Wait, you said AG would not play SF this year

[pepe1991]

Gordon suffers from same problem that SVG once called Howard for.
He said that there is dissconect between player Howard is and player Howard wants to be.

[Skybox]

It’s pretty obvious that the player Gordon *wants* to be and the player Gordon actually is aren’t the same.

I think Gordon envisions himself as a superstar wing player. Someone who can take the ball beyond the 3PT line, attack his defender 1 on 1 and get buckets.

What’s frustrating as a fan is that he’s actually *really good* at a lot of other things - cutting, running the floor, rebounding, defending (when he’s locked in), catch and shoot, etc.

But those things aren’t sexy. He wants to be a prototypical NBA star wing who gets buckets.

His dribbling has improved a ton. He has clearly worked on it and has a variety of fancy crossovers and through the legs moves that he’s comfortable with, but he just still hasn’t figured out how to turn that into a functional way to beat a defender.

Far too often Gordon dribbles without actually moving forward or around anyone and ends up shooting a wild shot on the move with very little chance of success.

I love the kid. The Magic are clearly committed to him. Now hopefully Clifford can get him to realize that he can still be an all-star caliber player without a ton of overdribbling.

Post if the week

Couldn’t agree more

Steve really need to clean up his game

Like if Dwight embraced the Bill Russell role - instead of the Wilt role...great observation above about AG dribbling at the perimeter without breaking anyone down. He's very good just not at that...maybe someday, but I'd really rather see him roam the baseline, catch lobs, put back everything, humiliate opposing wings on D, etc.

[Skin]

Gordon suffers from same problem that SVG once called Howard for.
He said that there is dissconect between player Howard is and player Howard wants to be.

Howard needed a PG to make him look good.

Gordon... and the whole team in fact, need a PG to make sense of this team. Until then, everyone will be doing their own thing and stumbling over their own feet.

[JF5]

Gordon suffers from same problem that SVG once called Howard for.
He said that there is dissconect between player Howard is and player Howard wants to be.

Howard needed a PG to make him look good.

Gordon... and the whole team in fact, need a PG to make sense of this team. Until then, everyone will be doing their own thing and stumbling over their own feet.

That's true but talking specifically Gordon he just never had learning curve/IQ to become the player that people wanted him to become. He was basically drafted off his athletic profile in hope he'd become something more. The problem that is plaguing him is that if he couldn't become more than just a role player he'd be in tweener oblivion which he's at now. Granted we're in an era of "positionless" basketball Gordon possesses the skill that would make him thrive unless he was on a team like Rockets, Milwaukee, or Lakers where he'd thrive around rosters which would hide his lack of ball skills/inconsistent shooting/and consistent guarding of bigger forwards.

[Skin]

Gordon suffers from same problem that SVG once called Howard for.
He said that there is dissconect between player Howard is and player Howard wants to be.

Howard needed a PG to make him look good.

Gordon... and the whole team in fact, need a PG to make sense of this team. Until then, everyone will be doing their own thing and stumbling over their own feet.

That's true but talking specifically Gordon he just never had learning curve/IQ to become the player that people wanted him to become. He was basically drafted off his athletic profile in hope he'd become something more. The problem that is plaguing him is that if he couldn't become more than just a role player he'd be in tweener oblivion which he's at now. Granted we're in an era of "positionless" basketball Gordon possesses the skill that would make him thrive unless he was on a team like Rockets, Milwaukee, or Lakers where he'd thrive around rosters which would hide his lack of ball skills/inconsistent shooting/and consistent guarding of bigger forwards.

I don't know about learning curve... I think he's shown improvement every year and this year has just begun, so let's see where he's at at the end of the year before we start suggesting that he's plateaued and reached his peak.

He might be trying too hard with this new contract and trying to meet expectations, but this team is still being plagued by the same thing that's plagued them since the Dwightmare.

BAD TEAM CHEMISTRY

At some point, I hope WeHam figures it out, but until we do, nothing will significantly improve for Gordon or the rest of the team for that matter. We'll just continue to watch the nightly Evan and Vuc Show like groundhogs day and pretend that's going to work.

[YosemiteSam]

Howard needed a PG to make him look good.

Gordon... and the whole team in fact, need a PG to make sense of this team. Until then, everyone will be doing their own thing and stumbling over their own feet.

That's true but talking specifically Gordon he just never had learning curve/IQ to become the player that people wanted him to become. He was basically drafted off his athletic profile in hope he'd become something more. The problem that is plaguing him is that if he couldn't become more than just a role player he'd be in tweener oblivion which he's at now. Granted we're in an era of "positionless" basketball Gordon possesses the skill that would make him thrive unless he was on a team like Rockets, Milwaukee, or Lakers where he'd thrive around rosters which would hide his lack of ball skills/inconsistent shooting/and consistent guarding of bigger forwards.

I don't know about learning curve... I think he's shown improvement every year and this year has just begun, so let's see where he's at at the end of the year before we start suggesting that he's plateaued and reached his peak.

He might be trying too hard with this new contract and trying to meet expectations, but this team is still being plagued by the same thing that's plagued them since the Dwightmare.

BAD TEAM CHEMISTRY

At some point, I hope WeHam figures it out, but until we do, nothing will significantly improve for Gordon or the rest of the team for that matter. We'll just continue to watch the nightly Evan and Vuc Show like groundhogs day and pretend that's going to work.

Acknowledging Vuc and Evan’s big roles in the bad team chemistry, isn’t it possible Gordon is also a cause of it and not just a victim? He’s been here a long time too.

[pepe1991]

Howard needed a PG to make him look good.

Gordon... and the whole team in fact, need a PG to make sense of this team. Until then, everyone will be doing their own thing and stumbling over their own feet.

That's true but talking specifically Gordon he just never had learning curve/IQ to become the player that people wanted him to become. He was basically drafted off his athletic profile in hope he'd become something more. The problem that is plaguing him is that if he couldn't become more than just a role player he'd be in tweener oblivion which he's at now. Granted we're in an era of "positionless" basketball Gordon possesses the skill that would make him thrive unless he was on a team like Rockets, Milwaukee, or Lakers where he'd thrive around rosters which would hide his lack of ball skills/inconsistent shooting/and consistent guarding of bigger forwards.

I don't know about learning curve... I think he's shown improvement every year and this year has just begun, so let's see where he's at at the end of the year before we start suggesting that he's plateaued and reached his peak.

He might be trying too hard with this new contract and trying to meet expectations, but this team is still being plagued by the same thing that's plagued them since the Dwightmare.

BAD TEAM CHEMISTRY

At some point, I hope WeHam figures it out, but until we do, nothing will significantly improve for Gordon or the rest of the team for that matter. We'll just continue to watch the nightly Evan and Vuc Show like groundhogs day and pretend that's going to work.

I don't see much difference in his game today and in April of two years ago when he got back at PF.
Even by numbers he is almost idential player to that version of himself.

Also both Evan and him spent 5 years with Magic, it's not fair to call one chemistry killer and act like other is innocent puppy. Either all have fair share of blame for poor chemistry or non of them.

[Skin]

That's true but talking specifically Gordon he just never had learning curve/IQ to become the player that people wanted him to become. He was basically drafted off his athletic profile in hope he'd become something more. The problem that is plaguing him is that if he couldn't become more than just a role player he'd be in tweener oblivion which he's at now. Granted we're in an era of "positionless" basketball Gordon possesses the skill that would make him thrive unless he was on a team like Rockets, Milwaukee, or Lakers where he'd thrive around rosters which would hide his lack of ball skills/inconsistent shooting/and consistent guarding of bigger forwards.

I don't know about learning curve... I think he's shown improvement every year and this year has just begun, so let's see where he's at at the end of the year before we start suggesting that he's plateaued and reached his peak.

He might be trying too hard with this new contract and trying to meet expectations, but this team is still being plagued by the same thing that's plagued them since the Dwightmare.

BAD TEAM CHEMISTRY

At some point, I hope WeHam figures it out, but until we do, nothing will significantly improve for Gordon or the rest of the team for that matter. We'll just continue to watch the nightly Evan and Vuc Show like groundhogs day and pretend that's going to work.

I don't see much difference in his game today and in April of two years ago when he got back at PF.
Even by numbers he is almost idential player to that version of himself.

Also both Evan and him spent 5 years with Magic, it's not fair to call one chemistry killer and act like other is innocent puppy. Either all have fair share of blame for poor chemistry or non of them.

Meh. We call it the Evan and Vuc Show for a reason. They are chemistry killers.

[pepe1991]

I don't know about learning curve... I think he's shown improvement every year and this year has just begun, so let's see where he's at at the end of the year before we start suggesting that he's plateaued and reached his peak.

He might be trying too hard with this new contract and trying to meet expectations, but this team is still being plagued by the same thing that's plagued them since the Dwightmare.

BAD TEAM CHEMISTRY

At some point, I hope WeHam figures it out, but until we do, nothing will significantly improve for Gordon or the rest of the team for that matter. We'll just continue to watch the nightly Evan and Vuc Show like groundhogs day and pretend that's going to work.

I don't see much difference in his game today and in April of two years ago when he got back at PF.
Even by numbers he is almost idential player to that version of himself.

Also both Evan and him spent 5 years with Magic, it's not fair to call one chemistry killer and act like other is innocent puppy. Either all have fair share of blame for poor chemistry or non of them.

Meh. We call it the Evan and Vuc Show for a reason. They are chemistry killers.

We call it Vuc and Evan show because they are 2 of 3 Magic players capable of scoring over 7 ppg.

[Skin]

That's true but talking specifically Gordon he just never had learning curve/IQ to become the player that people wanted him to become. He was basically drafted off his athletic profile in hope he'd become something more. The problem that is plaguing him is that if he couldn't become more than just a role player he'd be in tweener oblivion which he's at now. Granted we're in an era of "positionless" basketball Gordon possesses the skill that would make him thrive unless he was on a team like Rockets, Milwaukee, or Lakers where he'd thrive around rosters which would hide his lack of ball skills/inconsistent shooting/and consistent guarding of bigger forwards.

I don't know about learning curve... I think he's shown improvement every year and this year has just begun, so let's see where he's at at the end of the year before we start suggesting that he's plateaued and reached his peak.

He might be trying too hard with this new contract and trying to meet expectations, but this team is still being plagued by the same thing that's plagued them since the Dwightmare.

BAD TEAM CHEMISTRY

At some point, I hope WeHam figures it out, but until we do, nothing will significantly improve for Gordon or the rest of the team for that matter. We'll just continue to watch the nightly Evan and Vuc Show like groundhogs day and pretend that's going to work.

Acknowledging Vuc and Evan’s big roles in the bad team chemistry, isn’t it possible Gordon is also a cause of it and not just a victim? He’s been here a long time too.

Sure. There are no winners when bad chemistry infects the team.

But I don't think we want to repeat the Oladipo case all over again. Half the forum was convinced he was the problem because Oladipo couldn't shoot consistently and the player he wanted to be and the player he actually was weren’t the same at the time. I fought the current then and I'll fight the current now.

There are issues with the team, but it takes taking a step back before we can take a real step forward.

[Skin]

I don't see much difference in his game today and in April of two years ago when he got back at PF.
Even by numbers he is almost idential player to that version of himself.

Also both Evan and him spent 5 years with Magic, it's not fair to call one chemistry killer and act like other is innocent puppy. Either all have fair share of blame for poor chemistry or non of them.

Meh. We call it the Evan and Vuc Show for a reason. They are chemistry killers.

We call it Vuc and Evan show because they are 2 of 3 Magic players capable of scoring over 7 ppg.

Not interested in winning. More interested in development.

[pepe1991]

Meh. We call it the Evan and Vuc Show for a reason. They are chemistry killers.

We call it Vuc and Evan show because they are 2 of 3 Magic players capable of scoring over 7 ppg.

Not interested in winning. More interested in development.

But how many min players need to develop?
Isaac is starter ,plays average at best.
Gordon is starter for years, pretty much hit his ceiling 2 years ago.
Bamba is getting 18-20 mpg and did not play well since opening night.
Who else you want to give min to? Briscoe? That kid was average in VTB league let alone nba.
Grant? Guy has top 10 worst PER of active players in whole league and is 26 yeras old.

Iwundu isn't nba player, Frazier is his backup.

I'm not saying Bamba or Isaac should ever be DNP guys ,but they are not. They get constant min and have moderate usage rate. It's on them that they don't deliver most of the nights.

[Skin]

We call it Vuc and Evan show because they are 2 of 3 Magic players capable of scoring over 7 ppg.

Not interested in winning. More interested in development.

But how many min players need to develop?
Isaac is starter ,plays average at best.
Gordon is starter for years, pretty much hit his ceiling 2 years ago.
Bamba is getting 18-20 mpg and did not play well since opening night.
Who else you want to give min to? Briscoe? That kid was average in VTB league let alone nba.
Grant? Guy has top 10 worst PER of active players in whole league and is 26 yeras old.

Iwundu isn't nba player, Frazier is his backup.

I'm not saying Bamba or Isaac should ever be DNP guys ,but they are not. They get constant min and have moderate usage rate. It's on them that they don't deliver most of the nights.

Screw the immediate results! That's the problem. People are too anxious to win and not let the process play out.

Give em as much minutes as they can physically handle. Game plan around the young guys using their strengths. Run plays for them.
Give them high expectations but also a long leash. Put them on match ups that they learn from. Help them find their sweet spots on the floor. Help them learn go to moves. Play the young guys together so they can begin to build long term chemistry. Let them figure out what works and what doesn't. Don't harp on the lows, magnify the highs. Let the positive progressions stack up on one another. Coach needs to be a cheerleader, not a yeller.

The only vets we need around here are the ones like T-Ross who understand that our investments are on the young guys, who support our young guys on and off the court, and isn't going to be selfish as soon as they step out on the court.

[pepe1991]

Not interested in winning. More interested in development.

But how many min players need to develop?
Isaac is starter ,plays average at best.
Gordon is starter for years, pretty much hit his ceiling 2 years ago.
Bamba is getting 18-20 mpg and did not play well since opening night.
Who else you want to give min to? Briscoe? That kid was average in VTB league let alone nba.
Grant? Guy has top 10 worst PER of active players in whole league and is 26 yeras old.

Iwundu isn't nba player, Frazier is his backup.

I'm not saying Bamba or Isaac should ever be DNP guys ,but they are not. They get constant min and have moderate usage rate. It's on them that they don't deliver most of the nights.

Screw the immediate results! That's the problem. People are too anxious to win and not let the process play out.

Give em as much minutes as they can physically handle. Game plan around the young guys using their strengths. Run plays for them.
Give them high expectations but also a long leash. Put them on match ups that they learn from. Help them find their sweet spots on the floor. Help them learn go to moves. Play the young guys together so they can begin to build long term chemistry. Let them figure out what works and what doesn't. Don't harp on the lows, magnify the highs. Let the positive progressions stack up on one another. Coach needs to be a cheerleader, not a yeller.

The only vets we need around here are the ones like T-Ross who understand that our investments are on the young guys, who support our young guys on and off the court, and isn't going to be selfish as soon as they step out on the court.

As i said, i think they hold on trades because they don't want to hurt ticket sell.

btw how does Ross " understand investment of young guys" ? Guy goes in and in 20 min chucks 14 shots.

IMO you just have strong opinions about players ,some in positive ,some in negative way and you make your opinion about them despite them showing opposite of what you belive.

Ross has 23% usage, that's around same as Gordon and Vučević and Evan. On 23 mpg he shoots 11 times. He also shoots putrid 37% from the floor and 30% for 3 and draws no fouls whatsoever.

By all accounts only Simmons has been less productive from players who have big usage. He tries on defense, i'll give him that, but overall, just brickshooting chucker.

Friendly suggestion, don't let emotions get you when you judge players.

[fendilim]

I don't know about learning curve... I think he's shown improvement every year and this year has just begun, so let's see where he's at at the end of the year before we start suggesting that he's plateaued and reached his peak.

He might be trying too hard with this new contract and trying to meet expectations, but this team is still being plagued by the same thing that's plagued them since the Dwightmare.

BAD TEAM CHEMISTRY

At some point, I hope WeHam figures it out, but until we do, nothing will significantly improve for Gordon or the rest of the team for that matter. We'll just continue to watch the nightly Evan and Vuc Show like groundhogs day and pretend that's going to work.

Acknowledging Vuc and Evan’s big roles in the bad team chemistry, isn’t it possible Gordon is also a cause of it and not just a victim? He’s been here a long time too.

Sure. There are no winners when bad chemistry infects the team.

But I don't think we want to repeat the Oladipo case all over again. Half the forum was convinced he was the problem because Oladipo couldn't shoot consistently and the player he wanted to be and the player he actually was weren’t the same at the time. I fought the current then and I'll fight the current now.

There are issues with the team, but it takes taking a step back before we can take a real step forward.

oladipo couldnt shoot consistently, but still shot better during his worst shooting year than Ag’s best shooting year...

Difference between oladipo and gordon is oladipo has shown signs he can create off the dribble and take over games. Gordon has not shown signs of that. He has, and still is, an inefficient shot creator.

Why cant gordon be the next tobias? Who pretty much remained the same and didnt take his game to a star level after getting traded?

[pepe1991]

Acknowledging Vuc and Evan’s big roles in the bad team chemistry, isn’t it possible Gordon is also a cause of it and not just a victim? He’s been here a long time too.

Sure. There are no winners when bad chemistry infects the team.

But I don't think we want to repeat the Oladipo case all over again. Half the forum was convinced he was the problem because Oladipo couldn't shoot consistently and the player he wanted to be and the player he actually was weren’t the same at the time. I fought the current then and I'll fight the current now.

There are issues with the team, but it takes taking a step back before we can take a real step forward.

oladipo couldnt shoot consistently, but still shot better during his worst shooting year than Ag’s best shooting year...

Difference between oladipo and gordon is oladipo has shown signs he can create off the dribble and take over games. Gordon has not shown signs of that. He has, and still is, an inefficient shot creator.

Why cant gordon be the next tobias? Who pretty much remained the same and didnt take his game to a star level after getting traded?

Pacers are also so damn well coached and well paced team. Oladipo just gives them extra gear. One of best teams when it comes to moving ball to get great looks.

btw Harris is averaging 22-9 right now

[fendilim]

Sure. There are no winners when bad chemistry infects the team.

But I don't think we want to repeat the Oladipo case all over again. Half the forum was convinced he was the problem because Oladipo couldn't shoot consistently and the player he wanted to be and the player he actually was weren’t the same at the time. I fought the current then and I'll fight the current now.

There are issues with the team, but it takes taking a step back before we can take a real step forward.

oladipo couldnt shoot consistently, but still shot better during his worst shooting year than Ag’s best shooting year...

Difference between oladipo and gordon is oladipo has shown signs he can create off the dribble and take over games. Gordon has not shown signs of that. He has, and still is, an inefficient shot creator.

Why cant gordon be the next tobias? Who pretty much remained the same and didnt take his game to a star level after getting traded?

Pacers are also so damn well coached and well paced team. Oladipo just gives them extra gear. One of best teams when it comes to moving ball to get great looks.

btw Harris is averaging 22-9 right now

Cant believe we traded him to free up minutes for gordon. Gawd.

[Xatticus]

oladipo couldnt shoot consistently, but still shot better during his worst shooting year than Ag’s best shooting year...

Difference between oladipo and gordon is oladipo has shown signs he can create off the dribble and take over games. Gordon has not shown signs of that. He has, and still is, an inefficient shot creator.

Why cant gordon be the next tobias? Who pretty much remained the same and didnt take his game to a star level after getting traded?

Pacers are also so damn well coached and well paced team. Oladipo just gives them extra gear. One of best teams when it comes to moving ball to get great looks.

btw Harris is averaging 22-9 right now

Cant believe we traded him to free up minutes for gordon. Gawd.

We didn't. There are several theories as to why Harris was traded, but that one makes the least sense. If the goal was to accommodate Gordon, Hennigan certainly wouldn't have traded for Ibaka and signed Biyombo in the following summer.

By the way, Harris has continued to improve since he departed Orlando. He just hasn't made the same leap that Oladipo has.

[fendilim]

Pacers are also so damn well coached and well paced team. Oladipo just gives them extra gear. One of best teams when it comes to moving ball to get great looks.

btw Harris is averaging 22-9 right now

Cant believe we traded him to free up minutes for gordon. Gawd.

We didn't. There are several theories as to why Harris was traded, but that one makes the least sense. If the goal was to accommodate Gordon, Hennigan certainly wouldn't have traded for Ibaka and signed Biyombo in the following summer.

By the way, Harris has continued to improve since he departed Orlando. He just hasn't made the same leap that Oladipo has.

https://www.nba.com/magic/news/magic-acquire-jennings-and-ilyasova-pistons-exchange-harris

``We feel like additional minutes for Mario, Evan and Aaron Gordon are important for our team – both this season and long term,’’ Hennigan said. ``I think all of that sort of gets factored into the stew when you make a decision like this. That was certainly a factor.’’


We actually did open up minutes for guys like Gordon by trading Tobias.

[Xatticus]

Cant believe we traded him to free up minutes for gordon. Gawd.

We didn't. There are several theories as to why Harris was traded, but that one makes the least sense. If the goal was to accommodate Gordon, Hennigan certainly wouldn't have traded for Ibaka and signed Biyombo in the following summer.

By the way, Harris has continued to improve since he departed Orlando. He just hasn't made the same leap that Oladipo has.

https://www.nba.com/magic/news/magic-acquire-jennings-and-ilyasova-pistons-exchange-harris

``We feel like additional minutes for Mario, Evan and Aaron Gordon are important for our team – both this season and long term,’’ Hennigan said. ``I think all of that sort of gets factored into the stew when you make a decision like this. That was certainly a factor.’’


We actually did open up minutes for guys like Gordon by trading Tobias.

Yeah. Because he had to try to sell the trade and he wasn't going to tell you the real reason why Harris was traded had everything to do with Skiles.

Ilyasova came in and took most of the minutes vacated by the Harris departure and we traded for a starting PF in the following summer.

Read the quote you provided and ask yourself why you don't keep droning on about how we traded Harris to free up minutes for Evan Fournier. If you are honest with yourself, that will tell you everything you need to know about your own motivations.