FIRE WELTMAN

[Rainwater]

They likely planned on Cole being able to play alongside of Black off the bench, but he was unplayable at the beginning of the season.

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I think the plan long term was for Black to start at PG. Every move up to this point seemed to indicate that until this recent pivot in my opinion. Let Fultz go and did not sign a PG. Signed a SG KCP to a short term deal. And I doubt they drafted Black 6th in the draft to be a bench player. I think they were hoping for more but I think they had seen enough to show it wasn’t going to work.

But I wonder what they do with Black if the get perimeter help. Will he come off the bench or will he be traded? I was impressed with him in the playoffs he was very good defensively but if he can’t help on offense it’s a problem.

What's the pivot that indicates they are moving away from AB?

Turning the page on the rebuild was always going to happen this off-season with the cap sheet maturing.

If they are trying to win now, based of what Weltman said, I think they will be moving away from AB as starter idea. I don’t know if they still view him in that role. If they are going to start “to win now” they will have to up grade that PG position with a player that can create and score. Which leads to the question what happens to black? Will they keep playing him off the bench? Will they trade him? If they get Someone like Simons or Herro i don’t think Black will ever get a chance to start. I loved black defensively, he had a great playoffs, I hope they keep him hopefully in a bench role, but his shooting is killing him.

[Rainwater]

They likely planned on Cole being able to play alongside of Black off the bench, but he was unplayable at the beginning of the season.

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I think the plan long term was for Black to start at PG. Every move up to this point seemed to indicate that until this recent pivot in my opinion. Let Fultz go and did not sign a PG. Signed a SG KCP to a short term deal. And I doubt they drafted Black 6th in the draft to be a bench player. I think they were hoping for more but I think they had seen enough to show it wasn’t going to work.

But I wonder what they do with Black if the get perimeter help. Will he come off the bench or will he be traded? I was impressed with him in the playoffs he was very good defensively but if he can’t help on offense it’s a problem.

It means Black will keep improving, and having a ballhandler beside him will help him, too. A veteran Black in a couple of seasons may be able to run the team.

Suggs - KCP
Playmaking guard - Black

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I am basing my assumption on what Weltman said and major changes are coming. If the Magic do go after a point that can score and shoot I don’t think a veteran Black will be leading the team in a couple of years.

[eyriq]

I would definitely not extend him early. If I was ownership I’d be leaning towards an extension, pending how he handles the pivot to win-now. His deadline lethargy, extensions of JI and WCJ, and CoJo starting in the playoffs are huge red flags.

[RichCollab]

I would definitely not extend him early. If I was ownership I’d be leaning towards an extension, pending how he handles the pivot to win-now. His deadline lethargy, extensions of JI and WCJ, and CoJo starting in the playoffs are huge red flags.

Having CoJo being able to step in and handle the role. It actually seems like a genius move. Put in a safe guard that worked.

[Black and Blue]

I'm fine trading both.

Don't have any clue what you could have against Anthony Black. He's objectively good already and he's going into his third season when point guards tend to start breaking out.

I'd say other than people who just enjoy bashing him for your sake...he IS objectively a good player and, unfortunately - as others have said, his redundancies with KCP and Suggs make it sensible that one of them be traded...AB is the least expensive (by a LOT), the youngest, the longest, and (if you really squint your eyes) you can imagine that he still is the likeliest to develop more...so, he's got the most tradable package of the 3.

Suggs, with his new contract and his new potentially chronic knee issue, is far and away the best of the three, on both ends, but his negatives are also greater. KCP is truly a finishing piece for a contender...I've tried to sell him as a vet leader, with championship pedigree (since thats how he was sold to us by Weltman)...but I haven't seen any visible signs of intangibles and leadership. Maybe it's there, but certainly not to the extent that "forgettable" acqisition Joe Ingles displayed it....point being KCP is the least valuable of the 3, by a lot, but he still may have his mystique around the league as a winner.

My long-winded as usual point is that anybody sane can see that AB is a good player (argue position later) with value...so, suggesting he's tradable is a compliment, in this case, not the usual "Trade Cole - I don't want to see him in a Magic uni" goofy rants.

Fantastic post, Skybox, and I couldn’t have said anything better.

I think AB is going to be brought up a LOT in trade discussions this summer and it may be tempting to deal him if the player returning is of a high caliber. The fans don’t want to acknowledge it, but unless Weltman is a wizard (unlikely), turning over much of the roster will require us to part with actual players of value. AB’s contract and ceiling make him one of our most attractive trade chips.

Obviously I’d prefer to keep AB, but if we can do the unthinkable and actually get Paolo a facilitator PG, it may require trading him along with one or both of our picks.

One player I would kill to acquire is Ja Morant. He would immediately vault us into contender status and I’d think hard about giving up AB, our 2025 picks, non core players (to make the salaries work), and future picks to make it happen.

[Skin]

I'm fine trading both.

Don't have any clue what you could have against Anthony Black. He's objectively good already and he's going into his third season when point guards tend to start breaking out.

I'd say other than people who just enjoy bashing him for your sake...he IS objectively a good player and, unfortunately - as others have said, his redundancies with KCP and Suggs make it sensible that one of them be traded...AB is the least expensive (by a LOT), the youngest, the longest, and (if you really squint your eyes) you can imagine that he still is the likeliest to develop more...so, he's got the most tradable package of the 3.

Suggs, with his new contract and his new potentially chronic knee issue, is far and away the best of the three, on both ends, but his negatives are also greater. KCP is truly a finishing piece for a contender...I've tried to sell him as a vet leader, with championship pedigree (since thats how he was sold to us by Weltman)...but I haven't seen any visible signs of intangibles and leadership. Maybe it's there, but certainly not to the extent that "forgettable" acqisition Joe Ingles displayed it....point being KCP is the least valuable of the 3, by a lot, but he still may have his mystique around the league as a winner.

My long-winded as usual point is that anybody sane can see that AB is a good player (argue position later) with value...so, suggesting he's tradable is a compliment, in this case, not the usual "Trade Cole - I don't want to see him in a Magic uni" goofy rants.

eyriq is not objective when it comes to defending Black. You're exactly right. He still has some decent trade value and that is a credit to him. He's not a bad player. Just a bad fit for us.

We have to reshuffle the deck and that starts at his position, PG. That is not a biased opinion.

[Skybox]

Don't have any clue what you could have against Anthony Black. He's objectively good already and he's going into his third season when point guards tend to start breaking out.

I'd say other than people who just enjoy bashing him for your sake...he IS objectively a good player and, unfortunately - as others have said, his redundancies with KCP and Suggs make it sensible that one of them be traded...AB is the least expensive (by a LOT), the youngest, the longest, and (if you really squint your eyes) you can imagine that he still is the likeliest to develop more...so, he's got the most tradable package of the 3.

Suggs, with his new contract and his new potentially chronic knee issue, is far and away the best of the three, on both ends, but his negatives are also greater. KCP is truly a finishing piece for a contender...I've tried to sell him as a vet leader, with championship pedigree (since thats how he was sold to us by Weltman)...but I haven't seen any visible signs of intangibles and leadership. Maybe it's there, but certainly not to the extent that "forgettable" acqisition Joe Ingles displayed it....point being KCP is the least valuable of the 3, by a lot, but he still may have his mystique around the league as a winner.

My long-winded as usual point is that anybody sane can see that AB is a good player (argue position later) with value...so, suggesting he's tradable is a compliment, in this case, not the usual "Trade Cole - I don't want to see him in a Magic uni" goofy rants.

Fantastic post, Skybox, and I couldn’t have said anything better.

I think AB is going to be brought up a LOT in trade discussions this summer and it may be tempting to deal him if the player returning is of a high caliber. The fans don’t want to acknowledge it, but unless Weltman is a wizard (unlikely), turning over much of the roster will require us to part with actual players of value. AB’s contract and ceiling make him one of our most attractive trade chips.

Obviously I’d prefer to keep AB, but if we can do the unthinkable and actually get Paolo a facilitator PG, it may require trading him along with one or both of our picks.

One player I would kill to acquire is Ja Morant. He would immediately vault us into contender status and I’d think hard about giving up AB, our 2025 picks, non core players (to make the salaries work), and future picks to make it happen.

Thanks and I also would love to get Ja.

I really don't care what the advanced analytics crowd says...it's as asinine as the "Sengun is better than Paolo" stuff going on elsewhere. IF you have Paolo, Franz, Ja, and Suggs...you ARE a nasty, fearsome contender as long as nobody is injured or suspended...and you're must-see TV, which would be nice for ORL for a change.

[Black and Blue]

I'd say other than people who just enjoy bashing him for your sake...he IS objectively a good player and, unfortunately - as others have said, his redundancies with KCP and Suggs make it sensible that one of them be traded...AB is the least expensive (by a LOT), the youngest, the longest, and (if you really squint your eyes) you can imagine that he still is the likeliest to develop more...so, he's got the most tradable package of the 3.

Suggs, with his new contract and his new potentially chronic knee issue, is far and away the best of the three, on both ends, but his negatives are also greater. KCP is truly a finishing piece for a contender...I've tried to sell him as a vet leader, with championship pedigree (since thats how he was sold to us by Weltman)...but I haven't seen any visible signs of intangibles and leadership. Maybe it's there, but certainly not to the extent that "forgettable" acqisition Joe Ingles displayed it....point being KCP is the least valuable of the 3, by a lot, but he still may have his mystique around the league as a winner.

My long-winded as usual point is that anybody sane can see that AB is a good player (argue position later) with value...so, suggesting he's tradable is a compliment, in this case, not the usual "Trade Cole - I don't want to see him in a Magic uni" goofy rants.

Fantastic post, Skybox, and I couldn’t have said anything better.

I think AB is going to be brought up a LOT in trade discussions this summer and it may be tempting to deal him if the player returning is of a high caliber. The fans don’t want to acknowledge it, but unless Weltman is a wizard (unlikely), turning over much of the roster will require us to part with actual players of value. AB’s contract and ceiling make him one of our most attractive trade chips.

Obviously I’d prefer to keep AB, but if we can do the unthinkable and actually get Paolo a facilitator PG, it may require trading him along with one or both of our picks.

One player I would kill to acquire is Ja Morant. He would immediately vault us into contender status and I’d think hard about giving up AB, our 2025 picks, non core players (to make the salaries work), and future picks to make it happen.

Thanks and I also would love to get Ja.

I really don't care what the advanced analytics crowd says...it's as asinine as the "Sengun is better than Paolo" stuff going on elsewhere. IF you have Paolo, Franz, Ja, and Suggs...you ARE a nasty, fearsome contender as long as nobody is injured or suspended...and you're must-see TV, which would be nice for ORL for a change.

Absolutely. Someone told me AB and Suggs for Ja works in a trade machine (haven’t had a chance to verify), but I could see that being something mutually beneficial for both sides if the Grizzlies are ready to shuffle their roster. Magic fans probably will disagree with me and say that is too much to give up, but they forget that Ja would instantly become a contender for our top player and that doesn’t come cheap.

These are the types of gigantic swings I really hope Weltman is considering. I worry he is thinking a mild upgrade over Cory Joseph will somehow put us over the top, when the reality is this team’s offense is far too broken for small tweaks.

I’ll go another step and say if we are stuck with KCP, his defense does help offset a loss of Suggs if that’s what is needed to improve the roster. Not entirely of course, but it helps.

[Rainwater]

Fantastic post, Skybox, and I couldn’t have said anything better.

I think AB is going to be brought up a LOT in trade discussions this summer and it may be tempting to deal him if the player returning is of a high caliber. The fans don’t want to acknowledge it, but unless Weltman is a wizard (unlikely), turning over much of the roster will require us to part with actual players of value. AB’s contract and ceiling make him one of our most attractive trade chips.

Obviously I’d prefer to keep AB, but if we can do the unthinkable and actually get Paolo a facilitator PG, it may require trading him along with one or both of our picks.

One player I would kill to acquire is Ja Morant. He would immediately vault us into contender status and I’d think hard about giving up AB, our 2025 picks, non core players (to make the salaries work), and future picks to make it happen.

Thanks and I also would love to get Ja.

I really don't care what the advanced analytics crowd says...it's as asinine as the "Sengun is better than Paolo" stuff going on elsewhere. IF you have Paolo, Franz, Ja, and Suggs...you ARE a nasty, fearsome contender as long as nobody is injured or suspended...and you're must-see TV, which would be nice for ORL for a change.

Absolutely. Someone told me AB and Suggs for Ja works in a trade machine (haven’t had a chance to verify), but I could see that being something mutually beneficial for both sides if the Grizzlies are ready to shuffle their roster. Magic fans probably will disagree with me and say that is too much to give up, but they forget that Ja would instantly become a contender for our top player and that doesn’t come cheap.

These are the types of gigantic swings I really hope Weltman is considering. I worry he is thinking a mild upgrade over Cory Joseph will somehow put us over the top, when the reality is this team’s offense is far too broken for small tweaks.

I’ll go another step and say if we are stuck with KCP, his defense does help offset a loss of Suggs if that’s what is needed to improve the roster. Not entirely of course, but it helps.

I really don’t think Ja is available

[basketballRob]

The only bad thing about getting Ja or Ball is that we'd be led by 3 inefficient players. Paolo and Franz aren't efficient.

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[J-Mezzy]

Ja is inefficient
Injury prone
A bit of a head case
And doesn’t improve our shooting problems

I’d go elsewhere if it was up to me

[cedric76]

Ja is inefficient
Injury prone
A bit of a head case
And doesn’t improve our shooting problems

I’d go elsewhere if it was up to me

Head case ? One of the smartest guy on this team

[J-Mezzy]

Ja is inefficient
Injury prone
A bit of a head case
And doesn’t improve our shooting problems

I’d go elsewhere if it was up to me

Head case ? One of the smartest guy on this team

Yeah it’s not like he’s been suspended for moronic behavior and even last season made it a point to clown the league with his celebrations despite of his past

[89Magicfan]

Ja is inefficient
Injury prone
A bit of a head case
And doesn’t improve our shooting problems

I’d go elsewhere if it was up to me

Head case ? One of the smartest guy on this team

Yeah it’s not like he’s been suspended for moronic behavior and even last season made it a point to clown the league with his celebrations despite of his past

I can name about a dozen other NBA players that do the same celebration.

[J-Mezzy]

Head case ? One of the smartest guy on this team

Yeah it’s not like he’s been suspended for moronic behavior and even last season made it a point to clown the league with his celebrations despite of his past

I can name about a dozen other NBA players that do the same celebration.

Not with his history and who have been warned to stop.

[89Magicfan]

Yeah it’s not like he’s been suspended for moronic behavior and even last season made it a point to clown the league with his celebrations despite of his past

I can name about a dozen other NBA players that do the same celebration.

Not with his history and who have been warned to stop.

He needs to grow up for sure. I think a big issue is who’s around him.

That being said many NBA players have the same mindset it’s just he’s so damn good and the NBA hates it when guys that talented act a fool. They come down harder because he’s a marketable talent .

[The-Stallion70]

Time for Jeffy to go and time to bring a GM who knows that three point shooting is the way to go in the NBA today.

I don't believe the Magic can return to contention unless we bring in some real sharpshooters.

[cedric76]

Time for Jeffy to go and time to bring a GM who knows that three point shooting is the way to go in the NBA today.

I don't believe the Magic can return to contention unless we bring in some real sharpshooters.

Floor spacers incoming

[fendilim]

No way we touch Ja, imo. Maybe Desmond Bane instead.

[Skybox]

No way we touch Ja, imo. Maybe Desmond Bane instead.

Bane is a better Suggs...but much more expensive. It's also quite possible that Suggs exceeds Bane next year...It's just a matter of volume 3's connecting at 40% (which Suggs has shown he is capable of doing- only once but...). He's already a more impactful defender than Bane - who is very good too.

Given our payroll already - no way, imo.