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Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory

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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#461 » by RookieStar » Thu May 7, 2020 7:59 pm

drsd wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:28 years old who had 1 legit great season in his career, while being 6'3 athletic guard who isn't elite shooter and last 2 years is injury prone.. It's not hard to answer to that question.


To be fair to his measurements, Oladipo is 6'3" because he has the league record in "short neck". His ground-to-shoulder height is good for a SG and his wing span is also good. So his release height is fine on jumpers.


..


Former Magic Legend PG Anthony Johnson would dispute your comment.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#462 » by VFX » Thu May 7, 2020 11:01 pm

pepe1991 wrote:
MagicFan101 wrote:
pepe1991 wrote:
Everything Magic did with Oladipo was schizophrenia - lite behavior.
MIracle happend and he is aveliable after Cavs fu*ery , than you put complete crap around him , they pull him from SG to PG just to squeeze Harkless, Harris and AA in same starting 5.
Next year, after Oladipo mighty struggle to shoot from outside or shoot in general, he is paired with worst shooter of his draft class, who started at PG. To add insult to injury, Magic draft Gordon , who made like 10 threes in his college career.
Over next few seasons Magic have the worst shooting starting 5 in basketball and everything goes to hell.

Once extensions are aveliable, Magic are no longer willing to pay him because they already have their mind set on 1991 Bad Boy Pistons style of basketball with Biyombo, Gordon, Payton and Ibaka, so they pull a trigger on a Ibaka rental.

Oladipo would be collosal fool to return to organisation who did everything in their power to sabotage his growth at every stage after a draft night.
It would be like returning to a wife who tried to poisen you because she at least cooks.


We’re playing the “I’m bored out of my mind, let’s talk about crazy hypothetical scenarios” game. No unbiased fan expects Dipo or any other star to outright sign in Orlando in free agency.

If we want a star it will come through the draft or a trade. Free agents aren’t coming here until we get one.

My original question was simply whether or not Orlando wanted Dipo back under the condition of a guaranteed long term max contract ... the same one it appears Indy is hesitant to offer.

28 years old who had 1 legit great season in his career, while being 6'3 athletic guard who isn't elite shooter and last 2 years is injury prone.. It's not hard to answer to that question.


I agree that Oladipo was never going to be successful in Orlando based on the team he inherited. This is why “fit” matters in the context of skill set and ability when we are talking about roster construction. Asking Oladipo to grow and thrive in that offense was a joke.

That being said, I would have much rather rolled out Oladipo, and eventually an EP replacement, rather than the perpetual **** we have on offense now as an alternative. Its not like it’s gotten significantly better, aside from the roster maturing and becoming more savvy players. That’s why we can easily look at data of Orlando’s ratings on offense year to year.

If you are saying in a hypothetical world that you would rather have Fournier than Oladipo straight up? Nah man. Within context? Sure, I guess.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#463 » by drsd » Fri May 8, 2020 7:20 am

RookieStar wrote:Former Magic Legend PG Anthony Johnson would dispute your comment.



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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#464 » by drsd » Fri May 8, 2020 7:21 am

MagicMatic wrote:If you are saying in a hypothetical world that you would rather have Fournier than Oladipo straight up? Nah man. Within context? Sure, I guess.


Really the question is would we want Fournier on a two-year 30 million deal or Oladipo on a four-year 120 million deal?

That is an easy choice for me: neither.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#465 » by VFX » Fri May 8, 2020 2:16 pm

drsd wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:If you are saying in a hypothetical world that you would rather have Fournier than Oladipo straight up? Nah man. Within context? Sure, I guess.


Really the question is would we want Fournier on a two-year 30 million deal or Oladipo on a four-year 120 million deal?

That is an easy choice for me: neither.


Well of course neither.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#466 » by J the Drafter » Fri May 8, 2020 3:24 pm

MagicMatic wrote:
I agree that Oladipo was never going to be successful in Orlando based on the team he inherited. This is why “fit” matters in the context of skill set and ability when we are talking about roster construction. Asking Oladipo to grow and thrive in that offense was a joke.

Victor got better because his decision-making and skills improved. In Orlando he’d get the ball and dribble with it instead of making a quick decision (drive/shoot/pass). Having better shooters around wouldn’t have stopped him from stopping the ball.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#467 » by VFX » Fri May 8, 2020 3:49 pm

J the Drafter wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
I agree that Oladipo was never going to be successful in Orlando based on the team he inherited. This is why “fit” matters in the context of skill set and ability when we are talking about roster construction. Asking Oladipo to grow and thrive in that offense was a joke.

Victor got better because his decision-making and skills improved. In Orlando he’d get the ball and dribble with it instead of making a quick decision (drive/shoot/pass). Having better shooters around wouldn’t have stopped him from stopping the ball.


Victor got better because he learned what it took to become a professional after being around legitimate star level players (his words). Then he was put into the ideal situation in Indiana where he was given the green light to be the go-to scorer to a team without one.

Who said it was specifically about better shooters in Orlando? Oladipo said himself they were basically competing against each other on the court. That’s not going to promote ball movement. Orlando had a bottom 5-10 offense in every year Oladipo was here.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#468 » by npiper17 » Sat May 9, 2020 10:19 am

MagicMatic wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
I agree that Oladipo was never going to be successful in Orlando based on the team he inherited. This is why “fit” matters in the context of skill set and ability when we are talking about roster construction. Asking Oladipo to grow and thrive in that offense was a joke.

Victor got better because his decision-making and skills improved. In Orlando he’d get the ball and dribble with it instead of making a quick decision (drive/shoot/pass). Having better shooters around wouldn’t have stopped him from stopping the ball.


Victor got better because he learned what it took to become a professional after being around legitimate star level players (his words). Then he was put into the ideal situation in Indiana where he was given the green light to be the go-to scorer to a team without one.

Who said it was specifically about better shooters in Orlando? Oladipo said himself they were basically competing against each other on the court. That’s not going to promote ball movement. Orlando had a bottom 5-10 offense in every year Oladipo was here.


Personally, I think Victor got a lot better because Westbrook showed him how he needed to be in A LOT better shape to be anywhere near the player he wanted to be.

The difference in Victor’s body and stamina between his last year in Orlando and first year in Indy is dramatic.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#469 » by pepe1991 » Sat May 9, 2020 11:40 am

npiper17 wrote:
MagicMatic wrote:
J the Drafter wrote:Victor got better because his decision-making and skills improved. In Orlando he’d get the ball and dribble with it instead of making a quick decision (drive/shoot/pass). Having better shooters around wouldn’t have stopped him from stopping the ball.


Victor got better because he learned what it took to become a professional after being around legitimate star level players (his words). Then he was put into the ideal situation in Indiana where he was given the green light to be the go-to scorer to a team without one.

Who said it was specifically about better shooters in Orlando? Oladipo said himself they were basically competing against each other on the court. That’s not going to promote ball movement. Orlando had a bottom 5-10 offense in every year Oladipo was here.


Personally, I think Victor got a lot better because Westbrook showed him how he needed to be in A LOT better shape to be anywhere near the player he wanted to be.

The difference in Victor’s body and stamina between his last year in Orlando and first year in Indy is dramatic.


i tend to belive Westbrook was the turning point of Oladipo's career and Vic himself said just that couple of times.
Westbrook is workhorse, no matter do you like or dislike his game, it's not hard to see his body, his energy and his no bs - attitude that he brings every game, every practice.
In some QA about closest thing to Jordan - i said Westbrook's dominor is closest to MJ among active players and i trully belive that.

When Norris Cole joined OKC as its third point guard after the All-Star break, Westbrook offered to watch film with him and even gave him detailed scouting reports on each of the team's players. "You hear all the rumors about his practice and preparation and dedication," Cole says. "He's exactly as advertised. Everyone can see that, but you don't know it till you're up close."


There is also stories how he goes balistic over pickup games and treats everything like game 7 of nba finals.
Once you see that type of competitor and where he is at, you start to question your "hard work" and figure your hard work is actually you working 60% of your max level.

I think Dipo saw him and it was eye opener and what type of dedication is needed for next level.
For same reason Ray Allen's teammats always were better shooters with him ( compared to seasons without him) as they would simply follow his routine and figured how benefitial it is to their shooting. :dontknow:
once you meet person who is crazy competitive workhorse it changes your perspective of hard work
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#470 » by Skybox » Sat May 9, 2020 12:01 pm

It’s not really up for much analysis...Victor spelled out exactly that. Westbrook’s mindset and work ethic changed him even though his time next to him on the floor wasn’t super productive. Westbrook embodies much of what is being celebrated about MJ in The Last Dance. He’s no longer an MVP candidate and his skillset doesn’t match MJ’s (of course) but I could see him having a CP3 impact on a talented but still dysfunctional roster (like ours). Butler to Miami is similar. I think our talent isn’t as far off as our team’s mindset. I think a killer like Westbeast or Marcus Smart, etc could goose our young nice guys like Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Gordon to the next level.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#471 » by tiderulz » Sat May 9, 2020 2:57 pm

Skybox wrote:It’s not really up for much analysis...Victor spelled out exactly that. Westbrook’s mindset and work ethic changed him even though his time next to him on the floor wasn’t super productive. Westbrook embodies much of what is being celebrated about MJ in The Last Dance. He’s no longer an MVP candidate and his skillset doesn’t match MJ’s (of course) but I could see him having a CP3 impact on a talented but still dysfunctional roster (like ours). Butler to Miami is similar. I think our talent isn’t as far off as our team’s mindset. I think a killer like Westbeast or Marcus Smart, etc could goose our young nice guys like Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Gordon to the next level.

could say the same thing about Jimmy Butler
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#472 » by j-ragg » Sat May 9, 2020 3:48 pm

Skybox wrote:Westbrook’s mindset and work ethic changed him even though his time next to him on the floor wasn’t super productive. Westbrook embodies much of what is being celebrated about MJ in The Last Dance. He’s no longer an MVP candidate and his skillset doesn’t match MJ’s (of course) but I could see him having a CP3 impact on a talented but still dysfunctional roster (like ours).

Eh. He's one of the worst chuckers in the league. Maybe the only worse starting shooting pg than Fultz. I could see him coming here to dominate usage and getting us from 41 wins to 43.

imo he's one of the worst contracts in the NBA now. CP3's perceived demise was because of injury/age I think. I'm not really worried about that as much with RWB it's the on-the-court product that's rough.

To sum it up I think there's a LOT more downside than upside. But I also think this team needs to do something out of the box and get out of purgatory so I'm not mad at the suggestion, I just can't stand the way he plays. I remember Larry Brown preaching to play the right way with his teams, Westbrook is the opposite of that imo.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#473 » by Skybox » Sat May 9, 2020 6:11 pm

tiderulz wrote:
Skybox wrote:It’s not really up for much analysis...Victor spelled out exactly that. Westbrook’s mindset and work ethic changed him even though his time next to him on the floor wasn’t super productive. Westbrook embodies much of what is being celebrated about MJ in The Last Dance. He’s no longer an MVP candidate and his skillset doesn’t match MJ’s (of course) but I could see him having a CP3 impact on a talented but still dysfunctional roster (like ours). Butler to Miami is similar. I think our talent isn’t as far off as our team’s mindset. I think a killer like Westbeast or Marcus Smart, etc could goose our young nice guys like Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Gordon to the next level.

could say the same thing about Jimmy Butler


yeah, exactly...he's in there :wink:
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#474 » by Skybox » Sat May 9, 2020 6:17 pm

j-ragg wrote:
Skybox wrote:Westbrook’s mindset and work ethic changed him even though his time next to him on the floor wasn’t super productive. Westbrook embodies much of what is being celebrated about MJ in The Last Dance. He’s no longer an MVP candidate and his skillset doesn’t match MJ’s (of course) but I could see him having a CP3 impact on a talented but still dysfunctional roster (like ours).

Eh. He's one of the worst chuckers in the league. Maybe the only worse starting shooting pg than Fultz. I could see him coming here to dominate usage and getting us from 41 wins to 43.

imo he's one of the worst contracts in the NBA now. CP3's perceived demise was because of injury/age I think. I'm not really worried about that as much with RWB it's the on-the-court product that's rough.

To sum it up I think there's a LOT more downside than upside. But I also think this team needs to do something out of the box and get out of purgatory so I'm not mad at the suggestion, I just can't stand the way he plays. I remember Larry Brown preaching to play the right way with his teams, Westbrook is the opposite of that imo.


The guy who I'd most like Fultz to emulate is the former MVP, triple-double averaging, fire-breathing, put this sissy team on his back WestBeast. He's far from a coach's dream but he cries when he loses at ping pong...that's what I want. CP3 was/is widely considered the worst un-tradeable contract in the league and he took a "Dammit Chris, we're trying to lose" team and competes every night. Westbrook's contract and age are the only reasons he might be gotten without gutting our young core. Our guys are vanilla, there's real talent on our roster and if we don't unleash it we'll either never know or watch our guys do it on their next team like Vic. AG, Bamba, and even Evan are real candidates for that, IMO...I'd like to be the rehab factory, starting with Fultz.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#475 » by Skybox » Sat May 9, 2020 6:27 pm

I'll take a chucker...only Giannis, AD, and Jokic and (everybody's metrics whipping boy) Derozan are above 50% fg in the top 30+ scorers. We're so tough on efficiency advanced stats that we amy be downgrading killer competitive drive and willingness to take the shot.
Iverson 42.5 career, Kobe 44.7, Harden 44.2...just something to consider
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#476 » by tiderulz » Sat May 9, 2020 6:59 pm

Skybox wrote:
tiderulz wrote:
Skybox wrote:It’s not really up for much analysis...Victor spelled out exactly that. Westbrook’s mindset and work ethic changed him even though his time next to him on the floor wasn’t super productive. Westbrook embodies much of what is being celebrated about MJ in The Last Dance. He’s no longer an MVP candidate and his skillset doesn’t match MJ’s (of course) but I could see him having a CP3 impact on a talented but still dysfunctional roster (like ours). Butler to Miami is similar. I think our talent isn’t as far off as our team’s mindset. I think a killer like Westbeast or Marcus Smart, etc could goose our young nice guys like Fultz, Isaac, Bamba, Gordon to the next level.

could say the same thing about Jimmy Butler


yeah, exactly...he's in there :wink:

sorry, missed his name in there. eyes getting old :(
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#477 » by rcklsscognition » Sat May 9, 2020 8:02 pm

7-game playoff series in 1 city with 16 teams? We get to sleep at home, get Amway for practice. Games played at Disney, everyone else has to find a HS gym to practice at. Done deal.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#478 » by thelead » Sat May 9, 2020 9:42 pm

rcklsscognition wrote:7-game playoff series in 1 city with 16 teams? We get to sleep at home, get Amway for practice. Games played at Disney, everyone else has to find a HS gym to practice at. Done deal.

And we’ll still lose in the first round unless we get crazy lucky in a best of 3 series.
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#479 » by MasterGMer » Sun May 10, 2020 2:46 am

If the NBA goes until Oct, does that mean the draft will happen in late Oct and Nov before the 2020/21 season starts at Dec 25th 2020?

Also the draft lottery , Combine and players going work out for teams. I do not get the timeline, period
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Re: Official Speculation Thread '19-'20 V: Purgatory 

Post#480 » by thelead » Sun May 10, 2020 3:35 am

MasterGMer wrote:If the NBA goes until Oct, does that mean the draft will happen in late Oct and Nov before the 2020/21 season starts at Dec 25th 2020?

Also the draft lottery , Combine and players going work out for teams. I do not get the timeline, period


They’re going to cancel the season. This virus is highly contagious and can last in the body for weeks. They said they won’t cancel games if someone gets it but it’s going to ruin teams if a few starters get it during the playoffs.

Can you imagine the asterisk that Lakers fans would want on the championship if LeBron catches it and is forced to miss a series against the Clippers? :lol:
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