Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XXVI: Offseason Edition)

[thelead]

Since when did the Orlando Magic become so associated being screw ups that you start to assume they're going to get things wrong?

Since letting Shaq walk
Since trading Mike Miller
Since hiring a hockey GM
Since trading T-Mac
Since trading Mobley for Doug Christie
Since hiring coaches Brian Hill, Johnny Davis, Chris Jent, and Brian Hill again
Since signing Rashard Lewis to a max deal
Since drafting Reece Gaines, Jerry Sasser, and Fran Vazquez
Since signing Chris Duhon
Since trading Vince Carter, Marcin Gortat, and MP for J-Rich, Hedo, and Earl Clark
Since the VP drunk dials Dwight Howard
Since the head coach airs out all of the dirty laundry

And a 1st rd pick

And $3,000,000...

[Nemesis21]

^^^^^ Phx raped Otis in that deal. They probably asked Otis if he was high, when he called. Then they laughed and accepted the trade quickly.

[D12VCMagic]

what if they take there time and get it wrong? i mean we are the Orlandooooooo Magic!!!

Since when did the Orlando Magic become so associated being screw ups that you start to assume they're going to get things wrong?

Since letting Shaq walk
Since trading Mike Miller
Since hiring a hockey GM
Since trading T-Mac
Since trading Mobley for Doug Christie
Since hiring coaches Brian Hill, Johnny Davis, Chris Jent, and Brian Hill again
Since signing Rashard Lewis to a max deal
Since drafting Reece Gaines, Jerry Sasser, and Fran Vazquez
Since signing Chris Duhon
Since trading Vince Carter, Marcin Gortat, and MP for J-Rich, Hedo, and Earl Clark
Since the VP drunk dials Dwight Howard

Stan and Doc were the lone good coaches we hired in the franchise's history and we've never had a very competent front office. We've had 4 great players walk thru Orlando and 3 left because the front office blows and 1 more on the way. There's a reason you don't see any jerseys retired in Orlando. Just a lack of competence in the front office and a lack of apathy from ownership. However, I think Dwight has finally woken ownership up this past year.
Since the head coach airs out all of the dirty laundry

I agree except with Stan and Doc being the only good coaches we've hired, you're forgetting Chuck Daly.

[thelead]

^^^^^ Phx ***** Otis in that deal. They probably asked Otis if he was high, when he called. Then they laughed and accepted the trade quickly.

Otis was desperate, knew his team was on the decline and decided to take the team with him on his sinking ship. And the ownership allowed it and let him keep his job for a full year and a half after that deal.

[Nemesis21]

^^^^^ Phx ***** Otis in that deal. They probably asked Otis if he was high, when he called. Then they laughed and accepted the trade quickly.

Otis was desperate, knew his team was on the decline and decided to take the team with him on his sinking ship. And the ownership allowed it and let him keep his job for a full year and a half after that deal.

Had he waited two more weeks, Deron would probably be in Orlando.

[magicman123]

lets not forget we paid gilbert arenas $60mil just to disappear...

[Nemesis21]

lets not forget we paid gilbert arenas $60mil just to disappear...

Don't remind us.

[Def Swami]

Since when did the Orlando Magic become so associated being screw ups that you start to assume they're going to get things wrong?

Since letting Shaq walk
Since trading Mike Miller
Since hiring a hockey GM
Since trading T-Mac
Since trading Mobley for Doug Christie
Since hiring coaches Brian Hill, Johnny Davis, Chris Jent, and Brian Hill again
Since signing Rashard Lewis to a max deal
Since drafting Reece Gaines, Jerry Sasser, and Fran Vazquez
Since signing Chris Duhon
Since trading Vince Carter, Marcin Gortat, and MP for J-Rich, Hedo, and Earl Clark
Since the VP drunk dials Dwight Howard
Since the head coach airs out all of the dirty laundr

Stan and Doc were the lone good coaches we hired in the franchise's history and we've never had a very competent front office. We've had 4 great players walk thru Orlando and 3 left because the front office blows and 1 more on the way. There's a reason you don't see any jerseys retired in Orlando. Just a lack of competence in the front office and a lack of apathy from ownership. However, I think Dwight has finally woken ownership up this past year.

I agree except with Stan and Doc being the only good coaches we've hired, you're forgetting Chuck Daly.

Good call.

[Def Swami]

If history repeats, you can add "Since hiring Jeff Bower."

[pogiro]

what if they take there time and get it wrong? i mean we are the Orlandooooooo Magic!!!

Since when did the Orlando Magic become so associated being screw ups that you start to assume they're going to get things wrong?

Since letting Shaq walk
Since trading Mike Miller
Since hiring a hockey GM
Since trading T-Mac
Since trading Mobley for Doug Christie
Since hiring coaches Brian Hill, Johnny Davis, Chris Jent, and Brian Hill again
Since signing Rashard Lewis to a max deal
Since drafting Reece Gaines, Jerry Sasser, and Fran Vazquez
Since signing Chris Duhon
Since trading Vince Carter, Marcin Gortat, and MP for J-Rich, Hedo, and Earl Clark
Since the VP drunk dials Dwight Howard
Since the head coach airs out all of the dirty laundry

Stan and Doc were the lone good coaches we hired in the franchise's history and we've never had a very competent front office. We've had 4 great players walk thru Orlando and 3 left because the front office blows and 1 more on the way. There's a reason you don't see any jerseys retired in Orlando. Just a lack of competence in the front office and a lack of apathy from ownership. However, I think Dwight has finally woken ownership up this past year.

And that sets us apart from the other NBA franchises how? This franchise has one of the more prouder histories IMO. Anyone can harp on the negatives and think they're franchise is crap. The Orlando Magic should not be seen like that. That mentality should be reserved for Minnesota, Washington, Milwaukee, and the Nets who traded the #6 overall pick for a couple months of Gerald Wallace, which trumps about any mishap the Magic ever made.

[magicman123]

billy donovan, otis smith, brian cook, and the tragedy of letting travis diener walk

[Nemesis21]

billy donovan, otis smith, brian cook, and the tragedy of letting travis diener walk

Trading Ariza for Mo Evans and Brain Cook.

[Def Swami]

Since when did the Orlando Magic become so associated being screw ups that you start to assume they're going to get things wrong?

Since letting Shaq walk
Since trading Mike Miller
Since hiring a hockey GM
Since trading T-Mac
Since trading Mobley for Doug Christie
Since hiring coaches Brian Hill, Johnny Davis, Chris Jent, and Brian Hill again
Since signing Rashard Lewis to a max deal
Since drafting Reece Gaines, Jerry Sasser, and Fran Vazquez
Since signing Chris Duhon
Since trading Vince Carter, Marcin Gortat, and MP for J-Rich, Hedo, and Earl Clark
Since the VP drunk dials Dwight Howard
Since the head coach airs out all of the dirty laundry

Stan and Doc were the lone good coaches we hired in the franchise's history and we've never had a very competent front office. We've had 4 great players walk thru Orlando and 3 left because the front office blows and 1 more on the way. There's a reason you don't see any jerseys retired in Orlando. Just a lack of competence in the front office and a lack of apathy from ownership. However, I think Dwight has finally woken ownership up this past year.

And that sets us apart from the other NBA franchises how? This franchise has one of the more prouder histories IMO. Anyone can harp on the negatives and think they're franchise is crap. The Orlando Magic should not be seen like that. That mentality should be reserved for Minnesota, Washington, Milwaukee, and the Nets who traded the #6 overall pick for a couple months of Gerald Wallace, which trumps about any mishap the Magic ever made.

The Magic have been extremely fortunate in being able to land 2 of the most dominant big men of their era. Most of those teams (Minny, MIL, WAS, BRK, GSW, TOR, NOH) have not been as fortunate. Most franchises hardly touch the talent we've been able to land, but we've always squandered it. They didn't pay Shaq, they didn't build around T-Mac, and they killed a Finals team with Dwight. There's a reason we lost Shaq, and about to lose Dwight. I agree, but those franchises suffer from the same problems that we do. Unwise management and clueless owners. We may not be as bad as those bottom feeding organizations, but we're also nowhere near franchises like the Bulls, Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, or even the Heat, which is what franchise players are looking for. There's a lack of a championship culture in ORL and that has to change.

I think Dwight looks at the history of this franchise and doesn't like the direction it's going. Back to back first round exits and a roster that would be a lottery team if it didn't have Dwight. It screams of a 21 win season with a disgruntled all-star waiting to happen. Fortunately, I believe everything with Dwight has finally caught ownership's attention and depending on these hires at GM and coach will display whether they're serious about building a contenders or continuing down the same path.

Also, we've had blunders that mirror the Nets trading a lottery pick for Gerald Wallace. We've made plenty of moves that are just ridiculous and that's the difference between bad teams, mediocre teams, good teams, and great teams.

[glennathan]

billy donovan, otis smith, brian cook, and the tragedy of letting travis diener walk

Trading Ariza for Mo Evans and Brain Cook.

Let's not forget the move of a 1st round pick and Cato for Darko and Carlos Arroyo

[cb1115]

This thread has become such a downer.

WE NEEDZ MOAR NEWZ!1!!!!1!

[pogiro]

The Magic have been extremely fortunate in being able to land 2 of the most dominant big men of their era. Most of those teams (Minny, MIL, WAS, BRK, GSW, TOR, NOH) have not been as fortunate. Most franchises hardly touch the talent we've been able to land, but we've always squandered it. They didn't pay Shaq, they didn't build around T-Mac, and they killed a Finals team with Dwight. There's a reason we lost Shaq, and about to lose Dwight. I agree, but those franchises suffer from the same problems that we do. Unwise management and clueless owners. We may not be as bad as those bottom feeding organizations, but we're also nowhere near franchises like the Bulls, Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, or even the Heat, which is what franchise players are looking for. There's a lack of a championship culture in ORL and that has to change.

Also, we've had blunders that mirror the Nets trading a lottery pick for Gerald Wallace. We've made plenty of moves that are just ridiculous and that's the difference between bad teams, mediocre teams, good teams, and great teams.

You say the Magic have been fortunate to have the talent that we've had. You don't think it's because of the Magic that we've had that much talent come through this organization.

And dismantling the Finals team? What were we supposed to do? Give Hedo the money he got? You see how bad his contract is, how badly it affects our ability to improve, and how much he fell off. I don't get how anybody can argue that letting him go in the first place was a bad move.

No, we have not had blunders that mirror that Nets trade. Name one. They intentionally traded their pick knowing they were having a **** season, and knowing Gerald Wallace could opt out.

And they didn't build around T-Mac because they couldn't Grant Hill was taking up all the cap. Unless you were someone who was against the signing, I don't think you can really complain here.

You listed signing Rashard Lewis to a max deal. You do realize the Magic made it to the Finals with him don't you?

We've had bad drafts, but who hasn't? We've made bad trades but who hasn't? You know what we didn't do? Draft Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant. Draft Darko Milicic instead of Dwyane Wade, Melo, Bosh, hell, even Chris Kaman.

And we haven't lost Dwight yet. People were so sure he was going to be gone by the trade deadline. And despite the fact he's still here, despite the fact that he waived his ETO to stay here, despite the fact that if he used his ETO he would complete control of his destiny, people still insist that they know Dwight is gone. Dwight's still here. That should be credit enough to the Magic. Or would you rather Dwight be Emeka Okafor. Or would you have rather had the Magic trade Dwight for Lopez and Wallace back in January-February. That trade would fit the mold of what some of you have of the Magic. But heyyyyyy, looky there, the trade was shut down.

Let me remind everyone, we almost lost this franchise before Dwight came around. And now we have a nice, new, shiny arena.

Get over this "woe, is me" crap. The Magic is a good franchise.

[thelead]

That Magic are fortunate to have had the picks they have received. If you don't see how 3 number 1 picks in 12 years has positively effected this franchise, you're blind or a homer. The magic would be in Kansas City or OKC if it weren't for a few ping pong balls, not the Devos'.

[pogiro]

That Magic are fortunate to have had the picks they have received. If you don't see how 3 number 1 picks in 10 years has positively effected this franchise, you're blind or a homer. The magic would be in Kansas City or OKC if it weren't for a few ping pong balls, not the Devos'.

I see that. I'm not saying we haven't been fortunate. But people here are acting as if all the success is a result of coincidences and fortunate events and the Magic brass are a bunch of bumbling idiots. Top picks don't automatically lead to success. But fact of the matter is, we had those draft picks, and with those picks came a lot of success. I don't really care if the talent that has gone through Orlando is a result of fortune or design, but it's been a good franchise to be a fan of. If that makes me a homer, I really could not care less. It's one thing to be critical, but you guys are hardly giving any credit to the good moves this franchise has made.

What I have an issue with is people assuming the Magic will screw up whatever decision we come across as if they've made a habit of making dumb decisions. I may be a homer, but I'd rather be a homer than be a disgruntled fan reaching for "mistakes" such as trading Cuttino Mobley and trading Mike Miller (which nabbed a pretty nice duo in Gordan Giricek and Drew Gooden) as reasons to not have faith in the Magic.

[Def Swami]

The Magic have been extremely fortunate in being able to land 2 of the most dominant big men of their era. Most of those teams (Minny, MIL, WAS, BRK, GSW, TOR, NOH) have not been as fortunate. Most franchises hardly touch the talent we've been able to land, but we've always squandered it. They didn't pay Shaq, they didn't build around T-Mac, and they killed a Finals team with Dwight. There's a reason we lost Shaq, and about to lose Dwight. I agree, but those franchises suffer from the same problems that we do. Unwise management and clueless owners. We may not be as bad as those bottom feeding organizations, but we're also nowhere near franchises like the Bulls, Celtics, Lakers, Spurs, Mavs, or even the Heat, which is what franchise players are looking for. There's a lack of a championship culture in ORL and that has to change.

Also, we've had blunders that mirror the Nets trading a lottery pick for Gerald Wallace. We've made plenty of moves that are just ridiculous and that's the difference between bad teams, mediocre teams, good teams, and great teams.

You say the Magic have been fortunate to have the talent that we've had. You don't think it's because of the Magic that we've had that much talent come through this organization.

And dismantling the Finals team? What were we supposed to do? Give Hedo the money he got? You see how bad his contract is, how badly it affects our ability to improve, and how much he fell off. I don't get how anybody can argue that letting him go in the first place was a bad move.

No, we have not had blunders that mirror that Nets trade. Name one. They intentionally traded their pick knowing they were having a **** season, and knowing Gerald Wallace could opt out.

And they didn't build around T-Mac because they couldn't Grant Hill was taking up all the cap. Unless you were someone who was against the signing, I don't think you can really complain here.

You listed signing Rashard Lewis to a max deal. You do realize the Magic made it to the Finals with him don't you?

We've had bad drafts, but who hasn't? We've made bad trades but who hasn't? You know what we didn't do? Draft Greg Oden instead of Kevin Durant. Draft Darko Milicic instead of Dwyane Wade, Melo, Bosh, hell, even Chris Kaman.

And we haven't lost Dwight yet. People were so sure he was going to be gone by the trade deadline. And despite the fact he's still here, despite the fact that he waived his ETO to stay here, despite the fact that if he used his ETO he would complete control of his destiny, people still insist that they know Dwight is gone. Dwight's still here. That should be credit enough to the Magic. Or would you rather Dwight be Emeka Okafor. Or would you have rather had the Magic trade Dwight for Lopez and Wallace back in January-February. That trade would fit the mold of what some of you have of the Magic. But heyyyyyy, looky there, the trade was shut down.

Let me remind everyone, we almost lost this franchise before Dwight came around. And now we have a nice, new, shiny arena.

Get over this "woe, is me" crap. The Magic is a good franchise.

We've been a "good" to "average" franchise that has underachieved. When you have 2 of the most dominant big men of their respective eras and don't come away with a single title, there is a problem.

If you trade for Hedo back after not signing him after the Finals, what difference does it make? I'd much rather have kept that Finals team together than have done all of the ridiculous trades that followed it.

Even with GHill's contract, the Magic never was able to put together a quality team that could even crack a 7-8 seed in the East which is inexcusable. They ruined a good thing by trading a Rookie of the Year in Mike Miller for Giricek and Gooden. It was pathetic how content the team was with Garrity, Juwan Howard, Tyrone Lue, Andrew Declerq, Shawn Kemp, and Patrick Ewing, and DeShawn Stevenson being the best guys we could surround T-Mac with.

When your GM justifies trades like this:

Weisbrod added that it would be better for team chemistry to split up Mobley and Francis, who played together for five seasons in Houston.

the front office has issues and doesn't understand ball.

Justify giving Rashard Lewis a max deal. Please. I'm interested in your response. I get they made the Finals, but in no way did the Magic have to give Lewis a max deal to acquire him. The lack of production for the dollar Lewis was worth killed the team in the long run and continued to haunt us until we were blessed with an amnesty which we could cut Arenas with.

And again, many teams make bad draft picks. But does that mean we're settling for mediocrity? C'mon, great organizations know how to draft and invest in scouting. How does a team draft players they've never interviewed, scouted, or worked out for 2 consecutive years? That's just a lack of competence.

I give no credit to the Magic for retaining Dwight for an extra year. Dwight didn't have to do that and the Magic gave him no reason to do it. He did it out of his sheer love for the city and hopes that ORL can build a contender, but we've yet to see it. And as far as I can see for now, they haven't given him a reason to sign an extension.

With limited cap space, limited trade assets, and if they screw up the hires, Dwight will walk the same path as Shaq and T-Mac. I'm holding out hope that the Magic can make moves, but history does not give me a reason to believe so.

[Def Swami]

That Magic are fortunate to have had the picks they have received. If you don't see how 3 number 1 picks in 10 years has positively effected this franchise, you're blind or a homer. The magic would be in Kansas City or OKC if it weren't for a few ping pong balls, not the Devos'.

I see that. I'm not saying we haven't been fortunate. But people here are acting as if all the success is a result of coincidences and fortunate events and the Magic brass are a bunch of bumbling idiots. Top picks don't automatically lead to success. But fact of the matter is, we had those draft picks, and with those picks came a lot of success. I don't really care if the talent that has gone through Orlando is a result of fortune or design, but it's been a good franchise to be a fan of. If that makes me a homer, I really could not care less. It's one thing to be critical, but you guys are hardly giving any credit to the good moves this franchise has made.

What I have an issue with is people assuming the Magic will screw up whatever decision we come across as if they've made a habit of making dumb decisions. I may be a homer, but I'd rather be a homer than be a disgruntled fan reaching for "mistakes" such as trading Cuttino Mobley and trading Mike Miller (which nabbed a pretty nice duo in Gordan Giricek and Drew Gooden) as reasons to not have faith in the Magic.

No one is saying that "ALL of the success" is a result of coincidences and fortune. There have been good moves. But what separates the good from great franchises is that the great ones avoid the frequency of bad trades and bad draft picks. I'm justifying why I wouldn't be surprised to see the Magic to make a bad hire like Bower. I've seen the novice of the front office before, and I've seen the complacency with hiring people "in the family."

And it indeed has been a good franchise to be a fan of. Lots of great times. But there is a fundamental problem in the front office and ownership that has lingered. The Magic have been a good team. But great players like Dwight want to be part of a team with championship aspirations. If we want that, we have to have the right people in place to make the right decisions and to build a culture of a championship mentality, where winning is expected. The way a team drafts and scouts, and the character of the players and coaches that compose a team are a reflection of a team's commitment to winning, and through the history of the franchise, both have been suspect.