2012 Orland Magic NBA draft thread ...

Neon1 · Post #401 » by **Neon1** » Sat May 26, 2012 6:10 pm

The thing with Wroten is that if you just go by READING his scouting reports, you will be like omg why isnt this guy a lotto pick he sounds amazing, but when you watch him play nothing matches up to what you read. The athleticism, ball handling and court vision all seem extremly over hyped for what you actually see.

Tony Wroten: Passing
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twSOjSGa_zw&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
To me, Wroten is what i call a top of the key passer. Very simple. Think of the way Chris Duhon gets the ball to people, just dribbles over and makes the easy pass to his left or right. Doesnt hardly create a shot for somebody else by a penatrate then make the opposition commit then pass for an open layup.

Tony Wroten: Ball Handling
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iInxlqTY__Q&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
I honestly feel like Wroten's ball handling and advanced moves are very overated AS A POINT GUARD. I feel like his ball handling would be very effective vs SG's as they are slower defenders. Wroten doesnt play with blazing quickness to create many "blow bye" chances like you would see with a Westbrook or Derrick Rose type. He completely dominates the ball with his dribble moves a lot of the moves are a standstill, which is doing nothing besides stalling the flow (think Steve Francis).

Tony Wroten: Shooting
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8NoDT0b9-g&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
per36: Overpowers smaller PG's to get to the FT line at an amazing 8.9 times a game, But when you only connect on 58% of them....its a detriment.

Shot 16% from the much shorter NCAA three (Long mid range in NBA). That is...just mindblowing.

Has a true shooting of 48.8% and a effective fga of 45.3% which is crazy low for somebody that is going to dominate the ball (31.1 usg%) and take many shots for himself the bulk of his time.

Tony Wroten: Athleticsm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b70O_wZ-T4&feature=plcp[/youtube]
He is a above average athlete imo, not the super athlete he gets written up to be. He is not very explosive in traffic imo.

Neon1 · Post #402 » by **Neon1** » Sat May 26, 2012 6:14 pm

Nemesis21 wrote:People are complaining that he isn't the best shooter, defender, lacks athleticism, these are things that he can improve with coaching, practice and hard work. However he is the best floor general, passing PG in this draft with high basketball IQ and great court vision. This team has lacked a true floor general/passing PG since D12 has been here. Every mock site compares him to Andre Miller, Jason Kidd and Marc Jackson.

Of those three, Unless we are ONLY talking about an OFFENSIVE comparison, only Marc Jackson is comparable (minus Jackson's exellent offensive post up game). Kidd and Miller do much more in other areas of the game, on both ends and glass.

Neon1 · Post #403 » by **Neon1** » Sat May 26, 2012 6:23 pm

Here is what i was talking about as far as being a creator off the dribble at PG.

Compare Wroten to a guy like Austin Rivers who seemingly NOBODY but me thinks his best transition to make would be to playing a pick and roll/iso Westbrook/Rose style PG in the NBA.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPI1ExH32Hg&feature=plcp[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00oTfCihkgs&feature=plcp[/youtube]
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oSc4o6nva3w[/youtube]

It will take a good coach with patience to give him time to develop into a PG full time with growing pains, like what OKC did with Westbrook, but i see his PG potential as top flight.

Neon1 · Post #404 » by **Neon1** » Sat May 26, 2012 6:38 pm

Ahmadab wrote:http://espn.go.com/video/clip?id=7974075

T-Ross in a workout

love that kids overall game. Pretty complete player. Just needs more handles.

The1llness · Post #405 » by **The1llness** » Sat May 26, 2012 7:42 pm

Neon1 wrote:The thing with Wroten is that if you just go by READING his scouting reports, you will be like omg why isnt this guy a lotto pick he sounds amazing, but when you watch him play nothing matches up to what you read. The athleticism, ball handling and court vision all seem extremly over hyped for what you actually see.

Tony Wroten: Passing
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twSOjSGa_zw&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
To me, Wroten is what i call a top of the key passer. Very simple. Think of the way Chris Duhon gets the ball to people, just dribbles over and makes the easy pass to his left or right. Doesnt hardly create a shot for somebody else by a penatrate then make the opposition commit then pass for an open layup.

Tony Wroten: Ball Handling
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iInxlqTY__Q&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
I honestly feel like Wroten's ball handling and advanced moves are very overated AS A POINT GUARD. I feel like his ball handling would be very effective vs SG's as they are slower defenders. Wroten doesnt play with blazing quickness to create many "blow bye" chances like you would see with a Westbrook or Derrick Rose type. He completely dominates the ball with his dribble moves a lot of the moves are a standstill, which is doing nothing besides stalling the flow (think Steve Francis).

Tony Wroten: Shooting
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8NoDT0b9-g&feature=relmfu[/youtube]
per36: Overpowers smaller PG's to get to the FT line at an amazing 8.9 times a game, But when you only connect on 58% of them....its a detriment.

Shot 16% from the much shorter NCAA three (Long mid range in NBA). That is...just mindblowing.

Has a true shooting of 48.8% and a effective fga of 45.3% which is crazy low for somebody that is going to dominate the ball (31.1 usg%) and take many shots for himself the bulk of his time.

Tony Wroten: Athleticsm
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0b70O_wZ-T4&feature=plcp[/youtube]
He is a above average athlete imo, not the super athlete he gets written up to be. He is not very explosive in traffic imo.

I agree, Wroten's athleticism is very overrated and he isn't Westbrook or Rose by any means but really how many people in the league are? His ball handling skills (with his left hand) and passing I think are superb for some one of his size, regardless of position.

Again, he isn't going to be a lottery pick because he has high bust potential and there are plenty of other players in the lotto who have as much potential but less aspects of their game they need to work on. The guy is a turnover machine, is limited to his right hand which hinders his PnR ability and can't shoot worth a lick but he still has what the Magic need is his ability to drive to the lane. The kids only 19 so I think he has a chance of getting it all together after a couple of NBA season and he'll still only be in his early 20's. But like I said earlier, I think a team takes a flyer on him in the mid-first round.

Post #406 » by **Def Swami** » Sat May 26, 2012 8:31 pm

I think Marshall's inability to shoot is overstated. He can shoot decently, but he never showed range in college. Jason Kidd, Marc Jackson, Rajon Rondo, and Tony Parker didn't come into the league with great shooting either, but all found ways to be impact guys. I think when you look at draft prospects you have to look at their workouts closely. Thomas Robinson had a mild mid-range game in college and now scouts are being wowed by his ability to shoot the 3. Unfortunately for Marshall, he probably won't get a chance to showcase that due to his injury, and it's fine with me if he falls because of that. I've seen that he's capable of hitting a mid-range J. Probably not a 3, yet.

Teague, imo, is just a carbon copy of his brother. Nothing really special. Shooting can be learned. However, I think the great point guards in the league have the coveted ability to pass the rock, get teammates easy buckets, and have good court vision. Those things are far more difficult to teach (see Jameer). Marshall's passing and ability to control tempo and be a floor leader is far superior to a lot of point guards in the game today.

Post #407 » by **Def Swami** » Sat May 26, 2012 8:37 pm

Our offseason plan (who we sign/waive/trade) will really dictate who we draft imo. If we need a point guard and Marshall is available, then I think we take him. If we have a PG or Marshall is taken before 19, I think we go for an athletic SF, hopefully Ross.

Neon1 · Post #408 » by **Neon1** » Sat May 26, 2012 9:42 pm

VGOSWAMI wrote:Our offseason plan (who we sign/waive/trade) will really dictate who we draft imo. If we need a point guard and Marshall is available, then I think we take him. If we have a PG or Marshall is taken before 19, I think we go for an athletic SF, hopefully Ross.

Ross is a SG. Marshall is gone in late lotto IMO.

londoncollin · Post #409 » by **londoncollin** » Sun May 27, 2012 1:11 am

If Ross is available, he's gotta be taken.

BadMofoPimp · Post #410 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Sun May 27, 2012 2:41 am

I think the Magic should package their first round pick to move a player like Duhon, Hedo or JRich or with Ryno (S&T) and maybe JRich for a real Good player (Ellis).

Post #411 » by **Def Swami** » Sun May 27, 2012 3:12 am

BadMofoPimp wrote:I think the Magic should package their first round pick to move a player like Duhon, Hedo or JRich or with Ryno (S&T) and maybe JRich for a real Good player (Ellis).

I've been saying, if we're going to land a big fish, it's going to take JJ/BBD/19th pick and probably taking back a bad contract.

IGotDaMagicInMe · Post #412 » by **IGotDaMagicInMe** » Sun May 27, 2012 7:22 am

Is anybody interested in drafting royce white in the 1st and machado in the 2nd?

drsd · Post #413 » by **drsd** » Sun May 27, 2012 11:35 am

The O-Sen has a speculative story where NJ wins the lottery and the Magic trade for Davis.

O-Sen LINK

If Orlando is going to full rebuild mode, then why not add a Nelson trade to a #9-#14 team to also tab either Kendall Marshall or Damian Lillard? This would really be like resetting the clock to the draft for Nelson and Howard. But the Magic would start with more talent at other positions. And with #19 the Magic could make a need-selection with either Meyers Leonard or Fab Melo at Center. Melo is more likely to be on the board and I will slot him.

A team with .... :
Marshall/Duhon/Smith
Redick/Wafer (I have Richardson-2 traded out here)
Turkoglu/Richardson/Liggins
Davis-2/Harper (I have Anderson traded out here)
Davis-1/Melo, a scrub combo big

... would be fun to watch, would loose a behind-load of games, and would be well set for the future. (and the comedy antics of Duhon would continue!). I guess Liggins and Harper would be semi-core in this rebuild, and the young guns are: Marshall, Liggins, Davis, Harper, and Melo.

..

ChildishGambino · Post #414 » by **ChildishGambino** » Sun May 27, 2012 5:15 pm

I doubt Marshall is going to be there at 19 and to be honest i would hate that pick.....If New Jersey gets that pick i think a deal is probably going to be made.....sucks to lose Dwight it really does but if we have to lose Dwight i want something back in return other than just memories....Getting Davis/Lopez and Brooks would kinda give us a headstart in the rebuild....If i had my way....

Teague/Smith
Brooks/Wafer
Mcgrady/Liggins
A. Davis/Anderson
Lopez/Second round draft pick

Don't know how much wins that team gets but i would still be interested to watch them play....I'm done with Nelson...Draft teague if he's still there....Marshall would be nice if Dwight is Still on the roster...but if we trade Dwight to the nets....no reason to draft Marshall....Brooks at the starting SG spot is a given for me....Shades of young Kobe...nuff said....Mcgrady is the obligatory Vet all teams have.....except this time he has history here....he might be able to put some butts in the seats on nostalgia alone maybe? Solid upgrade from Turk imo at the 3.....

Now Anthony Davis at that Starting 4 spot is probably wishful thinking but i would like to see what the kid could do....I would trade Big Baby and keep Anderson because if we're getting Anthony Davis he's basically the franchise going forward don't know if Glen could handle playing behind a Rookie....Finally Brook Lopez at the Center spot....call him soft or whatever but.....Big Men are a premium in the league today....especially skilled ones like Brook....He'll give you 20 points a night and Anthony Davis will erase defensive mistakes...best of both worlds.....

now of course i highly Doubt the Nets get the first pick but that's exactly what i said before Cleveland won the first pick.....stranger things have happened....wouldn't it be hilarious if things turned out that way.....would be a field day for people that say the draft is rigged.....

Just Plain Mark · Post #415 » by **Just Plain Mark** » Tue May 29, 2012 7:56 pm

The Magic are bringing Moe Harkless in for a workout next week. http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Im-Going-to-Surprise-a-Lot-of-People-3926

KN: So, where have you worked out so far?

Moe Harkless: I've just been down here. I haven't gone anywhere yet. I have a workout next week with the Orlando Magic.

From DraftExpress.com

Looks like the FO changes are already resulting in draft strategy changes - yea for working out players you might draft!

MoMM · Post #416 » by **MoMM** » Tue May 29, 2012 8:16 pm

Just Plain Mark wrote:The Magic are bringing Moe Harkless in for a workout next week. http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Im-Going-to-Surprise-a-Lot-of-People-3926

KN: So, where have you worked out so far?

Moe Harkless: I've just been down here. I haven't gone anywhere yet. I have a workout next week with the Orlando Magic.

From DraftExpress.com

Looks like the FO changes are already resulting in draft strategy changes - yea for working out players you might draft!

Weird thing, huh? Maybe we are the front runners in the NBA in this type of new things, like working out projected players before draft them.

Nemesis21 · Post #417 » by **Nemesis21** » Tue May 29, 2012 8:33 pm

Just Plain Mark wrote:The Magic are bringing Moe Harkless in for a workout next week. http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Im-Going-to-Surprise-a-Lot-of-People-3926

KN: So, where have you worked out so far?

Moe Harkless: I've just been down here. I haven't gone anywhere yet. I have a workout next week with the Orlando Magic.

From DraftExpress.com

Looks like the FO changes are already resulting in draft strategy changes - yea for working out players you might draft!

Awesome, I wouldn't mind Harkless.

D3forThree · Post #418 » by **D3forThree** » Tue May 29, 2012 10:57 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:I think the Magic should package their first round pick to move a player like Duhon, Hedo or JRich or with Ryno (S&T) and maybe JRich for a real Good player (Ellis).

What are the rules with packaging players for picks? I would love to see the Magic package BBD (while his value is high), Duhon, and the 19th pick to Houston for the 14th pick. They could use another big, they don't have a backup pg signed next year, and have the cap space.

Skin · Post #419 » by **Skin** » Tue May 29, 2012 11:00 pm

I like Harkless. I like Terrence Jones more, but he'll probably be gone.

arkknight1988 · Post #420 » by **arkknight1988** » Wed May 30, 2012 1:28 am

Just Plain Mark wrote:The Magic are bringing Moe Harkless in for a workout next week. http://www.draftexpress.com/article/Moe-Harkless-Im-Going-to-Surprise-a-Lot-of-People-3926

KN: So, where have you worked out so far?

Moe Harkless: I've just been down here. I haven't gone anywhere yet. I have a workout next week with the Orlando Magic.

From DraftExpress.com

Looks like the FO changes are already resulting in draft strategy changes - yea for working out players you might draft!

great news. i can't decide if we should go with a SF or PG in this draft. Regardless we can't afford to miss on this pick.

we need another clee impact rookie. i want to slap otis everytime i think about him trading him away. now we are stuck with richardson

Who would you like to see the Magic draft ?