Official Speculation Thread ‘18-19’: XIX: Rise of the BIG

[Furinkazan]

How can somebody view himself as serious person and actually belive that Magic cap space will be some big significant factor in free agency in years where biggest markets in sports ( not just nba but overall ) will compete with them for same, limited, number of players?

I think it depends on what you consider being a "significant factor" in free agency.

I know I wasn't and I don't think anyone else is suggesting the Magic would be able to sign Kevin Durant or Kawhi Leonard. That's not realistic.

But with as much as 45M in cap space, the Magic unequivocally should be able to make significant upgrades to their roster both via free agency and via trade acquisition.

Why wouldn't the Magic be able to sign 2 above average free agents? Or sign one above average FA and acquire another above average player with their cap space?

Their money is green just like everyone else.

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/7/30/17616436/nba-free-agency-2019-list-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving

that's list of names.

Half of them will,as every year, be extended with new contract.
I mean, getting Rozier on some $18M contract , Alec Burke or JJ Redick isn't really game changing free agency.
Rozier is restricted btw.

Getting Danny Green and Beverley type players does not move needle.

Millsap wasnt a Durant level either and he dint want to come here anyway.But dont worry uncle Green and Biyombos of the world can be had for 15-17mil a year.

[Knightro]

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/7/30/17616436/nba-free-agency-2019-list-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving

that's list of names.

Half of them will, as every year, be extended with new contract.
I mean, getting Rozier on some $18M contract , Alec Burke or JJ Redick isn't really game changing free agency.
Rozier is restricted btw.

Getting Danny Green and Beverley type players does not move needle.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Rozier.

I think he would be a significant addition to the Magic and I say that knowing full well that guys before him have struggled once they were taken away from Stevens.

The Magic need a point guard and also need someone who can score and I think with starter minutes Rozier can fill both of those roles quite well.

Burks, Redick and Green would be definite upgrades over what the Magic have gotten from Simmons (and Ross if we're being honest) this year.

It's about upgrading the team. Plus you have the ability to absorb contracts via trade too.

[OrlChamps2030]

Lots of talk of Rozier, but anyone interested in DeAngelo Russell? Younger, better shooter, probably cheaper, and most likely a better fit too. He might not be a true lead guard but he shows a lot of natural scoring ability

[Skybox]

I think our best bet is to be proactive and not count on FA signing, even if it means trading for an about-to-be FA...It's a calculated risk, Kemba-I'd do, in hopes of his loyal nature and his relationship with Cliff and DJ factoring. Butler-no way, too volatile, almost guaranteed to leave....start praying for CHA or POR collapse, leading to a rethinking of current structures.

[Knightro]

Millsap wasnt a Durant level either and he dint want to come here anyway.But dont worry uncle Green and Biyombos of the world can be had for 15-17mil a year.

Millsap played the long game and won. I think he absolutely considered Orlando, but financially it made more sense for him to sign a shorter contract with the cap set to increase.

He could have signed 4/80 with Orlando, but opted for 3/60 from Atlanta. Got 20M AAV from both clubs.

Instead of making 20M in the 4th year of his Orlando contract, he signed a new deal for 30M AAV from Denver.

He gambled on himself increasing his value and it paid off.

[PennytoShaq]

https://www.sbnation.com/nba/2018/7/30/17616436/nba-free-agency-2019-list-kevin-durant-kyrie-irving

that's list of names.

Half of them will, as every year, be extended with new contract.
I mean, getting Rozier on some $18M contract , Alec Burke or JJ Redick isn't really game changing free agency.
Rozier is restricted btw.

Getting Danny Green and Beverley type players does not move needle.

We'll have to agree to disagree on Rozier.

I think he would be a significant addition to the Magic and I say that knowing full well that guys before him have struggled once they were taken away from Stevens.

The Magic need a point guard and also need someone who can score and I think with starter minutes Rozier can fill both of those roles quite well.

Burks, Redick and Green would be definite upgrades over what the Magic have gotten from Simmons (and Ross if we're being honest) this year.

It's about upgrading the team. Plus you have the ability to absorb contracts via trade too.

If the Magic get a top 5 pick, grab a wing who translates to the NBA and land a PG like Rozier in Free agency, the team will be in a much better place.

[Knightro]

I think our best bet is to be proactive and not count on FA signing, even if it means trading for an about-to-be FA...It's a calculated risk, Kemba-I'd do, in hopes of his loyal nature and his relationship with Cliff and DJ factoring. Butler-no way, too volatile, almost guaranteed to leave....start praying for CHA or POR collapse, leading to a rethinking of current structures.

I don't disagree with you. I would love for them to be proactive, but I don't see any of those teams moving those players unless they absolutely collapse which seems highly unlikely.

[Furinkazan]

Lots of talk of Rozier, but anyone interested in DeAngelo Russell? Younger, better shooter, probably cheaper, and most likely a better fit too. He might not be a true lead guard but he shows a lot of natural scoring ability

I dunno if just one game or its normal with him but I was watching last night and dude has Mario Hezonja handles.

[Knightro]

Lots of talk of Rozier, but anyone interested in DeAngelo Russell? Younger, better shooter, probably cheaper, and most likely a better fit too. He might not be a true lead guard but he shows a lot of natural scoring ability

Yes. Him too.

I am interested in anyone who is better than the guys we currently have.

Russell is only 22, younger than Gordon. He could continue to grow and develop with the rest of the core group of guys.

[PennytoShaq]

Because you don't just give away good players. And NBA coaches who come here and GMs all think Vuc and Fournier are good. Dj and the rest are not close to tradable unless the mozgov move excited you.

If Vucevic and Fournier were truly good, the Magic wouldn't have one of the worst winning percentages in the league over the last 5 years. And if they're truly good players, the Magic should have no problem trading them for a decent return that adds balance to the roster.

It's fine if they want to maximize their return on assets; I hope they do. They're also in an awkward space where they have to kickstart a rebuild finally hand the team over to the players they've invested the most in. It's a balancing act for them.

Not true at all. 2 good players in the NBA does not equal much at all. In fact, it basically would equal a terrible winning % unless you have great players around them. There is a big difference between good and great.

As said 1000x here. Fournier and Vuc would be good role players on good teams.

So no, it’s not easy to trade guys like that and get equal value back in return, which is why it has not happened.

[Optimus_Steel]

Ran the numbers as we stand today, only thing I didn't have was opponent ftr, but it didn't matter too much to the result.



I just want to know, now that our front office spent about 18 months revamping the inner workings of the organization, stuffing the Amway offices with analytic wizards and personal chefs, what good data do they have from this team?

Comparable most favorably to an expansion team the year before, Ouch indeed lol. Its insane but they keep getting worse every year so in a sense they are like an expansion team of spare parts.

[PennytoShaq]

Unfortunately, we need to be worse this year. It will benefit the team immensely. Everyone who wants to see guys traded and us get a top 5 pick will be happy.

The good thing about getting high ceiling project players like Bamba and Isaac and adding a skill player from the draft and trade/FA around them means the team should turn it around rather quickly. I expect next season to be much better for us. This year will be painful.

[Optimus_Steel]

How can somebody view himself as serious person and actually belive that Magic cap space will be some big significant factor in free agency in years where biggest markets in sports ( not just nba but overall ) will compete with them for same, limited, number of players?


Sitting on hands, doing nothing, keeping half of active roster from Hennigan era isn't really doing good job.
Ross, Vuc, Evan, DJ,Gordon ( probably best players ) are all from old era of other GM.
All other additoins that Hammon and Weltman made to this roster have been putrid.
Simmons shoots 28% from the field.
Mack is already gone.
Grant, Birscoe are not nba players.
Iwundu sucks
Frazier can't even take his place and that says a lot about him.
Martin ... ?!


So that only leaves them with two high lottery picks to talk about. One in 6 games looked bad in 5 , other in 33 games in nba looked good in two. Non of them have star level potential ( star being 22-30 ppg scorer that won't suck life out of offense ).

So we all hoop back at treadmill of regular season, suck for 52 of 82 games, just to "beat" other tankers in April and March to hurt draft stock and shoot ourselfs out of top 5 picks.
Sorry but massive losing isn't strategy. Just because league "awards" worst teams ( worst team in particular) it does not mean that you need to sit on hands, do nothing in free agency, do nothing with trades . And to make things worst they are not even good at losing. They are terrible when it comes to chasing worst record.

And this process of tanking for star, faling at get one, just to try next year with almost same roster has to stop at some point.

Look at worst teams from just 2 years ago (2016) and where they are now compared to Magic:
1) Philly , 10-72 record, today playoff team with two stars
2) Lakres, 17-65 , now have Ingram , Ball, Lebron, Kuzma
3) Nets, 21-61, now have Russell and Levrer WITHOUT SINGLE LOTTERY PICK IN LAST 8 YEARS
4) Wolves 29-53, now have 2 stars , not great with chemistry,still miles away from Magic
5) Pelicans- right now one of best teams on West
6) Knicks - Porzingis if nothing else
7) Kings- lol
8) Bucks - new front office ,new coach = wins
9)Nuggets - blazing hot start
10) Magic ----
11) Jazz - Donovan as allstar

The basketball equivalent of taking a knee or punting on 1st down every year is not very impressive at all. Its the easiest thing to do, to do nothing. They could have made moves and still ensured they lost a lot. It looks to me like they are putting all their eggs on getting the top pick in the draft, just like Hennigan, and how did that work out? The look on Weltman's face when they picked our name for pick #6 said it all, they don't seem to have much of a backup plan.

BTW, the local media has not pressed them on what they came up with from their "evaluation" year?

[YosemiteSam]

From ESPN - right now doesn't look like a great year to be tanking

NBA executives we've spoken with mostly call the race for No. 1 a four-player contest, with the drop-off to the next tier of prospects being relatively substantial. In addition to Barrett, Duke's Zion Williamson and Cam Reddish are also firmly in the mix, as well as North Carolina's Nassir Little, who only emerged this past spring during the high school all-star game circuit as a serious contender. NBA teams don't appear to be convinced or enamored with the star power of this group, saying privately that it remains to be seen whether any of these prospects project to be the best player on a NBA playoff-caliber team down the line.

The first eight players in ESPN's Top 100 stand between 6-foot-5 and 6-9, with seven of them classified as big guards, wings or combo forwards. Between Barrett, Little, Reddish, Johnson, Romeo Langford, Quentin Grimes and Sekou Doumbouya, the top 10 is littered with versatile, switchable prospects. And even the other three have new-age qualities. While a limited shooter, Williamson is a powerful, explosive small-ball 4/5 with an underrated handle and passing instincts. Although slight, Vanderbilt point guard Darius Garland is an explosive, ultra-skilled 6-3 PG in the Trae Young archetype. Then there's Bol -- a 7-3 beanpole with excellent fluidity, shot-blocking instincts and natural touch that extends to 3. Every team is looking for these skill sets.

[Knightro]

This year will be painful.

For many reasons

The game threads especially.

[PennytoShaq]

It’s not a great year to tank, but it is a great year for the Magic to fill a position of need with the BPA.

I do think Reddish/Langford/Barret are all intriguing as potential stars. This draft as a whole, is one of the weakest in a while though.

[YosemiteSam]

If they draft Bol I am officially done. They need to pick up a wing that can shoot in the draft regardless of wingspan

[Optimus_Steel]

It’s not a great year to tank, but it is a great year for the Magic to fill a position of need with the BPA.

I do think Reddish/Langford/Barret are all intriguing as potential stars. This draft as a whole, is one of the weakest in a while though.

Sounds like typical Magic timing lol.

[Optimus_Steel]

If they draft Bol I am officially done. They need to pick up a wing that can shoot in the draft regardless of wingspan

[PennytoShaq]

It’s not a great year to tank, but it is a great year for the Magic to fill a position of need with the BPA.

I do think Reddish/Langford/Barret are all intriguing as potential stars. This draft as a whole, is one of the weakest in a while though.

Sounds like typical Magic timing lol.

Yes, it is unfortunate, but the last terrible draft we ended up getting Oladipo, who many love here. Also, Giannis went in that draft, so maybe it is a good sign for us.

This is why I am very happy we got AG back on a tradable deal. I still think he and Vuc could be key pieces in a trade for us - if a major piece is available at the deadline.