Official Speculation Thread (Pt.LXI Countdown To Preseason)

[Reverse_Angle]

Henny killed the Magic board. With Otis, we always had something to discuss at all times, whether it is the playoffs or the off-season.

FIRE HENNY!

[Driguez]

Henny killed the Magic board. With Otis, we always had something to discuss at all times, whether it is the playoffs or the off-season.

FIRE HENNY!

Funny that after Otis (and Dwight for that matter) were gone there are no more "insiders" leaking out info.

[rcklsscognition]

Henny said over the weekend that Oladipo will play PG and Harkless has been told to expect minutes as the SG. Sounds to me like harkless is our new 6th man.

Gonna be nice to have a 6'9" SG.

[The Real Dalic]

The season is just around the corner and it still feels like it's still a long ways away. Even with the playoffs for Baseball coming up and the Dolphins starting the season 2-0, I need my Magic fix.

Especially excited to see Oladipo and the progress of all of our young players (specifically Harris and Harkless).

[The Real Dalic]

Henny said over the weekend that Oladipo will play PG and Harkless has been told to expect minutes as the SG. Sounds to me like harkless is our new 6th man.

Gonna be nice to have a 6'9" SG.

This sounds more like he wants to start him at SG to me. I don't think he would need to play any SG if he doesn't start.

[Neon1]

Henny said over the weekend that Oladipo will play PG and Harkless has been told to expect minutes as the SG. Sounds to me like harkless is our new 6th man.

Gonna be nice to have a 6'9" SG.

This sounds more like he wants to start him at SG to me. I don't think he would need to play any SG if he doesn't start.

Harkless isn't going start over Afflalo unless he has made massive gains since summer league. IMO the only chance he has of starting (without significant improvements) is if Harris is playing PF until Baby is healthy.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Did anyone expect Dipo to run the PG as well as he did in summer league? He improved at it with every game he played. It was expected to be an unmitigated disaster, but he actually ran it better than some other rookie true PG's and was maybe the best player to lace up his sneakers that week. Not saying he is definitely our future at PG. Who knows really? My only point is the dude is a baller.

i don't think he ran pg well at all.....he brought the ball up the court and attacked the basket. He wasn't out there setting up plays and executing. Sure he found guys off the bounce but thats no different than what jameer does now which most of you say make him a nontraditional pg.

If he's stays the course I think he's what myself and a few others had said pre draft and that is he's a secondary ball handler in the half court like harden.


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it was summer league with guys that have never and will never make the nba. How many plays did you think they really knew, so that he could get into them?

Yeah I guess "running plays" in SL can be taken with a grain of salt but he also played with and against guys that have made and will make the NBA although SL isn't the end all.....but on that note how can anyone say he played PG well? I think he's definately better at certain skills than anyone expected and he'll probably continue to grow into that role but to me he looked like a shooting guard given the job of bringing the ball up court.

[OrlDave]

Henny said over the weekend that Oladipo will play PG and Harkless has been told to expect minutes as the SG. Sounds to me like harkless is our new 6th man.

Gonna be nice to have a 6'9" SG.

This just adds to the evidence that Dipo is our future PG. Otherwise Afflalo + Dipo would make having Hark play SG fairly pointless.

[BadMofoPimp]

Harkless stated they expect him to spend "some" minutes at SG and Oladipo has been told that he will spend "some" minutes at PG. Thus, they will be playing more than one position.

Plus, O'Quinn has stated that Harkless is going surprise people this year as he has made massive improvements this summer.

Evidently, all the young guys been working together on and off the court since 2 weeks after regular season ended.

When you consider the fact that Harris bulked up and lost baby fat with Oladipo showing some brilliance while Vucevic has been working non-stop this offseason, then there is no reason not to be excited.

This team is going to surprise and will be a improvement over last year even if the Magic traded Afflalo, BBD and Meer!

[Neon1]

Harkless stated they expect him to spend "some" minutes at SG and Oladipo has been told that he will spend "some" minutes at PG. Thus, they will be playing more than one position.

Plus, O'Quinn has stated that Harkless is going surprise people this year as he has made massive improvements this summer.

Evidently, all the young guys been working together on and off the court since 2 weeks after regular season ended.

When you consider the fact that Harris bulked up and lost baby fat with Oladipo showing some brilliance while Vucevic has been working non-stop this offseason, then there is no reason not to be excited.

This team is going to surprise and will be a improvement over last year even if the Magic traded Afflalo, BBD and Meer!

It says "more sg" not "some sg".

"Orlando has made it clear that Oladipo will be playing PG and Harkless told me that the coaches told him he'll be playing MORE SG this year." - Alex Kennedy

[BadMofoPimp]

Harkless stated they expect him to spend "some" minutes at SG and Oladipo has been told that he will spend "some" minutes at PG. Thus, they will be playing more than one position.

Plus, O'Quinn has stated that Harkless is going surprise people this year as he has made massive improvements this summer.

Evidently, all the young guys been working together on and off the court since 2 weeks after regular season ended.

When you consider the fact that Harris bulked up and lost baby fat with Oladipo showing some brilliance while Vucevic has been working non-stop this offseason, then there is no reason not to be excited.

This team is going to surprise and will be a improvement over last year even if the Magic traded Afflalo, BBD and Meer!

It says "more sg" not "some sg".

"Orlando has made it clear that Oladipo will be playing PG and Harkless told me that the coaches told him he'll be playing MORE SG this year." - Alex Kennedy

This just comes down to semantics. He could have meant "More" than last year or some more. It is all how we, the consumer interprets it. But, I doubt with Dipo and Afflalo on this team that it means anything more than 5-15mpg at SG unless Afflalo is traded, then a little more, but not much with Moore and Deron on this team.

[Blue_and_Whte]

Since I feel like we have beat the harkless talks to death this offseason, I won't even go there. The question I have for you is, based on what will Harris "max out" at 17 and 6? He was 18 and 8 during his time with the magic last year... Thats from the time he got traded here until the end of the season... So he has surpassed this max that you set out for him already, at the age of 20.

I'll give you an example of this... That's like me saying harkless will max out at 7 and 3, when he averaged 8 and 4 last year.

I just want to know what you are basing your assumption off of, because to me they are both on an even playing field. Neither one has an advantage over the other that would change their numbers drastically, yet you are so high on harkless, but could care less for Harris... Don't get me wrong, to me it doesn't matter which one beasts because they are both on my team. I want both of them to be hall of famers lol...

there are always players that are removed out of an unfavorable situation like Harris onto a new team and play with a chip on their shoulder. In addition to that nobody really knows what they can do so they take the league "by storm" so to speak.

Take Lin for example, a casual fan would've thought this kid was well on his way to becoming a HOF, then teams adjusted, reality set in and now he's hit his ceiling. Basically everyone went bananas over a third tier pg.

If a player gets an opportunity where he's really the best option at any position, with no competition and that player is good enough, then they'll look fantastic. I think Harris was averaging 18 and 7 in 26 games while being given the green light to do whatever he wants. in those 26 games he matched his per almost identically which is great but mot an indicator that hes going to be an elite player. Harris is a good player but I think he has a lower ceiling than people think.

Harkless to me isn't that far behind Harris in terms of offense. People harp about his 27% 3pt shooting when comparing the two players failing to recognize that Harris is only shooting it at a 31% clip. Defensively Harkless is better IMO and think there's a reason he was guarding the opposing teams best players.

I thought he showed significant improvement in areas I thought would take longer to develop he essentially was given the same opportunity Harris was given, I agree with you, but I thought he developed at a faster rate where as Harris matched his pers both on the NBA level and collegiate level.

That's not to say Harkless is going to be a elite player either, I just feel he has a higher ceiling that Harris and that they're a lot closer than people think.


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you cant really compare lin's sitaution to harris'... also lin had a good 10 game stretch... he came back to earth after that stretch, once teams got scouting reports on him. harris' game doesnt consist strictly of line drives to the basket, if you take that away, he can hit the mid range jumper, and has enough of a handle to create his own shot. as for "taking the league by storm" tobias had 27 games... it usually takes teams ~10 games to catch on to the player... this wasnt a fluke thats gonna be easy to guard (as evidenced by his career per 36).

Lin didn't have a "good 10 game stretch" he had a good 26 game stretch which ultimately came to an end due to a coaching change and a meniscus injury.

Undoubtedly the facts surounding the two players are different but I don't see how you can't compare the two given the similarities. The fact is that they both got an opportunity which they took advantage of and displayed their abilities which were much more than anticipated. There also isn't a predetermined "10 games" it takes teams to adjust as there are other factors in place such as the team the player is playing on and the system he's playing in. As stated above the Knicks fired D'Antoni and hired Woodson who ran less PnR and more isolation obviously making Lin less effective being a PnR PG. Harris is a scorer, so naturally playing on a rebuilding team where you can stand to make mistakes without getting pulled benefits him.

...while i agree that harris may have been given the green light, it doeesnt change the fact that he was CONSISTENTLY iced out by nelson and/or afflalo, and even udrih when jameer went down. its not like he was putting up these numbers while he was chucking the ball every which way. he put up the numbers on a very efficient TS%.

I dont see the same conspiracy everyone else does with regards to the vets purposely "icing him out". The obvious effect of having scorers on the floor is that he'd get less attempts and there's nothing wrong with that. Again, people have this notion that our "young players" are entitled to all the shots so they can "develop". The vets dont need to defer to him while he's on the court and he'll have to deal with that until they're moved.

you compared harkless to harris on offense, and said that harkless isnt that far behind harris. you then cited the 4% difference from the 3 point line. you failed to mention that harkless almost exclusivley shot from the short corner 3. when comparing both players' 3 point percentages from the regular distance 3, harris shot 32.9% on the year (not just with us), and harkless shot 24.3 on the year... THAT is a huge difference

So now the type of three he's making matters? The FACT is that Harkless came into the league WITHOUT a 3PT shot and developed one so to me that was a plus while showing work ethic and potential. Also I didn't compare them as a whole offensively, i think right now Harris is the more well rounded scorer, it is MY OPINION that Harkless will close the gap and they will be similar in terms of what you get out of them on that side of the ball.Not that they score the same way.

You also never mentioned ball handling skills, since that is offense. Harris got into the lane using his handle, and often times dumped the ball off for nik or AN for an easy finish at the rim. harkless simply cannot handle the ball. he never has been able to. not in high school, not in college. meanwhile harris has been a point forward his entire career (high school, college, pros). harkless jumpshot mechanics also suggest that he is strictly a spot up shooter, due to the fact that it takes him a long time to get his shot off, another reason i dont ever see him as the paul geroge/tracy mcgrady some of you guys have labeled him as.

I've mentioned ball handling on a number of occassions in previous posts. A number of people(analysts/writers) have commented on how much better, more confident, and aggressive Harkless looked SL, not to mention the simple eye test disproves that he "simplay cant handle the ball". That being said Harris is a better ball handler and maybe Harkless will never be as crafty but to say he simply cant handle the ball can be proven wrong when you watch clips of SL..Hell, last year I saw with my own two eyes on a number of occassions scoring off the dribble.

finally, you say harkless is a better defensive player than harris. defensive ratings suggest that they are exactly the same. ill keep it at exactly the same, though personally, i feel that harris is slightly better, which is not to say that harkless doesnt wind up a better defender because he certainly has the physical tools for it.
when it's all said and done, and this isnt fair to do to either player, but i expect their best statistical years to go something like this:

Harris:
22 ppg, 8 rpg, 3 apg, 1.3 bpg, 1.0 spg

Harkless:
14 ppg, 7 rpg, 2 apg, 1.4 bpg, 1.1 spg

I say hands down he'll be a better defender. Harris imo is going to struggle guarding SF's full time but we'll have to wait and see. I can get down with those averages although I think Harris' are a little high, and harkless is going to average more steals. I'll assume "when its all said and done." to mean when Davis, Afflalo, and possible Jameer are moved. I think at that point we'll have players who are similar in terms of production.

[OrlDave]

Harkless stated they expect him to spend "some" minutes at SG and Oladipo has been told that he will spend "some" minutes at PG. Thus, they will be playing more than one position.

Plus, O'Quinn has stated that Harkless is going surprise people this year as he has made massive improvements this summer.

Evidently, all the young guys been working together on and off the court since 2 weeks after regular season ended.

When you consider the fact that Harris bulked up and lost baby fat with Oladipo showing some brilliance while Vucevic has been working non-stop this offseason, then there is no reason not to be excited.

This team is going to surprise and will be a improvement over last year even if the Magic traded Afflalo, BBD and Meer!

It says "more sg" not "some sg".

"Orlando has made it clear that Oladipo will be playing PG and Harkless told me that the coaches told him he'll be playing MORE SG this year." - Alex Kennedy

This just comes down to semantics. He could have meant "More" than last year or some more. It is all how we, the consumer interprets it. But, I doubt with Dipo and Afflalo on this team that it means anything more than 5-15mpg at SG unless Afflalo is traded, then a little more, but not much with Moore and Deron on this team.

True, but I just think the signs are pointing towards Dipo at PG long-term. Now it might not work out and that's fine, but I think Henningan / Vaughn have at least the hope for a Dipo/Harkless/Harris back-court. I also guarantee we'll see that some even with Nelson and Afflalo healthy.

edit: left out not.

[BadMofoPimp]

This just comes down to semantics. He could have meant "More" than last year or some more. It is all how we, the consumer interprets it. But, I doubt with Dipo and Afflalo on this team that it means anything more than 5-15mpg at SG unless Afflalo is traded, then a little more, but not much with Moore and Deron on this team.

True, but I just think the signs are pointing towards Dipo at PG long-term. Now it might work out and that's fine, but I think Henningan / Vaughn have at least the hope for a Dipo/Harkless/Harris back-court. I also guarantee we'll see that some even with Nelson and Afflalo healthy.

I hope so. Since last season I have been saying Harkless would be nice at SG with his defense and length.

[thelead]

Henny said over the weekend that Oladipo will play PG and Harkless has been told to expect minutes as the SG. Sounds to me like harkless is our new 6th man.

Gonna be nice to have a 6'9" SG.

I gotta see what Harkless looks like this year. I was all for him at sg last year but depending on how much he grew and bulked up, he may have locked himself into the sf position for the most part. We shall see.

[InFlames]

So we will see a lineup of Vuc/Nicholson/Harris/Oladipo/Harkless some. That should be fun to watch.

[tiderulz]

Yeah I guess "running plays" in SL can be taken with a grain of salt but he also played with and against guys that have made and will make the NBA although SL isn't the end all.....but on that note how can anyone say he played PG well? I think he's definately better at certain skills than anyone expected and he'll probably continue to grow into that role but to me he looked like a shooting guard given the job of bringing the ball up court.

ok, i can agree with that

[Neon1]

So now the type of three he's making matters? The FACT is that Harkless came into the league WITHOUT a 3PT shot and developed one so to me that was a plus while showing work ethic and potential. Also I didn't compare them as a whole offensively, i think right now Harris is the more well rounded scorer, it is MY OPINION that Harkless will close the gap and they will be similar in terms of what you get out of them on that side of the ball.Not that they score the same way.

It ABSOLUTELY matters, Is this serious? You cannot compare shooting almost strictly wide open spot up short corner threes to threes that come off screens in catch and shoots, pull up threes off the bounce from ALL OVER the court and three point line (including top wing and top center threes at the much further distances).

It's not even remotely close to the same shooting ability.

Its the mistake people make when just simply looking and comparing at raw base stats and percentages without analyzing.

Guys point to players like Tracy McGrady shooting sub-30 percentages on threes his first couple years without looking at what type and where the shots came from, t-mac was shooting from legit NBA three range and was getting them off from every angle and defense.

Moe shot 27% WIDE OPEN almost EXCLUSIVELY from the short corners , there is a major major difference there.

[rcklsscognition]

Henny said over the weekend that Oladipo will play PG and Harkless has been told to expect minutes as the SG. Sounds to me like harkless is our new 6th man.

Gonna be nice to have a 6'9" SG.

I gotta see what Harkless looks like this year. I was all for him at sg last year but depending on how much he grew and bulked up, he may have locked himself into the sf position for the most part. We shall see.

You can watch vids of him training from a week or two ago. He grew an inch. Didn't really add much weight, just normal offseason progression type stuff.

I'm thinking

Nelson/Oladipo/Moore
Afflalo/Harkless/Oladipo
Harris/Harkless/Osby
Davis/Nicholson/Osby
Vucevic/Maxiell/Davis

MPG
28/16/4
32/14/2
36/10/2
32/14/2
36/10/2

[thelead]

Henny said over the weekend that Oladipo will play PG and Harkless has been told to expect minutes as the SG. Sounds to me like harkless is our new 6th man.

Gonna be nice to have a 6'9" SG.

I gotta see what Harkless looks like this year. I was all for him at sg last year but depending on how much he grew and bulked up, he may have locked himself into the sf position for the most part. We shall see.

You can watch vids of him training from a week or two ago. He grew an inch. Didn't really add much weight, just normal offseason progression type stuff.

I'm thinking

Nelson/Oladipo/Moore
Afflalo/Harkless/Oladipo
Harris/Harkless/Osby
Davis/Nicholson/Osby
Vucevic/Maxiell/Davis

MPG
28/16/4
32/14/2
36/10/2
32/14/2
36/10/2

There is no way Oladipo plays less than 20 mpg unless he is complete garbage; and even then, I'm not so sure he only gets 18mpg.