Official Speculation Thread (Pt. XLVI "Re-Building" Edition)

[ChildishGambino]

Well we got Moe so are you somewhat happy?

[Nyce_1]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MU9S1ADUCmg[/youtube]
With that 19th pick my target was for either Moe or this guy, but Rob went for Nicholson!
Could have been a perfect replacement for Nelson!?

Memphis sure got a steal... By selecting him @ #25.

OMG, that court vision is ridiculous.

[OrlandoMajinBuu]

Well we got Moe so are you somewhat happy?

Somewhat happy!!!

[dsg2021]

I agree Majin, after Quincy, Wroten was my next top pick. Looks like a total steal of the draft. Not that Nich and Moe wont be steals in the end too, but I saw it more with Wroten.

[cvMagic]

Not getting the "sign Harden" love at all.

I think he's a fantastic player, but not a max-deal superstar. Right now, he's got all the makings of being a Jason Terry type player (in his ideal role) than a guy who can lead a team by himself.

And let's not forget...

The OKC model is to DRAFT a James Harden.
Not sign one to a max deal.

[MitchellUK]

Not getting the "sign Harden" love at all.

I think he's a fantastic player, but not a max-deal superstar. Right now, he's got all the makings of being a Jason Terry type player (in his ideal role) than a guy who can lead a team by himself.

And let's not forget...

The OKC model is to DRAFT a James Harden.
Not sign one to a max deal.

I agree, although I think you're selling him a little short as a Jason Terry. He's better than that. I'd put him in the Manu Ginobili category. He's going to spend most of his career as an option two or maybe three (depending on the quality of his team-mates, but right now we all know how good his team-mates are), but he will undoubtedly have long stretches, playoff series where he is the big mismatch, maybe even an entire season or two in his prime, where he steps up and puts the team on his back.

All that aside, like I say I agree I don't get the clamouring to sign him, mainly due to the timing. Quality though he is, asking him to be (and paying him to be) the man at this stage probably isn't right for the Magic. It would commit us to long-term salary only a year into our rebuild, which doesn't seem to be the direction our team wants to head. He would also make our team a playoff squad again, which doesn't seem quite in fitting with Rob's plan - one can only assume that Henny wants a smart, tough, professional squad, but also wants to miss the post-season for the next couple of years and have a shot at the top draft picks.

[ChildishGambino]

uhh i'm amazed that people can draft out a players career when he's only 22 years old.....either way Henny is working it so that we can do well in the draft and free agency.....we will have space to offer a max deal....and we will offer a max deal if that's what it takes to get a star here and put butts in the seats......if it's not Harden it will be some other star....personally i would take a chance on Harden because he's young and we can give him time to grow into that number 1 option all while getting a contending team around him....then again i could be wrong....but i just don't see Henny only trying to find a star through the draft i believe he wants a star through free agency as well....basically the difference between taking a chance or having a sure thing

[magicfan4life88]

Why do you guys keep posting these amateur hour videos, all these guys are showing is they can ball up a bunch of nobody's , look how good Dominic sutton looked in those videos everyone posted to but he wasn't ballin with anyone proven, Austin rivers ehhh, John wall mehhh, those will Barton n tony wrotten videos to me show just how garbage they will be in the nba, won't do much if n e of that stuff in the nba, and they also just showed the ignorance and arrogance that belongs in street ball not nba, how many street ballers have been good in the nba? Racer Alston was a rare one

[Bensational]

Not getting the "sign Harden" love at all.

I think he's a fantastic player, but not a max-deal superstar. Right now, he's got all the makings of being a Jason Terry type player (in his ideal role) than a guy who can lead a team by himself.

And let's not forget...

The OKC model is to DRAFT a James Harden.
Not sign one to a max deal.

I agree, although I think you're selling him a little short as a Jason Terry. He's better than that. I'd put him in the Manu Ginobili category. He's going to spend most of his career as an option two or maybe three (depending on the quality of his team-mates, but right now we all know how good his team-mates are), but he will undoubtedly have long stretches, playoff series where he is the big mismatch, maybe even an entire season or two in his prime, where he steps up and puts the team on his back.

All that aside, like I say I agree I don't get the clamouring to sign him, mainly due to the timing. Quality though he is, asking him to be (and paying him to be) the man at this stage probably isn't right for the Magic. It would commit us to long-term salary only a year into our rebuild, which doesn't seem to be the direction our team wants to head. He would also make our team a playoff squad again, which doesn't seem quite in fitting with Rob's plan - one can only assume that Henny wants a smart, tough, professional squad, but also wants to miss the post-season for the next couple of years and have a shot at the top draft picks.

Harden, IMO, is Scottie Pippen in waiting. the perfect complimentary #2 player. just because we sign him first, and that he would be 'the man' by default, i think the team can still plan to try and acquire 'the man' by other means.

fact is, for this team to have a real chance, we're going to need to find a LeBron/Durant/Kobe/Duncan/Shaq/KG/Dirk style difference maker. those guys are few and far between, and it's not always obvious when you've landed one (Dirk and Kobe were both late lottery/mid first picks. Hypothetically, that gives Nicholson just as much chance of being a difference maker - but we won't know for a couple of seasons). we can wait it out and try to tank and get good draft picks, but that really seems to fly in the face of the players Hennigan is putting on the court right now.

"quick rebuild" was most likely just something to placate the fans, but there's every chance the Magic have a plan to do just that. with a solid year of exposure, i wouldn't be surprised to see guys like Vucevic/Harkless/Nicholson play themselves into big value. let's say Vucevic garners Marc Gasol like appreciation around the league. him plus our late lottery pick could be enough to get us a top 5 pick - and land us our legit #1 option.

it will all depend on whether or not Hennigan has someone in mind that he considers capable of that role in the next couple of upcoming drafts, and whether or not we're likely to be able to trade for the draft pick that will land him.

committing salary to Harden wouldn't be a burden as long as every other player is on sensible salary or rookie contracts. we've got 3 years on our current rookies, and adding Harden isn't a guarantee the team becomes an instant middle of the road team. remember, OKC managed to suck enough with Durant to land them the pick for Westbrook.

[Jiwol]

committing salary to Harden wouldn't be a burden as long as every other player is on sensible salary or rookie contracts. we've got 3 years on our current rookies, and adding Harden isn't a guarantee the team becomes an instant middle of the road team. remember, OKC managed to suck enough with Durant to land them the pick for Westbrook.

Good point. Still, I'd be more comfortable if Harden's contract is not maxed out. I'm in "hesitation" camp as far as bringing Harden to Magic is concerned.

[tiderulz]

I get the feeling reading this thread that there are no free agents that will save our franchise. Is that right? It seems like we're hopeless bunch. There may be Harden on the market, maybe not, but outside of that, which NBA borderline all-star or all-star will be joining the Magic in 2014 to bring our team back into the spotlight? I don't see anyone.

i think the thing is to find out what type and position of "budding" star we can get, and then find the right FA to pair him up with. You dont get Harden, if you have a high draft pick and the best player available is a SG also.

So we have the possible development of Nicholson at PF and Harkless at SF. You definitely look at PG, Center and then SG.

I would love if we could get Chicago to bite on TPE for Rip+Teague to develop at PG and their own draft pick. Let them keep Charlottes (it has protection for years) Without Rose, they possibly make the playoffs, but not a high seed if they do, so the pick is late teens to 22 or so.

[RYgoBOOM]

I guess most people either haven't watched Harden play much or just think because he was option #3 he won't be able to get it done with a #1 option workload?

I am ALL for James coming to Orlando. He is only 22 right now and hasn't even touched his prime.

Last year he averaged 49% FG, 39% 3pt, and 85% FT's.....

Not easy to efficiently get 17 ppg and only taking 10 shots a game lol.



This guy is a more athletic and better all around player than Michael Redd was in his prime....with Starter minutes and a team expecting him to produce I could see numbers across the board of

23+ PPG, 5 Apg, 5 rpg and a steal or 2.

All while doing this efficiently as he gets to the line with absolute ease.




Thoughts?

It boils down to gamble on a star 2 guard rookie, or grab a impressive big man and go after the for SURE producer in Harden.

[Hotshot Hower]

Not getting the "sign Harden" love at all.

I think he's a fantastic player, but not a max-deal superstar. Right now, he's got all the makings of being a Jason Terry type player (in his ideal role) than a guy who can lead a team by himself.

And let's not forget...

The OKC model is to DRAFT a James Harden.
Not sign one to a max deal.

Huh?

OKC has two "max" players in Westbrook and Durant along with a $12M/per in Ibaka.
It's about drafting well, then when the times comes, investing/rewarding these players w/ extensions.
(Durant, Westbrook, Ibaka and soon, James Harden)

It's not about scouting/drafting GREAT talent and then not extending them because their demand is too high. It's all contingent on where a team is, if they're primed to compete vs rebuilding. That should be the decider when it comes to making an investment, max or not into a player's caliber such as Harden.

If you draft well, a max signing like this doesn't "cripple" us as most would think. When a roster has more than 1 toxic contract then yes, your theory becomes true. With our roster just about clean (from toxic) and flexible as it is (w/ exception of Turkoglu) this actually makes sense.

[RYgoBOOM]

Top 20 pick take a PG, Sign Harden to max and idolize him in Orlando. Young core of growth...

Imagine..

Kabongo/Miller/Zo brown
Harden
Harkless
Nicholson
Zeller/Noel/Adams/Gobert/Austin

Would give us that "quick rebuild" Martin tried to push. Still be good and gravy in the cap.


Would have a solid bench with whoever we got with the TPE and current bench.



Thoughts?

[Hotshot Hower]

I guess most people either haven't watched Harden play much or just think because he was option #3 he won't be able to get it done with a #1 option workload?

I am ALL for James coming to Orlando. He is only 22 right now and hasn't even touched his prime.

Last year he averaged 49% FG, 39% 3pt, and 85% FT's.....

Not easy to efficiently get 17 ppg and only taking 10 shots a game lol.



This guy is a more athletic and better all around player than Michael Redd was in his prime....with Starter minutes and a team expecting him to produce I could see numbers across the board of

23+ PPG, 5 Apg, 5 rpg and a steal or 2.

All while doing this efficiently as he gets to the line with absolute ease.




Thoughts?

It boils down to gamble on a star 2 guard rookie, or grab a impressive big man and go after the for SURE producer in Harden.

Yes, but without a doubt if Harden played for Orlando ALL these stats increase as well as production and his Per36.

From a stats standpoint is that enough to warrant a "max" deal? Yes, easily.

He'd mean a lot, be a very valuable piece to this team than just being a volume scorer, 2-guard. He'd actually control tempo, create for others, and run offense at times just as he's done on OKC with Westbrook on bench or playing "off-the ball". With his skill set and our current roster, something close to the "max" shouldn't hinder any opinion/decision. If I'm Hennigan, IT has to be DONE.

[RYgoBOOM]

I guess most people either haven't watched Harden play much or just think because he was option #3 he won't be able to get it done with a #1 option workload?

I am ALL for James coming to Orlando. He is only 22 right now and hasn't even touched his prime.

Last year he averaged 49% FG, 39% 3pt, and 85% FT's.....

Not easy to efficiently get 17 ppg and only taking 10 shots a game lol.



This guy is a more athletic and better all around player than Michael Redd was in his prime....with Starter minutes and a team expecting him to produce I could see numbers across the board of

23+ PPG, 5 Apg, 5 rpg and a steal or 2.

All while doing this efficiently as he gets to the line with absolute ease.




Thoughts?

It boils down to gamble on a star 2 guard rookie, or grab a impressive big man and go after the for SURE producer in Harden.

Yes, but without a doubt if Harden played for Orlando ALL these stats increase as well as production and his Per36.

From a stats standpoint is that enough to warrant a "max" deal? Yes, easily.

He'd mean a lot, be a very valuable piece to this team than just being a volume scorer, 2-guard. He'd actually control tempo, create for others, and run offense at times just as he's done on OKC with Westbrook on bench or playing "off-the ball". With his skill set and our current roster, something close to the "max" shouldn't hinder any opinion/decision. If I'm Hennigan, IT has to be DONE.

completely agree.

He says he loves OKC but he will never reach his true potential behind Durant and Westbrick.

He could be the star of a lot of teams, hopefully he decides orlando is that team to do it with

[tiderulz]

well, sorry, but count me in the camp that he isnt a #1 player. And i believe that his stats benefit from playing against backups and 2nd level players for the first half of games. He is still young enough to get better, and hopefully gets better defensively. Not been impressed with his defense, all he seems to do is flop and look for the call.

I also see him as a more intelligent player, not more athletic. If he had dunked the fast break he had in the finals, they would have won that game. Instead, he couldnt and missed the layup. He also is not fast enough to guard the top level SG's and too small to guard most SF's.

he does have a good all around offensive game. He is similar to Iggy in that he can set up other players, though IMO better on offense than Iggy. Just not sure that when defense are setting up to attack him, versus when he plays with WB and KD, that he can continue to produce at such high levels.

[RYgoBOOM]

well, sorry, but count me in the camp that he isnt a #1 player. And i believe that his stats benefit from playing against backups and 2nd level players for the first half of games. He is still young enough to get better, and hopefully gets better defensively. Not been impressed with his defense, all he seems to do is flop and look for the call.

I also see him as a more intelligent player, not more athletic. If he had dunked the fast break he had in the finals, they would have won that game. Instead, he couldnt and missed the layup. He also is not fast enough to guard the top level SG's and too small to guard most SF's.

he does have a good all around offensive game. He is similar to Iggy in that he can set up other players, though IMO better on offense than Iggy. Just not sure that when defense are setting up to attack him, versus when he plays with WB and KD, that he can continue to produce at such high levels.

You must have only watched him in finals games then.


Saying he isn't athletic should be a smack in the face to him.

He changes directions with ease and gets to the line a ton for someone with as minimal touches as him. He dunks over people all the time and finishes above the rim better than most 2 guards I can think of.

I mean if Eric Gordan can be a premier SG than why can't Harden? Harden is way more athletic than Gordan.

And to throw out the stat padding on bad players, he plays the crucial 4th quarter minutes and usually stays in a good amount of games after the 1st Q. He plays against everyone, not just 2nd units all the time. He got 32 mpg last year lol

[tiderulz]

well, sorry, but count me in the camp that he isnt a #1 player. And i believe that his stats benefit from playing against backups and 2nd level players for the first half of games. He is still young enough to get better, and hopefully gets better defensively. Not been impressed with his defense, all he seems to do is flop and look for the call.

I also see him as a more intelligent player, not more athletic. If he had dunked the fast break he had in the finals, they would have won that game. Instead, he couldnt and missed the layup. He also is not fast enough to guard the top level SG's and too small to guard most SF's.

he does have a good all around offensive game. He is similar to Iggy in that he can set up other players, though IMO better on offense than Iggy. Just not sure that when defense are setting up to attack him, versus when he plays with WB and KD, that he can continue to produce at such high levels.

You must have only watched him in finals games then.


Saying he isn't athletic should be a smack in the face to him.

He changes directions with ease and gets to the line a ton for someone with as minimal touches as him. He dunks over people all the time and finishes above the rim better than most 2 guards I can think of.

I mean if Eric Gordan can be a premier SG than why can't Harden? Harden is way more athletic than Gordan.

And to throw out the stat padding on bad players, he plays the crucial 4th quarter minutes and usually stays in a good amount of games after the 1st Q. He plays against everyone, not just 2nd units all the time. He got 32 mpg last year lol

reading comprehension helps. You take the first part of statements, but not the second part.

1 - i didnt say he wasnt athletic, i said he was more smart than athletic.

2-I never mentioned Eric Gordon being a premier SG, never even mentioned him. so I dont know why you brought that up. I would barely consider EG top 10 SG.

3-I said he benefits against 2nd level players in the first half of games. Do you deny that he comes off the bench, usually against the backup SF or SG of opposing teams? I didnt say he only plays against them, just that he benefits in the 1st half against them.

[fendilim]

http://www.740thegame.com/pages/openmik ... e=10356733

Otis knew Dwight was leaving long before...