Official 2021 NBA Draft Thread Part 2

[fateis007]

We struggled to score all season, they will go the best scorers available IMO

[VFX]

"Tbh SG is by far least impacful nba positions there is "

uh,, ever hear of a guy named Michael Jordan?

you gotta add Kobe as well. lol but i think he means in this new era of the NBA

Kobe played most of his career in era before 3 point barage.

Nowdays best SGs are Mitchell, Lavine, Booker, SGA, Beal... Almost all belong in same "high usage, no playoff sucess" category other than Klay Thompson, who is 6'7 and could also play SF if needed.

I get the sentiment...

In terms of positional value it’s basically:

SF
Big drop off
PG
Drop off
SG
Huge drop off
PF
Drop off
C

There are few examples in the league that are successful teams led by PF’s, and C’s. They are anomalies in a league of exceptions. (Durant, Giannis, AD, Jokic, maybe Embiid) that’s where the list ends...

Most starters in those categories are complimentary players if you are discussing the probability one becomes an elite “go-to” guy. James Harden could be labeled anything, he’s still going to have 25ppg and 10apg.

So yeah, at the end of the day when you are talking about anything other than Bigs it comes down to skill set. If you are talking about a “wing” or a “non-point guard” that can’t handle the ball, facilitate an offense, or be able to take over games with otherworldly shooting ability, then you should probably look elsewhere because chances are high they aren’t a primary option.

TLDR; if I’m using this logic I’m looking at Cade, Suggs, and to a lesser extent Green... Which is exactly why those players are listed in that order near the top of the draft by most major scouting services and media. Anyone else in the top 5 seems either complimentary or riskier because of the questions that surround their skill set or positional value.

[BDill012]

He looks really limited to me. He isn't a PG. He has below average tools for a two. He isn't explosive. He doesn't get to the rim. He doesn't finish well. He has really low steal and block rates. His rebound rate is low. I just don't see what he does well aside from shooting, but even his shooting profile isn't anything special. He doesn't get to the FT line. He'll probably be alright at catch-and-shoots, but that's about all I'd expect from him as a shooter. I don't think he has much upside at the defensive end. I think there has to be more appealing prospects available. I think it's unlikely he gets drafted.

For me Washington's upside is as a bench guard playing solely as a catch and shoot 3rd ball gunslinger. That is, his highest possible upside is as Steve Kerr. But, that level of shooting competence must have a role in the NBA.

If the Magic is going to draft a shooter, there might not be a better player in this draft. But that is probably the ONLY NBA skill he has.
..

I have watched every game he has played at Ohio State. He seems to have low BBiQ, is a below average defender, below average ball handler, and does not finish well around the basket.

He likes the ball in his hand and likes to shoot off the dribble more than catch and shoot. I haven't looked up his numbers comparing the two, but from a feel stand point, I feel like he doesn't shoot as well as you would expect catching and shooting. I would not be high on him as a draft pick for the Magic.

I believe he intends to return to school from what I have heard from people at Ohio State. Just my take having seen him play a lot.

[BDill012]

Moody’s shooting profile isn’t anywhere near what Redick’s was. Nobody in this class is Redick. The only one I’d have as being somewhat close is Hyland. There are 3 predictors for 3-point ability: FT%, 3PAr, and 3P%.

I want to point out that Moody’s numbers are inflated because he played a lot of minutes. He had a decent rebound rate and a good free throw rate. His numbers are otherwise rather pedestrian. I think people are seeing something more in him because his per game numbers are better than the other wing prospects in his tier, but that’s all about his minutes. He really isn’t all that appealing unless you believe his shooting is vastly superior to what he demonstrated this year.

What are your thoughts on Duane Washington Jr.? If he stays in the draft, is he worth the Magic's SRP?


..

He looks really limited to me. He isn't a PG. He has below average tools for a two. He isn't explosive. He doesn't get to the rim. He doesn't finish well. He has really low steal and block rates. His rebound rate is low. I just don't see what he does well aside from shooting, but even his shooting profile isn't anything special. He doesn't get to the FT line. He'll probably be alright at catch-and-shoots, but that's about all I'd expect from him as a shooter. I don't think he has much upside at the defensive end. I think there has to be more appealing prospects available. I think it's unlikely he gets drafted.

I totally agree with this assessment. I have watched him a ton, and despite the bias I would naturally have towards Ohio State guys, I would not touch him. He is very limited outside of shooting and would be a huge defensive liability. The Abmas kid from Oral Roberts torched him. Granted, Abmas scored on just about everyone this year.

[The Effect]

"Tbh SG is by far least impacful nba positions there is "

uh,, ever hear of a guy named Michael Jordan?

you gotta add Kobe as well. lol but i think he means in this new era of the NBA

Kobe played most of his career in era before 3 point barage.

Nowdays best SGs are Mitchell, Lavine, Booker, SGA, Beal... Almost all belong in same "high usage, no playoff sucess" category other than Klay Thompson, who is 6'7 and could also play SF if needed.

Again i go back to the lebron\curry factor to explain this

Lebron is too big of a force for most teams to overcome. Thats why in the east, most of these guys really had no chance for playoff success. But you saw that as soon as he moved to the west, a team lead by a SG, the heat, made it to the finals (yeah i know butler is a sg\sf tweener now, but hes played most of his career at SG)
Same with the west. There were so many good teams that just couldnt get past the warriors with curry and thompson (and durant). Thats why we saw the same 2 teams play in the finals 4 straight years

But in 2018, the rockets lead by a SG (harden) made pushed the warriors to a game 7 in the west finals and a team lead by a SG\SF combo (brown and tatum) lead the celtics to a game 7 vs the cavs

in 2016 a team lead by a SG (tor with derozen) made it to the east finals where they again ran into lebron
in 2015 a team lead by SG (hou\harden) made it to the west finals

So yeah, SG outside of thompson havent really lead their teams to the champions, but really thats more because of the teams on top more than anything. Its like the 90s with the bulls. MJ was just so much better than everyone else and had the best SF in the league and one of the best PF of all time, that really no one could compete.
I mean jordan prevented so many all time great players from ever winning anything (barkley, Malone, reggie all come to mind), doesnt mean that their positions were less valuable, its that they werent able to compete with the bulls lineup

[drsd]

I have watched every game he has played at Ohio State. He seems to have low BBiQ, is a below average defender, below average ball handler, and does not finish well around the basket.

He likes the ball in his hand and likes to shoot off the dribble more than catch and shoot. I haven't looked up his numbers comparing the two, but from a feel stand point, I feel like he doesn't shoot as well as you would expect catching and shooting. I would not be high on him as a draft pick for the Magic.

I believe he intends to return to school from what I have heard from people at Ohio State. Just my take having seen him play a lot.

The dribble, step-back three. Oof. No thank you !


Thank you for the information. Sound like Washington's game project to FIBA, not the NBA.

..

[Xatticus]

This is such a silly debate when positions are essentially self-ascribed. James Harden was a SG until he wasn’t. Ignore the positions. Focus on the skill sets.

[OrlChamps2030]

Bro if the Magic draft Mobley I would be worried about the collective well-being of the posters on this board

Yeah, some of us don’t want to watch another 7 years of a big taking 25 shots a game, surrounded by players that can’t shoot the basketball. Post traumatic stress disorder.

The last 7 years weren’t fun for you?

[rcklsscognition]

I better not see a PF/C drafted no matter what slot we have.

[OrlChamps2030]

This is such a silly debate when positions are essentially self-ascribed. James Harden was a SG until he wasn’t. Ignore the positions. Focus on the skill sets.

Yeah it’s pretty convenient not to include Harden

[Knightro]

This is such a silly debate when positions are essentially self-ascribed. James Harden was a SG until he wasn’t. Ignore the positions. Focus on the skill sets.

Totally agree. I don't care about what position someone plays so much as what they can do.

The most valuable skill set in basketball to me by a mile is three-level scoring. Can you make threes, draw fouls at a high clip and finish at the rim efficiently? If the answer is yes, I want you on my team regardless of what position you play.

From there, anything else a player brings to the table is just gravy and ultimately what separates the good talents from the truly great talents.

[Knightro]

Yeah, some of us don’t want to watch another 7 years of a big taking 25 shots a game, surrounded by players that can’t shoot the basketball. Post traumatic stress disorder.

Vucevic failed as a No. 1 offensive option. But that fact doesn't mean playing through a non-wing is not still a viable option.

It just means Vucevic wasn't good enough for that specific role. Nothing more, nothing less.

[KillMonger]

I better not see a PF/C drafted no matter what slot we have.

Unless we can flip said PF/C into something we like


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[VFX]

Yeah, some of us don’t want to watch another 7 years of a big taking 25 shots a game, surrounded by players that can’t shoot the basketball. Post traumatic stress disorder.

Vucevic failed as a No. 1 offensive option. But that fact doesn't mean playing through a non-wing is not still a viable option.

It just means Vucevic wasn't good enough for that specific role. Nothing more, nothing less.

The second part of my statement is actually equally important as the first. Composition matters, or you end up with the 2015-2016 New Orleans Pelicans before the guy you drafted, with a top pick to a **** team, packs his bags and leaves. Orlando isn’t Los Angeles.

[RookieStar]

I better not see a PF/C drafted no matter what slot we have.

Unless we can flip said PF/C into something we like


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Im down with a PF/C if its the 2nd round pick we have. Huff, Petrsusev,Garza, Hurt... big men that can block shots (except Hurt) but is almost automatic from 3 and is basically unblock-able due to their height ( 6'10-7'1)

[RookieStar]

This is such a silly debate when positions are essentially self-ascribed. James Harden was a SG until he wasn’t. Ignore the positions. Focus on the skill sets.

Totally agree. I don't care about what position someone plays so much as what they can do.

The most valuable skill set in basketball to me by a mile is three-level scoring. Can you make threes, draw fouls at a high clip and finish at the rim efficiently? If the answer is yes, I want you on my team regardless of what position you play.

From there, anything else a player brings to the table is just gravy and ultimately what separates the good talents from the truly great talents.

For me its BBIQ to add to ball-handling.

[Knightro]

The second part of my statement is actually equally important as the first. Composition matters, or you end up with the 2015-2016 New Orleans Pelicans before the guy you drafted, with a top pick to a **** team, packs his bags and leaves. Orlando isn’t Los Angeles.

I don't disagree with you on that fact that teams do need as much capable outside shooting as they can find no matter what position their best player plays.

In fact, shooting is an even more important when you do have a star talent because of how much attention from help defenders they command on a play-to-play basis.

But obviously complimentary shooters are a whole lot easier to find than true star talents.

The Magic had the worst of both worlds. A guy who wasn't a real No. 1 option in Vucevic miscast as their No. 1 option *plus* a team that couldn't make outside shots at a high level around him.

But that said, a team full of great shooters isn't going to make a non-star player become a capable No. 1 offensive option if it just isn't in his skill set.

[VFX]

The second part of my statement is actually equally important as the first. Composition matters, or you end up with the 2015-2016 New Orleans Pelicans before the guy you drafted, with a top pick to a **** team, packs his bags and leaves. Orlando isn’t Los Angeles.

I don't disagree with you on that fact that teams do need as much capable outside shooting as they can find no matter what position their best player plays.

In fact, shooting is an even more important when you do have a star talent because of how much attention from help defenders they command on a play-to-play basis.

But obviously complimentary shooters are a whole lot easier to find than true star talents.

The Magic had the worst of both worlds. A guy who wasn't a real No. 1 option in Vucevic miscast as their No. 1 option *plus* a team that couldn't make outside shots at a high level around him.

But that said, a team full of great shooters isn't going to make a non-star player become a capable No. 1 offensive option if it just isn't in his skill set.

It’s a chicken or the egg scenario. Once you draft elite talent you have a countdown on building a coherent team to convince them to stay. In other words, finding the correct pieces to highlight their strengths and mitigate their weaknesses.

Obviously any team without true elite talent will be decent with players that can at least get buckets. Not sure Orlando has that kind of reliability yet on offense.

You’d have to hope Hampton, Cole, or Okeke would step up to that if significant moves weren’t made in that timeframe.

[Knightro]

End of the regular season mock from Jonathan Wasserman 5/17

People aren't going to like this one...

3. Orlando Magic: Evan Mobley (USC, PF/C, Freshman)

Odds at No. 1 overall: 14.0 percent
Odds at top four: 52.1 percent

Promising signs from Wendell Carter Jr. and Mohamed Bamba won't prevent the Orlando Magic from taking Evan Mobley.

He'd become the team's top priority and prospect, with elite defensive potential and the right skills for a big man in today's NBA.

Opponents had trouble scoring against USC because of Mobley's outstanding timing as a shot-blocker and lateral quickness for containing wings or guards in space. But it's flashes of ball-handling in transition, face-up moves from the arc, shooting touch and passing that suggest Mobley could develop into a two-way All-Star center.

8. Orlando Magic (via Bulls): Jalen Johnson (Duke, PF, Freshman)

With the Chicago Bulls pick, the Orlando Magic will just keep looking to add talent for their rebuild. Needs still shouldn't come into play for a roster this far away. And Jalen Johnson should have a best-player-available case with his 6'9", 220-pound frame and athleticism, face-up playmaking, paint scoring and defensive versatility.

It's reasonable to think his ball-handling and agility will be better suited for the NBA's space and pace.

Between Johnson, Chuma Okeke and Jonathan Isaac, Orlando would have a strong frontcourt core of interchangeable bigs.

Interviews will ultimately be important for teams and Johnson, who opted out of the season midway after he started losing minutes.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2943287-2021-nba-mock-draft-1st-round-projections-with-regular-season-complete

Based on how Wasserman's mock played out, I'd go Suggs at 3 and Sengun at 8 with Carter and Fultz shipped out.

[RookieStar]

I still dont get how high Jalen Johnson is? I thought teams nowadays also consider between the ears and attitude of players already