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Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#441 » by basketballRob » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:16 am

JF5 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Trading Harris, Dipo, and Sabonis has got us Ross and probably 3 second round picks if OKC is in the top 20 in 2019. I agree with Cedric that we have to get something for Ross.


A lot of value has been lost with what has transpired with those trades in retrospect. Also, the fact that Ross is a 28 y/o inconsistent role player on an expiring contract (and unrestricted) will most likely yield offers of late first round picks at best. I can't see a scenario where this team gets anything in return for him.
Well i think we might be able to get Fultz for him.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#442 » by JF5 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:17 am

basketballRob wrote:
JF5 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Trading Harris, Dipo, and Sabonis has got us Ross and probably 3 second round picks if OKC is in the top 20 in 2019. I agree with Cedric that we have to get something for Ross.


A lot of value has been lost with what has transpired with those trades in retrospect. Also, the fact that Ross is a 28 y/o inconsistent role player on an expiring contract (and unrestricted) will most likely yield offers of late first round picks at best. I can't see a scenario where this team gets anything in return for him.
Well i think we might be able to get Fultz for him.

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I'd have no problem with that tbh...
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#443 » by OrlandoDream » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:57 am

JF5 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Trading Harris, Dipo, and Sabonis has got us Ross and probably 3 second round picks if OKC is in the top 20 in 2019. I agree with Cedric that we have to get something for Ross.


A lot of value has been lost with what has transpired with those trades in retrospect. Also, the fact that Ross is a 28 y/o inconsistent role player on an expiring contract (and unrestricted) will most likely yield offers of late first round picks at best. I can't see a scenario where this team gets anything in return for him.

Have you watched Ross this year? After Vuc he has been our most consistent player on the team. By far. Trading him will be a mistake.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#444 » by JF5 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:08 am

OrlandoDream wrote:
JF5 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Trading Harris, Dipo, and Sabonis has got us Ross and probably 3 second round picks if OKC is in the top 20 in 2019. I agree with Cedric that we have to get something for Ross.


A lot of value has been lost with what has transpired with those trades in retrospect. Also, the fact that Ross is a 28 y/o inconsistent role player on an expiring contract (and unrestricted) will most likely yield offers of late first round picks at best. I can't see a scenario where this team gets anything in return for him.

Have you watched Ross this year? After Vuc he has been our most consistent player on the team. By far. Trading him will be a mistake.


I get that completely... But in the long term the Magic will have a difficult time retaining him with the caliber of teams that will be on the market for his services. On top of that he is 28 and he is a role player... Shouldn't break the bank for him unless this team turns into a championship caliber team in the offseason.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#445 » by OrlandoDream » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:13 am

JF5 wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:
JF5 wrote:
A lot of value has been lost with what has transpired with those trades in retrospect. Also, the fact that Ross is a 28 y/o inconsistent role player on an expiring contract (and unrestricted) will most likely yield offers of late first round picks at best. I can't see a scenario where this team gets anything in return for him.

Have you watched Ross this year? After Vuc he has been our most consistent player on the team. By far. Trading him will be a mistake.


I get that completely... But in the long term the Magic will have a difficult time retaining him with the caliber of teams that will be on the market for his services. On top of that he is 28 and he is a role player... Shouldn't break the bank for him unless this team turns into a championship caliber team in the offseason.

If we can resign him to a 4-5 year 45-55mil deal then you take it. Not many teams are going to dish out 10mil plus for Tross. I still think that the vision is to keep him long term as our starting 2 guard and were trying to get rid of Fournier. Tross is a better player then Fournier in every aspect. We just need him off the bench because our bench scoring is trash and Fournier is the "veteran" so bench role for him isnt in the cards.

Tross also looks like a loyal guy that loves orlando and wants to resign here. Letting him go would be a mistake. We will be a worse team without him unless we get a significant upgrade like Beal at that SG.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#446 » by JF5 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:23 am

OrlandoDream wrote:
JF5 wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:Have you watched Ross this year? After Vuc he has been our most consistent player on the team. By far. Trading him will be a mistake.


I get that completely... But in the long term the Magic will have a difficult time retaining him with the caliber of teams that will be on the market for his services. On top of that he is 28 and he is a role player... Shouldn't break the bank for him unless this team turns into a championship caliber team in the offseason.

If we can resign him to a 4-5 year 45-55mil deal then you take it. Not many teams are going to dish out 10mil plus for Tross. I still think that the vision is to keep him long term as our starting 2 guard and were trying to get rid of Fournier. Tross is a better player then Fournier in every aspect. We just need him off the bench because our bench scoring is trash and Fournier is the "veteran" so bench role for him isnt in the cards.

Tross also looks like a loyal guy that loves orlando and wants to resign here. Letting him go would be a mistake. We will be a worse team without him unless we get a significant upgrade like Beal at that SG.


I'm hoping to keep him at that price... I'm more in the belief that somebody will give him an offer that they know we can't match. If its a contract that involves him getting paid 14+ million a year he's gone for sure.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#447 » by OrlandoDream » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:27 am

JF5 wrote:
OrlandoDream wrote:
JF5 wrote:
I get that completely... But in the long term the Magic will have a difficult time retaining him with the caliber of teams that will be on the market for his services. On top of that he is 28 and he is a role player... Shouldn't break the bank for him unless this team turns into a championship caliber team in the offseason.

If we can resign him to a 4-5 year 45-55mil deal then you take it. Not many teams are going to dish out 10mil plus for Tross. I still think that the vision is to keep him long term as our starting 2 guard and were trying to get rid of Fournier. Tross is a better player then Fournier in every aspect. We just need him off the bench because our bench scoring is trash and Fournier is the "veteran" so bench role for him isnt in the cards.

Tross also looks like a loyal guy that loves orlando and wants to resign here. Letting him go would be a mistake. We will be a worse team without him unless we get a significant upgrade like Beal at that SG.


I'm hoping to keep him at that price... I'm more in the belief that somebody will give him an offer that they know we can't match. If its a contract that involves him getting paid 14+ million a year he's gone for sure.

I dont see any team giving Tross a 14mil per year long term deal and offering a starting spot. Maybe the Nets if they renounce DLo and miss out on big free agents?

Idk, I think he wants to stay and we want to keep him. He also plays best alongside Isaac and Bamba(who are the future). Id trade Fournier bc he is a bench player staring on this team. Also its possible that we are not starting Ross to hold back how much he gets on the market to the hope to resign him at a lower price and start him next year.

TRoss is prob our 3rd best player on the team right now. No way we let him walk. We need to retain as much talent as possible.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#448 » by tiderulz » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:34 am

OrlandoDream wrote:
JF5 wrote:
basketballRob wrote:Trading Harris, Dipo, and Sabonis has got us Ross and probably 3 second round picks if OKC is in the top 20 in 2019. I agree with Cedric that we have to get something for Ross.


A lot of value has been lost with what has transpired with those trades in retrospect. Also, the fact that Ross is a 28 y/o inconsistent role player on an expiring contract (and unrestricted) will most likely yield offers of late first round picks at best. I can't see a scenario where this team gets anything in return for him.

Have you watched Ross this year? After Vuc he has been our most consistent player on the team. By far. Trading him will be a mistake.

so 22 good games this year out of 29, but 2 more years of less then average offensive play. i would agree with the inconsistent label.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#449 » by EAS Law » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:58 am

I think it is underestimated how bad Fultz is. Think like, probably won’t be in the league soon bad. As in, NO team has offered even a 20-30 1st for him otherwise he’d have been gone by now.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#450 » by EAS Law » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:01 am

And I think there is an unhealthy fixation with trading away all of our players as soon as they start playing well. Granted, I don’t believe anyone on the roster is untradeable, but some of the names I see thrown around are ridiculous. Far too frequently, we dismiss production and solid play as “stat padding” despite actually winning games now, and we think trading away our good starters or fringe starters for role player 2nd and 3rd string guys will somehow make us better because of advanced stats. It’s a crapshoot when you have samples from garbage time or against second units.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#451 » by OrlandoDream » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:16 am



Im calling the nets and trying my best to get DLo before the deadline. They have chosen Dinwiddie over Dlo with the extension and wont be able to afford DLo if they still plan to go after a max free agent this offseason. If Nets dont end up trading him, im calling his agent at 12:01 when free agency starts and get a deal with DLo. Only 22yo, career highs, and maturity issues are behind him. Also a pure scorer at that PG with playmaking abilities. It makes too much sense.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#452 » by VFX » Mon Dec 17, 2018 3:40 am

EAS Law wrote:And I think there is an unhealthy fixation with trading away all of our players as soon as they start playing well. Granted, I don’t believe anyone on the roster is untradeable, but some of the names I see thrown around are ridiculous. Far too frequently, we dismiss production and solid play as “stat padding” despite actually winning games now, and we think trading away our good starters or fringe starters for role player 2nd and 3rd string guys will somehow make us better because of advanced stats. It’s a crapshoot when you have samples from garbage time or against second units.


It’s because the majority of the players on this roster are role players. There isn’t one player outside of Vuc that can be relied upon to consistently score 15-20 points a night.

AG comes the closest at a 15ppg avg, but has nights where he completely disappears. You simply can’t field a team like that year in and year out expecting different results. Selling high is a real thing that must be done. Any of these role players would look great next to a star. The Magic simply don’t have that player.

For any of this to change you are either trading for a diamond in the rough, finding one through the draft luckily past pick 8 (at this rate), or expecting some kind of ungodly development that has yet to be seen. That’s why you cut the bull**** and trade what would be role players on a truly competitive squad.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#453 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:13 pm

EAS Law wrote:I think it is underestimated how bad Fultz is. Think like, probably won’t be in the league soon bad. As in, NO team has offered even a 20-30 1st for him otherwise he’d have been gone by now.


I am not so sure. It may be possible that he could still be a solid player.

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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#454 » by woosah » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:20 pm

BadMofoPimp wrote:
EAS Law wrote:I think it is underestimated how bad Fultz is. Think like, probably won’t be in the league soon bad. As in, NO team has offered even a 20-30 1st for him otherwise he’d have been gone by now.


I am not so sure. It may be possible that he could still be a solid player.


It will come down to what people believe. If we backed off from IT due to not being sure about the medicals as speculated, then how can we go for Fultz with all the doctors and not even sure he can be treated successfully? It's super risky and our FO is super safe. Not a match to me.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#455 » by BadMofoPimp » Mon Dec 17, 2018 1:23 pm

woosah wrote:
BadMofoPimp wrote:
EAS Law wrote:I think it is underestimated how bad Fultz is. Think like, probably won’t be in the league soon bad. As in, NO team has offered even a 20-30 1st for him otherwise he’d have been gone by now.


I am not so sure. It may be possible that he could still be a solid player.


It will come down to what people believe. If we backed off from IT due to not being sure about the medicals as speculated, then how can we go for Fultz with all the doctors and not even sure he can be treated successfully? It's super risky and our FO is super safe. Not a match to me.


This is probably why nobody has pulled any triggers thus far. We are all waiting to see the final prognosis and treatment.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#456 » by drsd » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:21 pm

Apparently the Magic has their 14-15 record by playing against teams with a 55% win rate (5th hardest in the league). Now they close out the reset of the season with teams at a 45% win rate (5th easiest left for all teams). Given this is more than half their games left against "easier" teams then they have faced, might we be looking at a 41-win season? Can we dream ????

..
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#457 » by pepe1991 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:03 pm



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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#458 » by Knightro » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:11 pm

Read on Twitter


I was going to save this for the upcoming 30 game report, but it's worth pointing out.

The Magic have slowly but surely started to make gains in the defensive rebounding department. That's always been a staple of Clifford teams.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#459 » by The Effect » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:50 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:Im calling the nets and trying my best to get DLo before the deadline. They have chosen Dinwiddie over Dlo with the extension and wont be able to afford DLo if they still plan to go after a max free agent this offseason. If Nets dont end up trading him, im calling his agent at 12:01 when free agency starts and get a deal with DLo. Only 22yo, career highs, and maturity issues are behind him. Also a pure scorer at that PG with playmaking abilities. It makes too much sense.

If the nets were willing to do Dlo for Ross straight up (or even include the OKC pick), id do it right now

22yo who would be our starting PG for a long time
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Re: Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XX: Year of the Vuc 

Post#460 » by Def Swami » Mon Dec 17, 2018 6:51 pm

OrlandoDream wrote:

Im calling the nets and trying my best to get DLo before the deadline. They have chosen Dinwiddie over Dlo with the extension and wont be able to afford DLo if they still plan to go after a max free agent this offseason. If Nets dont end up trading him, im calling his agent at 12:01 when free agency starts and get a deal with DLo. Only 22yo, career highs, and maturity issues are behind him. Also a pure scorer at that PG with playmaking abilities. It makes too much sense.

He's my main trade/free agency target for the Magic. 22 years old with lots of room to grow still. He fits exactly what we need.

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