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2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm

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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#421 » by ogmagicfan » Tue Feb 4, 2025 6:33 am

Bensational wrote:
Knightro wrote:
Bensational wrote:
Off-season assignment #1 for them I guess is to learn PnR.

I’m trying to imagine how the offense runs even if we add a PG. Do those two still just camp in the corners and elbows whilst the PG runs an opening PnR with a big and kicks it out to one of them if nothing is there?


It’s easy to scream “this team needs a point guard!” into the void (not saying you’re doing this now).

But there’s fundamental ways this offense, and in particular how Paolo and Franz have each played for the last three years straight, will have to change in order for that to be a thing.

Adding a point guard isn’t some magical pixie dust that is going to change things immediately for the better.

There’s an overhaul process that would have to happen too that I suspect would look quite ugly for a while depending on who the point guard is.


Lol, how have we swapped sides? That was my main argument about the Magic not chasing a PG previously and now I’m pining for FVV.

But yeah, team would have to learn a whole new way of playing. Hard to argue that the team doesn’t need it.


It will be a rough transition process adding a PG, but its necessary to take us to the next level

It will be worth seeing our team play with pace, & having more capable ball handlers and passers on the court. Paolo & Franz will have to adjust their games accordingly. If theyre max players, they will
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#422 » by cedric76 » Tue Feb 4, 2025 6:35 am

shadrock wrote:Anyone else noticing the strong, significant inverse correlation between Cole Anthony involvement and winning?


Indeed
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#423 » by ogmagicfan » Tue Feb 4, 2025 6:37 am

SOUL wrote:Sometimes injuries derail seasons. Sucks when it's our team because it feels like it always happens to us. We're still a flawed team without those injuries, but having all of our top three options go out for months, trying to re-work it all together, having a bunch of other players get hurt, sick, etc all randomly, and then hitting a rough patch teams usually have even without injuries.. makes it look terrible.

Maybe it's good because without those, Weltman sits on his hands. Maybe he still does it, but there's no way he can see this and punt on acquiring help before big contracts start kicking in.


I see this all as a blessing in disguise, just like when we got the injury bug and then Aaron Gordon & Fournier forced their way out and we traded Vucevic also. If it wasnt for that injury riddled season, we would all be suffering right now

Thats also an indictment on Weltham though, if the only thing that can incentivize him to make moves that should have already been made is our players getting injured, is he really fit to be our GM?
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#424 » by DiplomaticMagic » Tue Feb 4, 2025 7:27 am

Why the **** wasnt Goga in the game at the end??? Wendell played final 18 minutes and didnt do ****!!! Yet Goga had 14 rebs in 20 minutes.

Mosley is a jokester!!!
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#425 » by SOUL » Tue Feb 4, 2025 7:39 am

DiplomaticMagic wrote:Why the **** wasnt Goga in the game at the end??? Wendell played final 18 minutes and didnt do ****!!! Yet Goga had 14 rebs in 20 minutes.

Mosley is a jokester!!!


WCJ played great defense this game tbh. One of the few reasons we were in it.

He was +14 and Goga -19
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#426 » by pepe1991 » Tue Feb 4, 2025 8:01 am

SOUL wrote:
DiplomaticMagic wrote:Why the **** wasnt Goga in the game at the end??? Wendell played final 18 minutes and didnt do ****!!! Yet Goga had 14 rebs in 20 minutes.

Mosley is a jokester!!!


WCJ played great defense this game tbh. One of the few reasons we were in it.

He was +14 and Goga -19


Goga probably has min restricted too.
Carter was fine tonight, was on triple double trajectory.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#427 » by drsd » Tue Feb 4, 2025 8:06 am

Hopefully WePark saw this as a Moses Moody interview game. Always thought his game compliments Orlando's offense.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#428 » by SOUL » Tue Feb 4, 2025 8:11 am

pepe1991 wrote:Goga probably has min restricted too.
Carter was fine tonight, was on triple double trajectory.


Sad how many open shots he is just scared to shoot now though. Not one big is good from distance ;/
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#429 » by msmoore66 » Tue Feb 4, 2025 8:11 am

msmoore66 wrote:We win by 20


Apologies, got this wrong.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#430 » by drsd » Tue Feb 4, 2025 8:12 am

Box score thoughts:

An interesting one. Yes Orlando lost the FG% battle (barely) and lost the game, but the stats are promising.
(and all road games are tough after all).

The Magic missed 5 FTs in a a game lost by 5.

GSW and Orlando had essentially the same FG% line, and held the Warriors to 30.8% with their three ball.
This game became a battle of two stats: the Warriors FTA line and the Magic rebounding line.

These coupled into the Warriors having a low FGA line and the Magic having a huge one. Indeed Orlando took 21 more FGAs than GSW :o

A final thought was the box-score of the Magic's starting PG. Zero FGAs, Zero FT attempts (and thus ZERO points). 1 rebound, 1 assist and 2 PFs. Dude: you're a starter. Be involved!
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#431 » by drsd » Tue Feb 4, 2025 8:17 am

SOUL wrote:Pick and rolls work between bigs and smalls because the big can get lobs from being covered by a smaller person while the small has the speed to get into the lane and kick it out or shoot or lob it.

A pick and roll between Franz and Paolo are the same sized dudes who get switched on to same sized defenders, where they drive slower to the rim while 2-3 defenders collapse and reach in trying to strip the ball away.

It can work if there already is a bad defensive matchup on them, otherwise...




Yes Pick-and-roll sets are most often associated with guard–big man duos, but there have definitely been NBA teams that used the play between two forwards on a regular basis. Below are a few notable examples where the forward-forward PnR (or variations of it, like pick-and-pop) featured prominently in a team’s offense:

1. LeBron James and Chris Bosh (Miami Heat)
Era: 2010–2014
Why It Worked: LeBron James, although often functioning as a point-forward, was nominally the small forward. Chris Bosh played more as a power forward (and sometimes center). Their pick-and-rolls (or pick-and-pop) frequently forced mismatches, with James able to penetrate and Bosh popping out to midrange where he was deadly.

2. LeBron James and Kevin Love (Cleveland Cavaliers)
Era: 2014–2018
Why It Worked: Similar dynamic to James–Bosh. With Love’s shooting range and LeBron’s playmaking, the “4–3” or “3–4” pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop helped space the floor and opened driving lanes. Though Love later spent more time at center, the forward-forward combination was still a big part of Cleveland’s offensive sets.

3. Draymond Green and Kevin Durant (Golden State Warriors)
Era: 2016–2019
Why It Worked: Kevin Durant (SF/PF) was an elite ball handler and scorer, while Draymond Green (PF) served as a primary screener/short-roll passer in Golden State’s offense. When Green set the screen for Durant, defenses had to pick their poison: either switch a smaller defender onto Durant or allow Green to facilitate on the roll with a 4-on-3 advantage.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#432 » by SloNick Russia » Tue Feb 4, 2025 8:44 am

If Paolo was not a star on this team he would not be getting any PT now based on his production. He is at Cole's finest crazy bad level now. 20% shooting, 0-16 on threes and 3-10 on FTs on a west trip. And most of the shots he takes are bad shots, he is not doing much on offense without the ball, plays bad defense, gives up reb. Just brutal all around performance.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#433 » by zaymon » Tue Feb 4, 2025 9:14 am

Paolo started to defer to Franz. On one hand its a positive sign but on the other its clearly visible who is better and we created an illusion its Paolo.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#434 » by CarraT » Tue Feb 4, 2025 10:00 am

cedric76 wrote:
shadrock wrote:Anyone else noticing the strong, significant inverse correlation between Cole Anthony involvement and winning?


Indeed


Nope, stats don´t back this up. No real correlation between our winning % and Cole a) playing above 20min or b) having 10+ FGA.

There is a small correlation between winning % and him a) shooting 2+ 3P b) shooting FG% 50+ or c) having 15+ points, but sample size is a bit small. But this indicates, that when we have an efficiant high volume long range shooter from guard, we win more, despite him being negative on defense. But this was clear for a lot of people in this forum for a long time. Just our lazy af FO doesn´t bother about winning.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#435 » by cedric76 » Tue Feb 4, 2025 10:05 am

drsd wrote:Hopefully WePark saw this as a Moses Moody interview game. Always thought his game compliments Orlando's offense.


I ve loved this guy since 2021 draft

2 way player that can shoot the ball with a long wingspan
Suggs, AB, Tyus, Jase
Bane, AB, TDS , Jett
Franz, TDS, Panda
P5, JI, Panda, Moe
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#436 » by msmoore66 » Tue Feb 4, 2025 10:06 am

zaymon wrote:Paolo started to defer to Franz. On one hand its a positive sign but on the other its clearly visible who is better and we created an illusion its Paolo.


Sure, this is true right now. But surely we aren't going to jump to conclusions here? (For what it is worth, I am just as high on Franz as I am Paolo)
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#437 » by zaymon » Tue Feb 4, 2025 10:26 am

msmoore66 wrote:
zaymon wrote:Paolo started to defer to Franz. On one hand its a positive sign but on the other its clearly visible who is better and we created an illusion its Paolo.


Sure, this is true right now. But surely we aren't going to jump to conclusions here? (For what it is worth, I am just as high on Franz as I am Paolo)


Well Franz was better since the beginning and the gap is getting wider and wider. Being better in 3-4 games in one playoff series wont change my mind.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#438 » by SOUL » Tue Feb 4, 2025 11:19 am

zaymon wrote:
msmoore66 wrote:
zaymon wrote:Paolo started to defer to Franz. On one hand its a positive sign but on the other its clearly visible who is better and we created an illusion its Paolo.


Sure, this is true right now. But surely we aren't going to jump to conclusions here? (For what it is worth, I am just as high on Franz as I am Paolo)


Well Franz was better since the beginning and the gap is getting wider and wider. Being better in 3-4 games in one playoff series wont change my mind.


What does creating Franz vs Paolo narrative even do? Just needless and seems like something ESPN would love. It's obvious that Franz is the better player right now, but if we want to get anywhere, we need both to be great. If they can't co-exist, we should want them both to be good still because at least we'll get some value via a trade.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#439 » by mattyBoi » Tue Feb 4, 2025 11:24 am

Lets check in on the KCP, Isaac, WCJ trio. Oh yep, still terrible.
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Re: 2024-2025 Regular Season Game 51: Orlando Magic (24-26) at Golden State Warriors (24-24) - 10pm 

Post#440 » by sChOlaRlY_Magi » Tue Feb 4, 2025 11:33 am

This forum.... Paolo broke some of Shaq's and Lebron's stats in his first year... One season of poor play around a season killing injury and you all have the pitchforks out... Jeez

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