Official 2024-2025 Magic Trade ideas thread continued

[drsd]

Every fan wants to think their team is win-now...for ORL, we just heard it from the GM's mouth.

I'm assuming POR wants one more crack at the lottery before "flicking the switch". Ayton, Time Lord, Thybulle, etc expire next summer and young guns are up for extensions. If that's accurate, expirings are definitely a reasonable thing for them. Obviously, Simons is expiring too and if some team offered them some exciting young player that would be (maybe) preferable...I know JRoy doesn't want KCP for their young backcourt sissies to learn some toughness and professionalism from - but I'd be interested if he has any insights as to the general vibe coming from the POR FO as far as timeline for jumping in. They looked good as the year went on, but I still am assuming they're a year away from being a year away.

JRoy?

I agree with the notion of your post. But as to Caldwell-Pope in Blazer-land, there is a salary floor Portland must get to. THe team will easily got to the floor this year, but as you note with all the expirings, Portland needs to pick up at least 120M of new salary for the 2026/27 season .
Tanking teams need overpriced, underperforming players. In many ways Caldwell-Pope perfectly fits the expensive, on-floor coach role a tanking team needs from a vet.

Look at the 2021/22 Magic as an example. Orlando paid Harris 21M; he went 11/2/2 on that salary. The Magic paid Isaac 17.4M to not play. Fultz 16.5M for 11/5/3. And Ross 12.5M for 10/2/2.

Wow does Caldwell-Pope line up well here. He's got 2-more years on 21.5M a year. That is perfect for a Utah/Washington/Portland roster as one piece of a trade deal.

[drsd]

If there was an opportunity to trade up to #2 for Dylan Harper, but the cost was Black and several FRP’s would you do it?

The VERY last thing this team needs is a guard that is 2-3 years from contributing positive minutes.
Orlando needs to trade out of the draft, not up.

[cedric76]

do folks really not understand declining options wont give you cash to spend? do they not get franz and suggs contracts go up this yr? do they not understand cap or understand apron yet? funny i keep seeing these posts

What? I’m not sure what kind of point you were trying to make.

In proposing trading those 3 guys in draft night which would give the receiving team the option to decline their deals and save cap space. It’s not about cash to spend, unless the receiving team is only just at or under the cap, it’s about instantly reducing payroll which could be very valuable to teams paying luxury taxes.

Does that mean it would push the Magic’s payroll into luxury taxes? Sure, but contending rosters cost premium $ and that’s a pretty hard reality to escape.

first you have to pick up options to trade them....

Nope, you can trade Gary to a team today and if they don't pick his option, they clear his contract off their Books

[cedric76]

That’s a classic case of premature asset liquidation. Black is 21, already defends at a near elite level, and showed real growth late in the year. Trading that on a rookie deal assumes he won’t bridge the gap and ignores the Magic’s cap arc. You don’t move cost controlled upside unless the return is foundational. If you’re win now blind and dump long term value before it’s priced in, you’re not building, you’re reacting.

This is merely weighing and judging developmental skillsets relative to what your team is lacking.

I would absolutely agree with you IF Anthony Black’s skillset made more sense next to Suggs/Franz/Paolo in a starting lineup. It doesn’t, as this has been explained a number of times.

Players do not randomly acquire skillsets, with huge leaps in development, year over year regardless of their age. Do they develop? Yes. Anthony Black isn’t breaking into the starting lineup for this reason. His skillset is duplicative of Paolo and Franz with the added bonus of switchable defense. No need to go over this again.

NOBODY WOULD HAVE THESE ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE OFFENSE IF THIS WASN'T THE CASE with Anthony Black.

Now, if everyone says “we need help on offense” and AB is absolutely not solving that issue, outside of development, then he is on the block. Simple as that. He is the highest valued asset to a team with limited assets looking to upgrade the exact position he supposedly plays. Not difficult to comprehend.

I’m not having conversations about Anthony Black anymore in the trade thread. People are just delusional propping this kid up to insane levels talking about how he’s relatively untouchable. He’s not. He’s not even relevant to Orlando’s offense and won’t be unless he takes enormous unprecedented leaps in skills yet to be seen.

I say this and I actually like AB as a prospect at face value.

AB's path to starting point guard hinges on becoming a respectable shooter (34%+ catch-and-shoot) and showing he can organize halfcourt offense without killing spacing. He already defends at a high level and fits Mosley’s switch-heavy scheme, but he needs to handle 2nd-side P&R and drive-and-kick with more urgency. All extremely likely developments.

If the front office agrees with me we might see them acquire a high IQ, low-usage, 38%+ from three veteran pointguard to mentor AB. Someone like Tyus, Morris, or Brogdon.

Brogdon is the expiring contract we went after at the trade deadline, so we might try to go after him this summer

[cedric76]

first you have to pick up options to trade them....

My bad, didn’t know that.

Normal, you didn't know that because it s not true:-)

[fendilim]

I agree that he wont be the primary target given the contract size and cost. I think weltman will try again with Coby White or maybe Collin Sexton. Both are on reasonable contracts and resigning we would be able to resign after next season by not picking up/trading certain players.

I just don't see all three KCP, Suggs, and AB coming back next year. Suggs is obv not going anywhere unless some powerhouse offensive star guard becomes available. Weve been spoiled too much by Weltman last couple years on continuity. Yes its nice to keep players you draft and see them grow and lead to winning games but this teams makeup just no longer fits.

I think AB will be the likely target. He has the most value of our young guys and can net us a upgrade backcourt player.

I doubt it. I think AB, KCP, and Suggs are all here. Then, they add a mid level type player like DLo by trading Goga, Cole, or Jett.

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If DLo is the peak offseason move, its going to be a disappointing year. IF someone low target like him or Schroeder really interested Weltman, we would have already acquired them. Those type of targets were on the market for a while before dealt. We have to make a bigger splash.

Schroeder is a lot better option than dlo. Dlo would be a negative signing. I think dennis would at least be a positive more often than dlo.

[JRoy]

Grimes is interesting for the 76ers. I'm sure they'd trade him for Goga.

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Grimes is interesting, no clue what he should get paid. It's gotta be either decent money from the Nets or full MLE right? Just limited options this year for free agents.

I do think we definitely need to acquire a shooter after we figure out who is going to start next to Suggs. Lots of interesting options of guys that may get traded by their teams Klay, Huerter, Wiggins or Joe, Grayson, AJ Green, Powell, Hauser, O'neale, Kispert.

And potential free agents, Merrill, Trent, Melton, Hardaway, D'lo, Kennard, NAW, Grimes, Schroder, Tyus...

Figure out starting PG first for sure, but nobody has money this year, offer one of these guys part of the MLE for a short term deal. NAW and Grimes probably can get the full MLE so less likely.

A Grimes and Herro or Simons off season would be fun

A solid shooter capable of starters minutes wound be great for ORL.

[JRoy]

“Hey Portland can we trade you a bunch of bench trash and a late first for your starting guard that led the team in minutes played and ppg?”

One question is, "who would offer the Blazers more?"

A second question is, What is meant by bench trash"?

THe Blazers would probably be happy to audition Anthony and Howard out (i.e. tank games but see if there is anything there). And for some odd reason, GMs value picks for more than their actual value.

I think Anthony, Howard, and the Denver-pick is pretty close to the maximal value Portland can find for Simons.

Every fan wants to think their team is win-now...for ORL, we just heard it from the GM's mouth.

I'm assuming POR wants one more crack at the lottery before "flicking the switch". Ayton, Time Lord, Thybulle, etc expire next summer and young guns are up for extensions. If that's accurate, expirings are definitely a reasonable thing for them. Obviously, Simons is expiring too and if some team offered them some exciting young player that would be (maybe) preferable...I know JRoy doesn't want KCP for their young backcourt sissies to learn some toughness and professionalism from - but I'd be interested if he has any insights as to the general vibe coming from the POR FO as far as timeline for jumping in. They looked good as the year went on, but I still am assuming they're a year away from being a year away.

JRoy?

Backcourt sissies? lol.

The FO seems to think this iteration of the blazers is ready to compete. Opinions on the boards are divided, but a majority seem to think that the team really needs an all star level player to compete and opinions are divided as to whether we already have that talent on the roster.

POR needs lotto luck or a couple great moves to compete in my opinion.

Doubtful Grant can be moved this year as he ____ his pants this year and it is unlikely he will ever move ahead of Camara or Avdija in the rotation.

Unlikely Ayton gets moved, but possible.

That leaves Simons and Thybulle as the vets most likely to be moved.

[jezzerinho]

Kevin Porter Jr.

Discuss.

[cedric76]

Grimes is interesting, no clue what he should get paid. It's gotta be either decent money from the Nets or full MLE right? Just limited options this year for free agents.

I do think we definitely need to acquire a shooter after we figure out who is going to start next to Suggs. Lots of interesting options of guys that may get traded by their teams Klay, Huerter, Wiggins or Joe, Grayson, AJ Green, Powell, Hauser, O'neale, Kispert.

And potential free agents, Merrill, Trent, Melton, Hardaway, D'lo, Kennard, NAW, Grimes, Schroder, Tyus...

Figure out starting PG first for sure, but nobody has money this year, offer one of these guys part of the MLE for a short term deal. NAW and Grimes probably can get the full MLE so less likely.

A Grimes and Herro or Simons off season would be fun

A solid shooter capable of starters minutes wound be great for ORL.

Grimes would be a nice addition but not sure how much it d cost us to retain him once we trade for him

[Skybox]

One question is, "who would offer the Blazers more?"

A second question is, What is meant by bench trash"?

THe Blazers would probably be happy to audition Anthony and Howard out (i.e. tank games but see if there is anything there). And for some odd reason, GMs value picks for more than their actual value.

I think Anthony, Howard, and the Denver-pick is pretty close to the maximal value Portland can find for Simons.

Every fan wants to think their team is win-now...for ORL, we just heard it from the GM's mouth.

I'm assuming POR wants one more crack at the lottery before "flicking the switch". Ayton, Time Lord, Thybulle, etc expire next summer and young guns are up for extensions. If that's accurate, expirings are definitely a reasonable thing for them. Obviously, Simons is expiring too and if some team offered them some exciting young player that would be (maybe) preferable...I know JRoy doesn't want KCP for their young backcourt sissies to learn some toughness and professionalism from - but I'd be interested if he has any insights as to the general vibe coming from the POR FO as far as timeline for jumping in. They looked good as the year went on, but I still am assuming they're a year away from being a year away.

JRoy?

Backcourt sissies? lol.

The FO seems to think this iteration of the blazers is ready to compete. Opinions on the boards are divided, but a majority seem to think that the team really needs an all star level player to compete and opinions are divided as to whether we already have that talent on the roster.

POR needs lotto luck or a couple great moves to compete in my opinion.

Doubtful Grant can be moved this year as he ____ his pants this year and it is unlikely he will ever move ahead of Camara or Avdija in the rotation.

Unlikely Ayton gets moved, but possible.

That leaves Simons and Thybulle as the vets most likely to be moved.

I guess I'm curious as to whether NEXT summer would be the likely BIG all-in move towards winning...more than THIS summer...with all of the expirings then, it might be the plan to sort of hold steady and add a lotto pick in 2025, not do much other than internal improvement, add a mentor-type vet to help with that but basically try to squeeze one more lottery pick in 2026, along with having a LOT of FA cap space?

I think that would be the more prudent timeline...you'd have Sharpe, Scoot, Avidja, Clingan and two more recent lottery picks, along with spending $$. Plus, you'd have one more year of KCP and an additional pick(s) from ORL to play with.

*I didn't see a lot of POR last year, but they sure handled ORL...the defensive effort was intense across the roster, Scoot seems to have made some real growth...I'd probably still say "year away from all-in"...but if Clingan is ready to make an impact and they get some lottery and draft luck...

[basketballRob]

Royce O'Neal and Grayson Allen seem getable. I'd rather have O'Neal over Harris playing the backup 3.

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[tiderulz]

This is merely weighing and judging developmental skillsets relative to what your team is lacking.

I would absolutely agree with you IF Anthony Black’s skillset made more sense next to Suggs/Franz/Paolo in a starting lineup. It doesn’t, as this has been explained a number of times.

Players do not randomly acquire skillsets, with huge leaps in development, year over year regardless of their age. Do they develop? Yes. Anthony Black isn’t breaking into the starting lineup for this reason. His skillset is duplicative of Paolo and Franz with the added bonus of switchable defense. No need to go over this again.

NOBODY WOULD HAVE THESE ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE OFFENSE IF THIS WASN'T THE CASE with Anthony Black.

Now, if everyone says “we need help on offense” and AB is absolutely not solving that issue, outside of development, then he is on the block. Simple as that. He is the highest valued asset to a team with limited assets looking to upgrade the exact position he supposedly plays. Not difficult to comprehend.

I’m not having conversations about Anthony Black anymore in the trade thread. People are just delusional propping this kid up to insane levels talking about how he’s relatively untouchable. He’s not. He’s not even relevant to Orlando’s offense and won’t be unless he takes enormous unprecedented leaps in skills yet to be seen.

I say this and I actually like AB as a prospect at face value.

AB's path to starting point guard hinges on becoming a respectable shooter (34%+ catch-and-shoot) and showing he can organize halfcourt offense without killing spacing. He already defends at a high level and fits Mosley’s switch-heavy scheme, but he needs to handle 2nd-side P&R and drive-and-kick with more urgency. All extremely likely developments.

If the front office agrees with me we might see them acquire a high IQ, low-usage, 38%+ from three veteran pointguard to mentor AB. Someone like Tyus, Morris, or Brogdon.

Brogdon is the expiring contract we went after at the trade deadline, so we might try to go after him this summer

to sit on our bench? he cannot get healthy

[Skybox]

Silky Simple Summer...

#1
ORL sends: KCP, ORL #25
POR sends: Anfernee Simons
Why: Professional defensive presence for their young backcourt for 2 years, they go all in NEXT summer with cap space and another lotto pick "earned"

#2
ORL sends: Goga, Cole Anthony, 3 srps
TOR sends: Poeltl
Why: TOR drafts Maluach and determines they're a year away from an all-in. Poeltl for Goga & expiring Cole is a cost-saving move, plus draft equity.

Exercise Options on CoJo and Houstan, Decline on M. Wagner and G. Harris, re-sign Wagner at 3yrs x $8m. Draft Maxime Raynaud from French Natl. Team by way of Stanford...an incredibly skilled, mature 7' with a mentality and support system that sounds like Wemby (diet, yoga, mentality, sleep, etc)

Poeltl, WCJ, Raynaud (Moe)
Paolo, WCJ, Isaac (Moe)
Franz, Isaac, Houstan
Suggs, AB, TdS
Simons, AB, CoJo

*We could use another guard...we could re-sign Gary for something more like $3m, or Queen for even less. If we're feeling frisky and these make the MLE available to us (and he slips through the cracks), we could consider DLo (or Schroder who will likely stay in DET or get paid more than we should). DLO is immensely talented and immensely disappointing, but at this stage of his career, I don't think he's a potential locker room issue (like a KPJ could be), so it might be a nice bet...he could emerge as 6MOY if deployed correctly and he embraces the winning role.

Lots of positional versatility. I think Raynaud may be the steal of the draft and, maybe, eventual starter (or, maybe it's Wolf). TdS and Houstan deserve minutes and shots. I'm counting on a slimmed down Isaac to revert to his ball-hawking, help-everywhere defensive presence to offset some of the lesser defenders bringing offense. Mose is a strict man to man D guy, but he'll make it a little more sophisticated to give more help from his guys like Isaac, AB, and Suggs. Much improved rebounding, interior ball movement, and perimeter shooting. Simons, even if limited by a pedestrian offensive scheme, is ALWAYS a looming threat to would-be double-teamers trying to cheat down on Paolo and Franz.

[Skybox]

This is merely weighing and judging developmental skillsets relative to what your team is lacking.

I would absolutely agree with you IF Anthony Black’s skillset made more sense next to Suggs/Franz/Paolo in a starting lineup. It doesn’t, as this has been explained a number of times.

Players do not randomly acquire skillsets, with huge leaps in development, year over year regardless of their age. Do they develop? Yes. Anthony Black isn’t breaking into the starting lineup for this reason. His skillset is duplicative of Paolo and Franz with the added bonus of switchable defense. No need to go over this again.

NOBODY WOULD HAVE THESE ARGUMENTS ABOUT THE OFFENSE IF THIS WASN'T THE CASE with Anthony Black.

Now, if everyone says “we need help on offense” and AB is absolutely not solving that issue, outside of development, then he is on the block. Simple as that. He is the highest valued asset to a team with limited assets looking to upgrade the exact position he supposedly plays. Not difficult to comprehend.

I’m not having conversations about Anthony Black anymore in the trade thread. People are just delusional propping this kid up to insane levels talking about how he’s relatively untouchable. He’s not. He’s not even relevant to Orlando’s offense and won’t be unless he takes enormous unprecedented leaps in skills yet to be seen.

I say this and I actually like AB as a prospect at face value.

AB's path to starting point guard hinges on becoming a respectable shooter (34%+ catch-and-shoot) and showing he can organize halfcourt offense without killing spacing. He already defends at a high level and fits Mosley’s switch-heavy scheme, but he needs to handle 2nd-side P&R and drive-and-kick with more urgency. All extremely likely developments.

If the front office agrees with me we might see them acquire a high IQ, low-usage, 38%+ from three veteran pointguard to mentor AB. Someone like Tyus, Morris, or Brogdon.

Brogdon is the expiring contract we went after at the trade deadline, so we might try to go after him this summer

I don't think I ever heard that ORL did...Brogdon must be toast or WAS would have moved him rather than just expire, even if just for srps. If he could play, I think he would have been on a playoff team at the TD...a healthy Brogdon is better than the usual names we throw around...but I don't think a healthy Brogdon still exists.

[basketballRob]

AB's path to starting point guard hinges on becoming a respectable shooter (34%+ catch-and-shoot) and showing he can organize halfcourt offense without killing spacing. He already defends at a high level and fits Mosley’s switch-heavy scheme, but he needs to handle 2nd-side P&R and drive-and-kick with more urgency. All extremely likely developments.

If the front office agrees with me we might see them acquire a high IQ, low-usage, 38%+ from three veteran pointguard to mentor AB. Someone like Tyus, Morris, or Brogdon.

Brogdon is the expiring contract we went after at the trade deadline, so we might try to go after him this summer

I don't think I ever heard that ORL did...Brogdon must be toast or WAS would have moved him rather than just expire, even if just for srps. If he could play, I think he would have been on a playoff team at the TD...a healthy Brogdon is better than the usual names we throw around...but I don't think a healthy Brogdon still exists.

Maybe we could get Brogdon cheap in a sign and trade.

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[drsd]

Kevin Porter Jr.

Discuss.

Averages 54 games played per season over a 5-year career.

[BadMofoPimp]

Every fan wants to think their team is win-now...for ORL, we just heard it from the GM's mouth.

I'm assuming POR wants one more crack at the lottery before "flicking the switch". Ayton, Time Lord, Thybulle, etc expire next summer and young guns are up for extensions. If that's accurate, expirings are definitely a reasonable thing for them. Obviously, Simons is expiring too and if some team offered them some exciting young player that would be (maybe) preferable...I know JRoy doesn't want KCP for their young backcourt sissies to learn some toughness and professionalism from - but I'd be interested if he has any insights as to the general vibe coming from the POR FO as far as timeline for jumping in. They looked good as the year went on, but I still am assuming they're a year away from being a year away.

JRoy?

I agree with the notion of your post. But as to Caldwell-Pope in Blazer-land, there is a salary floor Portland must get to. THe team will easily got to the floor this year, but as you note with all the expirings, Portland needs to pick up at least 120M of new salary for the 2026/27 season .
Tanking teams need overpriced, underperforming players. In many ways Caldwell-Pope perfectly fits the expensive, on-floor coach role a tanking team needs from a vet.

Look at the 2021/22 Magic as an example. Orlando paid Harris 21M; he went 11/2/2 on that salary. The Magic paid Isaac 17.4M to not play. Fultz 16.5M for 11/5/3. And Ross 12.5M for 10/2/2.

Wow does Caldwell-Pope line up well here. He's got 2-more years on 21.5M a year. That is perfect for a Utah/Washington/Portland roster as one piece of a trade deal.

Solid synapsis but still doesn't justify trading youth for aging players. I bet a 3rd team would have to be involved for KCP to go to.

[Knightro]

Technically yes, the Magic could trade guys like Harris and M. Wagner the day the season ends for a team looking for immediate cap space, but given their own impending tax issues, it feels more likely they’ll just decline both options to get under the tax and give themselves a lot more wiggle room in terms of adding salary for next season via trade.

[Skybox]

Kevin Porter Jr.

Discuss.

Averages 54 games played per season over a 5-year career.

Injuries or suspensions?