Top 10 Worst Moves Post Dwight

[3ddman23]

Fournier.... The fact that this guy was our starting sg(essentially go to scorer) for 7 seasons is just truly unbelievable when looking back at it.

[pepe1991]

Ibaka for Oladipo and pick gets overrated in terms of "worst deals".

And-1

Look: the Magic had to pick between retaining only Oladipo or Fournier. It is hard to argue that Orlando made the wrong choice, as Fournier was arguably the same player in the end as Oladipo. With hind-site. But even if it had been a Fournier for Ibaka deal, how's that different in the scope of Magic-hood?

On paper, an engaged Ibaka was the ideal PF next to Vuc...he just wasn't engaged and the whole "Biz is starting at C" plan was DOA. It's just fortunate that we didn't trade away pissed off/passed over Vuc before he became an All-Star (post Ibaka). Ibaka was a monster in the preseason and it looked like we'd have a fearsome Nigerian Nightmare frontcourt to terrorize the league...then, he just seemed to quit.

Biyombo FA was wild thing.

Guy had few games vs defending champions- Heat, where he looked REALLY good.

During FA NBA dropped bombshell about raising cap and teams engaged into craziest FA in terms of wild spending in past 30 years ( probably ever).

Magic/Hen weren't only one doing dumb stuff. Same year Mozgov, Drummond, Whiteside, Parsons,Mahinmi, Crabbe... got crazyyyyyy deals.

Like, Luol Deng got 18% of salary cap. In today's money that's $30M a year after 12 ppg season at age of 30 and on clear decline.

But i think main motivation was to get something for Oladipo while he still had value.

He, by his own words, changed his approach after he spent year with Westbrook and figured how hard he needs to work to get to next level. Basically he was entitled on Magic due draft stock and everything was handed to him, until Skiles didn't lost temper about him and Payton.

And it's not like he was that good in Oklahoma. Only after he got to Indiana he broke out.

[pepe1991]

Fournier.... The fact that this guy was our starting sg(essentially go to scorer) for 7 seasons is just truly unbelievable when looking back at it.

That's nonsense.

Evan was traded for Afflalo who stopped being good at basketball as soon as he was asked to play for anything more than own stats. Literally guy went from near 20 ppg on tanker to shooting 17% FG in playoffs.


He comes nowhere near Magic Bad 3:

- Mo Bamba- guy was 6th pick in louded draft with several future hall of famers, including probably best player in the world today as his alternative.

- Markelle Fultz- low stake trade that turned into Maxey for 76ers, ugly overpay that followed and half of a decade watching grainy stock footage in summer in endless debates did he fix his shot. During times Magic had salary cap, they paid cumulative $21M for two years to Fultz who suited up grand total of 22 times.
Post trade ( 2019) Magic also paid him $9M and he didn't even suit up. Recovered from alleged shoulder injury. You know, one that never recoverd fom...v Cumulative $30M of cap spent on 22 games over 3 years. But why stop there? Better resign him, right Weltman?


- Elfrid Payton - lottery pick-Magic gave back 2018 -76ers pick to move up 1 spot in draft and traded Payton for Šarić. For next 4 and half years he was starter as by far worst starter each and every year.



Given investments, amount of wasted time and fact all 3 of them literally went from being starters / rotation players for Magic- to be jobless within a year proves how terrible they actually were.

Payton- played 24 nba games in past 3 yeras. Once again out of nba, this time around probably for good.
Fultz- out of nba, played 21 games for Kings after Magic.
Mo Bamba - 4 teams gave him chance and cut/traded him post Magic. Out of nba.


Quick sum up:

10th pick -2014
6th pick 2018
76ers pick 2018
Oklahoma City 2020 pick

Turned into:
Suns second round pick ( Vanderbilt , but traded to guy that will never step foot in nba - Jackson )
pick swap in 2030
Patrick Beverly ( cut on spot)

Literally two lottery picks and one "star we had all along" traded into nothigness. But yea, "Evan Fournier"

[3ddman23]

Fournier.... The fact that this guy was our starting sg(essentially go to scorer) for 7 seasons is just truly unbelievable when looking back at it.

That's nonsense.

Evan was traded for Afflalo who stopped being good at basketball as soon as he was asked to play for anything more than own stats. Literally guy went from near 20 ppg on tanker to shooting 17% FG in playoffs.


He comes nowhere near Magic Bad 3:

- Mo Bamba- guy was 6th pick in louded draft with several future hall of famers, including probably best player in the world today as his alternative.

- Markelle Fultz- low stake trade that turned into Maxey for 76ers, ugly overpay that followed and half of a decade watching grainy stock footage in summer in endless debates did he fix his shot. During times Magic had salary cap, they paid cumulative $21M for two years to Fultz who suited up grand total of 22 times.
Post trade ( 2019) Magic also paid him $9M and he didn't even suit up. Recovered from alleged shoulder injury. You know, one that never recoverd fom...v Cumulative $30M of cap spent on 22 games over 3 years. But why stop there? Better resign him, right Weltman?


- Elfrid Payton - lottery pick-Magic gave back 2018 -76ers pick to move up 1 spot in draft and traded Payton for Šarić. For next 4 and half years he was starter as by far worst starter each and every year.



Given investments, amount of wasted time and fact all 3 of them literally went from being starters / rotation players for Magic- to be jobless within a year proves how terrible they actually were.

Payton- played 24 nba games in past 3 yeras. Once again out of nba, this time around probably for good.
Fultz- out of nba, played 21 games for Kings after Magic.
Mo Bamba - 4 teams gave him chance and cut/traded him post Magic. Out of nba.


Quick sum up:

10th pick -2014
6th pick 2018
76ers pick 2018
Oklahoma City 2020 pick

Turned into:
Suns second round pick ( Vanderbilt , but traded to guy that will never step foot in nba - Jackson )
pick swap in 2030
Patrick Beverly ( cut on spot)

Literally two lottery picks and one "star we had all along" traded into nothigness. But yea, "Evan Fournier"

I never said it being #1... What I'm saying is the decision to keep this guy as our starting sg for 6-8 seasons, essentially being the magic go to scorer is just absolutely absurd. It is without question one of the most ridiculous decisions this organization has made.

Tons of other garbage happened but keeping this guy as long as the magic did is truly unbelievable.

We never know what the picks will become in the future. We know damn well Evan Fournier shouldn't have been our go to scorer/starting sg for 7 seasons.

[eyriq]

What moves post-Dwight do you think belong on a top ten most detrimental list? I'll start:

1. The Serge Ibaka Gambit (2016–17)
This marked a shift from patience to panic. It was a multi-stage blunder that resulted in Orlando trading away Oladipo, Ilyasova, and Sabonis for Terrence Ross and a pick that was eventually flipped for Markelle Fultz.

2. 2016 Free Agency Lunacy
The win-now mindset led to squandering massive cap flexibility on Bismack Biyombo and Jeff Green. The resulting logjam stifled Aaron Gordon’s development. A nonsensical strategy.

3. Coaching Instability (2012–2018)
Rotating through Jacque Vaughn, Scott Skiles, and Frank Vogel, each with different systems and philosophies, created chaos and undermined player development.

4. Tobias Harris Salary Dump (Feb 2016)
Just months after extending a then-23-year-old Harris, Orlando traded him for Brandon Jennings and Ersan Ilyasova to appease Skiles. A short-sighted move with little long-term value.

5. J.J. Redick Trade (Feb 2013)
They traded Redick, Gustavo Ayón, and Ish Smith for Beno Udrih, Doron Lamb, and 20-year-old Tobias Harris. While Harris had upside, Redick was in the middle of a career year. He was one of the league’s elite shooters, a rare archetype, homegrown, and a fan favorite. Context matters.

6. Elfrid Payton Trade-Up (2014)
Orlando gave up the #12 pick (Dario Šarić), a future first, and a second-rounder to move up two spots for Payton, who turned out to be a bust. Brutal opportunity cost.

7. Drafting Mario Hezonja (2015)
Busts happen, but missing on Devin Booker is a gut punch. High opportunity cost.

8. Channing Frye Signing and Giveaway (2014–16)
They overpaid Frye in free agency for leadership and floor-spacing. Then they reversed course and dumped him for Jared Cunningham and a future second. Poor asset management.

9. Aaron Gordon Trade (Mar 2021)
While a rebuild was underway, the return for Gordon — Gary Harris, R.J. Hampton, and a future first (Jayson “Jase” Richardson) — felt underwhelming given his market value.

10. Drafting Andrew Nicholson (2012)
Using the 19th pick on Nicholson, who ultimately busted, isn’t egregious by itself. But passing on Fournier, Draymond Green, Khris Middleton, and Will Barton? Yikes.

Some of these aren't that bad IMO.

The worst thing by a wide margin was Hennigan losing his mind and destroying his own rebuild to try and placate Skiles and later ownership.

On Opening Night 2015, this was the Magic's depth chart...

Starters: Payton, Oladipo, Fournier, Harris, Vucevic
Reserves: Watson, Hezonja, Gordon, Frye, Dedmon

There's really nothing wrong with this team at all. It's young and growing.

But Skiles hated the team and eventually complained to the point where Hennigan traded Harris for two expiring contracts.

Then ownership was so aghast that Skiles quit and wanted accountability for Hennigan, Rob decided to trade Oladipo and the 11th pick (Sabonis) for Ibaka and then use the free agency windfall to sign Biyombo, Augustin and Green.

So in one year they went from the depth chart listed above with another lottery pick incoming to...

Payton, Fournier, Gordon, Ibaka, Vucevic
Augustin, Hezonja, Green, Biyombo

A much worse and much lower upside team.

Soul crushing sequence and I agree 100% with your framing.

[eyriq]

This thread is hilarious for a number of reasons.

First, I’m surprised you of all people made it considering how even mods here will $hit their pants and roll their eyes for discussing anything related to poor past decisions for the millionth time. Like decisions in the last 5 seasons have zero influence on current on court product relating to bench depth.

That being said…

It’s also funny how “post-Dwight” nothing is mentioned in this current iteration of the FO as being a top 10 worst move aside from AG at 9.

Now, that’s either because you are an agenda baiting poster or you copy and pasted some chat GPT garbage to keep the offseason interesting. Probably both.

You could argue about 3-4 decisions in the first 3-4 years of Weltmans tenure should be making this list but you would never add those bc it goes against 4D chess move calculations you attributed to the current FO.

AG/ Fournier trade timeline and return
Bamba pick as BPA
Fultz trade + extension
No established point guard during Paolo/Franz initial development
3-4 cumulative botched picks during current rebuild + srp deck shuffling for limited return.

Take your pick.

Appreciate the energy but you’re reaching. Most of the top ten comes from Hennigan because that’s when the truly damaging moves happened. Trading Oladipo and Sabonis for a rental is not the same as missing on BPA or holding scrubs too long. You’re blurring the line between a misstep and a disaster.

[pepe1991]

Fournier.... The fact that this guy was our starting sg(essentially go to scorer) for 7 seasons is just truly unbelievable when looking back at it.

That's nonsense.

Evan was traded for Afflalo who stopped being good at basketball as soon as he was asked to play for anything more than own stats. Literally guy went from near 20 ppg on tanker to shooting 17% FG in playoffs.


He comes nowhere near Magic Bad 3:

- Mo Bamba- guy was 6th pick in louded draft with several future hall of famers, including probably best player in the world today as his alternative.

- Markelle Fultz- low stake trade that turned into Maxey for 76ers, ugly overpay that followed and half of a decade watching grainy stock footage in summer in endless debates did he fix his shot. During times Magic had salary cap, they paid cumulative $21M for two years to Fultz who suited up grand total of 22 times.
Post trade ( 2019) Magic also paid him $9M and he didn't even suit up. Recovered from alleged shoulder injury. You know, one that never recoverd fom...v Cumulative $30M of cap spent on 22 games over 3 years. But why stop there? Better resign him, right Weltman?


- Elfrid Payton - lottery pick-Magic gave back 2018 -76ers pick to move up 1 spot in draft and traded Payton for Šarić. For next 4 and half years he was starter as by far worst starter each and every year.



Given investments, amount of wasted time and fact all 3 of them literally went from being starters / rotation players for Magic- to be jobless within a year proves how terrible they actually were.

Payton- played 24 nba games in past 3 yeras. Once again out of nba, this time around probably for good.
Fultz- out of nba, played 21 games for Kings after Magic.
Mo Bamba - 4 teams gave him chance and cut/traded him post Magic. Out of nba.


Quick sum up:

10th pick -2014
6th pick 2018
76ers pick 2018
Oklahoma City 2020 pick

Turned into:
Suns second round pick ( Vanderbilt , but traded to guy that will never step foot in nba - Jackson )
pick swap in 2030
Patrick Beverly ( cut on spot)

Literally two lottery picks and one "star we had all along" traded into nothigness. But yea, "Evan Fournier"

I never said it being #1... What I'm saying is the decision to keep this guy as our starting sg for 6-8 seasons, essentially being the magic go to scorer is just absolutely absurd. It is without question one of the most ridiculous decisions this organization has made.

Tons of other garbage happened but keeping this guy as long as the magic did is truly unbelievable.

We never know what the picks will become in the future. We know damn well Evan Fournier shouldn't have been our go to scorer/starting sg for 7 seasons.

He was leading scorer not because team wanted him to be one, but because he was one of few players actually capable of scoring with any sort of efficiency.

2014-15: 4th in FGA, 6th in Usage- but 3rd in scoring (6th in efficiency)- 54,6% TS
2015-16: 3rd in FGA, 7th in usage - but 3rd in scoring ( 2# in efficiency) -58,7% TS
2016-17: tied with most shots- but almost 3 ppg more than other guy, second in usage, 3rd in efficiency- 55,5% TS
2017-18: 3rd in FGA, but leading scorer, 4th in usage, 3rd in efficiency- 57,7% TS
2018-19: 3rd in FGA, 3rd in scoring, 3rd in usage, 10th in efficiency - 53,6% TS
2019-20: 2# in FGA and ppg, second in usage, 1# in efficiency- 59,5% TS


Just to draw line:
2013-14 Oladipo 4th in scoring, 3rd in FGA, leading in usage, 8th in efficiency (51,4%)
2014-15, Oladipo second in scoring, FGA, near tied in usage...8th in efficiency (52,7% TS)
2015-16: Oladipo second in scoring, FGA, second in usage.... 8th in efficiency (53,4% TS)


Tobby Harris highest efficiency on Magic- 55% TS
Aaron Gordon highest efficiency on Magic- 53,8% TS
Elf highest efficiency on Magic -53,8% ( career 48,6% BTW )
Vuc highest efficiency on Magic before breakout -54,8% TS



And this becomes is self explenatory. There was never "plan" for Evan to become go -to option, it happened by accident, as each and every high investment guy continued to suck. Like, Oladipo was drafted to be that new Wade , Payton to be floor general, Vuc to be scorer, Gordon to be forward of future... But Oladipo literally on his best day was worst at scoring than Evan on his worst.
Payton's terrible defense was only matched by his even worst pick&roll defense.
Vuc was terrible until 2018-19 as he just took s*** loud of mid range jumpers without FTA.

Toby Harris wasn't bad, but also wasn't some versitale scoring option.

Evan was simply better offensive player than any of them. That's simply reality. Not nice one, but reality. I mean, guy on his worst season was better than almost all of them in their bests

[Knightro]

Biyombo didn't even get paid off the back of an entire playoff run. He got paid off the back of 1.5 playoff series after Valanciunas got hurt.

[pepe1991]

This thread is hilarious for a number of reasons.

First, I’m surprised you of all people made it considering how even mods here will $hit their pants and roll their eyes for discussing anything related to poor past decisions for the millionth time. Like decisions in the last 5 seasons have zero influence on current on court product relating to bench depth.

That being said…

It’s also funny how “post-Dwight” nothing is mentioned in this current iteration of the FO as being a top 10 worst move aside from AG at 9.

Now, that’s either because you are an agenda baiting poster or you copy and pasted some chat GPT garbage to keep the offseason interesting. Probably both.

You could argue about 3-4 decisions in the first 3-4 years of Weltmans tenure should be making this list but you would never add those bc it goes against 4D chess move calculations you attributed to the current FO.

AG/ Fournier trade timeline and return
Bamba pick as BPA
Fultz trade + extension
No established point guard during Paolo/Franz initial development
3-4 cumulative botched picks during current rebuild + srp deck shuffling for limited return.

Take your pick.

Appreciate the energy but you’re reaching. Most of the top ten comes from Hennigan because that’s when the truly damaging moves happened. Trading Oladipo and Sabonis for a rental is not the same as missing on BPA or holding scrubs too long. You’re blurring the line between a misstep and a disaster.

Oladipo was also rental.
After 3rd year in a row of showing nothing but being high usage, low efficiency, no-floor-raising skills he wanted max deal.

Sabonis was never Magic player. Sabonis is guy who Presti told Magic to draft in order to make a trade.


Oladipo was only motivated by money and nothing else. That's why he was delusional enough to reject $113M exst. from Pacers after his body already broke down.

[eyriq]

This thread is hilarious for a number of reasons.

First, I’m surprised you of all people made it considering how even mods here will $hit their pants and roll their eyes for discussing anything related to poor past decisions for the millionth time. Like decisions in the last 5 seasons have zero influence on current on court product relating to bench depth.

That being said…

It’s also funny how “post-Dwight” nothing is mentioned in this current iteration of the FO as being a top 10 worst move aside from AG at 9.

Now, that’s either because you are an agenda baiting poster or you copy and pasted some chat GPT garbage to keep the offseason interesting. Probably both.

You could argue about 3-4 decisions in the first 3-4 years of Weltmans tenure should be making this list but you would never add those bc it goes against 4D chess move calculations you attributed to the current FO.

AG/ Fournier trade timeline and return
Bamba pick as BPA
Fultz trade + extension
No established point guard during Paolo/Franz initial development
3-4 cumulative botched picks during current rebuild + srp deck shuffling for limited return.

Take your pick.

Appreciate the energy but you’re reaching. Most of the top ten comes from Hennigan because that’s when the truly damaging moves happened. Trading Oladipo and Sabonis for a rental is not the same as missing on BPA or holding scrubs too long. You’re blurring the line between a misstep and a disaster.

Oladipo was also rental.
After 3rd year in a row of showing nothing but being high usage, low efficiency, no-floor-raising skills he wanted max deal.

Sabonis was never Magic player. Sabonis is guy who Presti told Magic to draft in order to make a trade.


Oladipo was only motivated by money and nothing else. That's why he was delusional enough to reject $113M exst. from Pacers after his body already broke down.

Oladipo had a year left and was still seen as a valuable young guard. Sabonis was our pick and turned into a two-time All-Star. That trade kickstarted OKC’s Paul George deal, which turned into Shai and a mountain of picks. We got 56 games of Ibaka and ended up with Terrence Ross. That’s the gap in value we’re talking about.

[three3d]

50 comments in and nobody mentioned Jet Howard’s name yet

[j-ragg]

Rarely (never?) moving up in the lotto hurt as well. Combined with the Lakers never having to give us their lotto pick really hurt. Gotta have luck on your side somewhat.

[drsd]

Fournier.... The fact that this guy was our starting sg(essentially go to scorer) for 7 seasons is just truly unbelievable when looking back at it.

His "worst" season as a starter he was a 15.1 ppg guy. He averaged aboubt 17 ppg as a Magic starter.

For comparison, an average NBA starting SG puts up 15 ppg. Thus, Fournier was always a bit better than an aveage starting SG in the NBA.
Plus: he was missued as a SF a couple years.

In conclusion, it is not unbelievable, at all.

[drsd]

I never said it being #1... What I'm saying is the decision to keep this guy as our starting sg for 6-8 seasons, essentially being the magic go to scorer is just absolutely absurd. It is without question one of the most ridiculous decisions this organization has made.

You know he was a 18.5 ppg giy in is pentultimate Magic season and was at 19.7 ppg his final season. This is what Orlando dream Bane can produce.

The problem was that the Magic lacked a PG and missued Fournier as a SF, not that he "existed" on the roster.

[pepe1991]

Appreciate the energy but you’re reaching. Most of the top ten comes from Hennigan because that’s when the truly damaging moves happened. Trading Oladipo and Sabonis for a rental is not the same as missing on BPA or holding scrubs too long. You’re blurring the line between a misstep and a disaster.

Oladipo was also rental.
After 3rd year in a row of showing nothing but being high usage, low efficiency, no-floor-raising skills he wanted max deal.

Sabonis was never Magic player. Sabonis is guy who Presti told Magic to draft in order to make a trade.


Oladipo was only motivated by money and nothing else. That's why he was delusional enough to reject $113M exst. from Pacers after his body already broke down.

Oladipo had a year left and was still seen as a valuable young guard. Sabonis was our pick and turned into a two-time All-Star. That trade kickstarted OKC’s Paul George deal, which turned into Shai and a mountain of picks. We got 56 games of Ibaka and ended up with Terrence Ross. That’s the gap in value we’re talking about.

He was player who finished 3rd year and was eligible for new contract.

"Year left" is same year Ibaka had. Both were heading into FA after next year. It wasn't secret what Oladipo wanted. Max or near max.


Sabonis wasn't our pick, it was well reported. Hennigan later backtracked it and said he would draft Sabonis as well even if he wasn't traded.

Case and point:

Orlando general manager Rob Hennigan said he had been having exploratory talks with Oklahoma City for a while but that they took a serious turn Thursday afternoon.

Shai? Guy drafted 11th in year where Magic had no PG and 6th pick? Only moron would pass on that. Right?



Btw Oladipo & Sabo for George trade was also - a rental. At times it was well reported that George wanted to go to LA. He only had 1 year left on his deal, but OKC took him and signed him on new deal. After 1 years of new deal, George indeed - left to play for Clippers.

Presti was just always ahead of everything and flat oute mastermind in terms of flipping talent for even more talent. Not kind a guy who drafs guy in lottery and sends him to G league

[eyriq]

Oladipo was also rental.
After 3rd year in a row of showing nothing but being high usage, low efficiency, no-floor-raising skills he wanted max deal.

Sabonis was never Magic player. Sabonis is guy who Presti told Magic to draft in order to make a trade.


Oladipo was only motivated by money and nothing else. That's why he was delusional enough to reject $113M exst. from Pacers after his body already broke down.

Oladipo had a year left and was still seen as a valuable young guard. Sabonis was our pick and turned into a two-time All-Star. That trade kickstarted OKC’s Paul George deal, which turned into Shai and a mountain of picks. We got 56 games of Ibaka and ended up with Terrence Ross. That’s the gap in value we’re talking about.

He was player who finished 3rd year and was eligible for new contract.

"Year left" is same year Ibaka had. Both were heading into FA after next year. It wasn't secret what Oladipo wanted. Max or near max.


Sabonis wasn't our pick, it was well reported. Hennigan later backtracked it and said he would draft Sabonis as well even if he wasn't traded.

Case and point:

Orlando general manager Rob Hennigan said he had been having exploratory talks with Oklahoma City for a while but that they took a serious turn Thursday afternoon.

Shai? Guy drafted 11th in year where Magic had no PG and 6th pick? Only moron would pass on that. Right?



Btw Oladipo & Sabo for George trade was also - a rental. At times it was well reported that George wanted to go to LA. He only had 1 year left on his deal, but OKC took him and signed him on new deal. After 1 years of new deal, George indeed - left to play for Clippers.

Presti was just always ahead of everything and flat oute mastermind in terms of flipping talent for even more talent. Not kind a guy who drafs guy in lottery and sends him to G league

Carrying water for the guy who lit the rebuild on fire while nitpicking the front office that actually dug us out of that mess is pure intellectual bankruptcy. Hennigan turned prime assets into a rental and a bench scorer. Weltman turned that rubble into Franz, Paolo, and a legit foundation. If you're defending the guy who gave up Oladipo and Sabonis for 56 games of Ibaka...

[drsd]

Shai? Guy drafted 11th in year where Magic had no PG and 6th pick? Only moron would pass on that. Right?

And-1

It was widely rumoured that Cleveland wanted to trade up from 8 to 6. And there was clear interest from Orlando in Gilgeous-Alexander.
Heck, Orlando could have traded the 6 to Philly at 10 and ended up with Gilgeous-Alexander.

Yes he was perceived as a reach at 6, but the Magic had asset options to gain him.

....

Unrelated: we are now in a world where Dončić might go second in a redraft of 2018. That's how good Gilgeous-Alexander now is.
And I was hoping the Magic would trade Gordon, Isaac and the #6 for the rights to Dončić. Trading down was the better dream-move over trading up.

[Bensational]

Fournier.... The fact that this guy was our starting sg(essentially go to scorer) for 7 seasons is just truly unbelievable when looking back at it.

That's nonsense.

Evan was traded for Afflalo who stopped being good at basketball as soon as he was asked to play for anything more than own stats. Literally guy went from near 20 ppg on tanker to shooting 17% FG in playoffs.


He comes nowhere near Magic Bad 3:

- Mo Bamba- guy was 6th pick in louded draft with several future hall of famers, including probably best player in the world today as his alternative.

- Markelle Fultz- low stake trade that turned into Maxey for 76ers, ugly overpay that followed and half of a decade watching grainy stock footage in summer in endless debates did he fix his shot. During times Magic had salary cap, they paid cumulative $21M for two years to Fultz who suited up grand total of 22 times.
Post trade ( 2019) Magic also paid him $9M and he didn't even suit up. Recovered from alleged shoulder injury. You know, one that never recoverd fom...v Cumulative $30M of cap spent on 22 games over 3 years. But why stop there? Better resign him, right Weltman?


- Elfrid Payton - lottery pick-Magic gave back 2018 -76ers pick to move up 1 spot in draft and traded Payton for Šarić. For next 4 and half years he was starter as by far worst starter each and every year.



Given investments, amount of wasted time and fact all 3 of them literally went from being starters / rotation players for Magic- to be jobless within a year proves how terrible they actually were.

Payton- played 24 nba games in past 3 yeras. Once again out of nba, this time around probably for good.
Fultz- out of nba, played 21 games for Kings after Magic.
Mo Bamba - 4 teams gave him chance and cut/traded him post Magic. Out of nba.


Quick sum up:

10th pick -2014
6th pick 2018
76ers pick 2018
Oklahoma City 2020 pick

Turned into:
Suns second round pick ( Vanderbilt , but traded to guy that will never step foot in nba - Jackson )
pick swap in 2030
Patrick Beverly ( cut on spot)

Literally two lottery picks and one "star we had all along" traded into nothigness. But yea, "Evan Fournier"

The difference was those guys were all ‘prospects’ whilst with the Magic, and Fournier was regarded as “good”. Reality is we’ve seen all of them post-Magic now, and it’s clear Fournier considered himself a starting level wing but NBA franchises disagreed, and now he’s out of the league.

Bamba was 7ft with a 7-10 wingspan, he could hit 3’s, block shots, and he had a 4.0GPA. That’s an understandable gamble. An absolute bust of a pick with SGA still on the board, but an understandable gamble.

Fultz being traded “for pick that became Maxey” is such a dumb criticism when you fail to mention that we still had the 16th pick and we took Cole over Maxey. Fultz wasn’t responsible for us missing Maxey, the choice to select Cole was.

Payton… I hope one day I can learn what was up with him. He just stopped trying to improve his game for some reason. Was a good defender his first 2 years then he stopped trying. Never tried to get serious about 3pt shooting. He’s still elite at racking up assists (7apg in 20mpg last season after 3 years out of the league), but whatever is going on in his head puts limitations on his own game.

The reason the Vuc-Fournier buddyball era is the darkest in recent Magic history is because both were play-in or 8th seed starting talent at their peaks and people kept trying to excuse away their limitations by blaming it on their supporting casts. They’ve both had the benefit of playing in lots of different lineups since, and their limitations are still there and glaringly obvious. They were both just as bad and overrated as any of the busts that have come and gone. None of them are starting calibre players on a winning team.

[drsd]

The reason the Vuc-Fournier buddyball era is the darkest in recent Magic history is because both were play-in or 8th seed starting talent at their peaks and people kept trying to excuse away their limitations by blaming it on their supporting casts.

I will never, ever agree with this.

For me, Vučević was one of the best rebounders in the league, AND had a good offensive game. And Fournier was a top10 SG in the league. Neither an ace, but both players that could be part of a contender roster.

For me the Magic had 4 problems around Vučević and Fournier. i) the Magic had no PG. ii) The Magic had no SF (and thus Fournier was out of position). iii) depth was so poor that bench players (i.e. Ross) had to start and/or scrubs were playing on the bench. iv) all of this meant Gordon was a terrible fit with Vučević and Fournier.

In conclusion: Vučević and Fournier are not a buddy-system to build a team around; but they were not the reason the Magic was a perennial 8-seed. Even today, Vučević has NBA value, for example.

p.s. a "image" search of "Fournier" still has the top-10 images as the answer to "don't google me".
Seriously, how much pain must that be? 12 on a 10 point scale ?????

[j-ragg]

Oladipo had a year left and was still seen as a valuable young guard. Sabonis was our pick and turned into a two-time All-Star. That trade kickstarted OKC’s Paul George deal, which turned into Shai and a mountain of picks. We got 56 games of Ibaka and ended up with Terrence Ross. That’s the gap in value we’re talking about.

He was player who finished 3rd year and was eligible for new contract.

"Year left" is same year Ibaka had. Both were heading into FA after next year. It wasn't secret what Oladipo wanted. Max or near max.


Sabonis wasn't our pick, it was well reported. Hennigan later backtracked it and said he would draft Sabonis as well even if he wasn't traded.

Case and point:

Orlando general manager Rob Hennigan said he had been having exploratory talks with Oklahoma City for a while but that they took a serious turn Thursday afternoon.

Shai? Guy drafted 11th in year where Magic had no PG and 6th pick? Only moron would pass on that. Right?



Btw Oladipo & Sabo for George trade was also - a rental. At times it was well reported that George wanted to go to LA. He only had 1 year left on his deal, but OKC took him and signed him on new deal. After 1 years of new deal, George indeed - left to play for Clippers.

Presti was just always ahead of everything and flat oute mastermind in terms of flipping talent for even more talent. Not kind a guy who drafs guy in lottery and sends him to G league

Carrying water for the guy who lit the rebuild on fire while nitpicking the front office that actually dug us out of that mess is pure intellectual bankruptcy. Hennigan turned prime assets into a rental and a bench scorer. Weltman turned that rubble into Franz, Paolo, and a legit foundation. If you're defending the guy who gave up Oladipo and Sabonis for 56 games of Ibaka...

I mean it couldn’t have been that bad right? Weltman kept the Hennigan core for another 4 years.