Replacement thread for Head Coach: updated poll

JF5 · Post #41 » by **JF5** » Fri Mar 2, 2018 11:22 pm

I personally wouldn't fire him unless there is an actual upgrade...

Hiring Stackhouse seems like downgrade (IMO). At least Vogel has NBA/Playoff experience... I feel if he had a better roster he'd be a better off but this team is filled with 1-2 fringe starters at best surrounded by a bunch of rotational players who don't fit together.

Airgordon00 · Post #42 » by **Airgordon00** » Fri Mar 2, 2018 11:22 pm

What about jameer Nelson for head coach if we fire Vogel? I just saw a quote from Stan the man saying he could be a coach as soon as he retires.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

AdamTheGreek · Post #43 » by **AdamTheGreek** » Fri Mar 2, 2018 11:59 pm

Frank's a nice guy (and an Eagles fan), but in 2 years he's made very few actual in-game adjustments, which means very very few successful in-game adjustments. Since the calendar flipped to 2018, none of that matters as the season basically ended December 31st.

I do think Stackhouse could potentially be an upgrade, but it's not a guarantee. Man has paved quite the path for himself through the coaching ranks and has earned a ton of respect.

If there's any doubt from WeHam that Vogel shouldn't be their guy moving forward, they need to ditch him at the end of the season.

Does that mean we're quickly switching to 'win now' mode in '18-'19? Probably not. It could be that - if we do hire Stackhouse - we tell Jerry to coach 'em up for a season but that Summer 2019 (when Biyombo's deal becomes movable) is when the roster truly starts looking like a 'win now' type of team.

neuraldarwinism · Post #44 » by **neuraldarwinism** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 1:25 am

i dont know anything about his coaching abilities, but sure, why not at this point.

Post #45 » by **Howard Mass** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 2:04 am

When The Magic were interviewing GM candidates last year, they told them they had to stick with Frank Vogel.

A GM usually likes to hire their own coach.

In his first year, the roster was badly put together and no one blamed Vogel.

This year they started off well and then collapsed. Injuries hurt but there were other factors.

I think the problem here is the losing culture and mentality that has developed these past 6 seasons.

Vogel is not a bad coach but Weltman probably wants to hire his own guy and it might be good to bring in a new coach for this roster which will likely undergo some real changes this summer.

Jerry Stackhouse is a hot coaching candidate. However, a few coaches get interviewed during the process and nothing is ever a sure thing.

Remember when a lot of people thought Brian Shaw would get the job in 2012?

A lot can happen but I see a scenario where Vogel and The Magic just decide to mutually part ways.

Regardless, things need to change as no one wants to go through this crap for a 7th straight season. It's disgraceful.

boricua_basket · Post #46 » by **boricua_basket** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 4:13 am

That is top 10 dumbes things I've heard in my life. Where and what exactly is the argument? The player may actually be a better coach than the nerd who studied history of the sport. The player actually be a better fit, having been in the trenches. I have never understood what exactly the "vast" difference between coach and player is?

Xatticus wrote:We have a coach at present and I wouldn't dump him until we have a compelling replacement. The prospect of Stackhouse as our next HC doesn't really excite me. I'm not really one to defend Vogel, but landing the proper replacement is exponentially more important than getting rid of Vogel, which we can do any time we want. I would certainly be active in identifying options, but you only get to hire a coach once every few years. If you are a GM that is actually hiring them that often, then your own job is probably in jeopardy.

I'm not a big fan of hiring former players that don't have an abundance of experience. Familiarity and comfort wouldn't factor into my hiring decision at all.

Player and coach are vastly different professions. One doesn't provide the foundation for the career in the other. Stackhouse's resume is exceptionally short.

Post #47 » by **FFBlitzace** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 4:35 am

boricua_basket wrote:That is top 10 dumbes things I've heard in my life.

What were the other 9?

Orium · Post #48 » by **Orium** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 5:10 am

Everything about Vogel has been screaming incompetence for years now, and it's been particularly putrid this year. I'll be glad to see him go. Stackhouse on the other hand, is intriguing. One of the major flaws of our team has been developing a proper hierarchy of talent, so every player has been subtly competing against each other for the top spot. I think Stackhouse could come in and fill that void. He's the type of guy all the players on the roster would immediately respect, which is something I think Vogel lost a long time ago.

Xatticus · Post #49 » by **Xatticus** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 8:48 am

boricua_basket wrote:That is top 10 dumbes things I've heard in my life. Where and what exactly is the argument? The player may actually be a better coach than the nerd who studied history of the sport. The player actually be a better fit, having been in the trenches. I have never understood what exactly the "vast" difference between coach and player is?

Xatticus wrote:We have a coach at present and I wouldn't dump him until we have a compelling replacement. The prospect of Stackhouse as our next HC doesn't really excite me. I'm not really one to defend Vogel, but landing the proper replacement is exponentially more important than getting rid of Vogel, which we can do any time we want. I would certainly be active in identifying options, but you only get to hire a coach once every few years. If you are a GM that is actually hiring them that often, then your own job is probably in jeopardy.

I'm not a big fan of hiring former players that don't have an abundance of experience. Familiarity and comfort wouldn't factor into my hiring decision at all.

Player and coach are vastly different professions. One doesn't provide the foundation for the career in the other. Stackhouse's resume is exceptionally short.

For the same reason that knowing how to drive a car and sit in traffic doesn't qualify an individual to run the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Skybox · Post #50 » by **Skybox** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 12:38 pm

Stackhouse is only interesting because he's not here now.

What about Forcier? Isn't he supposed to be the next great coaching prospect? Last year there was NO coaching turnover in NBA (which is nearly unique) or he would have been somewhere...will we be watching Forcier go somewhere while we hire someone unproven? I just assumed he was a head coach in waiting...(I honestly don't know a ton about Forcier either-I just think something new and shiny is always better to some).

I think it's awful, in general, to churn coaches like we have, particularly as it relates to young guys developing (not coincidentally our M.O.)...I was pumped when Vogel became available, but I don't see anything good from him. This might not be a bad time in our rebuild to inject some new vision and excitement into a new young core.

drsd · Post #51 » by **drsd** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 4:29 pm

Xatticus wrote:For the same reason that knowing how to drive a car and sit in traffic doesn't qualify an individual to run the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration.

Or being a pilot as a qualification of running the FAA.

..

drsd · Post #52 » by **drsd** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 4:30 pm

Howard Mass wrote:A lot can happen but I see a scenario where Vogel and The Magic just decide to mutually part ways.

Coach Vogel seems broken to me when he gives interviews after a loss. I can see him simply resigning. He will get another NBA gig (this is different than Skiles, for example).

..

The Effect · Post #53 » by **The Effect** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 10:56 pm

I always assumed that when we fire Vogel, it would be for Forcier. Also, i never even knew that stack was a coach....

With that said, yesterday and today i looked up stack as a coach, and ill take it!
For me, first and foremost, a coach needs to be a leader, a guy that guys will follow, you can tell from videos he has that kind of respect from his players. Second, he knows the game. That was a given considering how long he was in the NBA. You dont play in the NBA for 18 years without learning the game past a purely physical point of view. You see guys who have great careers but once the athletic ability is gone, they arent good enough mentally to hang around. Add in that he was coached\mentored by some of the best coaches to ever do it (Dean Smith, larry brown, Doug Collins, Rick Carlisle, Don nelson, Avery Johnson, Spo, dwane casey) and im sure learned something from all those guys

Watch on YouTube

After watching those videos (theres 100+ post game interviews on youtube), i actually cant wait for this to happen. To me THATS a coach, and hopefully this is our time to get the up and coming coach, not just the next retread in line

MagicStarwipe · Post #54 » by **MagicStarwipe** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 11:49 pm

Wont matter much if we don't get rid of at least Vuc (hopefully Fournier too) and change our culture. But Vogel is definitely trash.

NickAnderson · Post #55 » by **NickAnderson** » Sat Mar 3, 2018 11:56 pm

I think this a **** show waiting to happen

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Dennis Reynolds · Post #56 » by **Dennis Reynolds** » Sun Mar 4, 2018 5:58 pm

npiper17 wrote:
Dennis Reynolds wrote:Found this on redditˇˇ

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/which-nba-team-is-wronged-by-the-refs-the-most/

Absolutely no excuses for Vogel and the awful job he has done here.

Is this not just a case of the Magic not being within three points in the last two mins of a game too often?

I get the point you're trying to make but it sure as hell doesn't make Vogel look any better. Not only we're terrible, but we also struggle to make games close? Give that man a raise!

MoMM · Post #57 » by **MoMM** » Sun Mar 4, 2018 6:06 pm

Can't we just hire Stackhouse to be Lakeland's HC for now?

PennytoShaq · Post #58 » by **PennytoShaq** » Sun Mar 4, 2018 10:41 pm

Skybox wrote:Stackhouse is only interesting because he's not here now.

Not really. He is interesting because he is one of the top coaching candidates once things open up. Why is he interesting to us? He worked directly with Weltman in TOR and worked with Hammond in the past in Detroit. He also has displayed a rather nice balance of X and O's while also being a player's coach. He is lauded for his ability to develop young players.

All of these things make sense for the Magic because I think it is safe to say we will be rolling with a core of AG/Isaac, a young draft pick and possibly Mario next season.

Do I think he is a slam dunk as a great coach? No, you can ever tell. But I think the new regime wants their guys here, not someone else's. And that is why I do not think that Forcier will be sticking around as HC.

PennytoShaq · Post #59 » by **PennytoShaq** » Sun Mar 4, 2018 10:41 pm

MoMM wrote:Can't we just hire Stackhouse to be Lakeland's HC for now?

He coaches Toronto's Gleague team now and has won them the Gleague title. Not sure why he would want to make a parallel move when other teams will probably offer him a HC job.

OrlandoDream · Post #60 » by **OrlandoDream** » Mon Mar 5, 2018 12:52 am

Vogel isnt perfect but do we seriously think that another JV is the answer? If there is gonna be a coaching change, Id give the rains to Forcier.

Whom do you want as head coach?