Official Spec Thread: I guess now's the time to blow this dumpster fire up and bask in the glow!

[MoMM]

It's not the fact that we could lose the pick this year. It's the fact that we could also miss on it next year and only get two 2nd round picks.

The pick the Wolves sent to the Warriors for D'Angelo Russell is top 3 protected this year and unprotected in 2022. The Warriors are guaranteed to collect on that pick. The Magic may never see a first round pick after trading away an all-star big man under contract for two years. I just don't know why you would leave the most valuable asset you get in a trade up to chance with the possibility to never see it.

Has it been reported that if 1st pick not conveyed by 2022 the second first rounder turns into two seconds??

From Basketball Insiders website

Pick Swaps

2021 — Owed a first-rounder (top-4 protected in 2021, top-3 in 2022, otherwise converts to 2024 and 2025 second-rounders) from the Chicago Bulls (Nikola Vucevic).
2022 — Owed an Indiana Pacers second-rounder (Jordan Nwora) a year after the Pacers send a second-rounder to the Brooklyn Nets (2022, 2023 or 2024).
2023 — Owed a first-rounder (two years after the 2021 obligation to the Orland Magic, top-4 protected in 2023, top-3 in 2024, otherwise converts to 2026 and 2027 second-rounders) from the Chicago Bulls (Nikola Vucevic).
2025 — Owed a first-rounder (two years after the Denver Nuggets’ obligation to the Oklahoma City Thunder, top-5 protected through 2027, otherwise does not convey) from the Nuggets (Aaron Gordon).
2025 — Owed a second-rounder (the lower of the Memphis Grizzlies and Boston Celtics) from the Celtics (Evan Fournier).
2026 — Owed a Milwaukee Bucks 2020 second-rounder (Jordan Nwora).
2027 — Owed a second-rounder from the Boston Celtics (Evan Fournier).

http://www.basketballinsiders.com/orlando-magic-team-salary/

So the FRP from Denver can become nothing? Great!

[MoMM]

Bulls are 0-2 since added Vuc, imagine if they can't make it work and somehow we ended up with 1st and 5th pick?

PS: Let me dream about it

[OhioRock3]

Bulls are 0-2 since added Vuc, imagine if they can't make it work and somehow we ended up with 1st and 5th pick?

PS: Let me dream about it

Don't feel bad, I too am dreaming of this exact scenario

[Last Guardian]

Bulls are 0-2 since added Vuc, imagine if they can't make it work and somehow we ended up with 1st and 5th pick?

PS: Let me dream about it

I believe Chicago fans have already expressed worry about this scenario and how badly they would lose that trade if it happens.

[Gomagic44]

I'll be your draft day dream lover, so you don't have to dream alone!

Bulls are 0-2 since added Vuc, imagine if they can't make it work and somehow we ended up with 1st and 5th pick?

PS: Let me dream about it

Sent from my HD1900 using RealGM mobile app

[Skin]

Mo and WCJ is our new Evan and Dipo dilemma. I'd love to keep both for the next 4 years, but not sure how feasible that would be.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Evan and Oladipo were actually both good.

Not case with this two.

For start, both are injury prone, and when they do play, they both look like backups more than actual starters, let alone above average players or stars.

I think what I find incredible is how Vuc was constantly abused on this forum for years despite being a legitimate Allstar twice, but we have this unwarranted affection for Mo Bamba and now the new fodder from the trade.

I mean we couldn’t wait to get rid of an actual All star because he played a fundamental, less athletic way—but we salivate at the thought of starting someone who has proven to be an absolute deer in headlights with zero motor by all accounts. Unbelievable. People get what they deserve.

I can only hope that this new batch of rookies actually pans out—because of course, guys that look good in college ALWAYS end up being superstar NBA players.

1) People were upset with Vuc because of the direction the team was in with him. We could neither win enough to be taken seriously or lose enough games to improve.

2) Nobody wanted to lose Vuc for nothing, so despite the bashing, nobody was suggesting to dump him... Just the desire to get equal value back in return.

3) The most important attribute that modern teams need from the Center position is defense. No matter how much you want to squint your eyes at the statistics, Vuc did not present any form of intimidation in the paint.

4) Single-handedly, it's hard to replicate what Vuc did for this team, but collectively... things may not be very bleak at all... In fact, when you look at just their first game together, in 35 mins Bamba and Carter put up a line of 19 pts, 15 reb, 3 ast, 3 blks, 9 FTA, 1 3pt and held the Lakers under 100 points. We barely loss with a skeleton of a team. Can't complain about that.

[Skin]

Mo and WCJ is our new Evan and Dipo dilemma. I'd love to keep both for the next 4 years, but not sure how feasible that would be.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

The way I look at it is, WCj has to prove himself because there are guys like him in every draft.

However, there are not many guys who come along every year that have what Bamba has. Of course Bamba needs to raise his game, but he can FINALLY do that now that Vuc is out of the way. IT'S GLORIOUS!

Look at him draw Gasol out and burn him. This can definitely become a go to move for him.

Read on Twitter

[Nyce_1]

Mo and WCJ is our new Evan and Dipo dilemma. I'd love to keep both for the next 4 years, but not sure how feasible that would be.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

The way I look at it is, WCj has to prove himself because there are guys like him in every draft.

However, there are not many guys who come along every year that have what Bamba has. Of course Bamba needs to raise his game, but he can FINALLY do that now that Vuc is out of the way. IT'S GLORIOUS!

Look at him draw Gasol out and burn him. This can definitely become a go to move for him.

Read on Twitter

He needs to start hitting his 3s or else that move won't be effective.

[Skin]

He needs to start hitting his 3s or else that move won't be effective.

Definitely a fair point, but I think more minutes and less DNPs would go a long ways towards establishing consistency.

Bamba's bigger concern for his career is just staying healthy.

[EAS Law]

Yea if we miss out on a superstar i'm def. gonna wish back the glory times of being the worst team in the leaque over a 5 year span with Vuc & than 1 winning season with a 42:40 records & another PO ''run'' as one the 4-5 worst playoff teams ever recordwise.
Yes we really take a gigantic risk, in sacraficing these glory times for a rebuild/reset, because we only tried to win with this core for 5 years, in 3 years we would have been a 2nd round team for sure.

Do me a favor and find where “glory times” were mentioned.

The point, because you seem to have missed it badly, is that objectively, Nikola Vucevic has been named to the all star team twice in his career. Mohammed Bamba cannot play more than 15 mins per game. NBA drafts are unpredictable. Anyone remember the Wiggins, Parker, Randle draft? How successful have any of those guys been?

Your sarcasm is misplaced.

Point is simple here...Vuc is at his peak now...our young core is not ready to compete yet, Vuc ceiling for carrying a team capped at around a .500 team. It was not going to get any better, so why not have hope for something better and play the 21 year old who might never be good but he is young with some potential.

Who cares if Vuc were the best player in the league if he is not making the team into a winning team. At 30+ you have to get value back for him and move on to potential and hope.

Sent from my SM-A716U using RealGM mobile app

No doubt we are facing the reality of the present—I’m not disputing that at all. I think what I question is the necessity to trade Vuc now when, like Mikiaveli stated, we were headed for deep lotto anyway. Why did we trade Vuc? Cap space for guys that won’t sign with us? A pick that at best can be no. 5?

Then I just smh at the gleeful hope that Mo is going to lead us anywhere. I’m all for optimism, as I was once optimistic about the potential of the team myself, but optimism sort of needs a basis stronger than a hypothetical fantasy that all of a sudden, Mo is going to learn how to play at a high level in the NBA.

Last, I’m just kind of confused by how badly a lot of posters here bashed on Vucevic, still only highlight areas of weakness in his game—and now everyone is over the moon to have some draft picks? These were the same people complaining about mediocrity? Well get ready for absolute trash while pinning your hopes on the masterminds that got us Okeke, Cole, Mo, and a bunch of 2nd rounders that no longer play. Hopefully JI actually pans out. At least he has shown objective improvement season to season.

[GelbeWand09]

I think what I find incredible is how Vuc was constantly abused on this forum for years despite being a legitimate Allstar twice, but we have this unwarranted affection for Mo Bamba and now the new fodder from the trade.

I mean we couldn’t wait to get rid of an actual All star because he played a fundamental, less athletic way—but we salivate at the thought of starting someone who has proven to be an absolute deer in headlights with zero motor by all accounts. Unbelievable. People get what they deserve.

I can only hope that this new batch of rookies actually pans out—because of course, guys that look good in college ALWAYS end up being superstar NBA players.

Yea if we miss out on a superstar i'm def. gonna wish back the glory times of being the worst team in the leaque over a 5 year span with Vuc & than 1 winning season with a 42:40 records & another PO ''run'' as one the 4-5 worst playoff teams ever recordwise.
Yes we really take a gigantic risk, in sacraficing these glory times for a rebuild/reset, because we only tried to win with this core for 5 years, in 3 years we would have been a 2nd round team for sure.

Do me a favor and find where “glory times” were mentioned.

The point, because you seem to have missed it badly, is that objectively, Nikola Vucevic has been named to the all star team twice in his career. Mohammed Bamba cannot play more than 15 mins per game. NBA drafts are unpredictable. Anyone remember the Wiggins, Parker, Randle draft? How successful have any of those guys been?

Your sarcasm is misplaced.

Sure my reply was a heavy exaggeration, because it was a answer to your strong exaggeration of the Bamba thing. Were is someone salvating about starting Bamba (except one poster with a really ''special'' opnion)? He's the most criticised player here.

Btw
You praise Vuc, ''we deserve what we get now'' ''unwarrented affection'' with Bamba & the draft Fodder --> You wanna keep Vuc

Next your post about the upcomming draft & rookies

If this doesnt mean you doesnt want a rebuild or a Vuc trade, i dont know.

Your exaggeration/rant about a normal post about who gonna start or kept out of Bamba & Carter, made by Bamba's only hardcore supporter, combined with the not so hidden critism of the Vuc trade & the new route, while again exaggerating the Vuc critism (Who was criticizing Vuc being fundemantal or unathletic? He's a bad/mediocre defender at the C position & was 6 out of 8 years a low eff. high volume scorer, while having no team success. Why shoudnt this be criticized?)

Yea a bit sarcasm isnt undeserved in my opinion.

[Nyce_1]

He needs to start hitting his 3s or else that move won't be effective.

Definitely a fair point, but I think more minutes and less DNPs would go a long ways towards establishing consistency.

Bamba's bigger concern for his career is just staying healthy.

100% agree.

I'm so excited to watch him these last 26 games.

[EAS Law]

Yea if we miss out on a superstar i'm def. gonna wish back the glory times of being the worst team in the leaque over a 5 year span with Vuc & than 1 winning season with a 42:40 records & another PO ''run'' as one the 4-5 worst playoff teams ever recordwise.
Yes we really take a gigantic risk, in sacraficing these glory times for a rebuild/reset, because we only tried to win with this core for 5 years, in 3 years we would have been a 2nd round team for sure.

Do me a favor and find where “glory times” were mentioned.

The point, because you seem to have missed it badly, is that objectively, Nikola Vucevic has been named to the all star team twice in his career. Mohammed Bamba cannot play more than 15 mins per game. NBA drafts are unpredictable. Anyone remember the Wiggins, Parker, Randle draft? How successful have any of those guys been?

Your sarcasm is misplaced.

Sure my reply was a heavy exaggeration, because it was a answer to your strong exaggeration of the Bamba thing. Were is someone salvating about starting Bamba (except one poster with a really ''special'' opnion)? He's the most criticised player here.

Btw
You praise Vuc, ''we deserve what we get now'' ''unwarrented affection'' with Bamba & the draft Fodder --> You wanna keep Vuc

Next your post about the upcomming draft & rookies

If this doesnt mean you doesnt want a rebuild or a Vuc trade, i dont know.

Your exaggeration/rant about a normal post about who gonna start or kept out of Bamba & Carter, made by Bamba's only hardcore supporter, combined with the not so hidden critism of the Vuc trade & the new route, while again exaggerating the Vuc critism (Who was criticizing Vuc being fundemantal or unathletic? He's a bad/mediocre defender at the C position & was 6 out of 8 years a low eff. high volume scorer, while having no team success. Why shoudnt this be criticized?)

Yea a bit sarcasm isnt undeserved in my opinion.

So I’ll address this to you as well so that you see it. From a standpoint of intelligent utilization of assets—why would we trade our highest-value player for the return we got when we were headed toward a deep lotto pick with or without him? Even if we have Vucevic today, but we traded Gordon and Fournier, how many more games do we win than with the roster we have? Probably not many.

So why not hang onto the asset that has objective foundation to establish the value? Maybe trade Vuc when the return isn’t a pick protected 1-4. Also, I find it great that you illustrate the point I’m making by immediately bashing Vucevic again while simultaneously ignoring all of the positives that lead to Allstar selection 2x.

The hope and optimism here hinges entirely on the materialization of the fairy tales that people have made up in their heads about our younger players. The “affection” that apparently really triggered a few people here, that I’m referring to relates to the years of insistence that Steve Clifford is what holds Mo Bamba back and he MUST play... it’s ridiculous honestly.

Yes, the people here that used to chant about mediocrity and treadmilling finally have their wish granted of a full tear down rebuild with probably the least imaginative, accurate, active, effective FO we’ve had in many years calling the draft picks.

[RookieStar]

It's not the fact that we could lose the pick this year. It's the fact that we could also miss on it next year and only get two 2nd round picks.

The pick the Wolves sent to the Warriors for D'Angelo Russell is top 3 protected this year and unprotected in 2022. The Warriors are guaranteed to collect on that pick. The Magic may never see a first round pick after trading away an all-star big man under contract for two years. I just don't know why you would leave the most valuable asset you get in a trade up to chance with the possibility to never see it.

I'm not really worried about it at all.

It would take cataclysmic bad luck for the Bulls to hit the lottery two years in a row given the fact they're clearly in win-now mode.

Same.. give it 5 more games then you will see them click. They will challenge for the play-in spot. However, worst case scenario, they get a top pick then next season they will be a PO team. No way will they tank next season with the pieces they have.

[zaymon]

Do me a favor and find where “glory times” were mentioned.

The point, because you seem to have missed it badly, is that objectively, Nikola Vucevic has been named to the all star team twice in his career. Mohammed Bamba cannot play more than 15 mins per game. NBA drafts are unpredictable. Anyone remember the Wiggins, Parker, Randle draft? How successful have any of those guys been?

Your sarcasm is misplaced.

Sure my reply was a heavy exaggeration, because it was a answer to your strong exaggeration of the Bamba thing. Were is someone salvating about starting Bamba (except one poster with a really ''special'' opnion)? He's the most criticised player here.

Btw
You praise Vuc, ''we deserve what we get now'' ''unwarrented affection'' with Bamba & the draft Fodder --> You wanna keep Vuc

Next your post about the upcomming draft & rookies

If this doesnt mean you doesnt want a rebuild or a Vuc trade, i dont know.

Your exaggeration/rant about a normal post about who gonna start or kept out of Bamba & Carter, made by Bamba's only hardcore supporter, combined with the not so hidden critism of the Vuc trade & the new route, while again exaggerating the Vuc critism (Who was criticizing Vuc being fundemantal or unathletic? He's a bad/mediocre defender at the C position & was 6 out of 8 years a low eff. high volume scorer, while having no team success. Why shoudnt this be criticized?)

Yea a bit sarcasm isnt undeserved in my opinion.

So I’ll address this to you as well so that you see it. From a standpoint of intelligent utilization of assets—why would we trade our highest-value player for the return we got when we were headed toward a deep lotto pick with or without him? Even if we have Vucevic today, but we traded Gordon and Fournier, how many more games do we win than with the roster we have? Probably not many.

So why not hang onto the asset that has objective foundation to establish the value? Maybe trade Vuc when the return isn’t a pick protected 1-4. Also, I find it great that you illustrate the point I’m making by immediately bashing Vucevic again while simultaneously ignoring all of the positives that lead to Allstar selection 2x.

The hope and optimism here hinges entirely on the materialization of the fairy tales that people have made up in their heads about our younger players. The “affection” that apparently really triggered a few people here, that I’m referring to relates to the years of insistence that Steve Clifford is what holds Mo Bamba back and he MUST play... it’s ridiculous honestly.

Yes, the people here that used to chant about mediocrity and treadmilling finally have their wish granted of a full tear down rebuild with probably the least imaginative, accurate, active, effective FO we’ve had in many years calling the draft picks.

In the end i think it was about Weltmans team building philosophy. I loved Vooch but he needed two defensive forwards to cover for him. We had that but becouse of the injuries are window shrinked to one year and the ceiling was not championship. Look at Weltmans draft history he clearly prioritizes defense at froncourt.
If he never felt that its his style of team why not trade Vucevic at his highest value ? I wanted to trade only Gordon, but current path is propably safer and with higher ceiling at the same time. Look at our team, if Harris and Porter are healthy and still on the team next year ? Thats not a bad team.

[basketballRob]

All we did is get rid of our high usage guys and our two worst defenders. We could easily use the assets we have now to be a better team than before, next season.

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

[Skin]

Do me a favor and find where “glory times” were mentioned.

The point, because you seem to have missed it badly, is that objectively, Nikola Vucevic has been named to the all star team twice in his career. Mohammed Bamba cannot play more than 15 mins per game. NBA drafts are unpredictable. Anyone remember the Wiggins, Parker, Randle draft? How successful have any of those guys been?

Your sarcasm is misplaced.

Sure my reply was a heavy exaggeration, because it was a answer to your strong exaggeration of the Bamba thing. Were is someone salvating about starting Bamba (except one poster with a really ''special'' opnion)? He's the most criticised player here.

Btw
You praise Vuc, ''we deserve what we get now'' ''unwarrented affection'' with Bamba & the draft Fodder --> You wanna keep Vuc

Next your post about the upcomming draft & rookies

If this doesnt mean you doesnt want a rebuild or a Vuc trade, i dont know.

Your exaggeration/rant about a normal post about who gonna start or kept out of Bamba & Carter, made by Bamba's only hardcore supporter, combined with the not so hidden critism of the Vuc trade & the new route, while again exaggerating the Vuc critism (Who was criticizing Vuc being fundemantal or unathletic? He's a bad/mediocre defender at the C position & was 6 out of 8 years a low eff. high volume scorer, while having no team success. Why shoudnt this be criticized?)

Yea a bit sarcasm isnt undeserved in my opinion.

So I’ll address this to you as well so that you see it. From a standpoint of intelligent utilization of assets—why would we trade our highest-value player for the return we got when we were headed toward a deep lotto pick with or without him? Even if we have Vucevic today, but we traded Gordon and Fournier, how many more games do we win than with the roster we have? Probably not many.

So why not hang onto the asset that has objective foundation to establish the value? Maybe trade Vuc when the return isn’t a pick protected 1-4. Also, I find it great that you illustrate the point I’m making by immediately bashing Vucevic again while simultaneously ignoring all of the positives that lead to Allstar selection 2x.

The hope and optimism here hinges entirely on the materialization of the fairy tales that people have made up in their heads about our younger players. The “affection” that apparently really triggered a few people here, that I’m referring to relates to the years of insistence that Steve Clifford is what holds Mo Bamba back and he MUST play... it’s ridiculous honestly.

Yes, the people here that used to chant about mediocrity and treadmilling finally have their wish granted of a full tear down rebuild with probably the least imaginative, accurate, active, effective FO we’ve had in many years calling the draft picks.

The return that we got for Vuc was a good return though, so I'm not sure you're looking at the trade objectively. Some sites have us winning the trade, others have Chicago winning. So it's not lopsided. Obviously the true grade won't be known until we see further results.

Waiting any longer for sure would've only made the trade value worse. You can see that case with Gordon and Fournier. We failed to trade them at their highest value.

It's great that Vuc was an All-Star, but not all All-Stars are equal. He did not carry the magnetism to attract other stars to play in ORL. He was not selected near the end of the All-Star draft by accident. He simply wasn't as desirable to play with.

We needed to rebuild and clear the pathway for new stars, new scorers, new leadership, new team image. Not hang onto an old wily vet who is just blocking the way.

We agree that we would probably continue to lose, but this is a Top 5 pick draft and it falls off the ledge considerably. One extra meaningless win can mean all the difference. Vuc could've hurt those chances as well... unless you totally don't think he is much of a factor towards winning.

[The Effect]

Bulls are 0-2 since added Vuc, imagine if they can't make it work and somehow we ended up with 1st and 5th pick?

PS: Let me dream about it

sorry but that kinda luck only happens if you help Lebron or got screwed by lebron
Think Cavs 2011 draft after lebron left (kyrie and tristan thompson 4th), this one took alot of work, the clippers won the draft but owed the pick to the cavs and then the cavs got 4th
Cavs winning the lotto in 2013 and 2014 (anthony bennett and Wiggins), wiggins draft they had a 1% chance of getting first, then lebron traded wiggins to get love from Minn....Who ended up getting the first pick the next year

Then 2 years ago the lakers somehow get the 4th pick which lebron used to trade for anthony davis and the pelicans also happened to get the 1st pick who also only had a 6% chance of getting one

We didnt help lebron, doubt the bulls have that kinda pull for fan fair

[RookieStar]

So.. you saying it's all rigged? ( kinda half-joking)

Seriously though, guys better start looking at those 13-20 ranged players. As much as it's good to fantasize about getting two Top-10 lotto picks, it's better to brace yourself with reality lol.

Right now Im reviewing Duarte, Mitchell, Butler and the like. Im just scared our FO is gonna draft a top Euro-stash players becasue they feel we have too much youth.

[MoMM]

Right now Im reviewing Duarte, Mitchell, Butler and the like. Im just scared our FO is gonna draft a top Euro-stash players becasue they feel we have too much youth.

I am OK with getting Donavan or Jimmy