Weltman Talks to Robbins on Future of the Roster ($)

[MasterGMer]

I think we need to be more patient in our building plan. Winning at most you can could be the strategy moving forward. It improves player development and help the young players grow.

Bamba is not ready to be a starter yet, so we have Vuc
Fultz still need to improve his 3pt shooting learn how to be more aggressive. So he needs to focus on winning games to develop

That is just two examples.

But I think Running it back could be the strategy. But I want a change in our potential and lineup. Because it makes sense.
We have Okeke, Isaac, Aminu and AG at PF spot. We need to trade one.

Because Vuc is our best asset. I think if we have some opportunities, we can also trade Vuc for a young player or draft picks

We need Offense and Shooting and that should be the goal this off season

[EasternMagic]

I honestly believe that if we had a healthy Isaac, AG, and MCW (maybe Mo would be a bonus depending on what Mo we'd get) we could've had a small (maybe very small) chance to actually win that MKE series, and I definitely think we would've won more than 1 game, especially the way JI had been playing leading up to his ACL tear. BUT that has more a lot to do with how MKE was struggling. And even with that said, even if we miraculously won that series, that wouldn't have elevated us to contender status. MKE played subpar basketball throughout their whole time in the bubble. After watching three of our games I texted my Heat friends and told them I'd be surprised if they didn't blow out MKE in the 2nd round... and sure enough...

The most concerning part about this interview was JW saying that we have a very balanced roster filled with guys who compliment one another. That couldn't be further from the truth. There are a lot of adjectives that come to mind when I think about this roster, and balanced is not one of them. This roster definitely has shown flashes of efficiency and cohesion (let's not forget, we had the number one rated offense post-all-star break and we were following suit in the bubble before JI went down), but there's no consistency. And you can't reference 1 month of good offense and say, "Ya, that roster... it's balanced and complimentary," and completely ignore the huge sample size that shows how big of a black hole our offense really is. And yes, we have good defensive pieces, but our holes on defense with Markelle, DJ, Evan, and Vuc are big enough to counter the above par defense from our other wings and MCW. This roster is a jumbled mess.

With all of that said, even if JW didn't believe his own words, I wouldn't expect him to say anything different than he did. It would be nice, however, for him to at least admit that we have massive offensive deficiencies... JW just blink twice if you hear us... nothing? No? okay...

[Tarheel]

Let me preface this by saying I'm not a WeHam apologist and definitely not one for Martins.

That said, we have no idea what this FO has attempted to pull off and been offered from other teams.

We as fans are only judging them by the on-court product. Before you jump on me here, I'm not saying we're wrong to do that.

But — I said it elsewhere... making changes to make changes isn't a sound strategy. Hennigan made this mistake and it bit us.

Somewhere the discussion turned to the team wanting to make money. That's natural, as professional sports is a business after all.

To think that ownership would prefer to keep a steady ship and hover at the 8 spot versus make any drastic changes at all does not support that argument.

The money that can be made going deeper in the playoffs and getting worldwide exposure doesn't only put more money in their pockets now but drives up the value of the franchise, long-term.

Granted, bottoming out means short-term loss and not every business is willing to take that chance when it doesn't guarantee you a change in fortune.

We tried that recently, remember? (Oladipo, Gordon, Payton)

Sure, we got lucky before but the rules have changed post-The Process.

But to act like that's the ONLY way to go from here to become a championship contender is madness.

The front office's job is to improve the team.

You're kidding yourself if the brass (WeHam, Martin's, DeVos, etc.) is content with where this team is at compared to where we were over 10 years ago.

Professional sports is a weird animal — you have drafts, free agency, trades, a regular season, and playoff. You can't always make huge strides in just one-season stretches.

It's a long game, in other words.

And you do your best to position yourself with maximum opportunity and wiggle room (see Boston Celtics).

Guys get better. Guys get worse. Diamonds in the rough are uncovered. Trades can come off as lopsided with time.

That's all to say that there is luck involved.

Personally, I'd rather be in play for the 7-8 seeds for a few years so that when we do catch a break, we can be right in the thick of it... versus what we could be experiencing as a Kings or Knicks fan (with respect).

In summary, I'm not saying bottoming out isn't a good strategy. Just that it's not the only one.

And just because we aren't making wholesale moves every year, it doesn't mean it compromises our ability to strike on a really great deal or two to get us right back where we want to be.

Even if we have to stay the course for as long as it takes for that opportunity to present itself.

I largely agree with what you said, but I think this is the summer to force some change even if a home-run opportunity doesn't present itself.

I'm not suggesting change for change's sake but I do think shaking up the roster this summer would have benefits, even if the overall talent increase is incremental. Running it back again would not represent an improvement on this year, unless Chuma or whoever we pick at 15 turns out to be a baller out of the gates, which is tremendously unlikely. I don't believe tearing it down is the way to go either, especially with the lottery odds the way they are now.

We have some good young pieces (none have shown enough yet to be considered 'core') and a very talented centrepiece in Vuc who is playing his best ball under Clifford. To me the best strategy this offseason would be to move Gordon and Fournier for younger pieces who could use a change of scenery and fit better around Vuc (off the top of my head, players like Anfernee Simons, Cam Johnson or Jarrett Culver) or, if the deal is there, one of the top picks for a Hayes, Haliburton, Ball, Edwards etc. The other option is to go for a player who they think could break out with a change of scenery (Lavine, Levert). We shouldn't shy away from taking back salary either if it brings young talent with it (Wiggins + #2, DeRozan + Murray/Walker etc).

Vuc is not the player to build a championship contender around, but we don't have the pieces to get such a player right now and he's a good enough player to keep us competitive while young players show their worth. Eventually one of those young pieces will show enough to be that 1a option, between them they'll accrue enough worth to be traded for one, or none of them work out and we're tanking naturally anyway.

Frankly, on a personal level it's at least a bit more interesting to watch a team that has a chance to be competitive most nights than the abominations we have endured since Dwight left. This is infinitely preferable to watching f*cking Bismack 'stone hands' Biyombo struggle to catch a basketball for $15m a year.

[The Real Dalic]

If we have a starting lineup of Fultz-Fournier-Ennis-AG-Vuc and DJ as a primary backup to start the year, I'll lose it.

[JF5]

Though I agree this team is in the right trajectory. A trade or trades to balance out the roster within the next year to set up for the 22-23 season has to happen.

People are very disenchanted with the team. But it's obvious they're building towards something. There are trades I believe that can push this team in the right direction

[thelead]

Though I agree this team is in the right trajectory. A trade or trades to balance out the roster within the next year to set up for the 22-23 season has to happen.

People are very disenchanted with the team. But it's obvious they're building towards something. There are trades I believe that can push this team in the right direction

How is this team on the right trajectory when we were worse this year than last (even before JI went down) and when we're capped out as a top salary spender in the league with no high draft picks coming in?

[OrlandoNed]

Though I agree this team is in the right trajectory. A trade or trades to balance out the roster within the next year to set up for the 22-23 season has to happen.

People are very disenchanted with the team. But it's obvious they're building towards something. There are trades I believe that can push this team in the right direction

How is this team on the right trajectory when we were worse this year than last (even before JI went down) and when we're capped out as a top salary spender in the league with no high draft picks coming in?

It’s best to put people who don’t know what the hell they are talking about on the foe list. People who think a front office who haven’t made a significant roster change going into their 4th offseason is the “right trajectory” for postseason cannon fodder with no cap aren’t worth aggravating yourself over.

[j-ragg]

Maybe it’s best we don’t trade our Henny vets. A) I don’t trust WeltHam to not screw it up and B) I don’t think they have as much value as people think on here.

Fournier (if he opts in) isn’t worth much as a 17 million dollar shooting specialist. Maybe you get a matching expiring back and a 2nd?

Gordon is worth probably at best an expiri and mid first rounder.

Vucevic is probably a neutral contract.

Ross is probably negative but is locked down has a skill set teams covet. Could see his value going from THJ on the Knicks to THJ on the Mavs once he’s dealt to a good team.

DJ is expiring but obviously isn’t a hot commodity on the market.

I hope I’m wrong but I really don’t see very many positive value packages coming back to us unless we use young guys/picks with the vets. Let alone the #1 pick in the draft lol.

[Max Power]

To me, I agree that the best way to change this team is through a variety of ways. Use trades, draft, and free agency. I can understand the bottoming out endorsements to a degree also, but we tried that at one time and it didn’t work during Hennigans run. I will give Hennigan some credit for assembling a very talented 2015 team under Skiles, but the chemistry wasn’t there and Skiles ended up being right about that team in retrospect.

I am not in favor of bottoming out this team if Weltman and Hammond are here. Their draft picks haven’t produced much, and I’m certainly not trashing Issac, we just need the young guy to get healthy finally. The talent is there. But Bamba is essentially a back up big guy I think. Okeke the jury is out on but I just don’t like how Weltman and Hammond draft AT ALL. Not one offensive minded pick in 3 years. I’m fine with a rebuild if we’re under a new GM/VP. Which I think W and H have till the 20-21 offseason to show a comprehensive long term plan to contendership. Obviously acquiring a star level 2 or 3 would go a long way. If I’m those guys, I’m talking to Portland about CJ McCollum or some other team with a wing scorer. That’s the biggest thing the Magic need at a glance.

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

I can't wait to revisit this post a year from now when all the Weltman supporters will turn on him and current management and ownership after another 43 win season and as an 8th seed losing to the top tier squad 4-1.

This has been groundhog day for years that doesn't seem to be ending anytime soon.

[VFX]

This front office won't survive a rebuild. The time for a rebuild was when they first got here and they decided against it. Now they're going to ride this thing until the wheels fall off. Which for them will probably be at the end of next season. Then the new front office will begin a rebuild.

If no major changes are made, i'm not watching next season. I struggled to even watch the playoffs. Enough is enough.

Agree.

I’m boycotting the Magic next season if any of this is actually what they do/think. Unbelievable.

[VFX]

Though I agree this team is in the right trajectory. A trade or trades to balance out the roster within the next year to set up for the 22-23 season has to happen.

People are very disenchanted with the team. But it's obvious they're building towards something. There are trades I believe that can push this team in the right direction

How is this team on the right trajectory when we were worse this year than last (even before JI went down) and when we're capped out as a top salary spender in the league with no high draft picks coming in?

There are about 5-6 posters here that would eat just about any plate of **** this organization puts in front of them.

[Viper1500]

We have a lot of B and C level talent in a super star league. It aint going to work.

[Driguez]

Blow. It. Up.

[TheGlyde]

Maybe it’s best we don’t trade our Henny vets. A) I don’t trust WeltHam to not screw it up and B) I don’t think they have as much value as people think on here.

Fournier (if he opts in) isn’t worth much as a 17 million dollar shooting specialist. Maybe you get a matching expiring back and a 2nd?

Gordon is worth probably at best an expiri and mid first rounder.

Vucevic is probably a neutral contract.

Ross is probably negative but is locked down has a skill set teams covet. Could see his value going from THJ on the Knicks to THJ on the Mavs once he’s dealt to a good team.

DJ is expiring but obviously isn’t a hot commodity on the market.

I hope I’m wrong but I really don’t see very many positive value packages coming back to us unless we use young guys/picks with the vets. Let alone the #1 pick in the draft lol.

I actually think AG has more value (particularly for small market teams) than some here think. In the current climate where revenue sharing could be on shaky ground, crowds may not be possible for at least part of next season, you need eyes on your games, butts in seats when you can have them, and to sell merchandise.

Plenty of people have pulled AG's stats to bits, but the guy has a profile and a mainstream following.

1.2million Insta followers, as much as the official Orlando Magic team page. His slam dunk contest pedigree and flashy play make hardcores here puke but he resonates with the casual fan. He has broken into the China market with his own shoe, and could have value to another small market team trying to get money out of casual fans. As a new player, they might turn on the game or go to the arena to see AG blow a few turnarounds, get an alley oop dunk, and go home happy thinking he might be a star one day.

I guarantee there are some small market GMs who will take the on court flaws in return for ticket sales and butts in seats and see past the flaws that have been evident year in year out for us.

For Evan, you look to flip him for youth. You want the exact kind of trade that got us Evan in the first place, we sent out Afflalo after he had reached his physical peak, and flipped him for someone younger who turned out to be better.

Do the same for Evan.

As much as some people think Evan opting out would be addition by subtraction I think in the real world because we are capped out it is important we don't let our big salaries walk for nothing. Unless we sync contracts to actually get cap space at some point, we have nothing other than the MLE to replace them with, so you want either a less talented expiring and a pick, or a package of younger players that haven't yet had an opportunity.

[basketballRob]

Maybe it’s best we don’t trade our Henny vets. A) I don’t trust WeltHam to not screw it up and B) I don’t think they have as much value as people think on here.

Fournier (if he opts in) isn’t worth much as a 17 million dollar shooting specialist. Maybe you get a matching expiring back and a 2nd?

Gordon is worth probably at best an expiri and mid first rounder.

Vucevic is probably a neutral contract.

Ross is probably negative but is locked down has a skill set teams covet. Could see his value going from THJ on the Knicks to THJ on the Mavs once he’s dealt to a good team.

DJ is expiring but obviously isn’t a hot commodity on the market.

I hope I’m wrong but I really don’t see very many positive value packages coming back to us unless we use young guys/picks with the vets. Let alone the #1 pick in the draft lol.

I actually think AG has more value (particularly for small market teams) than some here think. In the current climate where revenue sharing could be on shaky ground, crowds may not be possible for at least part of next season, you need eyes on your games, butts in seats when you can have them, and to sell merchandise.

Plenty of people have pulled AG's stats to bits, but the guy has a profile and a mainstream following.

1.2million Insta followers, as much as the official Orlando Magic team page. His slam dunk contest pedigree and flashy play make hardcores here puke but he resonates with the casual fan. He has broken into the China market with his own shoe, and could have value to another small market team trying to get money out of casual fans. As a new player, they might turn on the game or go to the arena to see AG blow a few turnarounds, get an alley oop dunk, and go home happy thinking he might be a star one day.

I guarantee there are some small market GMs who will take the on court flaws in return for ticket sales and butts in seats and see past the flaws that have been evident year in year out for us.

For Evan, you look to flip him for youth. You want the exact kind of trade that got us Evan in the first place, we sent out Afflalo after he had reached his physical peak, and flipped him for someone younger who turned out to be better.

Do the same for Evan.

As much as some people think Evan opting out would be addition by subtraction I think in the real world because we are capped out it is important we don't let our big salaries walk for nothing. Unless we sync contracts to actually get cap space at some point, we have nothing other than the MLE to replace them with, so you want either a less talented expiring and a pick, or a package of younger players that haven't yet had an opportunity.

The bad thing about always trying to keep big salaries around is we're always up against the luxury tax threshold. We couldn't sign players like Duncan Robinson or Nunn if we wanted to, because we have to keep players around. If we truly wanted to use the Heat mold we'd get rid of selfish players and retain team guys that play a role.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[j-ragg]

Maybe it’s best we don’t trade our Henny vets. A) I don’t trust WeltHam to not screw it up and B) I don’t think they have as much value as people think on here.

Fournier (if he opts in) isn’t worth much as a 17 million dollar shooting specialist. Maybe you get a matching expiring back and a 2nd?

Gordon is worth probably at best an expiri and mid first rounder.

Vucevic is probably a neutral contract.

Ross is probably negative but is locked down has a skill set teams covet. Could see his value going from THJ on the Knicks to THJ on the Mavs once he’s dealt to a good team.

DJ is expiring but obviously isn’t a hot commodity on the market.

I hope I’m wrong but I really don’t see very many positive value packages coming back to us unless we use young guys/picks with the vets. Let alone the #1 pick in the draft lol.

I actually think AG has more value (particularly for small market teams) than some here think. In the current climate where revenue sharing could be on shaky ground, crowds may not be possible for at least part of next season, you need eyes on your games, butts in seats when you can have them, and to sell merchandise.

Plenty of people have pulled AG's stats to bits, but the guy has a profile and a mainstream following.

1.2million Insta followers, as much as the official Orlando Magic team page. His slam dunk contest pedigree and flashy play make hardcores here puke but he resonates with the casual fan. He has broken into the China market with his own shoe, and could have value to another small market team trying to get money out of casual fans. As a new player, they might turn on the game or go to the arena to see AG blow a few turnarounds, get an alley oop dunk, and go home happy thinking he might be a star one day.

I guarantee there are some small market GMs who will take the on court flaws in return for ticket sales and butts in seats and see past the flaws that have been evident year in year out for us.

You don't have to sell me on this, I hope we keep him. I just thought his value was at a low considering he had a rough year shooting. He was trending toward league average from 3 last season then looked like Westbrook this season. But for a team with such little popularity league wide, AG is our only person with any social media following, I feel like that is somewhat useful. I also think there's something of value for the type of build that can guard the LeBron's + Kawhi's of the league, just isn't quite as valuable to a team like ours who isn't at that level.

For Evan, you look to flip him for youth. You want the exact kind of trade that got us Evan in the first place, we sent out Afflalo after he had reached his physical peak, and flipped him for someone younger who turned out to be better.

Completely agree. Thought that was a good movie by Henny.

As much as some people think Evan opting out would be addition by subtraction I think in the real world because we are capped out it is important we don't let our big salaries walk for nothing. Unless we sync contracts to actually get cap space at some point, we have nothing other than the MLE to replace them with, so you want either a less talented expiring and a pick, or a package of younger players that haven't yet had an opportunity.

Not sure if you're advocating for re-signing him or just for him to opt-in. I think re-signing him to another long term deal keeps us going down this slippery slope. He isn't going to have a career year shooting for every season, ya know? Vuc had his lone all star year and got his 100 million dollar deal and his efficiency took a dive this year (not that he stunk). It'd be predictable for that to happen to Fournier or any other vets on this team with career years lining up with contract years.

I can also understand why they would do it, even though I never would. Like you said either way we are capped. But at some point you can't just keep the same team for a decade and just re-signing them with hopes Kawhi or Giannis will sign out of sympathy (not saying that you're suggesting that, just seems like the FO's hail mary plan imo).

[MagicFan4Lyfe]

This front office won't survive a rebuild. The time for a rebuild was when they first got here and they decided against it. Now they're going to ride this thing until the wheels fall off. Which for them will probably be at the end of next season. Then the new front office will begin a rebuild.

If no major changes are made, i'm not watching next season. I struggled to even watch the playoffs. Enough is enough.

Agree.

I’m boycotting the Magic next season if any of this is actually what they do/think. Unbelievable.

First time since 1989 I didn't watch a single game this season. Even during our "down" years we still had hope- an up and coming team, potential salary cap space.... what do we have to look forward too? And with Isaac out, only Markelle and Chuma have promise but neither are going to move the needle.
So I will always be a Magic fan forever and I'll return when this garbage organization decides to do something.

[JF5]

Though I agree this team is in the right trajectory. A trade or trades to balance out the roster within the next year to set up for the 22-23 season has to happen.

People are very disenchanted with the team. But it's obvious they're building towards something. There are trades I believe that can push this team in the right direction

How is this team on the right trajectory when we were worse this year than last (even before JI went down) and when we're capped out as a top salary spender in the league with no high draft picks coming in?

There are about 5-6 posters here that would eat just about any plate of **** this organization puts in front of them.

I'm looking long term wise. The team is in a transitional period between vets/young guys. With the currently core of guys this is a 2-3 year trajectory that people don't want to hear at this point but that's what it is. "Bottoming out" is something this team we''ve seen time and time again avoid to do/not wanting to do and at this point with the way draft odds are now is pretty much pointless.

I think with 2-3 moves of balancing the roster/player growth this team could be a lot better in 2-3 years. But that's just me I guess...

[VFX]

How is this team on the right trajectory when we were worse this year than last (even before JI went down) and when we're capped out as a top salary spender in the league with no high draft picks coming in?

There are about 5-6 posters here that would eat just about any plate of **** this organization puts in front of them.

I'm looking long term wise. The team is in a transitional period between vets/young guys. With the currently core of guys this is a 2-3 year trajectory that people don't want to hear at this point but that's what it is. "Bottoming out" is something this team we''ve seen time and time again avoid to do/not wanting to do and at this point with the way draft odds are now is pretty much pointless.

I think with 2-3 moves of balancing the roster/player growth this team could be a lot better in 2-3 years. But that's just me I guess...

That’s the point, it doesn’t need to be in transition any more than it’s needed to be. Moving vets doesn’t equate to “bottoming out” simply due to lack of experience. There are plenty of nba teams, that have younger rosters, that finished as good or better than Orlando this season.

We’ve seen a number of teams turn around their rosters in a matter of 2-3 seasons. Weltman refuses to do it and would rather sit in the middle with the same exact core he inherited. This team has been in transition I’d say 2-3 years longer than it’s needed to be. And again, changing direction doesn’t mean you are banking absolutely everything in the draft. Is it a big part of it? Sure, but it’s not everything.

You can say we are 2-3 years away, but all I see are devaluing assets that they are now paying more for despite their refusal to sell high.

You aren’t looking at the team in the “long term” if you think keeping Hennigan’s core, for as long as possible, is pertinent to Orlando landing better future talent.