All in!! Anfernee Simons 2.0

[RichCollab]

Simons seemed so disengaged last night. It makes sense given the state of Portland but don’t see this front office wanting any of that.

[eyriq]

Simons is improving his D-EPM this season. The last couple of seasons I believe he was last. This season, he improved to second to last.

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LMAO

Progress!

[Rainwater]

Unless as a 6th man, I don't know how Simons gets here. Black and Suggs are the future backcourt.

[thelead]

Unless as a 6th man, I don't know how Simons gets here. Black and Suggs are the future backcourt.

Agreed. Simons is what we want Cole to be.

[Knightro]

Right or wrong, any trades the Magic make moving forward have to be viewed through the lens of...

-How close is the player they are acquiring to free agency?

-How much will their next contract cost?

Because in 26-27 Paolo Franz and Suggs combined are gonna be making like $125M. Plus they have Isaac, Carter, Black, Jett, KCP,

The idea of adding Simons is fine, but he's gonna want a raise over what he's making now beginning in... 26-27.

[basketballRob]

Right or wrong, any trades the Magic make moving forward have to be viewed through the lens of...

-How close is the player they are acquiring to free agency?

-How much will their next contract cost?

Because in 26-27 Paolo Franz and Suggs combined are gonna be making like $125M. Plus they have Isaac, Carter, Black, Jett, KCP,

The idea of adding Simons is fine, but he's gonna want a raise over what he's making now beginning in... 26-27.

Duffy is going to want to sign an extension at the end of this season.

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[BlazersBroncos]

I think ORL could buy low on Simons and come out of it as a worthy cost even if they dont resign him in 2026.

Something like Harris, Cole, lower of 25 FRP (Top-20 protected, if both picks fall between 1-19, then PDX gets 2 or 3 SRP) for Simons.

Seems like ORL could afford that cost and think of it as a quality move even if they part with Anfernee summer 2026. I am also thinking the market for scoring combo guards who cant defend well is plummeting. I could see guys like Poole and Simons being in the 15-18M AV range when they hit FA. Or even cheaper.

[BadMofoPimp]

After watching Simons this season so far, I think people here overrate him. He has nights like last night where he went 2-9FG with 0-4 from the 3 with 4 turnovers. He isn't that great of a facilitator. Just a better version of Cole for sure. He can be can score at times, but he doesn't push the needle in Portland. I already think Black is going to be better in within the next year.

[Skybox]

As always, the analysis is dysfunctional....

-Yes, he's got real weaknesses in his game as well as very clear strengths
-NO, he's not guaranteed to get a big raise or even expect one. Sometimes (often) guys who got overpaid, don't get overpaid again.

Considering what the likely price is...Cole/Harris/DEN pick, maybe some srps or a protected ORL pick (?) or maybe sub Jett in for one of the picks, at most...where's the BIG risk? Even if he walks after next season - it's not world-ending. If he's worth paying, we'll make it work by clearing out some of our overpaid back of the bench guys and go to a more realistic roster salary distribution (like every contender). Comparing him to a really really good and much more consistent Cole Anthony is fine...I'll take that all day, that's just what we need- an absolute flamethrower off the bench at worst. One of the proven best shooters in the league...who hits at a high clip on as high as 3pt volume as nearly anyone. Freak athlete, super long, still very young and hasn't played anywhere but POR, where he was in the shadow/mentorship of two of the highest volume, no-defense scoring guards in the league for years, then switched directly to irrelevance as a rebuild team. Who's to say he doesn't have another gear? and, even if he doesn't, he'll put up 30 in a blink if you focus all of your defensive energy to doubling Paolo & Franz. Again, he would have led our "success story" team in PPG, APG, 3pt makes volume last year and we're, basically, getting off of Cole's extension at the same time.

IF this is the deal, it's an easy one for me...but but but defense...enough already with this cocoon of vision. We have half a dozen great defenders and a great defensive coach who is counting on floor spreading for his VERY limited offensive scheme to work.

[tiderulz]

After watching Simons this season so far, I think people here overrate him. He has nights like last night where he went 2-9FG with 0-4 from the 3 with 4 turnovers. He isn't that great of a facilitator. Just a better version of Cole for sure. He can be can score at times, but he doesn't push the needle in Portland. I already think Black is going to be better in within the next year.

but who else is he playing with there? does anything move the needle with that team?

[Skybox]

After watching Simons this season so far, I think people here overrate him. He has nights like last night where he went 2-9FG with 0-4 from the 3 with 4 turnovers. He isn't that great of a facilitator. Just a better version of Cole for sure. He can be can score at times, but he doesn't push the needle in Portland. I already think Black is going to be better in within the next year.

but who else is he playing with there? does anything move the needle with that team?

I'll take a "better version of Cole"...just what we need. Especially one with enough offensive fire to help fill the gap while Paolo is out and the skillset to blend right back in when he returns. He hits more 3's on a bad night than Cole on a good night...and he has less bad nights. So much nitpicking with this guy. We're not going to trade for Donovan Mitchell...your realistic targets are Simons, Schroder, Sexton-level guys. IF you're going to dissect Simons to this level, who on ORL is truly more valuable? Just 3 guys(arguably) and ALL of them will have much bigger deals than Simons next year. Simons is not a savior, he's a role player on our roster, with the opportunity to be more.

IF you're giving KCP $22m to be Okogie/Okoro/NAW...Simons is a steal. IF Mo is $11m and Cole is $13m, Simons is underpaid.

[orlando_joe]

As always, the analysis is dysfunctional....

-Yes, he's got real weaknesses in his game as well as very clear strengths
-NO, he's not guaranteed to get a big raise or even expect one. Sometimes (often) guys who got overpaid, don't get overpaid again.

Considering what the likely price is...Cole/Harris/DEN pick, maybe some srps or a protected ORL pick (?) or maybe sub Jett in for one of the picks, at most...where's the BIG risk? Even if he walks after next season - it's not world-ending. If he's worth paying, we'll make it work by clearing out some of our overpaid back of the bench guys and go to a more realistic roster salary distribution (like every contender). Comparing him to a really really good and much more consistent Cole Anthony is fine...I'll take that all day, that's just what we need- an absolute flamethrower off the bench at worst. One of the proven best shooters in the league...who hits at a high clip on as high as 3pt volume as nearly anyone. Freak athlete, super long, still very young and hasn't played anywhere but POR, where he was in the shadow/mentorship of two of the highest volume, no-defense scoring guards in the league for years, then switched directly to irrelevance as a rebuild team. Who's to say he doesn't have another gear? and, even if he doesn't, he'll put up 30 in a blink if you focus all of your defensive energy to doubling Paolo & Franz. Again, he would have led our "success story" team in PPG, APG, 3pt makes volume last year and we're, basically, getting off of Cole's extension at the same time.

IF this is the deal, it's an easy one for me...but but but defense...enough already with this cocoon of vision. We have half a dozen great defenders and a great defensive coach who is counting on floor spreading for his VERY limited offensive scheme to work.

well 15 mill will be over tax next yr is he worth costing owners 50 mill

[orlando_joe]

As always, the analysis is dysfunctional....

-Yes, he's got real weaknesses in his game as well as very clear strengths
-NO, he's not guaranteed to get a big raise or even expect one. Sometimes (often) guys who got overpaid, don't get overpaid again.

Considering what the likely price is...Cole/Harris/DEN pick, maybe some srps or a protected ORL pick (?) or maybe sub Jett in for one of the picks, at most...where's the BIG risk? Even if he walks after next season - it's not world-ending. If he's worth paying, we'll make it work by clearing out some of our overpaid back of the bench guys and go to a more realistic roster salary distribution (like every contender). Comparing him to a really really good and much more consistent Cole Anthony is fine...I'll take that all day, that's just what we need- an absolute flamethrower off the bench at worst. One of the proven best shooters in the league...who hits at a high clip on as high as 3pt volume as nearly anyone. Freak athlete, super long, still very young and hasn't played anywhere but POR, where he was in the shadow/mentorship of two of the highest volume, no-defense scoring guards in the league for years, then switched directly to irrelevance as a rebuild team. Who's to say he doesn't have another gear? and, even if he doesn't, he'll put up 30 in a blink if you focus all of your defensive energy to doubling Paolo & Franz. Again, he would have led our "success story" team in PPG, APG, 3pt makes volume last year and we're, basically, getting off of Cole's extension at the same time.

IF this is the deal, it's an easy one for me...but but but defense...enough already with this cocoon of vision. We have half a dozen great defenders and a great defensive coach who is counting on floor spreading for his VERY limited offensive scheme to work.

well 15 mill will be over tax next yr is he worth costing owners 50 mill

also what is your problem with mo dude has signed 1 yr deals since he has been here ...i mean dam thats got to count for something..you think he could not get a 3 yr deal some place else? magic under tax and paid him..i see no problem at all with that..guy plays his ass off

[Skybox]

As always, the analysis is dysfunctional....

-Yes, he's got real weaknesses in his game as well as very clear strengths
-NO, he's not guaranteed to get a big raise or even expect one. Sometimes (often) guys who got overpaid, don't get overpaid again.

Considering what the likely price is...Cole/Harris/DEN pick, maybe some srps or a protected ORL pick (?) or maybe sub Jett in for one of the picks, at most...where's the BIG risk? Even if he walks after next season - it's not world-ending. If he's worth paying, we'll make it work by clearing out some of our overpaid back of the bench guys and go to a more realistic roster salary distribution (like every contender). Comparing him to a really really good and much more consistent Cole Anthony is fine...I'll take that all day, that's just what we need- an absolute flamethrower off the bench at worst. One of the proven best shooters in the league...who hits at a high clip on as high as 3pt volume as nearly anyone. Freak athlete, super long, still very young and hasn't played anywhere but POR, where he was in the shadow/mentorship of two of the highest volume, no-defense scoring guards in the league for years, then switched directly to irrelevance as a rebuild team. Who's to say he doesn't have another gear? and, even if he doesn't, he'll put up 30 in a blink if you focus all of your defensive energy to doubling Paolo & Franz. Again, he would have led our "success story" team in PPG, APG, 3pt makes volume last year and we're, basically, getting off of Cole's extension at the same time.

IF this is the deal, it's an easy one for me...but but but defense...enough already with this cocoon of vision. We have half a dozen great defenders and a great defensive coach who is counting on floor spreading for his VERY limited offensive scheme to work.

well 15 mill will be over tax next yr is he worth costing owners 50 mill

also what is your problem with mo dude has signed 1 yr deals since he has been here ...i mean dam thats got to count for something..you think he could not get a 3 yr deal some place else? magic under tax and paid him..i see no problem at all with that..guy plays his ass off

Mo's great. I'd much rather have him than not... but he's a luxury. You just don't pay your 3rd string C that much...his defense is up there with Simons, but his offense is not. Mo made more this year than all of his years pre-Magic combined...sending out 2 salaries to bring back one good one is how you win, not coddling mediocre guys, even ones you like...If the argument is "WCJ misses time", then he should be the one NOT getting re-upped - otherwise, you might as well add Mo's salary to WCJ's cost. Isaac can certainly be 3rd string C (or, someday maybe, first string). Does every team even have a 3rd string C? Paying okay guys (even really nice ones ) close to the mid-level is the dumbest way to sap your salary cap. CLE's managed to pay 4 guys, why can't ORL? Isaac's deal is great, because when he's healthy, he's as impactful as anyone, and he'll be getting near mid-level.

Mo's deal was built to trade, same with Gary...they both are happy to take the money with the understanding that the TO, the overall length, and the high amount makes them "tradable assets"...IF Mo was determined to stay in ORL because he loves it, he would have 3yrs at 7m...which is still dicey.

[orlando_joe]

well 15 mill will be over tax next yr is he worth costing owners 50 mill

also what is your problem with mo dude has signed 1 yr deals since he has been here ...i mean dam thats got to count for something..you think he could not get a 3 yr deal some place else? magic under tax and paid him..i see no problem at all with that..guy plays his ass off

Mo's great. I'd much rather have him than not... but he's a luxury. You just don't pay your 3rd string C that much...his defense is up there with Simons, but his offense is not. Mo made more this year than all of his years pre-Magic combined...sending out 2 salaries to bring back one good one is how you win, not coddling mediocre guys, even ones you like...If the argument is "WCJ misses time", then he should be the one NOT getting re-upped - otherwise, you might as well add Mo's salary to WCJ's cost. Isaac can certainly be 3rd string C (or, someday maybe, first string). Does every team even have a 3rd string C? Paying okay guys (even really nice ones ) close to the mid-level is the dumbest way to sap your salary cap. CLE's managed to pay 4 guys, why can't ORL? Isaac's deal is great, because when he's healthy, he's as impactful as anyone, and he'll be getting near mid-level.

Mo's deal was built to trade, same with Gary...they both are happy to take the money with the understanding that the TO, the overall length, and the high amount makes them "tradable assets"...IF Mo was determined to stay in ORL because he loves it, he would have 3yrs at 7m...which is still dicey.

mo is 2nd string and has been..they may have paid him a couple extra knowing can pay him a couple less next yr and his defense is not simons bad..its not great but not simons bad also a center that has been pretty injury free and sorry he makes a third of simons and enjoys his roll not sure simons will like playing 15 -20 min a night he may cry and not good for lockeroom he is not worth the money and even 1 first rd pick that is not top 20 plus protected...watch again 1 more yr no simons to orlando i do get a laugh out of it...simons may get 15 pts a game and give up 20 thats not positive at 26 a yr plus assets

mo deal not built to trade ...sorry do not buy that..
maybe just me?

[tiderulz]

also what is your problem with mo dude has signed 1 yr deals since he has been here ...i mean dam thats got to count for something..you think he could not get a 3 yr deal some place else? magic under tax and paid him..i see no problem at all with that..guy plays his ass off

Mo's great. I'd much rather have him than not... but he's a luxury. You just don't pay your 3rd string C that much...his defense is up there with Simons, but his offense is not. Mo made more this year than all of his years pre-Magic combined...sending out 2 salaries to bring back one good one is how you win, not coddling mediocre guys, even ones you like...If the argument is "WCJ misses time", then he should be the one NOT getting re-upped - otherwise, you might as well add Mo's salary to WCJ's cost. Isaac can certainly be 3rd string C (or, someday maybe, first string). Does every team even have a 3rd string C? Paying okay guys (even really nice ones ) close to the mid-level is the dumbest way to sap your salary cap. CLE's managed to pay 4 guys, why can't ORL? Isaac's deal is great, because when he's healthy, he's as impactful as anyone, and he'll be getting near mid-level.

Mo's deal was built to trade, same with Gary...they both are happy to take the money with the understanding that the TO, the overall length, and the high amount makes them "tradable assets"...IF Mo was determined to stay in ORL because he loves it, he would have 3yrs at 7m...which is still dicey.

mo is 2nd string and has been..they may have paid him a couple extra knowing can pay him a couple less next yr and his defense is not simons bad..its not great but not simons bad also a center that has been pretty injury free and sorry he makes a third of simons and enjoys his roll not sure simons will like playing 15 -20 min a night he may cry and not good for lockeroom he is not worth the money and even 1 first rd pick that is not top 20 plus protected...watch again 1 more yr no simons to orlando i do get a laugh out of it...simons may get 15 pts a game and give up 20 thats not positive at 26 a yr plus assets

mo deal not built to trade ...sorry do not buy that..
maybe just me?

will be the first time in a long time that he has something to play for, and coming home. I dont see that happening.

[Knightro]

Here's what I said on the trade board...

Ultimately, I don't know the Magic would be willing to do the Simons for Anthony/Harris swap even though it makes sense on paper.

Simons is set to make $27.6M next year. The Magic have team option on Harris' 7M which they will likely decline. So they'd be adding $14.5M in salary to next year's payroll.

Adding $14.5M to next year's payroll would put the Magic at about $203M in salary for 25-26 on 13 players.

That would put them over the 1st apron, and only leave them only about $4.8M under the 2nd apron. And they'd still need to bring on 2 more players likely at the minimum

That would make things really tight financially, and I'm not sure they want to risk going over the 2nd apron on a team that *probably* wouldn't have legitimate title aspirations.

And then the following year Paolo's salary jumps from $15.3M to around $42.5M with only Moe Wagner's 11M off the books, so the Magic would be at $200M ($28M below the 2nd apron) on just 10 guys with Simons and Moe Wagner not under contract.

They'd go well beyond the 2nd apron to retain them both and fill out the bottom of the roster with minimums.

They could look to move some other pieces around, but I'm skeptical on this front office's ability to be proactive about much of anything.

[Skybox]

also what is your problem with mo dude has signed 1 yr deals since he has been here ...i mean dam thats got to count for something..you think he could not get a 3 yr deal some place else? magic under tax and paid him..i see no problem at all with that..guy plays his ass off

Mo's great. I'd much rather have him than not... but he's a luxury. You just don't pay your 3rd string C that much...his defense is up there with Simons, but his offense is not. Mo made more this year than all of his years pre-Magic combined...sending out 2 salaries to bring back one good one is how you win, not coddling mediocre guys, even ones you like...If the argument is "WCJ misses time", then he should be the one NOT getting re-upped - otherwise, you might as well add Mo's salary to WCJ's cost. Isaac can certainly be 3rd string C (or, someday maybe, first string). Does every team even have a 3rd string C? Paying okay guys (even really nice ones ) close to the mid-level is the dumbest way to sap your salary cap. CLE's managed to pay 4 guys, why can't ORL? Isaac's deal is great, because when he's healthy, he's as impactful as anyone, and he'll be getting near mid-level.

Mo's deal was built to trade, same with Gary...they both are happy to take the money with the understanding that the TO, the overall length, and the high amount makes them "tradable assets"...IF Mo was determined to stay in ORL because he loves it, he would have 3yrs at 7m...which is still dicey.

mo is 2nd string and has been..they may have paid him a couple extra knowing can pay him a couple less next yr and his defense is not simons bad..its not great but not simons bad also a center that has been pretty injury free and sorry he makes a third of simons and enjoys his roll not sure simons will like playing 15 -20 min a night he may cry and not good for lockeroom he is not worth the money and even 1 first rd pick that is not top 20 plus protected...watch again 1 more yr no simons to orlando i do get a laugh out of it...simons may get 15 pts a game and give up 20 thats not positive at 26 a yr plus assets

mo deal not built to trade ...sorry do not buy that..
maybe just me?

Yes...just you. Mo is 2nd string, but Goga jumps him to start?

I'd be happy with a Goga/Mo rotation and unload WCJ before his big deal kicks in. WCJ is the most talented, but he's become an Isaac-level injury problem, without the insane defensive upside....If Mo was sent to a team like Brooklyn (he'd be PF next to Claxton), for example. He and Schroder would PnR teams to death. They wouldn't be a good team, but he's definitely capable of putting up points. Mo is good, has good hands, great attitude, great BBIQ...it's just a luxury to pay 3 Centers AND a guy who can cover C minutes in Isaac (or even Paolo in spurts).

Once Simons gets on the court, he won't be playing 15 minutes (even if he's brought in that way). He'll jump KCP instantly (in minutes) when the coaching staff says, "Hey this offense stuff is kind of nice"

[Bensational]

Here's what I said on the trade board...

Ultimately, I don't know the Magic would be willing to do the Simons for Anthony/Harris swap even though it makes sense on paper.

Simons is set to make $27.6M next year. The Magic have team option on Harris' 7M which they will likely decline. So they'd be adding $14.5M in salary to next year's payroll.

Adding $14.5M to next year's payroll would put the Magic at about $203M in salary for 25-26 on 13 players.

That would put them over the 1st apron, and only leave them only about $4.8M under the 2nd apron. And they'd still need to bring on 2 more players likely at the minimum

That would make things really tight financially, and I'm not sure they want to risk going over the 2nd apron on a team that *probably* wouldn't have legitimate title aspirations.

And then the following year Paolo's salary jumps from $15.3M to around $42.5M with only Moe Wagner's 11M off the books, so the Magic would be at $200M ($28M below the 2nd apron) on just 10 guys with Simons and Moe Wagner not under contract.

They'd go well beyond the 2nd apron to retain them both and fill out the bottom of the roster with minimums.

They could look to move some other pieces around, but I'm skeptical on this front office's ability to be proactive about much of anything.

For me it comes down to there being a 1-1.5 year window to trial run Simons before having to make the big calls on moving guys, but by 26-27 WePark will have:

Franz $41.8
Paolo $38.3
Suggs $32.4
KCP $21.6
WCJ $18.1
Isaac $14.5
AB $10.1
Goga $7.6
TDS $4

TOTAL: $188.4M

Not including:

- 2025 + 2026 rookie contracts (Simons Package)
- Cole $13m team option (Simons Package)
- Jett $7.4m team option (Simons Package)

- Moe Wagner's extension
- Harris extension (Simons Package?)

Simons Package - I'm assuming Simons costs something like Cole + Jett + Pick/s, and maybe Harris for salary?

I'd be curious to see what his value range would be by then. He may play into a raise, he may not. He may want out to start, he may be happy in his role. If he returns on a 4 year $25M AAV deal it keeps us under the 1st apron with room to fill out the roster with minimum deals.

But come 26-27 you've got to figure they'd be forced to make some decisions on what the team needs to really compete just off the financials. Do they want to keep WCJ at $18M when they've got Goga at $7M (expiring)? Do they want to spend $22M on KCP at that stage or can they find a cheaper 3+D option? It'll all come down to how they're performing relative to their deals and team needs.

That's impossible to tell right now, but between now and then we can afford to trial Simons for the fit where he addresses a weakness and only at the expense of a backup PG, 3rd string sophomore and a pick or two? I think it's worth it. Then again, they might fear disrupting the culture, so who knows?

[eyriq]

Simons fills a need, I think it's worth flirting with the apron