Cole World: Orlando Magic Select Cole Anthony at #15

[Blue_and_Whte]

Guy just played with one of best playmaking backup PGs

Pepe who the **** are you talking about one of the best playmaking back up PGs? dj AUGUSTINE?!?!?

[basketballRob]

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You guys see that ?

After using the imaginary pick he didn’t even look to see if the imaginary roll was open in the lane (he was) and just immediately shot.

Freaking Chucker !

It'll be fun watching him look at Fournier wide open and then shoot it.

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[Bensational]

His effectiveness of the 1st game is besides the point. The fact that he took that many shots unconsciously shows it's in his mindset... it's not because "he didn't trust his teammates"... a point you were trying to stress.

Him using "I had bad teammates" as an excuse it just distasteful. I've NEVER ever heard that being an excuse for other prospects.

Cole is the alpha that you've been clamouring for for years now. He's the guy with the mindset to go get a bucket, and a strong enough skill base for that to be a possibility. It's not an efficient one, but that's the journey.

He comes with a pro's mindset and a hunger to take and make shots. I don't think he'll have trouble trusting Ross or the others he has to pass to, but when that 2nd unit ends up either waiting for Ross to try to get open or otherwise standing around, we now have a guy who can get into the paint and attack the rim to try open things up more.

I don't know if he'll be good, but I think we'll come to like him. I'm quite surprised you're not more gung-ho on his scoring mentality. At least now we've got a player who's probably already got the confidence to take a game winning shot, so we don't have to rely on Fournier trying to take over 4th quarters. That alone will be welcome.

Mindset of pro isn't how to take as many jumpshot but how to play basketball in fashion that involves and uses what you got in best way possible.
Can we not present chucking as heroic?
Throwing hot bricks in the air while in same time only having 4 assists as point guard is not heroic, inspiring or smart. It's being arrogant, ignorant and flat out dumb player.

IF throwing bricks in the air is heroic, Ish Smith might be Superman.

I'm 100% sure that Magic bench will be way worst this year than last year and nobody will feel impact of DJ departure more than Bamba. Guy just played with one of best playmaking backup PGs and will now be stuck with guy who only looks for his shots and can't run offense.

Expecting something like - 5 net rating of that two men duo.

I'm not going to pretend like he hasn't shown some terrible shot selection through college. I don't expect him to be a great passer, but I think you're overselling how bad he is. I'd be curious to know what his potential assists were, considering he was surrounded by so many (other) poor shooters.

I'm not sure why you rate DJ's playmaking so highly. Haven't you noticed how often he overdribbles, runs the clock down and then kicks it to another player for the bailout bad shot? He's actually a pretty terrible passer and playmaker, his biggest strength is that he's conservative and will often dribble through the paint and reset a play rather than take a shot which might get blocked or pass to a player who's defended. But like I said, that conservatism can be a double edged sword if he runs out the clock and throws the ball to someone else and ruins their shooting percentages and not his.

Cole should be able to learn and run all of DJs sets by midseason. I'm actually expecting them to have a similar style, but Cole will be a bit bigger and will force more bad shots whereas DJ would be running under the ring and crossing court. But yes, his efficiency will be poor and so will his lineups, most likely.

[KillMonger]

some fortune tellers we have in here it seems......

[Skin]

I guess the Raptors really believe in their backcourt formula... They drafted 6'1 Malachi Flynn this year.

[Skin]

some fortune tellers we have in here it seems......

Yeah, I'd say they exist on both sides. Some predicting he'll be bad and some predicting he'll be good.

He's a Magic now so I'm gonna choose to support him until it deems unwise to do so. So for now, I'm gonna be cautiously hopeful.

[pepe1991]

Ok let' start from a begining.

DJ Augustin potential asissts and where he ranks as backup:
9,7 potential assists a game.
Only better backups than him are : Spance Dinwiddie, T.J. McConnell and Jeff Teague, Ish Smith.

That's it. 5th highest rated backup in potential assists.

Let' go on.
Secundary assists. Ones who were better, TJ, Ish Smith, Spance Dinwiddie and Dennis Schroder. So once again, 5th best.

He was in hole league ( i used trashold on nba.com at least 50 games played, only listed guards, still wild list ) 34th in passes recived and 35 in passed made. Guy got ball a lot, but damn sure- moved ball a lot. Matter of fact he made more passes than some starting PGs like Bledsoe or Dejonte Murray .

Last thing: being best part of every single Magic best lineup.

It's almost funny how literally no matter how you put ,he had way more positive impact on a team than his replacment, and forced starter Fultz. But he also had more positvie impact than vast majority of Magic roster.

This is one of funniest print screens i ever posted. DJ Augustin was so dominant as "positive" that it seems like guy is Lebron James when you see his lineups.




REALLY IMPORTANT THING TO ADD: THIS ARE MAGIC BEST 3 MEN LINEUPS, NOT DJ AUGUSTIN BEST LINEUPS, HE JUST HAPPENDS TO BE PART OF EVERY.

And for the end. Where did DJ Augustin go? Some trash team that needed 3rd string PG ? Naaah, how about one of strongest nba contenders Bucks? Well that's why great teams keep being great and bad teams keep being- bad.

Conclusion: DJ Augustin indeed is one of best passing backup PG, he is in general one of best backup PGs ( minus defense, ofc) , as guy who knows his job, who can shoot, keep dribble alive, not commit turnovers and in general improve people around him.
Why fans don't like him ? Because he is not young. That's pretty much it.

[Bensational]

DJ averages 6.6apg per36. Under no pretense does that qualify him for any category of 'best' when it comes to passing. Not his assist rate of 26.8%, or his AST/TO ratio. The eye test should tell you everything you need to know about the quality of his passing. He gets the job done with good efficiency.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's good, he was a positive impact on us (which I've been saying for a while), and he will do well in Milwaukee bombing off open looks from Giannis in Bud's system. We will feel the loss of him - but who cares?

[GelbeWand09]

Guy just played with one of best playmaking backup PGs

Yea, not sure if its the same guy i saw dribble for 20 sec and than throwing his body into a defender or passing the ball with 1-2 sec to go all the time

But sure, Cole gonna make us worse next season (like almost every rookie PG). We gonna miss the spacing DJ creates, but i'm still happy he is finally gone & Cliff is forced to put the ball in Fultz hands. We need to know what we have in Fultz this year, to make a decision on his contract.

Like you, I dont know why the biggest talking point here is Cole's shot selection & chucking. Thats really the slightest problem i see.
He's gonna come to a long tenured veteran core & a ol skool coach. If he chucks or doesnt trust his teammates he wont play or wont get the ball. He will learn that pretty fast. We are no lottery team were he can take 20 shots every game & nobody cares.
Same goes for his height (Some need to stop comparing todays barefoot height with the old height in shoes). Half the playoff teams last season, played 2 or even 3 PG lineups in large part of the games. Boston vs. Toronto as a extreme with 6-6 guys playing Center & Tatum beeing the tallest guy on the floor.

[pepe1991]

DJ averages 6.6apg per36. Under no pretense does that qualify him for any category of 'best' when it comes to passing. Not his assist rate of 26.8%, or his AST/TO ratio. The eye test should tell you everything you need to know about the quality of his passing. He gets the job done with good efficiency.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's good, he was a positive impact on us (which I've been saying for a while), and he will do well in Milwaukee bombing off open looks from Giannis in Bud's system. We will feel the loss of him - but who cares?

To log assist teammate has, you know... make shot. So it's not like his ability to set player will translate in numbers when team has amazing total of 2 players that can shoot
That's why potential assists says way more about playmaker than raw assist numbers.

It's impossible to log lot of assists if your center is 34% percent rolling big and your "shooters" are MCW, Iwundu, Aminu and Fultz.

[KillMonger]

some fortune tellers we have in here it seems......

Yeah, I'd say they exist on both sides. Some predicting he'll be bad and some predicting he'll be good.

He's a Magic now so I'm gonna choose to support him until it deems unwise to do so. So for now, I'm gonna be cautiously hopeful.

yeah, i'm going to happily fence sit on this particular issue as i find it much easier to just wait and see instead of saying something stupid to potentially put my foot in my mouth as others could be doing right here right now.

[pepe1991]

I only brought DJ Augustin to say simple thing: Magic are factually gonna be worst than last year as they "run it back" but forgot to bring back one of best players they had.
Regardless what you think of DJ, he was integral part of bench and year before starting lineup that made us playoff team.

He probably didn't want to resign for a team that offers no championship aspirations, but let's not fool ourselfs, we would be better if for rookie year Cole played SG along side DJ,Ross, Aminu/Okeke and Bamba.
Now, by default he is rookie backup PG with army of questionable bench players to play along side him.

You think him being left alone without floor spacing on NC was tough? How dou you think playing along side Bamba, Bacon, MCW , Birch will look like against nba competition?

Cole might be solid, might be terrible. But Magic didn't do much to help him with transition.

[drsd]

I only brought DJ Augustin to say simple thing: Magic are factually gonna be worst than last year as they "run it back" but forgot to bring back one of best players they had.
Regardless what you think of DJ, he was integral part of bench and year before starting lineup that made us playoff team.

You made me accept that, if Fultz goes down early in the season, Orlando is screwed.

Seriously, Gordon might need to be the primary ball handler ! Gordon/Fournier/Ennis/Aminu/Vučević might be our starters if Fultz misses a bunch of games.

(( I can now see why the Magic will carry five PGs. ))

..

[zaymon]

I only brought DJ Augustin to say simple thing: Magic are factually gonna be worst than last year as they "run it back" but forgot to bring back one of best players they had.
Regardless what you think of DJ, he was integral part of bench and year before starting lineup that made us playoff team.

He probably didn't want to resign for a team that offers no championship aspirations, but let's not fool ourselfs, we would be better if for rookie year Cole played SG along side DJ,Ross, Aminu/Okeke and Bamba.
Now, by default he is rookie backup PG with army of questionable bench players to play along side him.

You think him being left alone without floor spacing on NC was tough? How dou you think playing along side Bamba, Bacon, MCW , Birch will look like against nba competition?

Cole might be solid, might be terrible. But Magic didn't do much to help him with transition.

People wanted us to take step back this season. We replaced our best ball handler with a rookie. If that is not a step back i dont know what is. Dj many times said he wanted to resign with us, but we actually prefered to make a move for the future. We fixate on Gordon who is not a game changer at all and Fournier who can slide from on ball to off ball role without any problem.
People are negative becouse they had one move in head and cant process that there are more than one pathways to success.

I think Cole will have a great place in our system. With Ross and MCW we have 2 capable playmakers. Retaining MCW over Dj shows we plan to use him more off the ball, which is smart given his perceived limited first step. If we need more scoring we can always go with Anthony/Fournier/Ross/Okeke/Vucevic.
Thats 5 out offense with multiple playmakers. We are not limited to play Cole only next to MCW.

[basketballRob]

I only brought DJ Augustin to say simple thing: Magic are factually gonna be worst than last year as they "run it back" but forgot to bring back one of best players they had.
Regardless what you think of DJ, he was integral part of bench and year before starting lineup that made us playoff team.

He probably didn't want to resign for a team that offers no championship aspirations, but let's not fool ourselfs, we would be better if for rookie year Cole played SG along side DJ,Ross, Aminu/Okeke and Bamba.
Now, by default he is rookie backup PG with army of questionable bench players to play along side him.

You think him being left alone without floor spacing on NC was tough? How dou you think playing along side Bamba, Bacon, MCW , Birch will look like against nba competition?

Cole might be solid, might be terrible. But Magic didn't do much to help him with transition.

People wanted us to take step back this season. We replaced our best ball handler with a rookie. If that is not a step back i dont know what is. Dj many times said he wanted to resign with us, but we actually prefered to make a move for the future. We fixate on Gordon who is not a game changer at all and Fournier who can slide from on ball to off ball role without any problem.
People are negative becouse they had one move in head and cant process that there are more than one pathways to success.

I think Cole will have a great place in our system. With Ross and MCW we have 2 capable playmakers. Retaining MCW over Dj shows we plan to use him more off the ball, which is smart given his perceived limited first step. If we need more scoring we can always go with Anthony/Fournier/Ross/Okeke/Vucevic.
Thats 5 out offense with multiple playmakers. We are not limited to play Cole only next to MCW.

We couldn't afford DJ. This is why i could see them letting Fournier walk after this season. We've been up against the luxury tax wall the last couple years.

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[Bensational]

DJ averages 6.6apg per36. Under no pretense does that qualify him for any category of 'best' when it comes to passing. Not his assist rate of 26.8%, or his AST/TO ratio. The eye test should tell you everything you need to know about the quality of his passing. He gets the job done with good efficiency.

I'm not saying he's a bad player. He's good, he was a positive impact on us (which I've been saying for a while), and he will do well in Milwaukee bombing off open looks from Giannis in Bud's system. We will feel the loss of him - but who cares?

To log assist teammate has, you know... make shot. So it's not like his ability to set player will translate in numbers when team has amazing total of 2 players that can shoot
That's why potential assists says way more about playmaker than raw assist numbers.

It's impossible to log lot of assists if your center is 34% percent rolling big and your "shooters" are MCW, Iwundu, Aminu and Fultz.

Are you missing the parallel to Cole?

[Howard Mass]

I like DJ Augustin but did anyone want to give him another 2-3 years at $7 million per given this team's situation?

[zaymon]

I like DJ Augustin but did anyone want to give him another 2-3 years at $7 million per given this team's situation?

Even before we drafted Cole it didnt made much sense. MCW is younger, cheaper and more versatile. We were fortunate enough to draft a guard with off ball scoring ability.

[Howard Mass]

I like DJ Augustin but did anyone want to give him another 2-3 years at $7 million per given this team's situation?

Even before we drafted Cole it didnt made much sense. MCW is younger, cheaper and more versatile. We were fortunate enough to draft a guard with off ball scoring ability.

It did not especially given DJ's age and what it was going to cost to keep him. Many of us expected DJ to leave given these factors and I wish him nothing but the best.

[pepe1991]

I like DJ Augustin but did anyone want to give him another 2-3 years at $7 million per given this team's situation?

Even before we drafted Cole it didnt made much sense. MCW is younger, cheaper and more versatile. We were fortunate enough to draft a guard with off ball scoring ability.

MCW isn't point guard, at least not a good one. As point guard he was bounced off NBA in what? 3 years after winning ROY?
He recoverd his playing value embracing role as SG defender and occasional ballhandler.

He spent 67% of PT for us at SG.