AB the PG development thread

[Skybox]

Watch on YouTube

If we want to break down his game we should probably be using footage. Here's a description of his 8 assists from the Philly game.

1 (0:03)- gets downhill into the paint, draws 3 defenders, kicks out to open Jett (Harris switching corners baseline helped keep the baseline defender stuck)
2 (0:23) - Philly running zone, Isaac sets screen for AB, he gets the on-ball defender on his back and draws the other perimeter defender which frees up Jett for an open 3.
3 (0:37) - AB gets a deflection which becomes a turnover and transition. Harris runs a nice drag screen to free up Jett and AB hits him quickly.
4 (0:51) - Harris comes off a floppy, gives it straight back to AB. AB drives into the lane, causes defense to crash where he kicks to the open Isaac in the corner.
5 (1:02) - Transition, AB aggressive and goes straight into the lane. Has no shot, but finds Isaac diving the lane behind him for a nice slam.
6 (1:14) - Setting up offense, he sees defense sleeping on Cole, kicks it ahead for a quick 3 attempt early in the clock.
7 (1:44) - TDS sets a screen for AB who beats the switch, draws the big and then finds Goga with a wraparound pass.
8 (1:55) - Goga sets a flat screen for AB up top, Cole makes the skip pass to AB, Goga rolls into an open lane and Black hits him.


Overall, he's showing a nice variety of ways he can work with an offense. What's interesting is 3 of those assists came quite early in the clock, pushing ahead for quick looks from 3 (2 to Jett and 1 to Cole). I think that says something about how we'll look to break out of some of our slow stagnant half court offense this season - trust our shooters with early looks and know we've got the defense to get it back if it's a miss.

He showed some real gravity with his drives in those plays, too, always forcing the defense to collapse, and now he's showing he can slow and keep his own pace in those situations, and take the time to read the defense and make the right pass.

He showed some really great stuff in that Philly preseason game, even if it's only preseason.

Wow...great content. I hope he builds on that. No flukey stuff there - except maybe the falling out of bounds pass to Isaac (that worked out).

[jonbob17]

If Black can turn into something close to Lonzo Ball without the headaches or injuries...look out. Could you imagine this lineup in a couple years if everything breaks right?

Black
Suggs
Wagner
Paolo
JI

There's a lot of IF's in this lineup...but immense upside...

On paper JI is the nice to have.

Black panning out. Jett becoming a contributor. TDS remaining a contributor. WCJ + Mo + Goga is an interesting skelaton crew. Not sure if championship level, but the next phase of the build I think is to figure out how we can become more top heavy as most championships teams are.

The only way you get to becoming a championship team is with a top tenish player, the rest of the team better be good too, and maybe great depending on how great that number 1 is. The only way we are getting that is through development. Black is just more potential of reaching the higher tier that we will need to be at to compete with OKC, Boston, Denver, Dallas, San Antonio, and Houston for the next decade. Even if AB ends up being the 5th best player, he could be an extremely solid 5th guy with his size and skill set.

[KillMonger]

Either the game is slowing down or his processing is speeding up.... I keep thinking about that one instance in the game where even though it ended up a turnover he was in a tough spot....he somehow knew one of our guys was behind him and attempted a behind the back pass.... Had he connected with that pass..... He was able to process a way out in that moment and it impressed me. Maybe I can find the clip, I only saw it once live and it still stuck with me days later

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

[eyriq]

Either the game is slowing down or his processing is speeding up.... I keep thinking about that one instance in the game where even though it ended up a turnover he was in a tough spot....he somehow knew one of our guys was behind him and attempted a behind the back pass.... Had he connected with that pass..... He was able to process a way out in that moment and it impressed me. Maybe I can find the clip, I only saw it once live and it still stuck with me days later

Sent from my [Hands] using RealGM mobile app

Same, that moment had me standing. It would have ended me if Goga handled it.

[BadMofoPimp]

Read on Twitter

?t=prhuR38BmK5ccsJUhVO9DQ&s=19

Lots of fans post stuff like this fan did.

Who are even these people???

RealGM or other forums posters most likely.

[eyriq]

Lots of fans post stuff like this fan did.

Who are even these people???

RealGM or other forums posters most likely.

AKA cool peeps who should have a voice! When I agree with them.

[BadMofoPimp]

So this thread will be pretty much made out twitter stickers where eyriq finds irrelevant fan posts from people with 200 followers, or wannabe podcasters that collect 400 views per youtube video but support his agenda with over a top takes in hope to create some conversation and bring their accounts to relevancy?


Nothing says no bias, objectivity and good perception of a league than twitter handle with this description:
Franz Wagner enthusiast
Jonathan Isaac stan
Jett Howard fan
Markelle Fultz enjoyer


I can start twitter handle and claim that Jabari Parker will be better than Durant, and probably find 300 fools to agree with me. That doesn't mean anything said is true. It just means that we live in world full of morons and people who can be manipulated into narrative that fits you.
Just last year, here, but especially on reddit plenty of fans believed Markelle Fultz will be all star.... Fast forward 365 days later and guy... is sitting home without career.

Leave Magic Twitter alone, you bully!

Fine, I'll keep it data driven from here on out, but I do enjoy the trend in positive AB sentiment and think it is a nice sign that the Fultz battle scars are healing.

I enjoy the posts of players training or fooling around short vid's. The Heat forum players tend to post lots of them. Not sure about other teams, but would like if the players were more involved like that.

[RookieStar]

Who are even these people???

RealGM or other forums posters most likely.

AKA cool peeps who should have a voice! When I agree with them.

Hey KD.. i mean eyriq... slow down with the self praise on your burner accounts. Lol

[Bergmaniac]

What is stupid is taking a victory luck after a few preseason games and some generic praise from teammtes and coaches. I am happy that AB looked good in preseason and showed more traditionally playmaking skills and plays, but at the end of the day it's just preseason. Being able to do this in games that matter is a different kettle of fish altogether.

And nobody needs to apologise for saying that AB didn't play as a playmaker/PG/whatever you want to call it last season because this is a fact. Mosley clearly didn't trust him with this role. He barely ran any plays on offense.

The debate was never about him playing in a playmaker role last season. Moving the goal posts to avoid accountability is lame and does the discussion no good.

The discussion was always about whether or not we drafted our point guard of the future.

Is he a point guard or a wing?
Can he run an offense?
Is he a playmaker?
Are we developing him to be a point guard or a wing?

In the preseason we've seen him touted as a point guard, run the offense, and make plays. That's all the evidence we need for these basic questions.

He's a point guard.
We are developing him to be a point guard.
He is a playmaker.
He can run an offense.

Now it's about how well he can do these things IMO.

In his whole rookie season his coach didn't trust AB at all to run the offense and preferred the corpse of Fultz over him - that doesn't exactly scream "point guard of the future" to me. It's good that Mosley has shown more trust in him in preseason and he used that oportunity well, but I will need to see this happening regularly in meaningful games before I jump on any bandwagon.

[eyriq]

What is stupid is taking a victory luck after a few preseason games and some generic praise from teammtes and coaches. I am happy that AB looked good in preseason and showed more traditionally playmaking skills and plays, but at the end of the day it's just preseason. Being able to do this in games that matter is a different kettle of fish altogether.

And nobody needs to apologise for saying that AB didn't play as a playmaker/PG/whatever you want to call it last season because this is a fact. Mosley clearly didn't trust him with this role. He barely ran any plays on offense.

The debate was never about him playing in a playmaker role last season. Moving the goal posts to avoid accountability is lame and does the discussion no good.

The discussion was always about whether or not we drafted our point guard of the future.

Is he a point guard or a wing?
Can he run an offense?
Is he a playmaker?
Are we developing him to be a point guard or a wing?

In the preseason we've seen him touted as a point guard, run the offense, and make plays. That's all the evidence we need for these basic questions.

He's a point guard.
We are developing him to be a point guard.
He is a playmaker.
He can run an offense.

Now it's about how well he can do these things IMO.

In his whole rookie season his coach didn't trust AB at all to run the offense and preferred the corpse of Fultz over him - that doesn't exactly scream "point guard of the future" to me. It's good that Mosley has shown more trust in him in preseason and he used that oportunity well, but I will need to see this happening regularly in meaningful games before I jump on any bandwagon.

It didn't scream it to you and you should ask yourself why you were wrong instead of getting an attitude with me.

[BadMofoPimp]

It sure will be interesting to see if he can beat out Cole for minutes. Maybe towards the 2nd half of the season he will. AB is a project for sure more long term.

[Skybox]

What is stupid is taking a victory luck after a few preseason games and some generic praise from teammtes and coaches. I am happy that AB looked good in preseason and showed more traditionally playmaking skills and plays, but at the end of the day it's just preseason. Being able to do this in games that matter is a different kettle of fish altogether.

And nobody needs to apologise for saying that AB didn't play as a playmaker/PG/whatever you want to call it last season because this is a fact. Mosley clearly didn't trust him with this role. He barely ran any plays on offense.

The debate was never about him playing in a playmaker role last season. Moving the goal posts to avoid accountability is lame and does the discussion no good.

The discussion was always about whether or not we drafted our point guard of the future.

Is he a point guard or a wing?
Can he run an offense?
Is he a playmaker?
Are we developing him to be a point guard or a wing?

In the preseason we've seen him touted as a point guard, run the offense, and make plays. That's all the evidence we need for these basic questions.

He's a point guard.
We are developing him to be a point guard.
He is a playmaker.
He can run an offense.

Now it's about how well he can do these things IMO.

In his whole rookie season his coach didn't trust AB at all to run the offense and preferred the corpse of Fultz over him - that doesn't exactly scream "point guard of the future" to me. It's good that Mosley has shown more trust in him in preseason and he used that oportunity well, but I will need to see this happening regularly in meaningful games before I jump on any bandwagon.

That’s kind of the (intended) point of this thread…to deal in facts as they come in, not eyriq’s. Gummy-enhanced fantasies about what we’ve seen to date


So far, this preseason, we’re seeing what he’s dreamed…let’s keep our objective eyes on it

[Bensational]

The debate was never about him playing in a playmaker role last season. Moving the goal posts to avoid accountability is lame and does the discussion no good.

The discussion was always about whether or not we drafted our point guard of the future.

Is he a point guard or a wing?
Can he run an offense?
Is he a playmaker?
Are we developing him to be a point guard or a wing?

In the preseason we've seen him touted as a point guard, run the offense, and make plays. That's all the evidence we need for these basic questions.

He's a point guard.
We are developing him to be a point guard.
He is a playmaker.
He can run an offense.

Now it's about how well he can do these things IMO.

In his whole rookie season his coach didn't trust AB at all to run the offense and preferred the corpse of Fultz over him - that doesn't exactly scream "point guard of the future" to me. It's good that Mosley has shown more trust in him in preseason and he used that oportunity well, but I will need to see this happening regularly in meaningful games before I jump on any bandwagon.

That’s kind of the (intended) point of this thread…to deal in facts as they come in, not eyriq’s. Gummy-enhanced fantasies about what we’ve seen to date


So far, this preseason, we’re seeing what he’s dreamed…let’s keep our objective eyes on it

It’s not really objective when you make no effort to discuss current data and information though.

Honestly, for an audience who have doubted his ability because he was used in a limited fashion last year, I’d have thought there would be plenty to analyse and discuss just in that clip I shared. But some are more interested in defending an opinion based on data of a 19 year old rookie than actually giving his game a legitimate appraisal.

Not aiming this at you just cos I replied to you, but if people truly believed he had as little playmaking capability as he showed last season they should be blown away by what he did in that last preseason game. But they’re not, and his growth is being dismissed pretty readily. Makes no sense to me unless it’s coming from a place of defending an old opinion which looks outdated already.

[JoshuaPotter]

In his whole rookie season his coach didn't trust AB at all to run the offense and preferred the corpse of Fultz over him - that doesn't exactly scream "point guard of the future" to me. It's good that Mosley has shown more trust in him in preseason and he used that oportunity well, but I will need to see this happening regularly in meaningful games before I jump on any bandwagon.

That’s kind of the (intended) point of this thread…to deal in facts as they come in, not eyriq’s. Gummy-enhanced fantasies about what we’ve seen to date


So far, this preseason, we’re seeing what he’s dreamed…let’s keep our objective eyes on it

It’s not really objective when you make no effort to discuss current data and information though.

Honestly, for an audience who have doubted his ability because he was used in a limited fashion last year, I’d have thought there would be plenty to analyse and discuss just in that clip I shared. But some are more interested in defending an opinion based on data of a 19 year old rookie than actually giving his game a legitimate appraisal.

Not aiming this at you just cos I replied to you, but if people truly believed he had as little playmaking capability as he showed last season they should be blown away by what he did in that last preseason game. But they’re not, and his growth is being dismissed pretty readily. Makes no sense to me unless it’s coming from a place of defending an old opinion which looks outdated already.

That the thing, when your coach implodes your first year for whatever reason you want to assign. You go off footage, what he projected at, what he displays in SL and pre-season.

Kid to me is a PG. A MCW mold point guard as his floor. He spent his first year working on a jump shot so maybe, just maybe he avoid the career MCW COMP and just becomes "Anthony Black".

In terms of upside. Just like someone can say "I don't see it" based on what they have or haven't seen. I can say "sky is the limit". Granted, well see.

[Skybox]

In his whole rookie season his coach didn't trust AB at all to run the offense and preferred the corpse of Fultz over him - that doesn't exactly scream "point guard of the future" to me. It's good that Mosley has shown more trust in him in preseason and he used that oportunity well, but I will need to see this happening regularly in meaningful games before I jump on any bandwagon.

That’s kind of the (intended) point of this thread…to deal in facts as they come in, not eyriq’s. Gummy-enhanced fantasies about what we’ve seen to date


So far, this preseason, we’re seeing what he’s dreamed…let’s keep our objective eyes on it

It’s not really objective when you make no effort to discuss current data and information though.

Honestly, for an audience who have doubted his ability because he was used in a limited fashion last year, I’d have thought there would be plenty to analyse and discuss just in that clip I shared. But some are more interested in defending an opinion based on data of a 19 year old rookie than actually giving his game a legitimate appraisal.

Not aiming this at you just cos I replied to you, but if people truly believed he had as little playmaking capability as he showed last season they should be blown away by what he did in that last preseason game. But they’re not, and his growth is being dismissed pretty readily. Makes no sense to me unless it’s coming from a place of defending an old opinion which looks outdated already.

I gotcha...your video breakdown is precisely what I hoped for in this thread...Not more of the "is too"/"is not" stuff.

[eyriq]

This is on topic analysis

Read on Twitter

?t=0eYijJaXSzVfoh1ny8E4cg&s=19

[JoshuaPotter]

This is on topic analysis

Read on Twitter

?t=0eYijJaXSzVfoh1ny8E4cg&s=19

Not enough analysis, homer post, toss out article, who does this author think he is, where do you find these guys, did an AI write this, usage rate isn't high enough, played against bums, coach didn't play him over a broomstick, you got to stop comparing him to Magic Johnson.

[eyriq]

This is on topic analysis

Read on Twitter

?t=0eYijJaXSzVfoh1ny8E4cg&s=19

Not enough analysis, homer post, toss out article, who does this author think he is, where do you find these guys, did an AI write this, usage rate isn't high enough, played against bums, coach didn't play him over a broomstick, you got to stop comparing him to Magic Johnson.

Haha I think this about covers it!

That article Fawzan wrote is absolutely saturated with knowledge. Anyone having doubts about AB should read it, I'm curious if it moves the needle.

[zaymon]

This is on topic analysis

Read on Twitter

?t=0eYijJaXSzVfoh1ny8E4cg&s=19

Not enough analysis, homer post, toss out article, who does this author think he is, where do you find these guys, did an AI write this, usage rate isn't high enough, played against bums, coach didn't play him over a broomstick, you got to stop comparing him to Magic Johnson.

Haha I think this about covers it!

That article Fawzan wrote is absolutely saturated with knowledge. Anyone having doubts about AB should read it, I'm curious if it moves the needle.

It moves, but not in the way you want it to move.

During Black's rookie season, he was limited to nearly non-existent usage within the playbook. This means Jamahl Mosley did less than the bare minimum in helping create pathways to encapsulate more extensive offensive success. Most of Black's scoring came from him having to fend for himself versus having his number called within set plays. This, it's fair to say, was not necessarily an ideal environment in which to develop. But Black kept working and has showcased signs of individual improvement as a scorer and facilitator during his sophomore preseason.

Thats the core of the argument you are having with Knightro. You are arguing different things. Knightro writes Black didnt run our offense last year, and you respond by writing he was listed as a point guard. Both things are true at the same time.

[eyriq]

Not enough analysis, homer post, toss out article, who does this author think he is, where do you find these guys, did an AI write this, usage rate isn't high enough, played against bums, coach didn't play him over a broomstick, you got to stop comparing him to Magic Johnson.

Haha I think this about covers it!

That article Fawzan wrote is absolutely saturated with knowledge. Anyone having doubts about AB should read it, I'm curious if it moves the needle.

It moves, but not in the way you want it to move.

During Black's rookie season, he was limited to nearly non-existent usage within the playbook. This means Jamahl Mosley did less than the bare minimum in helping create pathways to encapsulate more extensive offensive success. Most of Black's scoring came from him having to fend for himself versus having his number called within set plays. This, it's fair to say, was not necessarily an ideal environment in which to develop. But Black kept working and has showcased signs of individual improvement as a scorer and facilitator during his sophomore preseason.

Thats the core of the argument you are having with Knightro. You are arguing different things. Knightro writes Black didnt run our offense last year, and you respond by writing he was listed as a point guard. Both things are true at the same time.

That's a slippery reframe of the discussion. We weren't arguing different things. Knightro effectively said that AB wasn't being developed as a point guard, wasn't a point guard, and wouldn't be a point guard. He doubled down on this by making the bet about Cole Anthony leading AB in every play making statistic, and said that there's no evidence that AB could take over Ingles playmaking responsibilities. He thinks that he's a wing not a point guard. Every piece of evidence I presented that he was a playmaker was poo pooed.