2020 Offseason: Trade Ideas / Trade Talk

jonbob17 · Post #481 » by **jonbob17** » Thu Feb 4, 2021 10:09 pm

SpiderMunn wrote:
problem is he makes 29.5 this year, and 31.5 and 33.6 the following two. He is playing better lately though.

Oh he's still negative, just been playing like a 12-15M player the last couple years. So less negative right now.

Xatticus · Post #482 » by **Xatticus** » Fri Feb 5, 2021 6:53 pm

Spoiler:

Sign me up. I don't love Wiseman as a prospect, but eating Wiggins' contract is a small price to pay for getting him. I don't see any way that we get that caliber of prospect in return for those players. Of course, I'd expect to see Birch playing 36 minutes a night with Gary Clark and Aminu slotting in at center when he is off the floor. Wiseman and Bamba would have to fight for those final two garbage minutes when we are down by 20 in the fourth.

The1llness · Post #483 » by **The1llness** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 2:36 am

Think the Spurs would trade Aldridge’s expiring contract for Vucevic? I feel at this point cap relief is the best the Magic could do.

cedric76 · Post #484 » by **cedric76** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 7:29 am

The1llness wrote:Think the Spurs would trade Aldridge’s expiring contract for Vucevic? I feel at this point cap relief is the best the Magic could do.

drsd · Post #485 » by **drsd** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 10:16 am

cedric76 wrote:
The1llness wrote:Think the Spurs would trade Aldridge’s expiring contract for Vucevic? I feel at this point cap relief is the best the Magic could do.

Vučević is a top-4 Center in the NBA on a paltry contract, perhaps making him THE MOST VALUABLE Center in the NBA.
An expiring for Vučević is a non-starter for Magic management.

..

MoMM · Post #486 » by **MoMM** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 10:38 am

Xatticus wrote:
Spoiler:
drsd wrote:Thought-line story on a Warriors - Magic trade idea:
This Magic-Warriors trade gives Golden State a needed shakeup

Link: shake up after the first few weeks

The trade idea is:
Golden State Warriors Receive: Nikola Vucevic, Terrence Ross, Evan Fournier

Orlando Magic Receive: James Wiseman, Andrew Wiggins, Kelly Oubre Jr.

Orlando would be horrible with that trade, and would illustrate an intention to tank-out the season. But the result is the acquisition of a potential elite player in addition to the improved lottery odds that comes with this deal.

Short term Orlando is:
Anthony/Carter-Williams/Mason
Wiggins/Bacon/Mané
Gordon/Oubre/Ennis
Aminu/Okeke/Clark
Wiseman/Birch/Bamba

There is little to like about that roster except for the potential for "player development". As such, a package of Gordon and Aminu for more youth assets would allow the Magic to start three-rookies: Anthony, Okeke, Wiseman.

In conclusion: this is an interesting trade that is more than just-tanking. Moving forward the Magic would have an interesting set of players to try to reset with next season. Come late in the year, say February 2022, we could be looking at this sort of rotation:
Fultz/Anthony/Carter-Williams
Wiggins/rookie#1/Bacon
Oubre/rookie#2/vet
Isaac/Okeke/Clark
Wiseman/Bamba/vet

It is hard to write-off this trade idea.

..

Sign me up. I don't love Wiseman as a prospect, but eating Wiggins' contract is a small price to pay for getting him. I don't see any way that we get that caliber of prospect in return for those players. Of course, I'd expect to see Birch playing 36 minutes a night with Gary Clark and Aminu slotting in at center when he is off the floor. Wiseman and Bamba would have to fight for those final two garbage minutes when we are down by 20 in the fourth.

How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7393005

AG + Evan + Bamba for Wiseman + Wiggins.

Evan is a short gap until Klay is back next year, they get ride of Wiggins, add AG which makes sense for them and switch center prospects.

We get a way better prospect for Bamba+AG, tank a little bit, Evan will be gone next year anyway and unfortunately we pay Wiggins for some years, but we are bad in terms of salary cap, so no impact.

Perhaps we can ask for some picks too, theirs will be late 1st, so they are not THAT valuable. For example we can even ask for 2 1st and send 2 2nd, it will be a difference of 10 spots or something and for them it makes sense because they would be able to draft and stash in Europe.

Our lineup next year:
C: Vuc / Wiseman
PF: Isaac / Aminu
SF: TRoss / Okeke
SG: Wiggins / 2021 FRP
PG: Fultz / Cole

I like it

drsd · Post #487 » by **drsd** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 11:04 am

MoMM wrote:How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7393005

AG + Evan + Bamba for Wiseman + Wiggins.

Evan is a short gap until Klay is back next year, they get ride of Wiggins, add AG which makes sense for them and switch center prospects.

We get a way better prospect for Bamba+AG, tank a little bit, Evan will be gone next year anyway and unfortunately we pay Wiggins for some years, but we are bad in terms of salary cap, so no impact.

Perhaps we can ask for some picks too, theirs will be late 1st, so they are not THAT valuable. For example we can even ask for 2 1st and send 2 2nd, it will be a difference of 10 spots or something and for them it makes sense because they would be able to draft and stash in Europe.

Our lineup next year:
C: Vuc / Wiseman
PF: Isaac / Aminu
SF: TRoss / Okeke
SG: Wiggins / 2021 FRP
PG: Fultz / Cole

I like it

I love this trade for Orlando. But it does not help the Warriors in the post.

Skybox · Post #488 » by **Skybox** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 12:40 pm

MoMM wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
Spoiler:
drsd wrote:Thought-line story on a Warriors - Magic trade idea:

Link: shake up after the first few weeks

The trade idea is:

Orlando would be horrible with that trade, and would illustrate an intention to tank-out the season. But the result is the acquisition of a potential elite player in addition to the improved lottery odds that comes with this deal.

Short term Orlando is:
Anthony/Carter-Williams/Mason
Wiggins/Bacon/Mané
Gordon/Oubre/Ennis
Aminu/Okeke/Clark
Wiseman/Birch/Bamba

There is little to like about that roster except for the potential for "player development". As such, a package of Gordon and Aminu for more youth assets would allow the Magic to start three-rookies: Anthony, Okeke, Wiseman.

In conclusion: this is an interesting trade that is more than just-tanking. Moving forward the Magic would have an interesting set of players to try to reset with next season. Come late in the year, say February 2022, we could be looking at this sort of rotation:
Fultz/Anthony/Carter-Williams
Wiggins/rookie#1/Bacon
Oubre/rookie#2/vet
Isaac/Okeke/Clark
Wiseman/Bamba/vet

It is hard to write-off this trade idea.

..

Sign me up. I don't love Wiseman as a prospect, but eating Wiggins' contract is a small price to pay for getting him. I don't see any way that we get that caliber of prospect in return for those players. Of course, I'd expect to see Birch playing 36 minutes a night with Gary Clark and Aminu slotting in at center when he is off the floor. Wiseman and Bamba would have to fight for those final two garbage minutes when we are down by 20 in the fourth.

How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7393005

AG + Evan + Bamba for Wiseman + Wiggins.

Evan is a short gap until Klay is back next year, they get ride of Wiggins, add AG which makes sense for them and switch center prospects.

We get a way better prospect for Bamba+AG, tank a little bit, Evan will be gone next year anyway and unfortunately we pay Wiggins for some years, but we are bad in terms of salary cap, so no impact.

Perhaps we can ask for some picks too, theirs will be late 1st, so they are not THAT valuable. For example we can even ask for 2 1st and send 2 2nd, it will be a difference of 10 spots or something and for them it makes sense because they would be able to draft and stash in Europe.

Our lineup next year:
C: Vuc / Wiseman
PF: Isaac / Aminu
SF: TRoss / Okeke
SG: Wiggins / 2021 FRP
PG: Fultz / Cole

I like it

I’m good with the value but what are we doing with Wiseman? Another guy who can’t play with Vuc and who shouldn’t replace him. I really like the general framework of eating a couple of bad years of a guy like Wiggins to get a major young asset. We’re down for now anyway but why Wiseman? Pick or picks would be good...maybe GSW pick plus swap option for MIN pick. We get the better of two really good picks, but GSW still gets a solid lottery pick. If GSW really believe Evan and AG fill some playoff deficiencies (I would), makes sense for both due to timelines...I’d take Oubre too, if they want. Have to plug it into the checker

cedric76 · Post #489 » by **cedric76** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 1:25 pm

MoMM wrote:
Xatticus wrote:
Spoiler:
drsd wrote:Thought-line story on a Warriors - Magic trade idea:

Link: shake up after the first few weeks

The trade idea is:

Orlando would be horrible with that trade, and would illustrate an intention to tank-out the season. But the result is the acquisition of a potential elite player in addition to the improved lottery odds that comes with this deal.

Short term Orlando is:
Anthony/Carter-Williams/Mason
Wiggins/Bacon/Mané
Gordon/Oubre/Ennis
Aminu/Okeke/Clark
Wiseman/Birch/Bamba

There is little to like about that roster except for the potential for "player development". As such, a package of Gordon and Aminu for more youth assets would allow the Magic to start three-rookies: Anthony, Okeke, Wiseman.

In conclusion: this is an interesting trade that is more than just-tanking. Moving forward the Magic would have an interesting set of players to try to reset with next season. Come late in the year, say February 2022, we could be looking at this sort of rotation:
Fultz/Anthony/Carter-Williams
Wiggins/rookie#1/Bacon
Oubre/rookie#2/vet
Isaac/Okeke/Clark
Wiseman/Bamba/vet

It is hard to write-off this trade idea.

..

Sign me up. I don't love Wiseman as a prospect, but eating Wiggins' contract is a small price to pay for getting him. I don't see any way that we get that caliber of prospect in return for those players. Of course, I'd expect to see Birch playing 36 minutes a night with Gary Clark and Aminu slotting in at center when he is off the floor. Wiseman and Bamba would have to fight for those final two garbage minutes when we are down by 20 in the fourth.

How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7393005

AG + Evan + Bamba for Wiseman + Wiggins.

Evan is a short gap until Klay is back next year, they get ride of Wiggins, add AG which makes sense for them and switch center prospects.

We get a way better prospect for Bamba+AG, tank a little bit, Evan will be gone next year anyway and unfortunately we pay Wiggins for some years, but we are bad in terms of salary cap, so no impact.

Perhaps we can ask for some picks too, theirs will be late 1st, so they are not THAT valuable. For example we can even ask for 2 1st and send 2 2nd, it will be a difference of 10 spots or something and for them it makes sense because they would be able to draft and stash in Europe.

Our lineup next year:
C: Vuc / Wiseman
PF: Isaac / Aminu
SF: TRoss / Okeke
SG: Wiggins / 2021 FRP
PG: Fultz / Cole

I like it

Bad trade for both teams

Skybox · Post #490 » by **Skybox** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 2:27 pm

I don't like the trade but it inspired one I just posted on the general trade board...
ORL sends AG, Evan
GSW sends Wiggins, Oubre, '21 pick swap with MIN pick

I went into great boring analysis there, if anyone cares...but I think it works for both teams, long and short term. ORL takes risks but puts us in best position to make a splash, no guarantees...but THAT is what we need now- a BIG splash!

drsd · Post #491 » by **drsd** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 2:45 pm

Skybox wrote:I don't like the trade but it inspired one I just posted on the general trade board...
ORL sends AG, Evan
GSW sends Wiggins, Oubre, '21 pick swap with MIN pick

I went into great boring analysis there, if anyone cares...but I think it works for both teams, long and short term. ORL takes risks but puts us in best position to make a splash, no guarantees...but THAT is what we need now- a BIG splash!

I like this trade for Orlando. With Wiggins/Oubre in for Fournier/Gordon, the Magic is still a potential play-in level team. Orlando shuffles-the-deck-chairs with the Gordon/Oubre swap and uses its cap-room it would have gotten from Fournier to swallow Wiggins as a path to gain a potential top-5 pick. And if the Magic end up horrible, well, then the result could be swallowing Wiggins to get two top-8 picks and could end up with something special, like the #1 and #2. Having two lottery tickets such that one goes high is fairly probable under that scenario anyhow (something like a #3 and an #8 in the draft). Two starters should be drafted where one would statistically be an above average NBA starter.

Your trade sets the path for Orlando in the 2022/23 season to be a very good team.

..

Skybox · Post #492 » by **Skybox** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 2:50 pm

drsd wrote:
Skybox wrote:I don't like the trade but it inspired one I just posted on the general trade board...
ORL sends AG, Evan
GSW sends Wiggins, Oubre, '21 pick swap with MIN pick

I went into great boring analysis there, if anyone cares...but I think it works for both teams, long and short term. ORL takes risks but puts us in best position to make a splash, no guarantees...but THAT is what we need now- a BIG splash!

I like this trade for Orlando. With Wiggins/Oubre in for Fournier/Gordon, the Magic is still a potential play-in level team. Orlando shuffles-the-deck-chairs with the Gordon/Oubre swap and uses its cap-room it would have gotten from Fournier to swallow Wiggins as a path to gain a potential top-5 pick. And if the Magic end up horrible, well, then the result could be swallowing Wiggins to get two top-8 picks and could end up with something special, like the #1 and #2. Having two lottery tickets such that one goes high is fairly probable under that scenario anyhow (something like a #3 and an #8 in the draft). Two starters should be drafted where one would statistically be an above average NBA starter.

Your trade sets the path for Orlando in the 2022/23 season to be a very good team.

..

Thank you...I wish it were that good

I was suggesting paying for the right of a pick swap. We would have our pick OR the MIN pick only. Giving up the superior players/taking on Wiggins deal is the price of doubling our chances of one really high pick. The risk is real, MIN could get it going and we could too, making the pick swap less than top 3 or even 5 - but our odds are doubled. Gordon and Fournier are really not in the plans anyway, IMO, Oubre and Wiggins could be but doubling our shot at a really high pick is the focus.

The1llness · Post #493 » by **The1llness** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 7:25 pm

drsd wrote:
cedric76 wrote:
The1llness wrote:Think the Spurs would trade Aldridge’s expiring contract for Vucevic? I feel at this point cap relief is the best the Magic could do.

Vučević is a top-4 Center in the NBA on a paltry contract, perhaps making him THE MOST VALUABLE Center in the NBA.
An expiring for Vučević is a non-starter for Magic management.

..

I think you’re overrating his value IMO. 30 year old playing the least valuable position putting up gaudy numbers on a bad team year after year and $72 million over the next 3 years is anything but paltry. The market for him is extremely limited; playoff team without a center that has $20 million to offload.

yoyojw17 · Post #494 » by **yoyojw17** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 8:02 pm

The1llness wrote:
drsd wrote:
cedric76 wrote:

Vučević is a top-4 Center in the NBA on a paltry contract, perhaps making him THE MOST VALUABLE Center in the NBA.
An expiring for Vučević is a non-starter for Magic management.

..

I think you’re overrating his value IMO. 30 year old playing the least valuable position putting up gaudy numbers on a bad team year after year and $72 million over the next 3 years is anything but paltry. The market for him is extremely limited; playoff team without a center that has $20 million to offload.

To me... sounds like you're under-rating him. lol

30 is within the prime of your career.... and because vuc doesn't rely on speed and athletism.... he's good to go for for sure the rest of his contract.

Putting up gaudy numbers on a bad team also means that he is doing this with other teams game planning for him... and they still can't stop him. imagine if we were healthy or he was a 3rd option. lol... i'm sure it will be even easier.

and the discussion about least important position is crap. well not really crap... but it's because the league has hit a point where 3pnt and speed seems to be the thing...and guess what.... vuc is now at the apex of one of those... and is a great rebounder and passer.... which can facilitate a high powered offense.

He is 20pnt+ 10reb+ 4asst+ and 2 3pt +... and the only person in the league with such a stat line. so yes.... he better come at a nice penny.

and no one throw around defense... he's not as much liability as people say... because he does play good to great team defense.

We have something of true value and people trying to sell him for a penny on the dollar

MoMM · Post #495 » by **MoMM** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 9:10 pm

drsd wrote:
MoMM wrote:How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7393005

AG + Evan + Bamba for Wiseman + Wiggins.

Evan is a short gap until Klay is back next year, they get ride of Wiggins, add AG which makes sense for them and switch center prospects.

We get a way better prospect for Bamba+AG, tank a little bit, Evan will be gone next year anyway and unfortunately we pay Wiggins for some years, but we are bad in terms of salary cap, so no impact.

Perhaps we can ask for some picks too, theirs will be late 1st, so they are not THAT valuable. For example we can even ask for 2 1st and send 2 2nd, it will be a difference of 10 spots or something and for them it makes sense because they would be able to draft and stash in Europe.

Our lineup next year:
C: Vuc / Wiseman
PF: Isaac / Aminu
SF: TRoss / Okeke
SG: Wiggins / 2021 FRP
PG: Fultz / Cole

I like it

I love this trade for Orlando. But it does not help the Warriors in the post.

How about sending Birch to them as well? This way it opens PT for Wiseman.

My idea is to get Wiseman and have him grow behind Vuc and learn from him. He is WAY more talented that Bamba and 3 years younger, probably he would be ready by the end of Vuc's deal, so we could re-sign Vuc to be his backup or trade Vuc as an expiring if he is still able to play starter minutes. In my opinion Wiseman could become the next Embiid, so we would be set in terms of frontcourt (him and Isaac) and with our top pick this year we could get a game-changer wingman.

zaymon · Post #496 » by **zaymon** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 9:29 pm

From one unskilled, low iq center prospect to the other. I hope we learned something already.

drsd · Post #497 » by **drsd** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 9:31 pm

MoMM wrote:
MoMM wrote:How about this one?
https://basketball.realgm.com/tradechecker/saved_trade/7393005

AG + Evan + Bamba for Wiseman + Wiggins.

Evan is a short gap until Klay is back next year, they get ride of Wiggins, add AG which makes sense for them and switch center prospects.

We get a way better prospect for Bamba+AG, tank a little bit, Evan will be gone next year anyway and unfortunately we pay Wiggins for some years, but we are bad in terms of salary cap, so no impact.

Perhaps we can ask for some picks too, theirs will be late 1st, so they are not THAT valuable. For example we can even ask for 2 1st and send 2 2nd, it will be a difference of 10 spots or something and for them it makes sense because they would be able to draft and stash in Europe.

Our lineup next year:
C: Vuc / Wiseman
PF: Isaac / Aminu
SF: TRoss / Okeke
SG: Wiggins / 2021 FRP
PG: Fultz / Cole

I like it

How about sending Birch to them as well? This way it opens PT for Wiseman.

My idea is to get Wiseman and have him grow behind Vuc and learn from him. He is WAY more talented that Bamba and 3 years younger, probably he would be ready by the end of Vuc's deal, so we could re-sign Vuc to be his backup or trade Vuc as an expiring if he is still able to play starter minutes. In my opinion Wiseman could become the next Embiid, so we would be set in terms of frontcourt (him and Isaac) and with our top pick this year we could get a game-changer wingman.

I added Mychal Mulder to balance out your idea of Gordon, Fournier, Bamba, and now Birch for Wiseman and Wiggins.

Orlando would (eventually) become this year:
Anthony/Carter-Williams/Mason
Bacon/Ross/Mané
Wiggins/Ennis/Mulder
Aminu/Okeke/Clark
Vučević/Wiseman

That roster would need some small-ball rotations. But, why not? It would need to a nice rotation come next year, which I can get behind. And for the pro-tankers, this team would SUCK this year.

..

Skybox · Post #498 » by **Skybox** » Sat Feb 6, 2021 10:29 pm

yoyojw17 wrote:
The1llness wrote:
drsd wrote:and the discussion about least important position is crap. well not really crap...

Yes...really crap. OK to say it.

Ridiculous in a sport where there's 5 guys on the court to say one position/guy is less relevant. As you said...if there is ONE thing that makes a player outdated and marginalized against another in today's game- it's 3 point shooting. If there is one thing you just can't overrule, it's that 3 points is a lot more than 2, so a real lack of it is death to a team (or player vs player). Vuc is now at an elite level at that skill at a high volume...then, if you find a way to prevent it or focus on the perimeter - he will punish you 80's style on the inside like McHale and force you to move guys around to swipe at the ball and otherwise try to annoy the giant ballerina. He's just a nearly complete offensive force when you consider he's a willing passer...Imagine if he had one just one REALLY good teammate to work with. He's got role players that are capable of good play, but no real "we need to plan for him" level threats. IF they sacked up and threw a pile of stuff at WAS to get Beal, I really think they'd be onto something special. There are others on that "just below superstar, just above really good" level, but Beal may be gettable...I've been hoping for CJ for years and still would, but he's getting older and racked up a few injuries that I don't like (back)...but an elite PnR partner for Vuc would be great.

basketballRob · Post #499 » by **basketballRob** » Sun Feb 7, 2021 4:45 pm

Read on Twitter

?s=19

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Bakomagic · Post #500 » by **Bakomagic** » Sun Feb 7, 2021 5:21 pm

basketballRob wrote:

Read on Twitter
?s=19

Sent from my SM-G950U using RealGM mobile app

Iirc this source has been very unreliable in the past.

This is the type of move that scares me, it would put us in position to battle late in the season for a 7, 8 seed before getting demolished in the first round.

Plus, what do we even give up ? Draft picks ? (Stupid), young prospects (stupid) and if we give up one of our veteran contributors (AG, Fournier,Tross) it would just create another hole at another position putting us pretty much where we are already at.

Also, moving forward does this mean less playing time for Fultz and or Cole ? I don’t see the benefit here. Let the Knicks have Rose and propel them well ahead of us in the standings.