ImageImageImageImage

2018 Summer League General Discussion

Moderators: UCF, Knightro, UCFJayBird, Def Swami, Howard Mass, ChosenSavior

Darth Magic
Veteran
Posts: 2,787
And1: 808
Joined: Feb 24, 2010

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#441 » by Darth Magic » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:56 pm

pinoynurse wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:So I was listening to Philip Rossman-Reichs podcast today and he suggested that it's more likely than not that Bamba and Isaac won't play again. I really hope that's not the case. Clifford said that they would play as much as they could, so hopefully, that means past the preliminary games as well.


just curious how do you feel about his podcast. I think hes a great media person and all, writes great pieces, very intelligent and articulate. But his podcasts, I find him repeating the same thing over and over again so much. Again he does do great work tho and i do enjoy his podcasts (sometimes)


This has been bothering me for a while. I just really don't like his podcast style. It really lacks something and I'm not quite sure what it is. I get the repetitiveness, the long pauses and just seemingly editorial nature of his content but it just does not feel like quality stuff and I don't know why. I still listen but I just wished it was better.
"Real Gs move in silence; like lasagna" Jeff Weltman
User avatar
rcklsscognition
RealGM
Posts: 22,366
And1: 7,429
Joined: Mar 23, 2009
Contact:
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#442 » by rcklsscognition » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:34 pm

Skin wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:I'm almost over it, but watching Svi on the Lakers, picked 47th, is hard. Guy has a Klay Thompson stroke and elite shooting numbers on high volume in college. I said before the draft, 2nd round we need to hit the excel spreadsheet up, sort by 3PM and draft anyone at the top of the list. For a GM to come out and say that shooting is such a commodity, hard to find, and have them pass on blatently in your face good shooters, is disheartening. It's like trying to squeeze water out of a rock with them and offense.

It's easy to talk smack now, but of course, it'll have to be seen 2 seasons from now where any of these guys are. Most will be overseas or in the Gleague.

Frazier and Iwundu are not the same. Frazier is way better at defense. He's more explosive too.

The thing about WeHam's strategy is that folks will not like their players out of the gates. They will be disheartened if they get their hopes up early. It took a while for Giannis to develop. They like guys like Khris Middleton. Look at his college stats... it looks similar to Frazier.

Middleton - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/khris-middleton-1.html
Frazier - https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/players/khris-middleton-1.html

Being a good defender has a lot to do with God given talents (Size/Athleticism). Countless hours in the gym can only do so much in regards to those traits. Kyle Korver will never be a good defender. But countless hours in the gym can improve your shooting. WeHam has targeted players with God given defensive talent, but have also shown capabilities that they could become good shooters. I think that's a very fair approach for 2nd round talents.

It's hard having a good defender that can't or doesn't want to shoot (Andre Roberson)... but even if that's their limit... a guy like Roberson is still valuable to have. It's good to have good shooters too, but if they don't have a defensive base, then you are asking for real trouble down the line. Especially because shooting can go hot or cold even for the best of them. Defense is much more reliable. Looking at an Excel spreadsheet and drafting based on 3PM is how the Kings ended up drafting Nik Stauskas.

WeHam has targeted not just defensive players, but those that have shown some fairly competent level that they could eventually become a shooter. Frazier improved dramatically last season. Jackson showed the skill early on. Both have the base of being good defenders. You gotta appreciate that and just give them time. They are 2nd rounders for a reason.


Fair enough, I don't believe that strategy you outlined will work, because historical data shows that it is extremely rare for someone to learn how to shoot after never being able to. Not saying it isn't possible, but just extremely rare. I believe we should draft skilled scorers in the 2nd round and teach them to play defense. Also, the Kings drafted Stauskas with the 8th pick of the 1st round. The 2nd round is the time to pull out the spreadsheet. Threezus, an all-star, is 37 and has played good enough defense for at least 10-12 years of his 17 seasons.
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 28,450
And1: 29,597
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Jersey
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#443 » by Knightro » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:41 pm

fendilim wrote:whats the status of jackson anyway? Wasnt he like a good shooter than suffered a shoulder injury, now he lost his great shooting and is nowhere to be found? Thinking about it, kinda Sounds like fultz. Lol


Unlike Fultz, who basically just had the yips, Jackson is actually still recovering from shoulder surgery for a torn labrum.
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 37,198
And1: 14,931
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#444 » by basketballRob » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:56 pm

I hope we make the Finals!
basketballRob
RealGM
Posts: 37,198
And1: 14,931
Joined: May 05, 2014
     

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#445 » by basketballRob » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:00 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:I'm almost over it, but watching Svi on the Lakers, picked 47th, is hard. Guy has a Klay Thompson stroke and elite shooting numbers on high volume in college. I said before the draft, 2nd round we need to hit the excel spreadsheet up, sort by 3PM and draft anyone at the top of the list. For a GM to come out and say that shooting is such a commodity, hard to find, and have them pass on blatently in your face good shooters, is disheartening. It's like trying to squeeze water out of a rock with them and offense.

It's easy to talk smack now, but of course, it'll have to be seen 2 seasons from now where any of these guys are. Most will be overseas or in the Gleague.


It's extremely frustrating.. Frazier is such a head scratching pick still and will continue to be.


Not really, he's a two guard with a 7'2" wingspan and a 40 inch vertical. This FO has faith they can develop these type players.
User avatar
MartinsIzAfraud
Head Coach
Posts: 6,437
And1: 4,821
Joined: Mar 07, 2017
Location: Work
   

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#446 » by MartinsIzAfraud » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:19 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
rcklsscognition wrote:I'm almost over it, but watching Svi on the Lakers, picked 47th, is hard. Guy has a Klay Thompson stroke and elite shooting numbers on high volume in college. I said before the draft, 2nd round we need to hit the excel spreadsheet up, sort by 3PM and draft anyone at the top of the list. For a GM to come out and say that shooting is such a commodity, hard to find, and have them pass on blatently in your face good shooters, is disheartening. It's like trying to squeeze water out of a rock with them and offense.

It's easy to talk smack now, but of course, it'll have to be seen 2 seasons from now where any of these guys are. Most will be overseas or in the Gleague.


It's extremely frustrating.. Frazier is such a head scratching pick still and will continue to be.


No he is not. The Magic needed a SF/PF who can defend on the perimeter and has length. Nothing about him is head scratching at all.

The only question will be if he can become an NBA player or not. And we can ask that about every 2nd round pick in this draft.


Bolded Point- Which makes it even harder to understand why we took a guy who will not see many minutes in year 1 and maybe will see 10-12 minutes in year 2 depending on what we do in FA 19 or via trades. If the only question for a 2nd round guy is if he can become and NBA player wouldn't you take a risk on a guy who can shoot especially when:

A- > ranked 25th in offensive rating last season
B -> waived the only other PG on the roster Mack
C-> your intentions were to match a MAX Deal for AG
D-> already have AG, Fournier, Isaac, Simmons, TRoss, Iwundu for wing spots and Birch could slide in at 4 if needed.

Meanwhile we have a HUGE hole in the scoring,creating and offensive side of the game. Not saying a 2nd round Guard would've solved any of those things but they would've had an clearer route to try and fill a need instead of a guy who will likely spend more time in Lakeland than Orlando

35th Pick: Orlando Magic — Melvin Frazier, Tulane
Grade: C
Melvin Frazier is a fine pick, but the Magic really need a point guard on this roster. You won’t find a starting point guard at 35, but the Magic just missed out on a run of solid options. Should have moved up or grabbed De’Anthony Melton.


Overall, I am pro-Frazier although his lack of a consistent jump shot and handle will need to be improved. For a Magic team that ranked 25th in offensive rating last season, this pick didn’t help, nor did it hurt.


Frazier's a pure 3-and-D player, but he's not exactly an upside pick or a playmaker. How will he play on a roster where he's going to have to find his own shots at an NBA level? It'll all be about how the Magic develop their offense. Grade: C+


vs

Melton was a victim of the FBI investigation into college basketball, but you simply won't find a player who can do more at the point guard position in this draft. He had lottery talent. The concern before the suspension was his jumper, but at this point, this is a tremendous pick. Grade: A


Svi is a great shooter. Can he reach the NBA level in other areas? Grade: B-


SG Shake Milton, SMU junior
His huge wingspan, positional versatility and strong shooting made it seem like he could have been a late first-rounder. Grade: A
A scoring guard.. never heard of one. :roll:
PennytoShaq
Magic Forum Mock Draft Co-Champ
Posts: 7,381
And1: 5,218
Joined: Jan 24, 2016
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#447 » by PennytoShaq » Wed Jul 11, 2018 8:30 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
It's extremely frustrating.. Frazier is such a head scratching pick still and will continue to be.


No he is not. The Magic needed a SF/PF who can defend on the perimeter and has length. Nothing about him is head scratching at all.

The only question will be if he can become an NBA player or not. And we can ask that about every 2nd round pick in this draft.


Bolded Point- Which makes it even harder to understand why we took a guy who will not see many minutes in year 1 and maybe will see 10-12 minutes in year 2 depending on what we do in FA 19 or via trades. If the only question for a 2nd round guy is if he can become and NBA player wouldn't you take a risk on a guy who can shoot especially when:

A- > ranked 25th in offensive rating last season
B -> waived the only other PG on the roster Mack
C-> your intentions were to match a MAX Deal for AG
D-> already have AG, Fournier, Isaac, Simmons, TRoss, Iwundu for wing spots and Birch could slide in at 4 if needed.

Meanwhile we have a HUGE hole in the scoring,creating and offensive side of the game. Not saying a 2nd round Guard would've solved any of those things but they would've had an clearer route to try and fill a need instead of a guy who will likely spend more time in Lakeland than Orlando

35th Pick: Orlando Magic — Melvin Frazier, Tulane
Grade: C
Melvin Frazier is a fine pick, but the Magic really need a point guard on this roster. You won’t find a starting point guard at 35, but the Magic just missed out on a run of solid options. Should have moved up or grabbed De’Anthony Melton.


Overall, I am pro-Frazier although his lack of a consistent jump shot and handle will need to be improved. For a Magic team that ranked 25th in offensive rating last season, this pick didn’t help, nor did it hurt.


Frazier's a pure 3-and-D player, but he's not exactly an upside pick or a playmaker. How will he play on a roster where he's going to have to find his own shots at an NBA level? It'll all be about how the Magic develop their offense. Grade: C+


vs

Melton was a victim of the FBI investigation into college basketball, but you simply won't find a player who can do more at the point guard position in this draft. He had lottery talent. The concern before the suspension was his jumper, but at this point, this is a tremendous pick. Grade: A


Svi is a great shooter. Can he reach the NBA level in other areas? Grade: B-


SG Shake Milton, SMU junior
His huge wingspan, positional versatility and strong shooting made it seem like he could have been a late first-rounder. Grade: A



A 2nd round draft grade is meaningless and proves nothing.

Briscoe is easily as good as those guys. What does it matter how the magic acquire their pgs? They just got another 2 way pg today. I am trying to understand why you think we have a huge hole at getting a starting, scoring pg and how that would be filled in round 2.

The magic also have a huge hole at reserve wing, specifially at the 4, and it looks like frazier or a healthy jackson will have a shot at getting those minutes.
User avatar
pinoynurse
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,263
And1: 364
Joined: Oct 21, 2008
Location: san fernando, philippines
Contact:
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#448 » by pinoynurse » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:38 pm

Audi wrote:
pinoynurse wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:That's a fair point actually. I think a co-host could help that podcast out quite a lot. His podcast is the only Magic podcast that I watch from time to time, I wasn't aware that there were any others.



what other podcasts do you guys listen too? The main thing with Phillips pod is he releases it with more frequency, so especially during the offseason with so little magic news, i end up listening to it


Orlando Magic Podcast on the Almighty Baller Network
https://www.almightyballer.com/the-orlando-magic-podcast

And

Do You Believe In Magic? Podcast
https://player.fm/series/do-you-believe-in-magic

You can DL both on the itunes podcast app thing when you’ve got WiFI, then you won’t have to stream and use up data (learned the hard way haha)


do you believe in magic podcast im a big fan of. Love their show but sometimes i feel like zack oliver is reaaaaaaallllllyyyy tired or is not excited to be on the podcast haha. Just nitpicking really, each podcast he gives a really long sigh and always sounds like he just woke up. But good podcast overall haha
From strength, learn gentleness. Through gentleness, strength will prevail.
User avatar
pinoynurse
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,263
And1: 364
Joined: Oct 21, 2008
Location: san fernando, philippines
Contact:
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#449 » by pinoynurse » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:41 pm

Darth Magic wrote:
pinoynurse wrote:
PrimeShaq wrote:So I was listening to Philip Rossman-Reichs podcast today and he suggested that it's more likely than not that Bamba and Isaac won't play again. I really hope that's not the case. Clifford said that they would play as much as they could, so hopefully, that means past the preliminary games as well.


just curious how do you feel about his podcast. I think hes a great media person and all, writes great pieces, very intelligent and articulate. But his podcasts, I find him repeating the same thing over and over again so much. Again he does do great work tho and i do enjoy his podcasts (sometimes)


This has been bothering me for a while. I just really don't like his podcast style. It really lacks something and I'm not quite sure what it is. I get the repetitiveness, the long pauses and just seemingly editorial nature of his content but it just does not feel like quality stuff and I don't know why. I still listen but I just wished it was better.


at first i thought it was just me but overtime a 30-40min podcast where he pretty much repeats himself got annoying

I think a cohost would do him wonders, but i noticed too even with a cohost he kinda doesnt let them speak much without realizing it, because he cuts them off and rambles on too much.
From strength, learn gentleness. Through gentleness, strength will prevail.
sportsrock37
Starter
Posts: 2,401
And1: 233
Joined: Jul 09, 2002
         

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#450 » by sportsrock37 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 9:43 pm

Anyone know what seed we ended up getting and if we won who we'd play?
Florida Gator Alum
Orlando Magic
Atlanta Braves
Washington Redskins
Washington Capitals

@badamsufl
magicman112
Head Coach
Posts: 7,291
And1: 1,889
Joined: Oct 31, 2001
     

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#451 » by magicman112 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:39 pm

sportsrock37 wrote:Anyone know what seed we ended up getting and if we won who we'd play?


Not sure of the seed we play Utah that I know.
User avatar
SOUL
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 58,912
And1: 40,885
Joined: Dec 11, 2006
Location: Orl★ndo
     

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#452 » by SOUL » Wed Jul 11, 2018 10:59 pm

Wendell Carter and Kevin Knox both looking really nice in Summer League. It's only SL, but still, encouraging.

Remember how many people said they wouldn't watch the team/be angry if we drafted either of those players and only wanted Trae Young?

(To be fair, I wasn't a believer in Knox at 6. Only wanted him if we would've traded back a bit.)
www.rareslums.com // please support my writing!
User avatar
PrimeThyme
RealGM
Posts: 10,587
And1: 14,523
Joined: May 25, 2016
Location: Doak Campbell
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#453 » by PrimeThyme » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:04 pm

SOUL wrote:Wendell Carter and Kevin Knox both looking really nice in Summer League. It's only SL, but still, encouraging.

Remember how many people said they wouldn't watch the team/be angry if we drafted either of those players and only wanted Trae Young?

(To be fair, I wasn't a believer in Knox at 6. Only wanted him if we would've traded back a bit.)

Personally, the only player that I threatened to not watch summer league if we drafted was Sexton. I never even remotely considered Knox a option at 6. WCJ would have been really disappointing if Young was still on the board but I liked him as a prospect. In fairness to Sexton, I think he is going to be a good player but his skillset was just too similar to Elf's to me and the NBA is moving away from that type of point guard imo.
Image
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 28,450
And1: 29,597
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Jersey
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#454 » by Knightro » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:30 pm

I will say this about Wendell Carter Jr...

That kid looks like he’s shed at least 10-15 lbs of baby fat since Duke which is a super encouraging sign if you’re Chicago.

It’s just summer league right now and he’s not playing against many NBA caliber bigs, so we’ll have to see how it translates during the season. But his explosiveness looks much better than it did at any point at Duke.
User avatar
Nemesis21
RealGM
Posts: 39,228
And1: 6,615
Joined: Feb 11, 2006
Location: Free Nemesis21
         

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#455 » by Nemesis21 » Wed Jul 11, 2018 11:47 pm

SOUL wrote:Wendell Carter and Kevin Knox both looking really nice in Summer League. It's only SL, but still, encouraging.

Remember how many people said they wouldn't watch the team/be angry if we drafted either of those players and only wanted Trae Young?

(To be fair, I wasn't a believer in Knox at 6. Only wanted him if we would've traded back a bit.)



I would have liked him or Walker, if we traded back.
User avatar
NavalAviator94
Analyst
Posts: 3,495
And1: 1,471
Joined: Jul 24, 2014
Location: Frisco, TX
     

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#456 » by NavalAviator94 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:00 am

SOUL wrote:Wendell Carter and Kevin Knox both looking really nice in Summer League. It's only SL, but still, encouraging.

Remember how many people said they wouldn't watch the team/be angry if we drafted either of those players and only wanted Trae Young?

(To be fair, I wasn't a believer in Knox at 6. Only wanted him if we would've traded back a bit.)


I started a thread on Wendell once I realized he could be in the mix. Once I researched him he was my guy if Bamba and Doncic were off the table. Trae just seemed too risky. He's ready to play in the NBA today but I think Bamba will be better in time.

This was a great draft in the sense there were so many good players out there that I learned a lot. I'm looking forward to following these guys career. I think it will turn out to be one of the best draft classes in a long time.
User avatar
PrimeThyme
RealGM
Posts: 10,587
And1: 14,523
Joined: May 25, 2016
Location: Doak Campbell
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#457 » by PrimeThyme » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:29 am

Good to see Young playing well. Summer League is designed for guards like Trae to thrive so it's encouraging to see him find his way.
Image
User avatar
Knightro
Forum Mod - Magic
Forum Mod - Magic
Posts: 28,450
And1: 29,597
Joined: Dec 18, 2010
Location: Jersey
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#458 » by Knightro » Thu Jul 12, 2018 2:43 am

sportsrock37 wrote:Anyone know what seed we ended up getting and if we won who we'd play?


Magic are the 11 seed. Facing the 22 seed Jazz.

If they win, they'll play the winner of Thunder/Grizzlies on Saturday at 7:30pm ET.

If they lose, they'll play the loser of Thunder/Grizzlies on Friday at 5:30pm ET.

Read on Twitter
User avatar
pinoynurse
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,263
And1: 364
Joined: Oct 21, 2008
Location: san fernando, philippines
Contact:
 

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#459 » by pinoynurse » Thu Jul 12, 2018 4:40 am

Knightro wrote:I will say this about Wendell Carter Jr...

That kid looks like he’s shed at least 10-15 lbs of baby fat since Duke which is a super encouraging sign if you’re Chicago.

It’s just summer league right now and he’s not playing against many NBA caliber bigs, so we’ll have to see how it translates during the season. But his explosiveness looks much better than it did at any point at Duke.


scouts were concerned with his defensive switching ability. So far he is showing great defense on the switch able to keep up with guards and defending the rim. I felt he would be good but not THIS good. he will be better than bagley


Sexton is the guy i wouldve been IRATE if we drafted.

Back to back good games for trae young, happy for the kid
From strength, learn gentleness. Through gentleness, strength will prevail.
zaymon
Head Coach
Posts: 6,084
And1: 3,415
Joined: Jul 01, 2015
   

Re: 2018 Summer League General Discussion 

Post#460 » by zaymon » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:57 am

pinoynurse wrote:
Knightro wrote:I will say this about Wendell Carter Jr...

That kid looks like he’s shed at least 10-15 lbs of baby fat since Duke which is a super encouraging sign if you’re Chicago.

It’s just summer league right now and he’s not playing against many NBA caliber bigs, so we’ll have to see how it translates during the season. But his explosiveness looks much better than it did at any point at Duke.


scouts were concerned with his defensive switching ability. So far he is showing great defense on the switch able to keep up with guards and defending the rim. I felt he would be good but not THIS good. he will be better than bagley


Sexton is the guy i wouldve been IRATE if we drafted.

Back to back good games for trae young, happy for the kid


I think there is scenario where Carter ends up better than Bamba. I like our kid and the potential is there but he plays basketball for a long time and he still dont know whats he doing. Hanlen said they needed to build his skill set from the ground. Its a little concerning that he is so much behind Carter being older than him.
My money is on Banchero going number 1 !

Return to Orlando Magic