Official 2024-2025 Magic Trade ideas thread continued

[RichCollab]

Sexton and Simons is to much lack of defense. Simons isn’t a starter on a winning team

Man, how much more evidence do you need? Do you really think we’re going to eke out thrilling playoff wins while scoring 95 points often?
The idea of traffic cones is way overstated…team defense, especially when you’ve got 2 or more elite defenders already is the way. Simons is a 25yo freak athlete with 6’9 wingspan, who has never played for a defensive-minded backcourt in meaningful games…Mose can get him to improve 20% on D and he’s a potential All-Star complement to Paolo & Franz

https://youtu.be/7ss0rm0EAO0?si=KAjIxxC4yXFm7Ztl


Show hm this lol, that’s a 17 minute video on YouTube of every single 3 pointer Simons hit this season lol. Seventeen minutes of made 3’s how could anybody say this guy is not a starter on a winning team

I watched Simons a ton this year. He has as many games where he is disinterested and doesn’t even try.

I’m good adding Simons or Sexton. It’s needed. I personally think it’s wrong to add both.

[Skybox]

I think that’s Penny’s son Ashton next to him.

Simons makes all of the sense in the world here. At minimum as a sixth man, likely as a starter next to Suggs. I think his defense is overall fine, it’s nowhere near as bad as Trae or LaMelo.

I'm kind of leaning towards sixth man, with a total green light...I'd be happy with more of a true PG in the starting lineup that can hit open 3's, but take a backseat to Franz & Paolo at the same time...Cason Wallace would be the model, more so than Tyus - who is a really big compromise defensively, due to his size. I'd be interested in Davion Mitchell, but he's doing well in MIA. Either way, get Simons in here and try different combos.

I'd still like Tyus (as well as Simons), who is like a super Cojo, but not as tough...CoJo has impressed me with his attempts to slow down much bigger guys - he's overmatched on some switches but definitely game.

I'm not trying to sell Simons as a real PG...but PG enough to not watch the ball movement fall apart when he's on the court. He's a much better move than, say, Grayson Allen, Gary Trent, Hield-types, who are proven snipers but zero playmakers. We've seen those guys flounder here and we wonder why they aren't good shooters anymore...skills are #1, but the system can bury them. I like what I'm seeing from Caleb and TdS as inexpensive roster contributors. KCP shouldn't be starting and AB should be taking his minutes backing up Suggs anyway.

My ideal summer is two playmaking guards, with at least one of them capable of putting up 30pts if you dare him, as well as a bigger, more consistent starting center, so WCJ can be the best backup C in the NBA - instead of a mediocre unreliable undersized starter, who occasionally has great games. At the same time, KCP, Cole, Jett, Goga, maybe Isaac are all expendable or even desirable to remove from the payroll. Draft picks are nice, but not as important as players that are ready.

Wallace looks good mainly due to the car-pool effect; he plays with SGA and on a great team. AB is a better fit as our lead guard for a lot of reasons. 1. As a jumbo-guard playmaker his length fits our identify, 2. his hardest-to-teach traits (size, rim pressure, foul rate, vision, defensive feel) are already elite, 3. teachable traits (shooting mechanics, live-dribble reads) improve predictably with reps, 4. he has a higher ceiling if star-level creation is unlocked.

Why do I keep getting sucked into this?

-Our "identity" of long humans is overshadowed by our identity of crappy offense despite having two offensive superstar forwards (that's not easy to do)
-Wallace would score a lot more next to Suggs than he does next to SGA- who is on-ball all game
-projecting rim pressure, foul rate, and vision is fantasy statistical manipulation...if you just look at the resulting numbers. He doesn't score much.
-teachable traits shouldn't involve "fine tuning" giant issues like shooting, dribbling and passing for an NBA player, especially a high pick
-you know I love AB, but you're describing a different player

[basketballRob]

This most likely scenario is that they do nothing and just get healthy. I don't think it's fair to Cole to keep him here

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app

[eyriq]

Why do I keep getting sucked into this?

-Our "identity" of long humans is overshadowed by our identity of crappy offense despite having two offensive superstar forwards (that's not easy to do)
-Wallace would score a lot more next to Suggs than he does next to SGA- who is on-ball all game
-projecting rim pressure, foul rate, and vision is fantasy statistical manipulation...if you just look at the resulting numbers. He doesn't score much.
-teachable traits shouldn't involve "fine tuning" giant issues like shooting, dribbling and passing for an NBA player, especially a high pick
-you know I love AB, but you're describing a different player

AB's paint touches and foul generation directly address our biggest weakness ("crappy offense"); Wallace does not. Foul rate, vision and size are predictive and already present; shooting touch is improving. History supports the bet on AB's development. Swapping a 6-7 creator for a 6-3 3-D guard duplicates Suggs and shrinks the lineup, reversing the "long humans" advantage without fixing spacing.

Anyway, the player you are describing IS AB, just projected two season forward on the most statistically reliable indicators. We are better served developing that in-house than paying to import a smaller guard whose strengths we already possess.

[Skybox]

Why do I keep getting sucked into this?

-Our "identity" of long humans is overshadowed by our identity of crappy offense despite having two offensive superstar forwards (that's not easy to do)
-Wallace would score a lot more next to Suggs than he does next to SGA- who is on-ball all game
-projecting rim pressure, foul rate, and vision is fantasy statistical manipulation...if you just look at the resulting numbers. He doesn't score much.
-teachable traits shouldn't involve "fine tuning" giant issues like shooting, dribbling and passing for an NBA player, especially a high pick
-you know I love AB, but you're describing a different player

AB's paint touches and foul generation directly address our biggest weakness ("crappy offense"); Wallace does not. Foul rate, vision and size are predictive and already present; shooting touch is improving. History supports the bet on AB's development. Swapping a 6-7 creator for a 6-3 3-D guard duplicates Suggs and shrinks the lineup, reversing the "long humans" advantage without fixing spacing.

I agree and if we had a 6'7 creator...I wouldn't trade him, he'd be perfect for us.

[eyriq]

Why do I keep getting sucked into this?

-Our "identity" of long humans is overshadowed by our identity of crappy offense despite having two offensive superstar forwards (that's not easy to do)
-Wallace would score a lot more next to Suggs than he does next to SGA- who is on-ball all game
-projecting rim pressure, foul rate, and vision is fantasy statistical manipulation...if you just look at the resulting numbers. He doesn't score much.
-teachable traits shouldn't involve "fine tuning" giant issues like shooting, dribbling and passing for an NBA player, especially a high pick
-you know I love AB, but you're describing a different player

AB's paint touches and foul generation directly address our biggest weakness ("crappy offense"); Wallace does not. Foul rate, vision and size are predictive and already present; shooting touch is improving. History supports the bet on AB's development. Swapping a 6-7 creator for a 6-3 3-D guard duplicates Suggs and shrinks the lineup, reversing the "long humans" advantage without fixing spacing.

I agree and if we had a 6'7 creator...I wouldn't trade him, he'd be perfect for us.

The funny thing here is that creator isn't even eye-test fluff, there are concrete workload and skill markers. 19.6% usage (63rd percentile), assist ratio 22.1% (74th percentile), ast:tov 1.7 (51st ratio), on-ball scoring per-36 4.1 (79th percentile), rim pressure/foul draw 31.8% (79th percentile).

Creators typically sacrifice efficiency and turnover rate in service of shot creation for the group, and Mosely asks AB to bend the first line of defense because 1. no other guard above 18% usage draws > 0.250 FTr, 2. our half-court eFG is terrible and rim attacks or foul trips are the quickest fix, and 3. at 6-7 AB can throw over-the-top skip passes the roster otherwise lacks.

Usage + assist share + on-ball scoring volume + rim pressure form the playmaking package and AB checks all 4 boxes.

[Skybox]

So, Mose is reining in AB's offensive impact..."AB, we're getting way too many points from our backcourt. I know you're a great scorer but...Just keep handing it to Paolo when you cross halfcourt" "You've gotten your 3 assists for the game, stop it"

I remember the genius suggestion last year that Fultz's great skill was "deferring"...just what you want out of your lead ballhandler.

[eyriq]

So, Mose is reining in AB's offensive impact..."AB, we're getting way too many points from our backcourt. I know you're a great scorer but...Just keep handing it to Paolo when you cross halfcourt" "You've gotten your 3 assists for the game, stop it"

I remember the genius suggestion last year that Fultz's great skill was "deferring"...just what you want out of your lead ballhandler.

You aren't being genuine right now and are putting words in my mouth. Also, wtf are you talking about with Fultz?

[CLosP]

I would like to have one guard in the lineup to score/distribute & another guard off the bench that can shoot. Ideally you keep Suggs & AB so they can play alongside those guys as the POA defender. Trading Cole/KCP plus whatever to get those two type of guys & a cheap center or even a rookie big man would be fine.

[VFX]

Yeah AB is a great creator. He just can’t share the floor with our two star forwards and Corey Joseph starts over him. Lol. What is this argument even?

Look, I like AB. I like him more than most of the players acquired in the Weltman era. But people are just straight up lying about his skillset at this point as a hill to die on for no reason.

He’s a wing defender/slasher to the rim that can occasionally hit spot up 3’s in a clinch. Hes never even the best “creator” on the floor when he’s coming off the bench let alone starting. You HOPE and WISH his skillset fit perfectly much like Weltman did when he drafted him.

Let’s chill on this narrative that he’s the future starting point guard on a team that currently has one of the worst offenses in the league when everybody with eyes is claiming “Orlando really needs a point guard badly”. That is telling and it’s coming from non homers.

[eyriq]

Yeah AB is a great creator. He just can’t share the floor with our two star forwards and Corey Joseph starts over him. Lol. What is this argument even?

Look, I like AB. I like him more than most of the players acquired in the Weltman era. But we people are just straight up lying about his skillset at this point as a hill to die on for no reason.

He’s a wing defender/slasher to the rim that can occasionally hit spot up 3’s in a clinch. Hes never even the best “creator” on the floor when he’s coming off the bench let alone starting. You HOPE and WISH his skillset fit perfectly much like Weltman did when he drafted him.

Let’s chill on this narrative that he’s the future starting point guard on a team that currently has one of the worst offenses in the league when everybody with eyes is claiming “Orlando really needs a point guard badly”. That is telling and it’s coming from non homers.

You are overreacting to CoJo starting and ignoring clear trends in AB's development. The PG Orlando needs is a developed AB.

[three3d]

Can you imagine a world where they pass up on 6’9” pg Egor Demin in the draft lol

[eyriq]

Can you imagine a world where they pass up on 6’9” pg Egor Demin in the draft lol

We need shooting IMO, I have McNeeley and Clayton ahead of him, personally

[three3d]

Or better yet 6’9” pg Egor Demon followed up by 7 foot point/center Danny Wolf lol. I’m already hearing all the talk about length and size OMG.

[VFX]

Can you imagine a world where they pass up on 6’9” pg Egor Demin in the draft lol

We need shooting IMO, I have McNeeley and Clayton ahead of him, personally

KCP and Gary Harris were the shooting they signed that you are looking for. Jalen Suggs shot .400 last season and the offense sucked.

Jett Howard was the guy they drafted as a “shooter” you are wanting.

Either Weltman is the worst evaluator of talent translating to what is missing with this roster, or strictly a shooting guard with a “shooting” skillset doesn’t actually work in the system he built for lack of creation everywhere else on the floor.

It amazes me that people still don’t understand this.

[eyriq]

Can you imagine a world where they pass up on 6’9” pg Egor Demin in the draft lol

We need shooting IMO, I have McNeeley and Clayton ahead of him, personally

KCP and Gary Harris were the shooting they signed that you are looking for. Jalen Suggs shot .400 last season and the offense sucked.

Jett Howard was the guy they drafted as a “shooter” you are wanting.

Either Weltman is the worst evaluator of talent translating to what is missing with this roster, or strictly a shooting guard with a “shooting” skillset doesn’t actually work in the system he built for lack of creation everywhere else on the floor.

It amazes me that people still don’t understand this.

I think three-point specialists would make a world of difference over spot up shooters.

[Duke4life831]

Yeah AB is a great creator. He just can’t share the floor with our two star forwards and Corey Joseph starts over him. Lol. What is this argument even?

Look, I like AB. I like him more than most of the players acquired in the Weltman era. But people are just straight up lying about his skillset at this point as a hill to die on for no reason.

He’s a wing defender/slasher to the rim that can occasionally hit spot up 3’s in a clinch. Hes never even the best “creator” on the floor when he’s coming off the bench let alone starting. You HOPE and WISH his skillset fit perfectly much like Weltman did when he drafted him.

Let’s chill on this narrative that he’s the future starting point guard on a team that currently has one of the worst offenses in the league when everybody with eyes is claiming “Orlando really needs a point guard badly”. That is telling and it’s coming from non homers.

Ya AB has never been a great creator dating back to high school. He's just never been that dynamic on ball. I dont mean this as a shot towards AB, but I think the clear hope for him is Dyson Daniels. Neither guy has ever really shown a dynamic on ball ability. They're both huge guards or good sized wings. Both are solid decision makers as secondary ball handlers. And both project to be elite defenders. Daniels made that jump to being a truly elite defender this year, I think the hope is AB has a similar 3rd year jump.

Both him and Daniels went top 10 with the hope they would progress into being legit on ball creators to go with their size, athleticism, and defense. I just think its pretty obvious when you watch both, they just dont have that level of dynamic on ball creativity. And its pretty damn rare to see someone's on ball ability and handle, go from pretty average to dynamic.

It was also the same with Dyson in New Orleans. If he was a legit high level creator, it would be pretty easy to rack up assists and be a weapon creating on ball when he got to play off of Zion, Ingram, and CJ. Same for AB. If he showed high level creativity on ball, any coach would use him to get easier shots for Paolo and Franz.

He just like Dyson, just clearly lack a dynamic ability on ball. Then add in the inconsistent jumper, ya you kind of get what you see with AB and Dyson so far.

[VFX]

Yeah AB is a great creator. He just can’t share the floor with our two star forwards and Corey Joseph starts over him. Lol. What is this argument even?

Look, I like AB. I like him more than most of the players acquired in the Weltman era. But people are just straight up lying about his skillset at this point as a hill to die on for no reason.

He’s a wing defender/slasher to the rim that can occasionally hit spot up 3’s in a clinch. Hes never even the best “creator” on the floor when he’s coming off the bench let alone starting. You HOPE and WISH his skillset fit perfectly much like Weltman did when he drafted him.

Let’s chill on this narrative that he’s the future starting point guard on a team that currently has one of the worst offenses in the league when everybody with eyes is claiming “Orlando really needs a point guard badly”. That is telling and it’s coming from non homers.

Ya AB has never been a great creator dating back to high school. He's just never been that dynamic on ball. I dont mean this as a shot towards AB, but I think the clear hope for him is Dyson Daniels. Neither guy has ever really shown a dynamic on ball ability. They're both huge guards or good sized wings. Both are solid decision makers as secondary ball handlers. And both project to be elite defenders. Daniels made that jump to being a truly elite defender this year, I think the hope is AB has a similar 3rd year jump.

Both him and Daniels went top 10 with the hope they would progress into being legit on ball creators to go with their size, athleticism, and defense. I just think its pretty obvious when you watch both, they just dont have that level of dynamic on ball creativity. And its pretty damn rare to see someone's on ball ability and handle, go from pretty average to dynamic.

It was also the same with Dyson in New Orleans. If he was a legit high level creator, it would be pretty easy to rack up assists and be a weapon creating on ball when he got to play off of Zion, Ingram, and CJ. Same for AB. If he showed high level creativity on ball, any coach would use him to get easier shots for Paolo and Franz.

He just like Dyson, just clearly lack a dynamic ability on ball. Then add in the inconsistent jumper, ya you kind of get what you see with AB and Dyson so far.

Thanks impartial forum mod with no clear agenda and homerism.

Yeah, it’s just obvious at this point he isn’t this savior for Orlando at point guard for the reasons you’ve stated. He’s a nice player that ideally you want to keep and develop alongside Paolo and Franz to keep the defense near the top of the charts.

[OrlandoDream]

Yeah AB is a great creator. He just can’t share the floor with our two star forwards and Corey Joseph starts over him. Lol. What is this argument even?

Look, I like AB. I like him more than most of the players acquired in the Weltman era. But people are just straight up lying about his skillset at this point as a hill to die on for no reason.

He’s a wing defender/slasher to the rim that can occasionally hit spot up 3’s in a clinch. Hes never even the best “creator” on the floor when he’s coming off the bench let alone starting. You HOPE and WISH his skillset fit perfectly much like Weltman did when he drafted him.

Let’s chill on this narrative that he’s the future starting point guard on a team that currently has one of the worst offenses in the league when everybody with eyes is claiming “Orlando really needs a point guard badly”. That is telling and it’s coming from non homers.

Been saying this forever and its insane this coaching staff still forces him to be a PG. He plays his best as a wing a 3D type one. He just cant hit 3s consistently.....once he does he will be more valuable. Im fine keeping him but realize he has value around the league. If Chi wants him for White, you don't hesitate.

[VFX]

We need shooting IMO, I have McNeeley and Clayton ahead of him, personally

KCP and Gary Harris were the shooting they signed that you are looking for. Jalen Suggs shot .400 last season and the offense sucked.

Jett Howard was the guy they drafted as a “shooter” you are wanting.

Either Weltman is the worst evaluator of talent translating to what is missing with this roster, or strictly a shooting guard with a “shooting” skillset doesn’t actually work in the system he built for lack of creation everywhere else on the floor.

It amazes me that people still don’t understand this.

I think three-point specialists would make a world of difference over spot up shooters.

You could convince me that Walter Clayton is one of the right selections based on his ability to create shots and spread the floor from outside. He is more than just a 3 specialist in that regard.

I just question whether he is a point guard, capable of making plays for others, and not actually an undersized shooting guard at the next level.

If Weltman selects someone like Demin over him it means he’s looking for more playmaking and less of a 3 point outlet.

Trading for a guy like Simons negates the need for Clayton. (Trying to keep this to trades)