Elf traded to Phoenix for second rounder

[woosah]

Thinking that the NBA rewards the "patient fan" some quality naïveté right there.

No, it's just reality.

Naive was guys like you thinking that Elf is an NBA starter. He's not. the Suns will figure that out once they keep losing games.

I understand that people are salty because they were in denial that Elf would be traded and he had no value around the league. But that's what happened and that's how it is. Blaming management and ownership won't give the guy a motor or a 3 ball. Sorry.

So Bledsoe was not an NBA starter because they lost a hell of a lot of games when he was there. Got it.

[woosah]

People are still ignorant to the issues that held Elfrid (and the team) back here. Doesn't matter, I'm enjoying seeing him play for an organisation that is putting this much trust in him. He's even taking more jumpers now. Keep making us look stupid so everyones ass here can get fired EP. It's a clown show.

Id say the main clown on our show is vogel... the main thing you wrote on your post is trust... EP is getting the trust in his coach unlike he got in Orlando...

Look at EP's past 3 games... although losses, EP's play have been pretty good. I guarantee you his last 3 games would look nothing like that if it was in a Orlando magic jersey

Y'all do know Phoenix is doing the same thing we are. They want a high pick too. But yeah agree, Vogel is not good. Disappointing as i thought he would be better.

[NBlue]

Thinking that the NBA rewards the "patient fan" some quality naïveté right there.

I understand that people are salty because they were in denial that Elf would be traded and he had no value around the league. But that's what happened and that's how it is. Blaming management and ownership won't give the guy a motor or a 3 ball. Sorry.

Exactly.

The bigger point is that this current team, with a miscast roster and Vogel, isn’t better or worse with EP. Why then is this thread so long?

We saw enough of him to know what he is and isn’t capable of while in Orlando. If he happens to become a better player it’s because his situation has changed.

The real reason to blame management is because moves should have been made to this roster seasons ago - it didn’t work. You saw it, I saw it, we all did.

Then season after season EP’s hair trunk gets longer, his range doesn’t, and people still think we gave up on him?

If all the Magic players seem to get better after they leave here have you considered the possibility the problem isn't them -- its us?

[VFX]

I understand that people are salty because they were in denial that Elf would be traded and he had no value around the league. But that's what happened and that's how it is. Blaming management and ownership won't give the guy a motor or a 3 ball. Sorry.

Exactly.

The bigger point is that this current team, with a miscast roster and Vogel, isn’t better or worse with EP. Why then is this thread so long?

We saw enough of him to know what he is and isn’t capable of while in Orlando. If he happens to become a better player it’s because his situation has changed.

The real reason to blame management is because moves should have been made to this roster seasons ago - it didn’t work. You saw it, I saw it, we all did.

Then season after season EP’s hair trunk gets longer, his range doesn’t, and people still think we gave up on him?

If all the Magic players seem to get better after they leave here have you considered the possibility the problem isn't them -- its us?

It’s us only in the aspect that the roster hasn’t made sense in a long time and hasn’t been a conducive environment for young players.

[NBlue]

Exactly.

The bigger point is that this current team, with a miscast roster and Vogel, isn’t better or worse with EP. Why then is this thread so long?

We saw enough of him to know what he is and isn’t capable of while in Orlando. If he happens to become a better player it’s because his situation has changed.

The real reason to blame management is because moves should have been made to this roster seasons ago - it didn’t work. You saw it, I saw it, we all did.

Then season after season EP’s hair trunk gets longer, his range doesn’t, and people still think we gave up on him?

If all the Magic players seem to get better after they leave here have you considered the possibility the problem isn't them -- its us?

It’s us only in the aspect that the roster hasn’t made sense in a long time and hasn’t been a conducive environment for young players.

Ummmm, yeah. But besides those two minor things we are basically the Spurs.

[VFX]

If all the Magic players seem to get better after they leave here have you considered the possibility the problem isn't them -- its us?

It’s us only in the aspect that the roster hasn’t made sense in a long time and hasn’t been a conducive environment for young players.

Ummmm, yeah. But besides those two minor things we are basically the Spurs.

No. What I mean by that is : players are pretty much playing to their abilities, regardless of what organization they play for, and mostly because of the roster and situation on said team.

It’s not like players get worse playing here out of thin air, just like stepping in San Antonio doesn’t make you immediately better.

Sure, player development is important, but to not act like this doesn’t fall on a players lack of ability at all is ridiculous.

[PennytoShaq]

Thinking that the NBA rewards the "patient fan" some quality naïveté right there.

No, it's just reality.

Naive was guys like you thinking that Elf is an NBA starter. He's not. the Suns will figure that out once they keep losing games.

I understand that people are salty because they were in denial that Elf would be traded and he had no value around the league. But that's what happened and that's how it is. Blaming management and ownership won't give the guy a motor or a 3 ball. Sorry.

So Bledsoe was not an NBA starter because they lost a hell of a lot of games when he was there. Got it.

I guess you didn't watch NBA basketball in 2013-215, so let me help you out - the Suns rosters were bad. Real bad. The Suns roster now is rebuilt with young guys and ready to play for the future. That's why I said "keep losing"". I guess I have to spell that out.

BTW, the Suns kept Eric Bledsoe over IT. So either, the Suns are really bad judges of PGs or Bledsoe was really good, and not the reason the Suns were losing. Either way, it goes against your narrative.

[woosah]

No, it's just reality.

Naive was guys like you thinking that Elf is an NBA starter. He's not. the Suns will figure that out once they keep losing games.

I understand that people are salty because they were in denial that Elf would be traded and he had no value around the league. But that's what happened and that's how it is. Blaming management and ownership won't give the guy a motor or a 3 ball. Sorry.

So Bledsoe was not an NBA starter because they lost a hell of a lot of games when he was there. Got it.

I guess you didn't watch NBA basketball in 2013-215, so let me help you out - the Suns rosters were bad. Real bad. The Suns roster now is rebuilt with young guys and ready to play for the future. That's why I said "keep losing"". I guess I have to spell that out.

BTW, the Suns kept Eric Bledsoe over IT. So either, the Suns are really bad judges of PGs or Bledsoe was really good, and not the reason the Suns were losing. Either way, it goes against your narrative.

The narrative that the team result renders some specific judgement about a player was yours not mine. It wasn't Bledsoe's fault, and it isn't Payton's either.

[PennytoShaq]

So Bledsoe was not an NBA starter because they lost a hell of a lot of games when he was there. Got it.

I guess you didn't watch NBA basketball in 2013-215, so let me help you out - the Suns rosters were bad. Real bad. The Suns roster now is rebuilt with young guys and ready to play for the future. That's why I said "keep losing"". I guess I have to spell that out.

BTW, the Suns kept Eric Bledsoe over IT. So either, the Suns are really bad judges of PGs or Bledsoe was really good, and not the reason the Suns were losing. Either way, it goes against your narrative.

The narrative that the team result renders some specific judgement about a player was yours not mine. It wasn't Bledsoe's fault, and it isn't Payton's either.

Again, you miss the point. Elf got traded for a 2nd round pick. He's not the PG of the future for the Magic, and most likely will not be for the Suns either.

[woosah]

I guess you didn't watch NBA basketball in 2013-215, so let me help you out - the Suns rosters were bad. Real bad. The Suns roster now is rebuilt with young guys and ready to play for the future. That's why I said "keep losing"". I guess I have to spell that out.

BTW, the Suns kept Eric Bledsoe over IT. So either, the Suns are really bad judges of PGs or Bledsoe was really good, and not the reason the Suns were losing. Either way, it goes against your narrative.

The narrative that the team result renders some specific judgement about a player was yours not mine. It wasn't Bledsoe's fault, and it isn't Payton's either.

Again, you miss the point. Elf got traded for a 2nd round pick. He's not the PG of the future for the Magic, and most likely will not be for the Suns either.

PennytoShaq wrote:

No, it's just reality.

Naive was guys like you thinking that Elf is an NBA starter. He's not. the Suns will figure that out once they keep losing games.

That is what i responded to. You said it. Don't get mad at me because i pointed out the bad logic.

It's fine that he wasn't the pg of the future for the magic. Life goes on.

[PennytoShaq]

The narrative that the team result renders some specific judgement about a player was yours not mine. It wasn't Bledsoe's fault, and it isn't Payton's either.

Again, you miss the point. Elf got traded for a 2nd round pick. He's not the PG of the future for the Magic, and most likely will not be for the Suns either.

PennytoShaq wrote:

No, it's just reality.

Naive was guys like you thinking that Elf is an NBA starter. He's not. the Suns will figure that out once they keep losing games.

That is what i responded to. You said it. Don't get mad at me because i pointed out the bad logic.

It's fine that he wasn't the pg of the future for the magic. Life goes on.

Logic is and was sound. Anyone who understands modern basketball knew Elf was out of here. I doubt he turns it around on the Suns, but I am rooting for him. I have been watching the Suns more since the trade.

[woosah]

Again, you miss the point. Elf got traded for a 2nd round pick. He's not the PG of the future for the Magic, and most likely will not be for the Suns either.

PennytoShaq wrote:

No, it's just reality.

Naive was guys like you thinking that Elf is an NBA starter. He's not. the Suns will figure that out once they keep losing games.

That is what i responded to. You said it. Don't get mad at me because i pointed out the bad logic.

It's fine that he wasn't the pg of the future for the magic. Life goes on.

Logic is and was sound. Anyone who understands modern basketball knew Elf was out of here. I doubt he turns it around on the Suns, but I am rooting for him. I have been watching the Suns more since the trade.

ok. Yeah i don't think many expected he would stick around here. His supporters simply don't think he is done cooking yet. He may not stay with PHX but may sign an offer sheet elsewhere. He will keep working and maybe like J Kidd or even Trevor Ariza will find his shot and silence his critics.

[PennytoShaq]

ok

Don't see that happening. Sorry.

[woosah]

:lol: ok

Don't see that happening. Sorry.

ok. that's perfectly fine. your endorsement isn't needed.

[PennytoShaq]

Neither is yours, but here we are. So far, I and many others here have been right about Elf, while you are just employing wishful thinking and lowkey throwing shade at the FO in another thread.

[woosah]

Neither is yours, but here we are. So far, I and many others here have been right about Elf, while you are just employing wishful thinking and lowkey throwing shade at the FO in another thread.

Is there a reason why you are not quoting me but yet responding to me? I know you think you are right but only time will tell if you are so we will just have to wait. "Many agree with me" SO. Many agree with me also.
I'm also HIGHkey throwing shade, and the FO has been awful so it will continue and you will deal. (Or you can add me to foes. whatever you like.) He has improved every season so it's not wishful thinking to think that will continue. The difference between you and i on this is you seem to want to tell people what to think, and i don't care if you don't think like me.

[PennytoShaq]

Neither is yours, but here we are. So far, I and many others here have been right about Elf, while you are just employing wishful thinking and lowkey throwing shade at the FO in another thread.

Is there a reason why you are not quoting me but yet responding to me? I know you think you are right but only time will tell if you are so we will just have to wait. "Many agree with me" SO. Many agree with me also.
I'm also HIGHkey throwing shade, and the FO has been awful so it will continue and you will deal. (Or you can add me to foes. whatever you like.) He has improved every season so it's not wishful thinking to think that will continue. The difference between you and i on this is you seem to want to tell people what to think, and i don't care if you don't think like me.

You still want to keep this going? You just said "the FO has been awful so it will continue and you will deal".

And then you say that I want to tell people how to think? Ok, lol. Thanks for that irony.

[woosah]

Neither is yours, but here we are. So far, I and many others here have been right about Elf, while you are just employing wishful thinking and lowkey throwing shade at the FO in another thread.

Is there a reason why you are not quoting me but yet responding to me? I know you think you are right but only time will tell if you are so we will just have to wait. "Many agree with me" SO. Many agree with me also.
I'm also HIGHkey throwing shade, and the FO has been awful so it will continue and you will deal. (Or you can add me to foes. whatever you like.) He has improved every season so it's not wishful thinking to think that will continue. The difference between you and i on this is you seem to want to tell people what to think, and i don't care if you don't think like me.

You still want to keep this going? You just said "the FO has been awful so it will continue and you will deal".

And then you say that I want to tell people how to think? Ok, lol. Thanks for that irony.

Yeah, you will deal with reading my opinion about he the FO like i will deal with reading yours. You have seen all of these insults for months about EP, no? Have i been in there arguing with people about their opinions? NOPE. You can think what you want. I usually comment when the crap being said is something that can be debated. Many people have been responding to supporters saying "did they win?" when a supporter talks about something good he did. That is stupid because PHX is tanking so it has nothing to do with whether or not EP is a good player or not. Then the same people will laud Mario for good stats. Did WE win? NO, but it's not the goal right now. It doesn't mean he is not showing that he can play NBA ball. So yeah, i responded to you in this thread.

I'm not keeping anything going. You keep responding to me not really saying anything. I guess you feel you must say the last thing but clearly we disagree but this is the ELF thread so people are gonna post in here about him. You don't have to read it if you already know that you don't agree and you think he is a horrible player. You do, then yeah you will deal.

[PennytoShaq]

It takes 2 to tango and you keep quoting me and responding with petty comments like "you are not really not saying anything". I actually am, and it's pretty easy to understand.

Mario is a wing. He is not a PG. Phoenix is getting annihilated with Elf at point. Since Mario has really started getting minutes and putting up numbers, the Magic have barely lost games. We have had to sweat these losses out to the final minutes. And that is with a lot of the main starters injured.

So it's a really bad comparison, because it's not the same thing. The PG is the QB of an NBA team. It's the most demanding position. If you have a guy who is not a good shooter and gives up the point of attack constantly on defense, then that damages your team far more than say, a SF having an off night. It's just how basketball works. That is why I believe the Suns will keep losing with Elf, because it doesn't matter that you had a triple double if you got torched on screens and killed the spacing on offense. Those are things that actually matter long term, especially on a team that still needs shooting to develop at other positions.

[woosah]

It takes 2 to tango and you keep quoting me and responding with petty comments like "you are not really not saying anything". I actually am, and it's pretty easy to understand.

Mario is a wing. He is not a PG. Phoenix is getting annihilated with Elf at point. Since Mario has really started getting minutes and putting up numbers, the Magic have barely lost games. We have had to sweat these losses out to the final minutes. And that is with a lot of the main starters injured. So it's a really bad comparison, because it's not the same thing. The PG is the QB of an NBA team. It's the most demanding position. If you have a guy who is not a good shooter and gives up the point of attack constantly on defense, then that damages your team far more than say, a SF having an off night. It's just how basketball works. That is why I believe the Suns will keep losing with Elf, because it doesn't matter that you had a triple double if you got torched on screens and killed the spacing on offense. Those are things that actually matter long term, especially on a team that still needs shooting to develop at other positions.

Before you weren't. "i'm watching more of his games". ?? That was saying something about Elf and why he won't succeed? ok.

I love how you're now talking down to me like i don't know the players and what they do. I am fully aware of Elfrid's weaknesses. Really, a pg is the qb of the team? You don't say? Tell me, what is the SF? So when EP was giving the ball in great position and the shots weren't made, then that was on him? Yes. Yes it was they say. Um let me go on and help you get all your stuff out. He doesn't defend the pick and roll, he doesn't make shots, he doesn't stay motivated, he doesn't bring home the bacon, he doesn't fry it up in a pan, he doesn't do anything right, aaaand everyone else does so he was the reason for all teh lawses. Oh and his hair makes everyone cry. That about it? Yeah we have heard over and over yet Simmons d is bad, Ev d is bad, Mario, and blah blah through the whole team save Isaac and Gordon so seems the magic have plenty to overcome on defense. We will see who is next to get all the blame. Vuc was the guy for a while, then Elf and now from the games threads i guess it will be Simms lol. Nitpick. Nitpick.

Almost beating a lotto team like Chicago causes you joy. Good for you. Phx has other issues to fix outside of Payton but if you want to blame him then go ahead. The franchise level player they have was out on all but the last one and they held their own, and against better competition while being completely unfamiliar with each other so whatevs.