Official Speculation Thread (Pt XIII, Mods Close)

[InFlames]

So what is the damn answere j_N? My god I've never seen a bigger group of picky ass fans in my life. At least the FO is trying to do something to upgrade the talent around Dwight, Ellis might not be THEE answer but he's sure as **** an upgrade over any of the guards currently on the roster.

Can't you people be happy about anything? We arent going to get the perfect player to put us into contention RIGHT AT THIS VERY SECOND. It'll probablly take a year, the goal is to get Dwight to opt in and along with Ellis add to the existing roster when we clear cap.

How would you feel if our FO did nothing and let Dwight walk?

This guy gets it.

[The Real Dalic]

This.

So what is the damn answere j_N? My god I've never seen a bigger group of picky ass fans in my life. At least the FO is trying to do something to upgrade the talent around Dwight, Ellis might not be THEE answer but he's sure as **** an upgrade over any of the guards currently on the roster.

Can't you people be happy about anything? We arent going to get the perfect player to put us into contention RIGHT AT THIS VERY SECOND. It'll probablly take a year, the goal is to get Dwight to opt in and along with Ellis add to the existing roster when we clear cap.

How would you feel if our FO did nothing and let Dwight walk?

This too!

[The Real Dalic]

I never understand when people say know one wants our trash... then, when there's a possibility someone will take our trash we overrate them.....

[jernigan]

This.

So what is the damn answere j_N? My god I've never seen a bigger group of picky ass fans in my life. At least the FO is trying to do something to upgrade the talent around Dwight, Ellis might not be THEE answer but he's sure as **** an upgrade over any of the guards currently on the roster.

Can't you people be happy about anything? We arent going to get the perfect player to put us into contention RIGHT AT THIS VERY SECOND. It'll probablly take a year, the goal is to get Dwight to opt in and along with Ellis add to the existing roster when we clear cap.

How would you feel if our FO did nothing and let Dwight walk?

This too!

Bingo!

[Loneil]

The problem with trading for Nash and especially Ellis is that if we don't retain Dwight even just for one more year, those trades will backfire tremendously. Nash's not as much, because at the least he'd be an expiring contract.

But, it's going to take more than we want to give up to get Ellis. They value him more than they should. Redick + Anderson + Picks probably would be something that they'd want. I can't see why they'd want Nelson (already have two PGs...and have no need to add that contract) or Richardson (contract).

OK...so imagine we trade those guys for Ellis, and then Dwight leaves. We're screwed. We're left with a terribly inefficient scorer making 11 million dollar a year with nothing around him. We're worse off than we'd be honestly if we just let Dwight walk.

That's why this is all so hard. Dwight's situation complicates everything. I'd trade Redick and Anderson for Ellis or Nash if it meant keeping Dwight. However, we CAN NOT trade for those guys without knowing that Dwight will at least exercise that option. We just can't...especially not if we have to give up some of our best assets (perhaps our only two good assets).

I know the FO is working with Dwight, and hopefully he says "hey, if you get either of these guys, I'll exercise my option". I can't see that happen, and since that's the case, I can't see either of these trades happening. The Dwight Howard "holding the Magic hostage" thing is coming into effect here.

i almost think the magic will have to have some sort of under the table commitment from dwight before making this deal. if a deal to this extent goes down i think its a good sign about dwight.

[warren4prez]

What guys think.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=6vut6j9

[toquito]

We'll be fine guise. championshipz here we come

[evan8888]

The problem with trading for Nash and especially Ellis is that if we don't retain Dwight even just for one more year, those trades will backfire tremendously. Nash's not as much, because at the least he'd be an expiring contract.

But, it's going to take more than we want to give up to get Ellis. They value him more than they should. Redick + Anderson + Picks probably would be something that they'd want. I can't see why they'd want Nelson (already have two PGs...and have no need to add that contract) or Richardson (contract).

OK...so imagine we trade those guys for Ellis, and then Dwight leaves. We're screwed. We're left with a terribly inefficient scorer making 11 million dollar a year with nothing around him. We're worse off than we'd be honestly if we just let Dwight walk.

That's why this is all so hard. Dwight's situation complicates everything. I'd trade Redick and Anderson for Ellis or Nash if it meant keeping Dwight. However, we CAN NOT trade for those guys without knowing that Dwight will at least exercise that option. We just can't...especially not if we have to give up some of our best assets (perhaps our only two good assets).

I know the FO is working with Dwight, and hopefully he says "hey, if you get either of these guys, I'll exercise my option". I can't see that happen, and since that's the case, I can't see either of these trades happening. The Dwight Howard "holding the Magic hostage" thing is coming into effect here.

Jameer would had some value for any team due to his contract being a possible expiring. He can opt out of his player option and that would be 8 million off the books for any team. Also I think we can sell the idea of J-Rich going to GS since he will be a fan favorite there and will help sell some tickets. His contract is long winded, but GS will need guard/wing depth.

Yeah. Jameer has value on a contending team. Same I guess for J-Rich, though I doubt it.

GS doesn't need help selling tickets, they do fine, and have for the past 7 or so years, even though they've only made the playoffs once during that span. Even if they did, it's not worth his 4 year contract. Trading for a player just to sell tickets is a stupid notion. The best way to get fans to come in is put a good team on the court, and Richardson would hinder that. We can't brainwash them into doing a trade that helps us...and they shouldn't have any interest in Richardson.

Plus, they've all but said that they won't trade with us unless it's a Howard trade.

[jernigan]

The problem with trading for Nash and especially Ellis is that if we don't retain Dwight even just for one more year, those trades will backfire tremendously. Nash's not as much, because at the least he'd be an expiring contract.

But, it's going to take more than we want to give up to get Ellis. They value him more than they should. Redick + Anderson + Picks probably would be something that they'd want. I can't see why they'd want Nelson (already have two PGs...and have no need to add that contract) or Richardson (contract).

OK...so imagine we trade those guys for Ellis, and then Dwight leaves. We're screwed. We're left with a terribly inefficient scorer making 11 million dollar a year with nothing around him. We're worse off than we'd be honestly if we just let Dwight walk.

That's why this is all so hard. Dwight's situation complicates everything. I'd trade Redick and Anderson for Ellis or Nash if it meant keeping Dwight. However, we CAN NOT trade for those guys without knowing that Dwight will at least exercise that option. We just can't...especially not if we have to give up some of our best assets (perhaps our only two good assets).

I know the FO is working with Dwight, and hopefully he says "hey, if you get either of these guys, I'll exercise my option". I can't see that happen, and since that's the case, I can't see either of these trades happening. The Dwight Howard "holding the Magic hostage" thing is coming into effect here.

Jameer would had some value for any team due to his contract being a possible expiring. He can opt out of his player option and that would be 8 million off the books for any team. Also I think we can sell the idea of J-Rich going to GS since he will be a fan favorite there and will help sell some tickets. His contract is long winded, but GS will need guard/wing depth.

Yeah. Jameer has value on a contending team. Same I guess for J-Rich, though I doubt it.

GS doesn't need help selling tickets, they do fine, and have for the past 7 or so years, even though they've only made the playoffs once during that span. Even if they did, it's not worth his 4 year contract. Trading for a player just to sell tickets is a stupid notion. The best way to get fans to come in is put a good team on the court, and Richardson would hinder that. We can't brainwash them into doing a trade that helps us...and they shouldn't have any interest in Richardson.

Plus, they've all but said that they won't trade with us unless it's a Howard trade.

Nahh don't believe the hype.

[evan8888]

What guys think.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=6vut6j9

Why would NO want Lee's awful contract? Trading a huge expiring for THAT? What's their goal if they trade for Nelson and Lee? Be a 9 seed forever?

It's hard to look at this from the other perspective, but it helps. Pretend you're a NOH fan...you'd laugh at that trade, probably. I would. If I'm a young team in the middle of rebuilding, the last thing I'm doing is adding those salaries to my team.

[The Real Dalic]

What guys think.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=6vut6j9

Magic do it, GSW most likely does it, I don't think NOH would do it. they get a better player than Ariza, but, they also get a HUGE contract. I'd rather take back Lee anyway. he'd be a good replacement for Anderson. but, I'd be fine with anything as long as Ellis gets here.

[omagic133]

Schmitz is a tool:

MagicInsider If the renewed Monta Ellis-to-Magic talk is true...does that mean Dwight is leaning toward staying? I don' t get it, frankly

MagicInsider Let's see: DHoward demands trade to 3 teams, preferably N.J. market...but addition of Monta Ellis saves Orlando?

MagicInsider If I'm the Magic, that old 3-way with Brook Lopez and Gerald Wallace for D12 sounds better and better...

[Phantom418]

What guys think.

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachi ... Id=6vut6j9

Why would NO want Lee's awful contract? Trading a huge expiring for THAT? What's their goal if they trade for Nelson and Lee? Be a 9 seed forever?

It's hard to look at this from the other perspective, but it helps. Pretend you're a NOH fan...you'd laugh at that trade, probably. I would. If I'm a young team in the middle of rebuilding, the last thing I'm doing is adding those salaries to my team.

Jameer would opt out, doubt he has any interest in playing for NO.

[arsenal6106]

Do you guys think it is a good idea that we just create a whole new thread for the Monta debate?

It's kind of hard to sift through this thread to find any updates with everybody debating the importance of Monta on this team.

[The Real Dalic]

Don't know if this was posted before but, Tom Penn was on SportsCenter and he said that Jameer and another guard makes sense for GSW.... the problem is those fools tricked themselves into thinking they could get Dwight....

[vinageras]

Ellis would be a good addition to the team. He is capable of scoring big, even if he needs to shoot a lot. Also, as you guys said, he would be Jameer Nelson on steroids, since Jameer has always been a scoring PG (more of a SG in a PG's body), and though it would be a great addition. Nevertheless, he wouldn't be worth both Ryan + JJ Redick in my opinion, which is a dealbreaker, since GS would at least want them both for Ellis.

The problem here is that even if Dwight might want to play with Ellis because he is a scorer, he's certainly not his first option. Let's see the guys that Dwight has said he wants to play with:

- Chris Paul: Pass-first PG
- Deron Williams: Pass-first PG until this season
- Josh Smith: Dwight's good friend, who plays hard defense and doesn't need 20 shots a game to be happy
- Carlos Boozer: Offensive PF that shoots the mid-range as his favorite shot, doesn't clog the lane
- Stephen Jackson: Great locker room material, who is known to do a little of everything, including being a Point Forward sometimes.
- Steve Nash: Pass-first PG
- Monta Ellis: What we would've hoped Jameer would turn into.

Dwight wants to be the CENTER OF ATTENTION in any team he plays for, that's why NJ is top of the list. He would be the happiest with a Pass-first PG star who would facilitate things for him. His list proves this to some point, and I think the ASG also reminded him that not much teams would play him as the main scoring threat, especially having glorified swingmen in those teams. He does not want to turn into Chris Bosh (3rd option on a team) or Tyson Chandler (defensive beast who can only get points when the rest of the team wants him to). That is why I don't think Monta Ellis is a solution. Ryan and JJ are both great teammates, and play through Howard, not taking away his shots, and that's why, though they're not as good as Ellis, they are a better fit.

It would be a dream for me (and probably for Howard) to get Steve Nash here. That's where I'd throw all my chips, but the fact, as you guys said, is he is 38, so we can't be stupid enough to send the model role player in JJ and a possible young star (Love-lite) in Ryan Anderson. Decisions are tougher than you guys think...

[j_n]

This is the thing that people don't realize. Aside from not having a true PG that can play in the NBA, we also don't have a fast wing player who is capable of putting up more than 20 points a night on a consistent basis. The beauty of ellis is that he is a good enough PG to make passes and set up dwight and other players, but he is also a lightning fast slasher, that can create his own shot, something the magic haven't really had in years.

This.

So what is the damn answere j_N?

Steve nash.

[ZeusIsLoose]

Schmitz is a tool:

MagicInsider If the renewed Monta Ellis-to-Magic talk is true...does that mean Dwight is leaning toward staying? I don' t get it, frankly

MagicInsider Let's see: DHoward demands trade to 3 teams, preferably N.J. market...but addition of Monta Ellis saves Orlando?

MagicInsider If I'm the Magic, that old 3-way with Brook Lopez and Gerald Wallace for D12 sounds better and better...

BS is forever banned on this thread. people need to know this. PLEASE, NO QUOTING BS OR BIANCHI!

[The Other Ankle]

Hello all! LT Magic fan and Board Lurker here. Just looked it up: I last posted Mon Jul 28, 2008 10:17 am. Hadn't logged in since back then and wasn't sure until just now if it still worked...

My screen name comes from the fact that I had the same surgery from the same doctor at Duke that Grant Hill finally received. You know, the one that actually WORKED after two previous failures... Anyway, I'm bored and hung out to dry with this Dwight drama like many of you, so I thought I'd say "Hi!".

I don't pretend to have any current connections or anything, although John Gabriel was my next door neighbor from when he first came from Philly as a video scout until after Shaq left. So I do have some OLD stories from those years. Good guy. Nice family. And the first one to time expiring contracts for a free-agent windfall, which is how many teams have tried to do it since.

IF Hill had had THE RIGHT SURGERY first, instead of after two failed attempts, things would have turned out much better for the TMac era Magic. McGrady was too young and immature to be the total focus of our team, no matter how good he was.

Anyway, I thought it would be funny to bury this "Hello" in a 2000+ post thread and see if anyone noticed. Anyone care for a mint? I'll chime in on the relevant discussion next if it seems that the board has interest. Trying to keep my post count down to a reasonable number, you know, because I'm concerned about virtual deforestation.

[Last Guardian]

am i the only one that thinks ellis is closer to (in terms of playing style) westbrook and rose than most people?

if rose is the A, westbrook the A-, i think ellis can be a B+ version of them-

If you do then your insane. Monta Ellis is perhaps the most overrated player in the league. Although I do think most of the NBA world knows he really not that good. That is the reason why he never gets on the all-star team.

Monta Ellis is extremely inefficient. He takes 19 shots to score 22 points. Two years ago he had an offensive rating of 99. Took 22 shots to score 25 points. Monta Ellis is the poster boy of good player that is used like a superstar. Because of that it kills his efficiency and it kills the GSW offensive efficiency. He isn't close to Westbrook or Rose.

Imagine if a team took Jamal Crawford and made him there number 1 option for 40 minutes a game. Imagine if the 76ers made Louis Williams and made him there number 1 option for 40 minutes a game. That is what Golden State has done with Monta Ellis. The team that trades for that is the team that trades for him.

Monta Ellis not that good. He is highly overrated by many. He is not a efficient scorer. He just putting up numbers on a bad high pace team. Advance stats would say the Magic get much worse trading Anderson for Ellis. I don't think the Magic should be against getting Ellis. If they can get him by keeping Ryan Anderson go for it. If you can't your trading away a more efficient player. A player who has 60% TS. Next to Kevin Love perhaps the best PF you could ever play next to Dwight. You stretch Anderson's numbers out to Kevin Love minutes he a 20 and 10 player. Ryan Anderson puts up his numbers in 31. It would be insane for the Magic to trade Ryan Anderson unless a megastar is coming in return. Monta Ellis is not close to a megastar. Matter of fact the numbers say Ryan Anderson is better than Monta Ellis.

Perfectly said.