2025 NBA Draft

[drsd]

Package our picks for Kuh-Nipple. If not grab WCJ and sell the rest.

If the Magic can trade their two FRPs and two SRPs to gain the draft rights of Kon Knueppel, I Heart-Love this trade!

I don't get why he is not mocked higher or scouted higher. The dude screams "NBA shooter". That is a employable skill in this league.

He has every tool to be "this generation's Jeff Hornacek".

[KillMonger]

I do not get the love for Maluach. I get the size but I don't see enough there to think he should be a top 10 pick... admittedly, I haven't followed the 2025 draft so I don't have guys ahead of him but he doesn't look like a traditional top-10 pick IMO.

i have some of the same questions about maluach......however i thought about what he could end up becoming....he's 18 years old with that kind of frame, on the right program he's going to be a monster at least physically.....it's the skills i'm wanting to see....what kind of bag does he have? iirc embiid used to be pretty raw around the same age, then his skills grew exponentially by the time he was at kansas night and day difference from how he was in high school......then again embiid is 1 of 1

[pepe1991]

I do not get the love for Maluach. I get the size but I don't see enough there to think he should be a top 10 pick... admittedly, I haven't followed the 2025 draft so I don't have guys ahead of him but he doesn't look like a traditional top-10 pick IMO.

i have some of the same questions about maluach......however i thought about what he could end up becoming....he's 18 years old with that kind of frame, on the right program he's going to be a monster at least physically.....it's the skills i'm wanting to see....what kind of bag does he have? iirc embiid used to be pretty raw around the same age, then his skills grew exponentially by the time he was at kansas night and day difference from how he was in high school......then again embiid is 1 of 1

He is draft mine that every smart team will avoid.

Aside from wow factor of 7'2 person that can move his feet at rather fast rate, for a size, he has litrally nothing.

Just watching him vs Houston was depressing. Average size of Houston team is 6'5-at most, tallest person was 6'7- at most. And guy goes out sad, allowing them to bait him into 4 fouls, 0 rebounds in 20 min , made one off-poor-screen-curl-dunk. That was it.

He started basketball too old to ever develop natural instics for it. Often grabs people by hands, moves screens ( refs often simply don't call it) , lays hands on attacking players for no reason, doesn't position himself for rebounds. Often just grabs rebounds because he is tall, not because he is in good position to get ones. He is pretty awful rebounder for size.

Passing skills virtually do not exist. Vision- zero.

He isn't even good shotblocker for player that is rim defender. but once again, that's not that shocking, his basketball awarness on both ends is very poor.

Whoever gets him will - remove him from rotation in rookie year, call him "prospect"; see next year it's still impossible to play him, still call him "prospect" and 4 years from now he will be Thon Maker /Bamba /Bol.

[FrightCoward]

Why the draft always underrate guys like WCJ and McCain? Dude is a legit performer in NCAA Tournament. Is it because of lack of size and potential? 4 year college players always rated low in draft.

The NBA loves projection and “potential” and feel like they can mold these raw young players into something, whereas four year players are considered capped with their ceiling because why would they stay in college if they were good enough to go to the league sooner? It’s dumb logic, because so many of these raw high schoolers go on to absolutely suck in the pros, but that’s the thinking behind it. Also, the landscape has changed a bit with the NIL now where these players don’t need the money nearly as much and Clayton has dramatically improved his stock coming back this season and learning to run the point. If he has a great game against that Houston defense and leads Florida to the title, I feel like he’s got to be a lottery pick. He’s going to be a fantastic pro even if the scouts don’t see it because they’re blinded by him being a four year senior.

[Idiosyncratic]

Why the draft always underrate guys like WCJ and McCain? Dude is a legit performer in NCAA Tournament. Is it because of lack of size and potential? 4 year college players always rated low in draft.

The NBA loves projection and “potential” and feel like they can mold these raw young players into something, whereas four year players are considered capped with their ceiling because why would they stay in college if they were good enough to go to the league sooner? It’s dumb logic, because so many of these raw high schoolers go on to absolutely suck in the pros, but that’s the thinking behind it. Also, the landscape has changed a bit with the NIL now where these players don’t need the money nearly as much and Clayton has dramatically improved his stock coming back this season and learning to run the point. If he has a great game against that Houston defense and leads Florida to the title, I feel like he’s got to be a lottery pick. He’s going to be a fantastic pro even if the scouts don’t see it because they’re blinded by him being a four year senior.

I mean I think data would probably back up the "potential" aspect. I would bet a good portion of elite players were drafted as younger players (Or in Jokic/Giannis/Luka case not from college, but 19 when they got drafted). Of course there are outliers like Steph and Dame and others, but mostly I would bet teams probably have close to the right idea when swinging for upside.

Doesn't mean there isn't a place for older players, especially if you are drafting for a role player, but I don't think it is dumb logic. Also McCain was a freshman.

I think Clayton beyond the age thing is because he is mostly a score only player. And not only a score only player, but a score only player with bad height. If you are a short guard nowadays especially without elite vision the bar for scoring is very high to stay on the floor. His numbers were good in the regular season, but only very marginal improvement over his Sophmore and Junior year. I still would have had him as an early 2nd rounder, no shame in that in a deep draft. His tournament play, where I would bet stats say it is dangerous to overrate the small sample, probably will have him as at least a late 1st. I think some of the ways he is scoring helps because it looks translatable, I definitely think he's a solid prospect.

That's not a bad draft stock for a 22 year old. And most public mocks lag really badly so take them with a grain of salt. Closer to draft will probably be more accurate, but I think this definitely could be a weird draft because the player value late lottery through the rest of the 1st seems pretty subjective.

[FrightCoward]

Why the draft always underrate guys like WCJ and McCain? Dude is a legit performer in NCAA Tournament. Is it because of lack of size and potential? 4 year college players always rated low in draft.

The NBA loves projection and “potential” and feel like they can mold these raw young players into something, whereas four year players are considered capped with their ceiling because why would they stay in college if they were good enough to go to the league sooner? It’s dumb logic, because so many of these raw high schoolers go on to absolutely suck in the pros, but that’s the thinking behind it. Also, the landscape has changed a bit with the NIL now where these players don’t need the money nearly as much and Clayton has dramatically improved his stock coming back this season and learning to run the point. If he has a great game against that Houston defense and leads Florida to the title, I feel like he’s got to be a lottery pick. He’s going to be a fantastic pro even if the scouts don’t see it because they’re blinded by him being a four year senior.

I mean I think data would probably back up the "potential" aspect. I would bet a good portion of elite players were drafted as younger players (Or in Jokic/Giannis/Luka case not from college, but 19 when they got drafted). Of course there are outliers like Steph and Dame and others, but mostly I would bet teams probably have close to the right idea when swinging for upside.

Doesn't mean there isn't a place for older players, especially if you are drafting for a role player, but I don't think it is dumb logic. Also McCain was a freshman.

I think Clayton beyond the age thing is because he is mostly a score only player. And not only a score only player, but a score only player with bad height. If you are a short guard nowadays especially without elite vision the bar for scoring is very high to stay on the floor. His numbers were good in the regular season, but only very marginal improvement over his Sophmore and Junior year. I still would have had him as an early 2nd rounder, no shame in that in a deep draft. His tournament play, where I would bet stats say it is dangerous to overrate the small sample, probably will have him as at least a late 1st. I think some of the ways he is scoring helps because it looks translatable, I definitely think he's a solid prospect.

That's not a bad draft stock for a 22 year old. And most public mocks lag really badly so take them with a grain of salt. Closer to draft will probably be more accurate, but I think this definitely could be a weird draft because the player value late lottery through the rest of the 1st seems pretty subjective.

If you’re drafting Clayton as a prospect you need to play him at the point and let him handle the ball. He's got good height for that position (he measured over 6’2 barefoot last season) and is a good enough facilitator that should continue to get better the more he plays the position. His playmaking has been under-looked this season because of his ability to take over games, but he’s played the point well. His moving to that position in the offseason is one of the main reasons Florida’s been so good as it’s opened up things for the rest of the team.

[Idiosyncratic]

The NBA loves projection and “potential” and feel like they can mold these raw young players into something, whereas four year players are considered capped with their ceiling because why would they stay in college if they were good enough to go to the league sooner? It’s dumb logic, because so many of these raw high schoolers go on to absolutely suck in the pros, but that’s the thinking behind it. Also, the landscape has changed a bit with the NIL now where these players don’t need the money nearly as much and Clayton has dramatically improved his stock coming back this season and learning to run the point. If he has a great game against that Houston defense and leads Florida to the title, I feel like he’s got to be a lottery pick. He’s going to be a fantastic pro even if the scouts don’t see it because they’re blinded by him being a four year senior.

I mean I think data would probably back up the "potential" aspect. I would bet a good portion of elite players were drafted as younger players (Or in Jokic/Giannis/Luka case not from college, but 19 when they got drafted). Of course there are outliers like Steph and Dame and others, but mostly I would bet teams probably have close to the right idea when swinging for upside.

Doesn't mean there isn't a place for older players, especially if you are drafting for a role player, but I don't think it is dumb logic. Also McCain was a freshman.

I think Clayton beyond the age thing is because he is mostly a score only player. And not only a score only player, but a score only player with bad height. If you are a short guard nowadays especially without elite vision the bar for scoring is very high to stay on the floor. His numbers were good in the regular season, but only very marginal improvement over his Sophmore and Junior year. I still would have had him as an early 2nd rounder, no shame in that in a deep draft. His tournament play, where I would bet stats say it is dangerous to overrate the small sample, probably will have him as at least a late 1st. I think some of the ways he is scoring helps because it looks translatable, I definitely think he's a solid prospect.

That's not a bad draft stock for a 22 year old. And most public mocks lag really badly so take them with a grain of salt. Closer to draft will probably be more accurate, but I think this definitely could be a weird draft because the player value late lottery through the rest of the 1st seems pretty subjective.

If you’re drafting Clayton as a prospect you need to play him at the point and let him handle the ball. He's got good height for that position (he measured over 6’2 barefoot last season) and is a good enough facilitator that should continue to get better the more he plays the position. His playmaking has been under-looked this season because of his ability to take over games, but he’s played the point well. His moving to that position in the offseason is one of the main reasons Florida’s been so good as it’s opened up things for the rest of the team.

If you believe he can play point, then yeah he probably should go in the middle of the 1st or even late lottery. If you are assuming microwave scorer like I am then somewhere in the 20s I would say.

I personally don't see enough vision to be a lead guard. But if he plays on a team with an offensive hub at a different position then maybe he can start at point. Maybe we still believe in Paolo as that guy. Maybe I'm wrong about Clayton's passing and decision making. It's not hard to be wrong about college players, very difficult to project.

Clayton averaged fewer assists this year than Suggs did as a 19 year old in 4 fewer minutes per game FWIW. And Suggs didn't end up being a PG. Not the end all be all, when I say I don't see the decision making or vision I am talking eye test, but interesting stat.

I like Clayton, not trying to rain on the parade, I just wanted to point out that younger players getting picked earlier is pretty sound logic. I think Clayton at this point would be very justifiable with the Nuggets pick if we kept it. I think his stock has legitimately improved because he is scoring in a fashion that you can see working in the NBA. I am still always going to be wary of overrating small samples.

[eyriq]

Looking at raw stats for college prospects Clayton Jr. comes in as the 12th best player. Older players tend to score higher and get discounted as a result, but I could see putting a first round grade on Clayton Jr. and not losing any sleep over it.
1. Cooper Flagg
2. Johni Broome
3. Ryan Kalkbrenner
4. Nique Clifford
5. Bennett Stirtz
6. Yaxel Lendeborg
7. Braden Smith
8. Khaman Maluach
9. Collin Murray-Boyles
10. Kon Knueppel
11. JT Toppin
12 Walter Clayton Jr.

[basketballRob]

Why the draft always underrate guys like WCJ and McCain? Dude is a legit performer in NCAA Tournament. Is it because of lack of size and potential? 4 year college players always rated low in draft.

The NBA loves projection and “potential” and feel like they can mold these raw young players into something, whereas four year players are considered capped with their ceiling because why would they stay in college if they were good enough to go to the league sooner? It’s dumb logic, because so many of these raw high schoolers go on to absolutely suck in the pros, but that’s the thinking behind it. Also, the landscape has changed a bit with the NIL now where these players don’t need the money nearly as much and Clayton has dramatically improved his stock coming back this season and learning to run the point. If he has a great game against that Houston defense and leads Florida to the title, I feel like he’s got to be a lottery pick. He’s going to be a fantastic pro even if the scouts don’t see it because they’re blinded by him being a four year senior.

Clayton is likely to go between 25-35. That's just where older, small guards go.

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[basketballRob]

I mean I think data would probably back up the "potential" aspect. I would bet a good portion of elite players were drafted as younger players (Or in Jokic/Giannis/Luka case not from college, but 19 when they got drafted). Of course there are outliers like Steph and Dame and others, but mostly I would bet teams probably have close to the right idea when swinging for upside.

Doesn't mean there isn't a place for older players, especially if you are drafting for a role player, but I don't think it is dumb logic. Also McCain was a freshman.

I think Clayton beyond the age thing is because he is mostly a score only player. And not only a score only player, but a score only player with bad height. If you are a short guard nowadays especially without elite vision the bar for scoring is very high to stay on the floor. His numbers were good in the regular season, but only very marginal improvement over his Sophmore and Junior year. I still would have had him as an early 2nd rounder, no shame in that in a deep draft. His tournament play, where I would bet stats say it is dangerous to overrate the small sample, probably will have him as at least a late 1st. I think some of the ways he is scoring helps because it looks translatable, I definitely think he's a solid prospect.

That's not a bad draft stock for a 22 year old. And most public mocks lag really badly so take them with a grain of salt. Closer to draft will probably be more accurate, but I think this definitely could be a weird draft because the player value late lottery through the rest of the 1st seems pretty subjective.

If you’re drafting Clayton as a prospect you need to play him at the point and let him handle the ball. He's got good height for that position (he measured over 6’2 barefoot last season) and is a good enough facilitator that should continue to get better the more he plays the position. His playmaking has been under-looked this season because of his ability to take over games, but he’s played the point well. His moving to that position in the offseason is one of the main reasons Florida’s been so good as it’s opened up things for the rest of the team.

If you believe he can play point, then yeah he probably should go in the middle of the 1st or even late lottery. If you are assuming microwave scorer like I am then somewhere in the 20s I would say.

I personally don't see enough vision to be a lead guard. But if he plays on a team with an offensive hub at a different position then maybe he can start at point. Maybe we still believe in Paolo as that guy. Maybe I'm wrong about Clayton's passing and decision making. It's not hard to be wrong about college players, very difficult to project.

Clayton averaged fewer assists this year than Suggs did as a 19 year old in 4 fewer minutes per game FWIW. And Suggs didn't end up being a PG. Not the end all be all, when I say I don't see the decision making or vision I am talking eye test, but interesting stat.

I like Clayton, not trying to rain on the parade, I just wanted to point out that younger players getting picked earlier is pretty sound logic. I think Clayton at this point would be very justifiable with the Nuggets pick if we kept it. I think his stock has legitimately improved because he is scoring in a fashion that you can see working in the NBA. I am still always going to be wary of overrating small samples.

He's the type of guard that fits with Paolo and Franz. You need to guard Clayton 30' from the basket.

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[RichCollab]

If you’re drafting Clayton as a prospect you need to play him at the point and let him handle the ball. He's got good height for that position (he measured over 6’2 barefoot last season) and is a good enough facilitator that should continue to get better the more he plays the position. His playmaking has been under-looked this season because of his ability to take over games, but he’s played the point well. His moving to that position in the offseason is one of the main reasons Florida’s been so good as it’s opened up things for the rest of the team.

If you believe he can play point, then yeah he probably should go in the middle of the 1st or even late lottery. If you are assuming microwave scorer like I am then somewhere in the 20s I would say.

I personally don't see enough vision to be a lead guard. But if he plays on a team with an offensive hub at a different position then maybe he can start at point. Maybe we still believe in Paolo as that guy. Maybe I'm wrong about Clayton's passing and decision making. It's not hard to be wrong about college players, very difficult to project.

Clayton averaged fewer assists this year than Suggs did as a 19 year old in 4 fewer minutes per game FWIW. And Suggs didn't end up being a PG. Not the end all be all, when I say I don't see the decision making or vision I am talking eye test, but interesting stat.

I like Clayton, not trying to rain on the parade, I just wanted to point out that younger players getting picked earlier is pretty sound logic. I think Clayton at this point would be very justifiable with the Nuggets pick if we kept it. I think his stock has legitimately improved because he is scoring in a fashion that you can see working in the NBA. I am still always going to be wary of overrating small samples.

He's the type of guard that fits with Paolo and Franz. You need to guard Clayton 30' from the basket.

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He is barely an NBA player. This offseason is going to be epic with how bad some fans are going to crash.

[Idiosyncratic]

He is barely an NBA player. This offseason is going to be epic with how bad some fans are going to crash.

I mean if they go into the season thinking any of the guys they pick are the guard answers right now that is a huge mistake IMO. But if they acquire someone for now and take him or someone else as a lottery ticket I think that is fine.

[RichCollab]

He is barely an NBA player. This offseason is going to be epic with how bad some fans are going to crash.

I mean if they go into the season thinking any of the guys they pick are the guard answers right now that is a huge mistake IMO. But if they acquire someone for now and take him or someone else as a lottery ticket I think that is fine.

Clayton is a senior and not a lottery ticket though.

[basketballRob]

He is barely an NBA player. This offseason is going to be epic with how bad some fans are going to crash.

I mean if they go into the season thinking any of the guys they pick are the guard answers right now that is a huge mistake IMO. But if they acquire someone for now and take him or someone else as a lottery ticket I think that is fine.

Clayton is a senior and not a lottery ticket though.

I think taking him with Denver's pick is good.

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[Idiosyncratic]

He is barely an NBA player. This offseason is going to be epic with how bad some fans are going to crash.

I mean if they go into the season thinking any of the guys they pick are the guard answers right now that is a huge mistake IMO. But if they acquire someone for now and take him or someone else as a lottery ticket I think that is fine.

Clayton is a senior and not a lottery ticket though.

I mean I disagree. Seniors still can improve and we aren't drafting for stars necessarily, we need good fits with Paolo and Franz and there is a real chance Clayton does some things we need.

There's a chance he can play PG and outside of Fears and Harper I wouldn't be mad at someone for having Clayton near the top of the PG list. I like Jase but he has demonstrated even fewer PG traits than Clayton. Neither of our picks are going to be that high to where we are taking a surer bet and when you look at our biggest needs (shooting, ball-handling, passing) he definitely checks some boxes. Him being a senior is the reason we will possibly have a chance to take him if we want. So I can't really fault people for being excited about the potential of picking him.

There's a good chance the draft occurs before any major trades though and I hope they still add a guard after it even if they take someone like him.

[RichCollab]

I mean if they go into the season thinking any of the guys they pick are the guard answers right now that is a huge mistake IMO. But if they acquire someone for now and take him or someone else as a lottery ticket I think that is fine.

Clayton is a senior and not a lottery ticket though.

I think taking him with Denver's pick is good.

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He definitely has had the best NCAA tournament run. He was legit in the 50th range and now leads likely gets picked in the 1st.

This is his 1st year playing on the ball in college. Not sure he projects as an NBA pg. Scoring and Shooting punch off the bench would be nice.

[basketballRob]

Clayton is a senior and not a lottery ticket though.

I think taking him with Denver's pick is good.

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He definitely has had the best NCAA tournament run. He was legit in the 50th range and now leads likely gets picked in the 1st.

This is his 1st year playing on the ball in college. Not sure he projects as an NBA pg. Scoring and Shooting punch off the bench would be nice.

He's going to be a really good NBA player and won't make it out of the 20s.

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[pepe1991]

Post Jimmer Fredette nba was never the same for college seniors.

And often seniors are hit or miss. But once you miss with senior, due his age, he is wasted pick.
For every Prichard, Bane, Cam Johnson , you have Chirs Duerte, Chandler Hutchison type of players.

Jamie Jaquez is interesting story. Guy was elite for a rookie. For a rookie.
Year later, he didn't improve ( age 24) and he is out of rotation.

And where you go from here ? Entire nba is about 2 types of players:
1) good enough to play
2) young enough to belive they can improve

And seniors often are neither.

[basketballRob]

Andrew Nembhard played 4 years in college and was drafted 31st. He's close to the same size as Clayton Jr. Nembhard is 6'3" without shoes. Clayton Jr. is 6'2.5".

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[Skybox]

I mean if they go into the season thinking any of the guys they pick are the guard answers right now that is a huge mistake IMO. But if they acquire someone for now and take him or someone else as a lottery ticket I think that is fine.

Clayton is a senior and not a lottery ticket though.

I think taking him with Denver's pick is good.

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I agree with Idiosyncratic...assuming he means "lottery ticket" as in, who knows? might pay off big (NOT a lottery pick)...and I agree with Rob that at DEN pick or beyond he might be a nice roll of the dice...I like older players who are proven big-game winners and he can certainly shoot a basketball through a hoop from far away - that is a very real skill that I can see today...as opposed to the usual BS, too smart for the room, 4D chess, advanced metrics analysis of "good form, good footwork, excellent range of mobility in elbows - likely to translate on next level, can be DEVELOPED into a shooter someday"

If I was a betting man, however, I agree with Rich that he's most likely Mac's running mate in Osceola, not Suggs' partner in ORL