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Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#441 » by dsg2021 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:02 pm

Knightro wrote:I think people are going to be very surprised/disappointed at how little the Magic get back for Vucevic if they trade him at all.

An expiring contract and a second round pick is all I'd expect them to get back.

Really you're only getting rid of him just to get rid of him and open up the starting C spot for Bamba.


I don't think ORL wants to trade him. They'd rather just let him walk. Then the big surprise is that he was way more wanted in that summer than people were gonna think. Shame some teams won't do a proper trade offer for him when then get hit by the surprise he wasn't some easy Plan B or C in FA this summer. Ian Mahinmi for 15 mil per coming up!
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#442 » by Airgordon00 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:02 pm

If we were somehow able to trade for butler and Kyrie would we then have bird rights to offer them both 5 year deals instead of 4?


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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#443 » by tiderulz » Sun Oct 28, 2018 3:10 pm

Airgordon00 wrote:If we were somehow able to trade for butler and Kyrie would we then have bird rights to offer them both 5 year deals instead of 4?


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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#444 » by j-ragg » Sun Oct 28, 2018 4:16 pm

Knightro wrote:I think people are going to be very surprised/disappointed at how little the Magic get back for Vucevic if they trade him at all.

An expiring contract and a second round pick is all I'd expect them to get back.

Really you're only getting rid of him just to get rid of him and open up the starting C spot for Bamba.

We agree here. I'd be doing jumping jacks personally.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#445 » by GatorbaitDD » Sun Oct 28, 2018 5:31 pm

Knightro wrote:I think people are going to be very surprised/disappointed at how little the Magic get back for Vucevic if they trade him at all.

An expiring contract and a second round pick is all I'd expect them to get back.

Really you're only getting rid of him just to get rid of him and open up the starting C spot for Bamba.


Agreed, but I think the Lakers are a good potential trading partner. I'd gladly take a 2nd and someone like Zubac or Wagner as a cheap prospect to fill out our C spot.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#446 » by Rayshard7 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 7:41 pm

Orlando will receive the most favorable of its 2019 2nd round pick, Cleveland's 2019 2nd round pick, Houston's 2019 2nd round pick and Portland's 2019 2nd round pick;

Magic currently have the 7th pick, 31st pick and 41st pick. Once Wizards, Rockets and OKC start winning we will have the 4th, 31st and 41st. I really want us to land RJ Barrett, Ja Morant and Porter or Admiral Schofield.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#447 » by pepe1991 » Sun Oct 28, 2018 8:54 pm

Bucks page about Orlando

"The Magic, as a unit, are not.
Orlando entered last night’s game as they’ve entered many games before: in the middle of the standings, and with a collection of interesting players who fit weirdly when put together. Aaron Gordon is one of the most recognizable Orlando players, but mustered only 9 points and 5 boards. Jonathan Isaac is in his sophomore season and had more blocks (3) than points (2). Nikola Vucevic is a hefty Euro with a healthy midrange shot, but his 16 points and 9 rebounds lead the team only by definition.

Mo Bamba looked lost. Evan Fournier looked unimpressive. D.J. Augustin looked like a guy who can hit pull-up threes...and little else. Jonathon Simmons looked slow, and Terrence Ross looked inept. The Magic tipped a bunch of Milwaukee passes, but other than that it’s difficult to discern exactly what they’re actually good at."
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#448 » by OrlandO » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:07 pm

Analyzing this team as if it's supposed to be a finished product is pointless. We've got more placeholders than core players on the team right now. Next summer the majority of the players probably won't be here. A year after that the remaining players from this roster will dwindle down to 2 or 3.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#449 » by PennytoShaq » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:21 pm

Exactly. When people accept that we had to rebuild again it will make this stuff easier to deal with. I still think this team is a basically Isaac and Bamba and the rest is assets or guys on cheap deals. Fully expect us to tank this year. We are off to a good start.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#450 » by basketballRob » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:36 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Bucks page about Orlando

"The Magic, as a unit, are not.
Orlando entered last night’s game as they’ve entered many games before: in the middle of the standings, and with a collection of interesting players who fit weirdly when put together. Aaron Gordon is one of the most recognizable Orlando players, but mustered only 9 points and 5 boards. Jonathan Isaac is in his sophomore season and had more blocks (3) than points (2). Nikola Vucevic is a hefty Euro with a healthy midrange shot, but his 16 points and 9 rebounds lead the team only by definition.

Mo Bamba looked lost. Evan Fournier looked unimpressive. D.J. Augustin looked like a guy who can hit pull-up threes...and little else. Jonathon Simmons looked slow, and Terrence Ross looked inept. The Magic tipped a bunch of Milwaukee passes, but other than that it’s difficult to discern exactly what they’re actually good at."


I think this team will look a lot better once practices start to lighten up. Being in great condition helps with injuries but worn out legs are bad for playing the game.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#451 » by PrimeThyme » Sun Oct 28, 2018 9:36 pm

pepe1991 wrote:Bucks page about Orlando

"The Magic, as a unit, are not.
Orlando entered last night’s game as they’ve entered many games before: in the middle of the standings, and with a collection of interesting players who fit weirdly when put together. Aaron Gordon is one of the most recognizable Orlando players, but mustered only 9 points and 5 boards. Jonathan Isaac is in his sophomore season and had more blocks (3) than points (2). Nikola Vucevic is a hefty Euro with a healthy midrange shot, but his 16 points and 9 rebounds lead the team only by definition.

Mo Bamba looked lost. Evan Fournier looked unimpressive. D.J. Augustin looked like a guy who can hit pull-up threes...and little else. Jonathon Simmons looked slow, and Terrence Ross looked inept. The Magic tipped a bunch of Milwaukee passes, but other than that it’s difficult to discern exactly what they’re actually good at."

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#452 » by Ducklett » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:28 pm

PennytoShaq wrote:Exactly. When people accept that we had to rebuild again it will make this stuff easier to deal with. I still think this team is a basically Isaac and Bamba and the rest is assets or guys on cheap deals. Fully expect us to tank this year. We are off to a good start.


I am fine with rebuilding correctly. We haven't made trades in two years that lead me to believe that we are doing that.

I am of the opinion that we are "tanking" because our front office is totally inept at basketball, not because it is some elaborate plan to make it "stealth".
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#453 » by PennytoShaq » Sun Oct 28, 2018 10:56 pm

Ducklett wrote:
PennytoShaq wrote:Exactly. When people accept that we had to rebuild again it will make this stuff easier to deal with. I still think this team is a basically Isaac and Bamba and the rest is assets or guys on cheap deals. Fully expect us to tank this year. We are off to a good start.


I am fine with rebuilding correctly. We haven't made trades in two years that lead me to believe that we are doing that.

I am of the opinion that we are "tanking" because our front office is totally inept at basketball, not because it is some elaborate plan to make it "stealth".


right, they are inept at basketball but who are you exactly? A random guy on the internet with a my little pony avatar.

It’s just funny how guys like you pop in and complain about how bad the team is , but then also assume it can all be magically fixed in less than two years.

This not a cartoon, it’s not how it works unfortunately. Let us know the trades you would have made and please show where there was actual interest in our players you wanted traded as well.

I like to give a FO 3 years to show what they can do and young draft picks 3-4. As a result I have been called a FO defender, but I’m more of a defender of having patience than anything.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#454 » by Def Swami » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:10 am

It's a 6 game sample size, but pretty much what I expected from the Magic so far. The Magic really needed someone to take a leap for them to have a shot this year. Aaron Gordon has been so hit or miss, but mostly miss so far. Mo Bamba and Jon Isaac are barely involved. Vucevic and Fournier still dominate the offense, which is 29th in the league and last in points per game. The defense is okay, but not great enough to carry an anemic offense. Clifford has done a good job improving ball and off ball movement to get scoring opportunities; I actually like a lot of his sets. But it really doesn't matter since so many of the players we rely on are below average scorers and shooters, and absolutely woeful playmakers.

I was dubious as to the team's objectives for the season and remain so. It feels like they're really trying to win games. Clifford is relying on his vets and leaning on them to carry the offense. To no one's surprise, after 5 long seasons and 1 crucial evaluation season, the players still are who they are. Some argued that maybe Clifford + health + continuity + internal growth would lead to a 10 extra wins, but I just don't see it. The offense is so awful without any hope for improvement, and the rest of the league's offenses have gotten better by placing a premium on shooting and scoring. The Magic simply can't hang points with 90% of the league unless their opponents have equally woeful shooting nights like Boston did. It's a game of math that the Magic are going to be at a severe disadvantage every night.

The Magic aren't going to make any roster changes after 6 games. Hell, they didn't make any after 82 last season. But what's the point of these games? I imagine Weltman and Hammond are just taking this period until December 15th (when recently signed free agents can be traded) to evaluate some more. I get the feeling that these games are quickly going to become very meaningless in a month or so,

This year should be about developing Gordon, Isaac, and Bamba. I'm sure Clifford is a good teacher and has instilled some discipline in the team. I just don't think it matters if players like Vucevic, Fournier, Ross, Simmons, DJ, Grant aren't pillars of a future and unlikely to even be here next year.

Had a friend ask a Magic exec one time what the point of the Biyombo for Mozgov deal was about. The exec said it was "just to shuffle the deck." We knew what it meant; the outcome is the same with either player but the Magic just needed to move on and change the look. I feel that way about Vucevic and Fournier. They're actually pretty good players IMHO. They'll be really good for whatever their next teams are. Like Knightro said, the Magic aren't going to get much for an expiring contract like Vucevic's. But if the Magic are going to lose a lot of games with Fournier and Vucevic, like they have for almost 5 seasons, then it might be time to simply "shuffle the deck" and rejuvenate the franchise with a different look. I think it's only a matter of time, but we'll see.

I held out a slimmer open-minded hope that the Magic might be okay this year and compete for a playoff spot. It was going to take one player making that leap. It's not happening. This roster is so lopsided. The goals for this team should be to completely overhaul it. They desperately need to move their stable of big men for young guards, wings, playmakers, and shooters. They just need to rebuild this team. Rob Hennigan acquired a stable of nice young players, but doomed himself by never building a team that played well as a unit. At some point, I’d like to see the Magic morph into a team that actually makes sense in 2018. Even if it’s full of young, unproven players, I prefer to see a team that fits well together with players that have more defined and well-rounded skillsets.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#455 » by PennytoShaq » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:17 am

If you want all that to happen then we need to keep losing games. And since everyone thinks this team is bad , then we probably will. Once that happens, expect trades and movement.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#456 » by fendilim » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:38 am

Lets face it, last season early success was merely an anomaly. There was no way Aaron Gordon would average 57% the whole season from three. Evan and Vuc also averaged around 50% from three.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#457 » by Def Swami » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:46 am

PennytoShaq wrote:If you want all that to happen then we need to keep losing games. And since everyone thinks this team is bad , then we probably will. Once that happens, expect trades and movement.

But why does the team need to be 10-31 by January to expect moves? I think enough fans of the Magic and even the casual fans around the NBA know which direction the team should be moving toward. And maybe the front office does too; I honestly don't know - they haven't been that upfront about their intentions and expectations this season.

I find it understandable where fans are coming from. Weltman and Hammond have several seasons of data on these players before they came to Orlando to have a sense of who they are, and they just got another 82 games of them. They can blame health for last year, but there are fair-minded people who believe this team was going to be bad anyway based on its construction. It shouldn't take half a season for the front office's hand to be forced to finally make a move that changes the core makeup of the team.

At the same time, I understand the business is far more complicated than what we're privy to. None of us want them to make a deal just for the sake of it or one that sets the Magic back. But this is life in the NBA for every front office. Fair or not, it's a results-driven business. Every front office is given a 3 year grace period until fans check out, ownership gets antsy, and the front office gets pressured. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt here. I'm open to seeing what they do by the end of next off-season.

But I understand the dread and misgivings that fans have at the moment about delaying the inevitable moves and actually building a team as opposed to simply collecting assets.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#458 » by PennytoShaq » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:49 am

Because you don't just give away good players. And NBA coaches who come here and GMs all think Vuc and Fournier are good. Dj and the rest are not close to tradable unless the mozgov move excited you.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#459 » by Knightro » Mon Oct 29, 2018 12:55 am

I'm just as content with keeping Vucevic until the end of the season and letting him walk than trading him for another expiring or a worse contract.

There's just no difference to me.

He won't be here this time next year.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG 

Post#460 » by MagicStarwipe » Mon Oct 29, 2018 1:40 am

Knightro wrote:I'm just as content with keeping Vucevic until the end of the season and letting him walk than trading him for another expiring or a worse contract.

There's just no difference to me.

He won't be here this time next year.


Even if it means instead of picking in the top 3, we pick 6th or 7th?
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