogdon move didn’t work out. They stayed proactive and made their team better.

Sometimes trades and free agent acquisitions are simply moves to acquire assets that can be used in bigger and better transactions down the line.

Don’t assume just because the Magic’s front office is cowardly and risk adverse that it can’t be done.

I’d go a step further and say Brogdon DID work out. He was 6moy…but BOS didn’t cling to “good” when they saw that “better” was available. We could easily make moves to improve…Tyus, Melton, GTJ, KCP, for example, are all mentioned. But this summer, the stars are really aligned for a BIG move. Depending on your view of the FO, they may have played everything near perfectly to set themselves up just for this summer to be their opus…or, they got lucky and all they’ll do is try not to backslide…I tend to be optimistic that their master plan is coming to fruition and their inaction at the trade deadline was a sign of diligently sticking to their plan despite the fact that it’s ahead of schedule (on-court).

Idk why we didn’t move Fultz for anything (Tyus?) at the TD. I really want to believe that shelving Jett was the plan all along. People on here proclaiming that it was doesn’t necessarily make it so…we’re all guessing, whether you add “imo” or not. But Weltman’s stubborn certainty and vision makes it a possibility that last TD wasn’t “The Time”…this summer IS. We’ll see.

[Skybox]

Ok. Here is where I’m at now.

Suggs / Black / Fultz
Klay / Cole / Caleb
Franz / Jett / Beasley
Paolo / JI / Mo Wagner
Claxton / WCJ / Missi

Claxton and Klay would be amazing. The best three-point specialist and an All-NBA defensive center that's a lob threat? Home run.

Yep. I can get down with this lineup.

Math says NO…

[SOUL]

The Celtics path is not attainable for several reasons. If we want a path, we have to look at what the Nuggets did because we are in similar situations. Small(er) market, homegrown stars, looking for the right role guys (or additional star) to add to the team without compromising players we believe in. Maybe having to make a heartbreaking trade (Gary Harris, who was traded after 7 seasons there, not 2-3).

The Nuggets won with homegrown talents (Jokic, Murray, MPJ), a young draft pick not playing many minutes (Braun), and then a bunch of role guys they traded for years later when they were actually contending, but since they didn't win this year, the narrative that we have to do what the Celtics did seems to be gripping the Magic fanbase like a fever. Not sure I exactly get it, but I do think it's not a fair comparison or barometer to even measure up against, considering people are leaving out the literal most important thing about the catalyst for the current Celtics....

The Nets trade.

Yes, it is easier to trade and flip assets when you have a team that's already good with a (secretly injured) All-Star (Isaiah Thomas) to be traded for another All-Star (Kyrie) while drafting two top 3 picks (Tatum and Brown) from someone else's misery and failures.

(This also is an argument that a team can pick two directions at once. The Celtics had no idea how ready or not Tatum and Brown would be while already having a competitive roster.)

Are we docking our front office for not making moves for a free agency that hasn't happened yet? Or the previous years when we had a literal tear down and opposite path of the Celtics where we traded all of the guys with value to start the rebuild via the draft and then getting Franz/Suggs/Paolo from it?

Again, Fultz, sure. Not knowing what to do with Jett, fine. But it's not like anybody here knew how good we'd be or not either.

I think people are just getting mad to get mad. We had a deep bench and a lot of young guys pitching in to help lead our team. It's not 100% youth focused (which it shouldn't be) and there were several upgrades we could've had last year to potentially get us to the second round, but, I mean.. if that's what is the ire of so many people is.. then chalk me up to not understanding that.

[SOUL]

That being said, I am advocating for moves to be made this year and subsequent years. This is the right offseason to do so. Anything before this? Very debatable besides a few specific players at specific times.

[tiderulz]

AB offers unique playmaking ability and size along with terrific versatility that allows him to defend multiple positions and contribute across the board. He has potential to develop into a top-tier guard.

I like AB but I fear he ends up like Exum. A guy drafted as a long PG who ended up as a wing defensive specialist role player. Like Exum AB hasn't showed any PG like passing skills or stats at any level so far. AB only showed PoA defense & defensive versatility in his rookie season. His shooting % was a nice surprise but he only took wide open set 3s on very low volume. Suggs wouldn't had one of the worst shooting seasons ever too as a rookie if he had only taken these kind of shots.
AB looks really slow and not very explosive for a potential PG. His ballhandling is shaky too. If you see him as a PG, he lacks passing skills, rim pressure, driving ability at all, volume shooting, motion shooting, advanced handles. That's a lot to overcome. So far he only showed the ability to defend PG's but nothing on offense resembled a PG. The hope is that he couldn't show these skills, because he wasn't really used as one, but I have my doubts.

yeah, i just dont see this "unique playmaking ability" from AB.

[mattyBoi]

We are going into year 8 of Weltman. He has yet to make a significant signing or trade to improve this team.

[VFX]

Are we docking our front office for not making moves for a free agency that hasn't happened yet? Or the previous years when we had a literal tear down and opposite path of the Celtics where we traded all of the guys with value to start the rebuild via the draft and then getting Franz/Suggs/Paolo from it?

Again, Fultz, sure. Not knowing what to do with Jett, fine. But it's not like anybody here knew how good we'd be or not either.

I think people are just getting mad to get mad. We had a deep bench and a lot of young guys pitching in to help lead our team. It's not 100% youth focused (which it shouldn't be) and there were several upgrades we could've had last year to potentially get us to the second round, but, I mean.. if that's what is the ire of so many people is.. then chalk me up to not understanding that.

The amount of assets that have died on the vine here is astounding. Almost comical. The 2018 draft was friable IMO had they not just taken control of the team. In the top 25 picks of that draft 6 have been busts that don’t get regular minutes. Bamba was one of them.

The indecision of not committing to playing youth while developing the team is also not good. Like others have said, you have to acquire players in the meantime that have trade value outside of merely expiring contract money. Why? Because you aren’t developing Paolo or Franz just to trade them later.

They have moved nobody of note or brought in anyone that can be later moved. The assets just depreciate. Gary Harris and Markelle Fultz have significantly less value than they had 2 years ago. For example, now is the perfect time to move Wendell Carter. He’s now been a starter, he’s on a good deal, he makes no sense with Paolo, and he’s still a positive asset they can construct a deal around. Will they trade him with 2 years left on his deal? Probably not. Because they aren’t smart and don’t take risks.

The other thing is taking risks on players elsewhere. Magic don’t do this. They signed 40 year old Joe Ingles and traded for nobody at the deadline after their star rookie made it clear he wanted to make some noise in the playoffs. They sat and watched the team this season and ultimately decided “Nah, nobody is out there that can play point guard. Let’s have Mosely start Gary Harris”. That doesn’t mean signing Klay Thompson or whoever to a large deal that accomplishes nothing. It means taking necessary risks on young(ish) guys through trade, still having something to prove, that might not necessarily be in advantageous situations elsewhere in the league.

They do none of those things.

[Knightro]

I hate that I think about it like this, but there’s been nothing at all in Jeff Weltman’s tenure in charge here that’s led me to believe he cares about anything other than “what decision can I make that will give me the absolute maximum runway to keep my job?”

The moment he pushes a chip towards the middle, then there’s actual expectations and subsequently actual consequences for not meeting those expectations.

But if you delay ever making a tough decision indefinitely, you buy yourself literal years of employment under the guise of “just wait until we make our move!”

But time is basically up. The Magic’s ability to improve their roster is going to be MUCH more challenging 12 months from now than it is right now.

But they don’t care. Don’t create expectations and you’ll never be criticized for not reaching them.

[SOUL]

But they don’t care. Don’t create expectations and you’ll never be criticized for not reaching them.

Didn't care their way into 50 wins with the 4th youngest roster in the league.

[Skybox]

Does anyone think Cole could get us another late frp or very early srp in this "weak draft"?

I just think getting off Cole's $13m and basically replacing some of the FA departures with a pair of older rookies makes SO much sense and is as risk-free as the FO could hope for. I actually really would miss Cole, and I don't think his deal is bad for what he is...I just think a couple of high-floor, even with relatively low-ceilings, guys for a combined half of the salary would have more UTILITY to this team as it evolves. Drafting 2 guys, in that vein, is nothing like last year's model - where we drafted two low floor, high upside, relatively raw kids...I would be opposed to adding 2 more ultra-raw 19yo's again. I look at guys like da Silva, Scheierman, Kolek, Shannon (also, check out Isaiah Crawford for a later srp, Sr. from La Tech, has Anthony Mason vibes) as step-in role players for the end of the active rotation (and possibly more). On the other hand, maybe Cole's salary is critical for matching in a bigger deal...but the likeliest trade partners - *POR, ATL, UTA...may not have any interest in Cole, based on their rosters.

*thinking Simons, Brogdon, Murray, Sexton as likely trade targets

[SOUL]

Front offices are allowed to miss on draft picks. Most are wrong more often then they are right. Every single one of them whiffs. Bamba was not only considered a top 5 guy, but there were tons of teams extremely high on him and he was a guy that a large majority of our fanbase felt he was worth taking the upside swing on, considering Vuc was slumping hard. We got a guy wrong that most pundits, fans, and other teams thought was the "right" pick at the time. **** happens. Now, if Paolo, Franz, Suggs, etc also turned out to be bad, that is easily a fireable offense.

The most annoying thing about that draft was winning at the end of the prior year against the Wizards and screwing our draft position.

Gary Harris has been underrated and important the last two years and has been a huge plus in starting lineups he's been in. He's extremely up-gradable at this point, but there's a reason why he just worked in so many lineups. I'm not sure why we had to trade a plus shooter that worked in most of our lineups?

You've also spent years calling Fultz trash (which is an opinion I'm not going to debate or defend, I'm indifferent) and... *checks notes*, that trash is going to get us a huge upgrade? Not to mention, Fultz was our only guard last year able to do point guardy things and was helpful. Theoretically, moving him at his peak and getting someone better would be great.. but who?

All of this sounds like the benefit of foresight being applied to not doing stuff in hindsight. It's just not how things work. Even the "not taking swings" in a free agency class we haven't even done yet.

They took low commitment/high reward swings in guys like Bol Bol and Goga and they both kinda worked out relative to 3rd string big expectations and realities for most teams. Didn't parlay it into anything beyond good play for a season for both most likely, but that is credit where credit is due. Doing it on a bigger scale is the next step.

[RichCollab]

Claxton and Klay would be amazing. The best three-point specialist and an All-NBA defensive center that's a lob threat? Home run.

Yep. I can get down with this lineup.

Math says NO…

57 million cap space with releasing cap holds Fultz, Garry, Ingles, Chuma, Goga, Moe

Klay 27mill
Claxton 25 mill
Fultz 2.5 mill
Beasley 2.5 mil
Mo Wag 8 mill Mid level exception

[SOUL]

The moment he pushes a chip towards the middle, then there’s actual expectations and subsequently actual consequences for not meeting those expectations.

But if you delay ever making a tough decision indefinitely, you buy yourself literal years of employment under the guise of “just wait until we make our move!”

Also, none of this is "wrong" .. but you're basically writing obituaries about **** that hasn't even happened yet. It's the beginning of free agency with no trades, no signings, nothing happening for 99% of teams outside of OKC-CHI. Guess who had the least amount of trades throughout the last 3 seasons? The Bulls. They made the first trade of the offseason. I'm sure their fans could've lamented another offseason of non-movement and treadmilling from AKME.. until it's the opposite. Maybe they have 3 more trades down the pipeline. Nothing from the past matters because seats get hot and cold all the time, and players also dictate movement.

The only difference is, we've had actual improvement and positive things happening here and our fans are still finding every way to **** on this team for some reason. We are still insanely early on this rebuild in the grand scheme of things, and right now is a very important time - nobody is debating that.

Our "inactivity" has led to 49 wins from an insanely young team with a capped offense and ironclad defense, which we now need to address to improve our offensive ceiling. We've identified guys we feel comfortable with as our young stars, as well as a couple of roleplayer vets who may stay beyond this season. We've could've won more around the margins or eked out value with certain guys more, but we haven't made any fatal errors yet. You could say the inactivity means there are no consequences to judge, but we failed our first rebuild by making trades that were terrible.

From this movement onward, inactivity could be a fatal error, 100% agreed, but we'll see what happens moving forward.

[Skybox]

Yep. I can get down with this lineup.

Math says NO…

57 million cap space with releasing cap holds Fultz, Garry, Ingles, Chuma, Goga, Moe

Klay 27mill
Claxton 25 mill
Fultz 2.5 mill
Beasley 2.5 mil
Mo Wag 8 mill Mid level exception

OK...that's pretty slick with Mo. I hate the idea of committing all of that money to a one-way Center, but, man the idea of Claxton anchoring Mose's defense is frightening. My dream pairing would be Murray at PG, with Claxton at C...basically no weak spots.

I'm down with your vision, but I don't think FO is this bold with ownership's cash going forward.

[Knightro]

But they don’t care. Don’t create expectations and you’ll never be criticized for not reaching them.

Didn't care their way into 50 wins with the 4th youngest roster in the league.

1. They didn’t win 50.

2. I’d argue they had those results in spite of their plan, not because of it.

Last year’s results were great, it was a fun season. But ultimately it was bad process. They could have gone further than they did or they could have better positioned themselves for this upcoming season and they did neither.

And I get that I sound like one of these people who can’t be pleased, but that’s ok with me. I have high expectations because I believe in the young core and don’t want to see these guys screw it up by just waiting for it to maybe happen rather than being proactive and actually trying to help it happen.

[SOUL]

Last year’s results were great, it was a fun season. But ultimately it was bad process. They could have gone further than they did or they could have better positioned themselves for this upcoming season and they did neither.

And I get that I sound like one of these people who can’t be pleased, but that’s ok with me. I have high expectations because I believe in the young core and don’t want to see these guys screw it up by just waiting for it to maybe happen rather than being proactive and actually trying to help it happen.

I don't care about the latter part, I love debating.

I guess I'm just confused about the process you're referring to. If you're saying Black and Jett should've been involved more, that will lead to less wins by just playing a bunch of young guys, which is the opposite of being proactive and surrounding Paolo/Franz with the best options to enhance their chances of winning or bring the most out of their skills. It also doesn't mean that because Black plays 5 more mpg or Jett gets some experience that they're suddenly viable options that are better than any free agent this year.

Those guys are investments that you get return from in a few years, I've already told you my thoughts on players logging 200-300 extra minutes or whatever and people thinking that means they're suddenly more equipped for a better season the following year. Tons of sophomore slumps from guys that logged a lot of minutes.

You're also referring to the Celtics a lot, who absolutely competed with vets while drafting and playing rookies, which you said we can't do both. Jaylen Brown only got 17 minutes his rookie year, Tatum only 10 FGA his rookie year, Grant and Robert Williams both with 15 or less minutes for a few years while being young contributors. Brown was 11 FGA or less for three years, in fact. They were absolutely playing young guys and figuring our pecking order for their future, while also trying to win.

The difference is, people want us to prioritize 5 young guys at once which is a recipe for disaster, and teams have shown that you can bring guys along slowly and at different speeds and it doesn't mean that things are a failure or it has to be all of them at once or trade them for better guys their rookie years. In fact, Grant and Robert Williams both had their values increase a lot from beyond their first years there before being moved.

I just think there's so much that may potentially happen that I'm not going to crap on them for a FA that hasn't happened yet, but I'm also not proclaiming that they'll 100% do what they should. I get that people aren't expecting much because of the past, but it's just not how I approach anything in life.