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Official Spec Thread: Regular Season

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#41 » by thelead » Thu Jun 15, 2023 4:13 am

SOUL wrote:I like everything about Beal besides his contract and his potential injury concerns the last few years.

That contract and the trade kicker just kills his value. I actually like the fit from a player and team perspective though. If he was making ~$30 mil per, he would have value even with the injury concerns but at 50 to 60 mil… for a guy that is not a top 10 guy? Just no way.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#42 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:16 pm

Super Max's killed the NBA trade market for stars... add on the 2nd tier salary apron and yeshh
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#43 » by basketballRob » Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:28 pm

Trading for Beal doesn't make us better than Washington was last season.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#44 » by basketballRob » Thu Jun 15, 2023 5:35 pm

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#45 » by KillMonger » Fri Jun 16, 2023 6:31 am

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#46 » by KillMonger » Fri Jun 16, 2023 6:32 am

basketballRob wrote:

what's up with this vid? we should want nothing to do with either player
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#47 » by eyriq » Sun Jun 18, 2023 8:43 pm

Which teams are best positioned for the future according to the Ringer's Trade Value rankings? I've stopped after the top 30.

Two teams have 3 players in the top 30; Thunder and Cavs.
Five teams have 2 players in the top 30; Magic, Suns, Grizzlies, Heat, and Nuggets
Nine teams have no players in the top 30; Hawks, Jazz, Clippers, Wizards, Bulls, Raptors, Rockets, Pistons, Hornets

This leads me to a team building strategy question. We've clearly transitioned from tanking for draft picks to developing our young talent. We've identified an "all-star" core in Paolo and Franz. Should we approach this draft with a focus on building around Paolo and Franz? This strategy would be different from taking BPA as we'd assess if there are prospects that compliment Paolo and Franz and take them if there are OR if there aren't good fit options we could look to trade the picks for established players who can contribute immediately and fit well with our core. If we do opt for a strategy to build around Paolo and Franz as early as this offseason we could see a rebalancing of the roster as we add experienced players that can help provide stability and guidance.

I'm leaning towards the "take another bite from the apple" camp and stay on the asset accumulation and player development path but there is a real case to be made that the team could switch our strategy and start building around Paolo and Franz right away. What are yawls thoughts?


Nuggets: 1 Jokic; 11 Murray
Bucks: 2 Giannis
Mavericks: 3 Luka
Spurs: 4 Wemby
Warriors: 5 Curry
Celtics: 6 Tatum
Suns: 7 Booker; 10 Durant;
Thunder: 8 SGA; 22 Giddey; 29 Williams
Timberwolves: 9 Edwards
Heat: 12 Butler; 15 Bam
76ers: 13 Embiid
Grizzlies: 14 JJJ; 27 Morant
Cavs: 16 Mobley; 23 Mitchell; 26 Garland
Pacers: 17 Haliburton
Magic: 18 Banchero; 30 Wagner
Kings: 19 Fox
Lakers: 20 Davis
Knicks: 21 Brunson
Nets: 24 Bridges
Blazers: 25 Lillard
Pelicans: 28 Zion
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#48 » by basketballRob » Sun Jun 18, 2023 9:11 pm

KillMonger wrote:
basketballRob wrote:

what's up with this vid? we should want nothing to do with either player
Overweight Zion doing a soft drink commercial while eating Doritos isn't a good look.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#49 » by MagicManMike » Mon Jun 19, 2023 3:59 am

basketballRob wrote:Trading for Beal doesn't make us better than Washington was last season.

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The trade of Beal should be the exact reason we stay pat and grow our talent until the current group shows when their window is. Right now you’re going to have teams stacking up to compete with the Suns and Nugs… let them do that while we develop talent.

Let PB have all the room in the world to grow
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#50 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jun 19, 2023 6:48 am

This Beal trade makes no sense to me from Suns POV. They needed reliable role players and defenders not another ballhandler who isn't full time ballhandler, rather like Booker, chases own shots, doesn't attack rim that much and lives off midrange pullups.

Very strange trade.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#51 » by eyriq » Mon Jun 19, 2023 8:56 am

Side note; why are Giddey and Williams ranked ahead of Franz?
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#52 » by drsd » Mon Jun 19, 2023 9:35 am

pepe1991 wrote:This Beal trade makes no sense to me from Suns POV. They needed reliable role players and defenders not another ballhandler who isn't full time ballhandler, rather like Booker, chases own shots, doesn't attack rim that much and lives off midrange pullups.

Very strange trade.



Dude: just accept that the Wizards will be horribly bad next year and be happy about that.

..
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#53 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:02 am

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:This Beal trade makes no sense to me from Suns POV. They needed reliable role players and defenders not another ballhandler who isn't full time ballhandler, rather like Booker, chases own shots, doesn't attack rim that much and lives off midrange pullups.

Very strange trade.



Dude: just accept that the Wizards will be horribly bad next year and be happy about that.

..

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#54 » by basketballRob » Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:27 am

pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:This Beal trade makes no sense to me from Suns POV. They needed reliable role players and defenders not another ballhandler who isn't full time ballhandler, rather like Booker, chases own shots, doesn't attack rim that much and lives off midrange pullups.

Very strange trade.



Dude: just accept that the Wizards will be horribly bad next year and be happy about that.

..

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I'd like to see Ayton traded for Vuc. Then there will be no excuses for them. The Suns payroll will be north of $200m.

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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#55 » by eyriq » Mon Jun 19, 2023 10:33 am

Actually, five teams have two players in the trade value top 30. I totally missed the Suns with Booker and Durant.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#56 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:00 am

basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
drsd wrote:

Dude: just accept that the Wizards will be horribly bad next year and be happy about that.

..

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I'd like to see Ayton traded for Vuc. Then there will be no excuses for them. The Suns payroll will be north of $200m.

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That means the starting lineup and roster looks like this as of now:

PG: Cameron Payne
SG: Devin Booker
SF: Bradley Beal
PF: Kevin Durant
C: Deandre Ayton
Bench: Ishmail Wainright

This roster yells " we will miss playoffs ", i don't know what people in nba smoke if they think that's how championship rosters look like. Probably some good stuff since they thought Westbrook_Davis- Lebron is good idea. It's impressive that lot of fans have more advanced basketball minds than people payed millions to build those teams.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#57 » by MasterGMer » Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:16 am

pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:Image

Image
I'd like to see Ayton traded for Vuc. Then there will be no excuses for them. The Suns payroll will be north of $200m.

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That means the starting lineup and roster looks like this as of now:

PG: Cameron Payne
SG: Devin Booker
SF: Bradley Beal
PF: Kevin Durant
C: Deandre Ayton
Bench: Ishmail Wainright

This roster yells " we will miss playoffs ", i don't know what people in nba smoke if they think that's how championship rosters look like. Probably some good stuff since they thought Westbrook_Davis- Lebron is good idea. It's impressive that lot of fans have more advanced basketball minds than people payed millions to build those teams.


IMO, Phoenix Suns has changed from a team with a bright future to now Ring or Die. It is Sad. I think their whole idea of getting KD and trading away Mikal Bridges plus Cam Johnson really detriment the ability about one thing: Depth and future growth.

Yes, KD is a top 5 player in the league. Yes, Bradley Beal is an All Star. But Basketball game is a team sport. Are they fit together? Do they have Depth. IMO this team won't show up for the NBA Finals next season. It is bad micromanaged team from the top. And certainly I am not seeing a Championship team
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#58 » by pepe1991 » Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:28 am

MasterGMer wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:I'd like to see Ayton traded for Vuc. Then there will be no excuses for them. The Suns payroll will be north of $200m.

Sent from my SM-G781U using RealGM mobile app


That means the starting lineup and roster looks like this as of now:

PG: Cameron Payne
SG: Devin Booker
SF: Bradley Beal
PF: Kevin Durant
C: Deandre Ayton
Bench: Ishmail Wainright

This roster yells " we will miss playoffs ", i don't know what people in nba smoke if they think that's how championship rosters look like. Probably some good stuff since they thought Westbrook_Davis- Lebron is good idea. It's impressive that lot of fans have more advanced basketball minds than people payed millions to build those teams.


IMO, Phoenix Suns has changed from a team with a bright future to now Ring or Die. It is Sad. I think their whole idea of getting KD and trading away Mikal Bridges plus Cam Johnson really detriment the ability about one thing: Depth and future growth.

Yes, KD is a top 5 player in the league. Yes, Bradley Beal is an All Star. But Basketball game is a team sport. Are they fit together? Do they have Depth. IMO this team won't show up for the NBA Finals next season. It is bad micromanaged team from the top. And certainly I am not seeing a Championship team


Tbh they were kind a forced to do so. Alternative was losing Cp3 due injuries/decline/ retirment and having no money to find replacment and bloating salaries of exstensions of Mikal Bridges, Booker ( supermax ), Ayton, Cam.

Suns weren't championship team but Cp3, Booker, Mikal and Ayton were costing $120M . Iv'e said in past that current CBA basically cripples ability for teams to stay competitive. You reach point of bloating salary of re-sings, can't sign anybody new, have no flexbility and you either gave to go balls to a wall for championship or tear it down and start over. Sustained winning ins't really possible long term under this rules.

Look at Nuggets, they won championship, for next year the already have $170M in books tied into 10 men. And Bown will either left them, or they will have to go troat deep into luxury to keep him. Year later KCP- same situation. You get worst as your money goes up.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#59 » by Skybox » Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:38 am

pepe1991 wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
That means the starting lineup and roster looks like this as of now:

PG: Cameron Payne
SG: Devin Booker
SF: Bradley Beal
PF: Kevin Durant
C: Deandre Ayton
Bench: Ishmail Wainright

This roster yells " we will miss playoffs ", i don't know what people in nba smoke if they think that's how championship rosters look like. Probably some good stuff since they thought Westbrook_Davis- Lebron is good idea. It's impressive that lot of fans have more advanced basketball minds than people payed millions to build those teams.


IMO, Phoenix Suns has changed from a team with a bright future to now Ring or Die. It is Sad. I think their whole idea of getting KD and trading away Mikal Bridges plus Cam Johnson really detriment the ability about one thing: Depth and future growth.

Yes, KD is a top 5 player in the league. Yes, Bradley Beal is an All Star. But Basketball game is a team sport. Are they fit together? Do they have Depth. IMO this team won't show up for the NBA Finals next season. It is bad micromanaged team from the top. And certainly I am not seeing a Championship team


Tbh they were kind a forced to do so. Alternative was losing Cp3 due injuries/decline/ retirment and having no money to find replacment and bloating salaries of exstensions of Mikal Bridges, Booker ( supermax ), Ayton, Cam.

Suns weren't championship team but Cp3, Booker, Mikal and Ayton were costing $120M . Iv'e said in past that current CBA basically cripples ability for teams to stay competitive. You reach point of bloating salary of re-sings, can't sign anybody new, have no flexbility and you either gave to go balls to a wall for championship or tear it down and start over. Sustained winning ins't really possible long term under this rules.

Look at Nuggets, they won championship, for next year the already have $170M in books tied into 10 men. And Bown will either left them, or they will have to go troat deep into luxury to keep him. Year later KCP- same situation. You get worst as your money goes up.



Agree…I think it’s a lose-lose for everyone but Beal himself who gamed the whole system to grab a loyalty Supermax (he isn’t worthy of) from a desperate loyal team clinging to an aging star…who repays that by adding on a no-trade clause and then using it to ensure they get killed in a trade to get off his money. PHO goes completely win-now (and might) by adding an insane financial burden for a not ideal fit. Better hope it works, because if not…Beal’s deal is yours forever. WAS takes a beating just to unload their overly generous deal.

I liked Beal’s fit in MIA a lot better but maybe he doesn’t like working so hard in practice and, particularly, on defense.
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Re: Official Spec Thread: Off-season Edition - The Draft 

Post#60 » by MasterGMer » Mon Jun 19, 2023 11:38 am

pepe1991 wrote:
MasterGMer wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
That means the starting lineup and roster looks like this as of now:

PG: Cameron Payne
SG: Devin Booker
SF: Bradley Beal
PF: Kevin Durant
C: Deandre Ayton
Bench: Ishmail Wainright

This roster yells " we will miss playoffs ", i don't know what people in nba smoke if they think that's how championship rosters look like. Probably some good stuff since they thought Westbrook_Davis- Lebron is good idea. It's impressive that lot of fans have more advanced basketball minds than people payed millions to build those teams.


IMO, Phoenix Suns has changed from a team with a bright future to now Ring or Die. It is Sad. I think their whole idea of getting KD and trading away Mikal Bridges plus Cam Johnson really detriment the ability about one thing: Depth and future growth.

Yes, KD is a top 5 player in the league. Yes, Bradley Beal is an All Star. But Basketball game is a team sport. Are they fit together? Do they have Depth. IMO this team won't show up for the NBA Finals next season. It is bad micromanaged team from the top. And certainly I am not seeing a Championship team


Tbh they were kind a forced to do so. Alternative was losing Cp3 due injuries/decline/ retirment and having no money to find replacment and bloating salaries of exstensions of Mikal Bridges, Booker ( supermax ), Ayton, Cam.

Suns weren't championship team but Cp3, Booker, Mikal and Ayton were costing $120M . Iv'e said in past that current CBA basically cripples ability for teams to stay competitive. You reach point of bloating salary of re-sings, can't sign anybody new, have no flexbility and you either gave to go balls to a wall for championship or tear it down and start over. Sustained winning ins't really possible long term under this rules.

Look at Nuggets, they won championship, for next year the already have $170M in books tied into 10 men. And Bown will either left them, or they will have to go troat deep into luxury to keep him. Year later KCP- same situation. You get worst as your money goes up.


I think the Suns got to this point because they traded for Kevin Durant and they have too be a Championship contender because of that. Yes, Mikal's extension and Cam's extension will cost them a lot. But they had a 38 year old CP3 which they could just waive or trade away. The whole reason of staying Championship contending is because of Kevin Durant.

That is kinda why I do not want to see Magic gets into this situation. We want remain flexible and we want a championship level of team. If you want to choose one? Which one? That is kinda hard because of the new CBA which Magic could extend Paolo and Franz both to a max contract. That is HARD!

But I love the idea of changing to a Championship competing team while remaining the flexibility and future. Thus we have to give up someone. It is hard. But it is possible!

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