FIRE WELTMAN

[jonbob17]

-Displaced Suggs after an astronomical shooting season jump.
-Shooting didn’t translate. Career lows across the board.
-Championship experience didn’t translate. (Team worse)
-Doesn’t address ancillary playmaking in starting lineup.
-4th option is 2nd highest paid player pre-Franz deal.
-Disappears for quarters and games at a time. Only thing beneficial is that he took the place of Harris who is just collecting a paycheck at this point due to his signing.

Was a stupid signing. Said it at the time and my opinion hasn’t changed.

Team isn’t worse. Injuries are a reality. We are still reeling from them.

Suggs will be fine when he is healthy.

I completely disagree with your assertions. I guess I’m a homer though , right?

Not necessarily.

You share the same displaced mentality that Weltman had this offseason. That acquiring a 3&D shooter changes the system, and therefore makes the offense better as a direct correlation.

This was an incorrect assertion that I have talked about ad nauseam. The issue was never directly related to shooting if you watched last nights game.

KCP isn’t even involved in the way Orlando’s offense is run.

Orlando lost Nate Tibbets to the WNBA as our offensive coordinator 2 seasons ago and Mosely promoted from within. I couldn’t even tell you who that person is currently. KCP was a dumb signing.

Weltman's mentality in the offseason was to see how good of players Paolo, Franz and Suggs could become. What are their limits?
Frankly it was looking genius early when Paolo was averaging 29/9/6 on 59% TS. Or even after Paolo went down and the Magic continued to win and Franz took it to another level.

The idea behind KCP was to add a consistent shooter and some perimeter defense, as to no take away any of the usage/playmaking from the three young guys while also taking a bit of the defensive load off all the guys so they concentrate more on their offense. He wasn't brought here to turn Orlando into a contender. The only way Orlando turns into a contender is with significant growth out of Paolo and Franz. It would be nice if Suggs and Black continue to develop too.

At the time i preferred the FO to bring in a playmaker at lead guard during the offseason, the series with Cleveland was gut-wrenching to watch when our half court went stale. Early in the year though the plan made sense when Paolo and then Franz were going beast mode.

You gotta have top 20 players to win titles, i think we have seen glimpses from Paolo, and especially long stretches from Franz that they both can better that. We just need to right the ship this season with some health and average shooting. Nobody is going to want to play a healthy Magic team in April.

Save our ammunition to acquire a third (or fourth) top 30 player to this roster when we can see what Paolo and Franz need help with.

[YosemiteSam]

Wow. I'm not really pro-Weltman at all (I'd replace him IMO), but this board has gone full meltdown mode lol. The season was ruined by massive injuries to 4 core players - and now their spirit is broken. I'd almost shut Paolo down the rest of the year and have him focus on coming back ready to go in 2025-26. Let Franz cook the rest of the year.

[eyriq]

Wow. I'm not really pro-Weltman at all (I'd replace him IMO), but this board has gone full meltdown mode lol. The season was ruined by massive injuries to 4 core players - and now their spirit is broken. I'd almost shut Paolo down the rest of the year and have him focus on coming back ready to go in 2025-26. Let Franz cook the rest of the year.

It's just a select few of the loud posters. You've got the camp that think we are contenders and are underperforming our potential. You've got the camp the prefer trades and free agency for player acquisition over the draft and player development. You've got the camp prefer offense to defense and don't like our style. You've got the camp that are just tired of losing and don't really care about the current state or the nuance of team development and just want results.

Put them all together and you get a loud minority that are missing the big picture.

[richi_v25]

Crazy Otis "I like this team" Smith is our most winningest GM in history, I guess he was right the whole time lol.

[thelead]

I think a lot of this stems from basketball heads around the country trying to figure out what the F the front office is doing now that we have our core defined and there are obvious weaknesses that just aren’t being addressed. We got a little limelight from the playoff exposure, Paolo being recognized as a legit building block, and Franz and Suggs get talked about too. The questioning of the FO is directly correlated to the small amount of success we had last year versus the struggles we’re going through now with the FO doing nothing about it when we have assets to make moves. Imagine if Weltman had to deal with the Lakers press and pressures…

[anothermagicfan]

My guess is if weltman was on the hot seat he would've made a move at the trade deadline to save his job. That didn't happen though. Next step is to play out the rest of the season and see how the team responds after the all-star break and how the playins and playoffs go.

We have our 3 core players. 2 will be 24 at the beginning of the season and the other turns 23 after next season starts. It is getting to the point where it's time to start making long term adjustments to the roster, but the sky isn't even close to falling.

Our cap situation is on the rise but still only about middle of the pack next year. We have a few players that could be moved in draft trades or next season. Moveable contracts like KCP, WCJ, Cole, Moe, Gary and even JI are all important pieces to facilitate a trade.

We have 2 1st round picks in the next draft and a potential pick swap after that.

I can buy that the right trade didn't come together so we didn't make a move just to make a move. Hell I can drink the Kool aid with the best of them...

However if we draft 1 player and trade the other pick for a future first and sell second round picks again for cash considerations and essentially kick the can down the road that will be it for my patience with Weltman.

[RookieStar]

I really think Weltman is throwing everything on the fact when Suggs get back and we have the SL he wanted this season.

He is banking on us fully healthy and getting wins through the POs.

If it blows up in his face and we still grt beat up then i see him making trades this offseason.

[msmoore66]

Wow. I'm not really pro-Weltman at all (I'd replace him IMO), but this board has gone full meltdown mode lol. The season was ruined by massive injuries to 4 core players - and now their spirit is broken. I'd almost shut Paolo down the rest of the year and have him focus on coming back ready to go in 2025-26. Let Franz cook the rest of the year.

It's just a select few of the loud posters. You've got the camp that think we are contenders and are underperforming our potential. You've got the camp the prefer trades and free agency for player acquisition over the draft and player development. You've got the camp prefer offense to defense and don't like our style. You've got the camp that are just tired of losing and don't really care about the current state or the nuance of team development and just want results.

Put them all together and you get a loud minority that are missing the big picture.

This is bang on IMO. We really aren't giving the injury grenade lobbed at the team this season enough credit for the impact it has had.

That said, I do sympathise with the frustration, I want to be winning like we were early this season too (or last season for that matter).

[Ducklett]

Fire Weltman, I don't care, but I have heard/seen 3 sportswriters/radio hosts report Wendy was wrong about this and that Weltman had called Portland, Utah, and Toronto about trades this deadline. Kravitz on afternoon Fox sports and the Magic hater himself Mike Bianchi have both spoke/reported this.

Either way, nothing is more damning to Weltman than the video of Mike Miller (WCJ and Paolo's agent) tearing into Weltman last night courtside. Embarrassing scene for this front office. Hire someone that isn't a moron, just once, please. Have the Magic ever had a good GM? The hockey guy that drafted Dwight might be the best, which is insane.

[FFBlitzace]

I disagree, I'm still confident in him. I think the angst against Weltman is delusional. It just shows an undisciplined and emotional approach to thinking about Weltman's performance. His decision to blow it up was the correct one. His decision to draft Paolo Franz and Suggs were the correct ones. His decision to hire Mosely was the correct one. His philosophy dictates his strategy and explains his organic approach to building the team. It's the same playbook that Presti uses and everyone loves Presti.

There's no point in accelerating the build when Paolo and Franz and Suggs are not a contending core. They are still developing.

Injuries have set back the growth in our win rate. The past few seasons though we've seen tremendous increases in wins season over season.

You can nitpick about his extensions, you can cry about his passivity, but all the opportunities he's missed or the decisions he's made that you disagree with are at the margins and don't impact the long-term trajectory of the team.

I don't even think his seat is mildly warm.

I stand with eyriq.

[Fortune Teller]

Wow. I'm not really pro-Weltman at all (I'd replace him IMO), but this board has gone full meltdown mode lol. The season was ruined by massive injuries to 4 core players - and now their spirit is broken. I'd almost shut Paolo down the rest of the year and have him focus on coming back ready to go in 2025-26. Let Franz cook the rest of the year.

It's just a select few of the loud posters. You've got the camp that think we are contenders and are underperforming our potential. You've got the camp the prefer trades and free agency for player acquisition over the draft and player development. You've got the camp prefer offense to defense and don't like our style. You've got the camp that are just tired of losing and don't really care about the current state or the nuance of team development and just want results.

Put them all together and you get a loud minority that are missing the big picture.

So what’s the big picture, if 8 years isn’t enough to judge? Should we accept that this has always been a 15-year plan? You realize that’s unheard of in professional sports, right? You realize star players aren’t going to wait that long, right? Being called delusional by the guy who has posted 6 million times about how great Anthony Black is doesn’t bother me.

[Magic_Johnny12]

This is honestly a three headed hydra.

If you cut Weltmans head, Alex Martins head pops up. If you cut Martins head, Devos head rears.

Weltman will not take us to the promise land, however nor will Martins and subsequently ownership.

We have to realize as fans that what we deem and define as success could be COMPLETELY different to a business organization that is content with riding this wave as long as they could until the inevitable happens.

And we ALL know what the inevitable looks like, we have gone through it with almost every star player in Magic history.

It’s unfortunate, but the reality. OG’s knows this song and have heard it countless times in the past. Nothing has changed.

[eyriq]

So what’s the big picture, if 8 years isn’t enough to judge?

The big picture is that we are in year 4 of the rebuild, ahead of schedule, and have successfully tanked for 2 franchise players

Year 0: blow-up, tank for Franz and Suggs
Year 1: tank for Paolo. Franz and Suggs are rookies
Year 2: Paolo ROY, +12 wins
Year 3: Paolo all-star, +13 wins, 5th seed
Year 4: obliques, Franz ascendence

[three3d]

So what’s the big picture, if 8 years isn’t enough to judge?

The big picture is that we are in year 4 of the rebuild, ahead of schedule, and have successfully tanked for 2 franchise players

Year 0: blow-up, tank for Franz and Suggs
Year 1: tank for Paolo. Franz and Suggs are rookies
Year 2: Paolo ROY, +12 wins
Year 3: Paolo all-star, +13 wins, 5th seed
Year 4: obliques, Franz ascendence

Na we are still “evaluating “

[MagicTownBaller]

Fire Weltman, I don't care, but I have heard/seen 3 sportswriters/radio hosts report Wendy was wrong about this and that Weltman had called Portland, Utah, and Toronto about trades this deadline. Kravitz on afternoon Fox sports and the Magic hater himself Mike Bianchi have both spoke/reported this.

Either way, nothing is more damning to Weltman than the video of Mike Miller (WCJ and Paolo's agent) tearing into Weltman last night courtside. Embarrassing scene for this front office. Hire someone that isn't a moron, just once, please. Have the Magic ever had a good GM? The hockey guy that drafted Dwight might be the best, which is insane.

Which sportswriters? I would like to see this.

[Black and Blue]

Wow. I'm not really pro-Weltman at all (I'd replace him IMO), but this board has gone full meltdown mode lol. The season was ruined by massive injuries to 4 core players - and now their spirit is broken. I'd almost shut Paolo down the rest of the year and have him focus on coming back ready to go in 2025-26. Let Franz cook the rest of the year.

It's just a select few of the loud posters. You've got the camp that think we are contenders and are underperforming our potential. You've got the camp the prefer trades and free agency for player acquisition over the draft and player development. You've got the camp prefer offense to defense and don't like our style. You've got the camp that are just tired of losing and don't really care about the current state or the nuance of team development and just want results.

Put them all together and you get a loud minority that are missing the big picture.

I’m another camp. I love player development and see it as a fantastic way to rebuild, but think after a certain point a team can get bloated and I see ours as badly in need of a consolidation trade. It’s a proven method for a team to hit the next level after years of drafting - you send a gaggle of your promising young secondary players for a more proven starter who can lift the team (and its young stars) up. I can’t imagine us adding two players this draft, and when we all start to assume that second draft pick will be traded for a future pick or cash considerations it’s beyond time to stop solely building through the draft.

Now I totally understand if the players just weren’t there this deadline, and I totally get if Weltman wanted more time to see how this team came together once they were all healthy (to “assess” as he repeatedly says)…but to not pick up the phone and even do your due diligence to check with teams is tantamount to failing one’s work responsibilities in a major way. Windhorst is as reliable as they come, so I believe him when he says that the league knows Weltman never calls anyone. It’s a super bad reputation to have, and this team needs to be proactive in avoiding it.

The lack of trying is what is causing so much of this fan (and potential player and agent) hate. I was under the assumption Weltman was trying and just standing pat because the deals weren’t there. Since Klutch and the other agencies already avoid us like the plague, the appearance of angering one of the only agents looking to proactively work with us on behalf of his client is scary.

Anyhoo, just attempting to add some nuance to this conversation. Those of us aghast at the Windhorst allegation aren’t all crazy (though yes many are).

[Max Power]

I’m weird when it comes of my view of Weltman, I agree that building thru the draft and patience is a good strategy, and to a degree that’s worked. The Magic have two superstars and a solid supporting class, and generally are on an upward trajectory.

Injuries can take a great deal of blame for where the Magic are. However…having been losing with Franz and Paolo back has re-exposed the team weaknesses that Weltman has refused to address for years. We need a point guard and we need a shooter/perimeter scorer. Outside of Suggs we don’t have a quality starter guard on this team.

Weltman has had 8 seasons. If I’m the ownership, if this collapse continues and we don’t pull thru to make the playoff ( not the play in) then Weltman and Anthony Parker need to be replaced.

[Redwood]

So what’s the big picture, if 8 years isn’t enough to judge?

The big picture is that we are in year 4 of the rebuild, ahead of schedule, and have successfully tanked for 2 franchise players

Year 0: blow-up, tank for Franz and Suggs
Year 1: tank for Paolo. Franz and Suggs are rookies
Year 2: Paolo ROY, +12 wins
Year 3: Paolo all-star, +13 wins, 5th seed
Year 4: obliques, Franz ascendence

We've been rebuilding since Dwight left, your four year claim is just objectively false. When has this team been a contender, or anywhere close to it, in the post Dwight era? It simply hasn't, not once.

The roster is constructed poorly, the offense is consistently bad, and outside of a couple of players the drafting has been poor as well. It's like some of you don't understand what purpose a GM serves, you let him off the hook for aspects of the franchise he's 100 percent responsible for. To say that we should retain him is to also say it's perfectly acceptable to have poor (and never improving) offense, and that roster construction is entirely meaningless. I'm not sure you realize that's what you're saying.

The guy needs to go, nothing could be more clear.

[JF5]

Nah, they've done enough with drafting a Superstar core to warrant them 2 more years of work. I find it weird that nobody in this thread will give them grace given what we have.

I think this thread everyone is too angsty to let these things playout.

I have given them grace already. Action is required now.

I mean given the length it took the Magic to become good again I understand. But the team is damn young (I believe 2nd or 3rd youngest team in the league).

They just got good again last year and had setbacks this year due to their entire team being injured the whole year and not having the continuity/chemistry at all with their major players.

And honestly it was a blessing in disguise and a very successful season (to me) as Franz ended up ascending and being a 1b. option rather than the 2nd and even maybe 3rd option we all projected him to be. If this team had Banchero the whole season Franz would've been held back, and people would've complained that we needed a true 2nd option like Devin Booker or Tyrese Haliburton.

That analysis going back to my point of letting things playout and not forcing things in the moment is why you've got 2 guys who will eventually end up being top 10 players in the league one day (at minimum) on your squad and you'll be multiple titles in the rafters.

Seriously, Weltman got Paolo and Franz. 2 cornerstone Superstar franchise pieces in back to back drafts and people are saying he's not a good GM. It's absolutely laughable to me. GMs ever drafting like that is rare. You keep GMs like this.

[Redwood]

Nah, they've done enough with drafting a Superstar core to warrant them 2 more years of work. I find it weird that nobody in this thread will give them grace given what we have.

I think this thread everyone is too angsty to let these things playout.

I have given them grace already. Action is required now.

I mean given the length it took the Magic to become good again I understand. But the team is damn young (I believe 2nd or 3rd youngest team in the league).

They just got good again last year and had setbacks this year due to their entire team being injured the whole year and not having the continuity/chemistry at all with their major players.

And honestly it was a blessing in disguise and a very successful season (to me) as Franz ended up ascending and being a 1b. option rather than the 2nd and even maybe 3rd option we all projected him to be. If this team had Banchero the whole season Franz would've been held back, and people would've complained that we needed a true 2nd option like Devin Booker or Tyrese Haliburton.

That analysis going back to my point of letting things playout and not forcing things in the moment is why you've got 2 guys who will eventually end up being top 10 players in the league one day (at minimum) on your squad and you'll be multiple titles in the rafters.

Seriously, Weltman got Paolo and Franz. 2 cornerstone Superstar franchise pieces in back to back drafts and people are saying he's not a good GM. It's absolutely laughable to me. GMs ever drafting like that is rare. You keep GMs like this.

Neither PB or Franz are superstars, they have a lot to prove before they reach that status. And getting the top pick is a reward for being terrible. Congratulations, he drafted a good player while being able to pick any player he wanted. That's not as commendable as you think it is. Franz was the much better pick, considering where he went in the draft, but outside of those two it has been nearly all swings and misses. Two good players, and Suggs who has no ability to stay healthy, does not excuse all of the misses. The reason this team has such terrible depth is directly related to how poor we've drafted. All of those blown picks are supposed to be, at worst, our current depth.

So I've learned in this thread that our GM isn't responsible for providing an offensively competent team, constructing a roster of players that compliment each other properly, or providing adequate depth in the event that one of your many players with an injury history winds up missing even more games. So I guess I can add that to the list, the GM is also not responsible for finding players that can stay healthy.

I'm not exactly sure what he's responsible for, it sure seems like "nothing" is the answer some of you have arrived at. Nice gig, get paid millions of dollars and have no responsibility or expectations of any kind.