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Official Summer 2024 Magic Free Agency and Trade Ideas Thread 3.0

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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#561 » by meatwad4343 » Fri Feb 9, 2024 10:38 pm

MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
Bergmaniac wrote:
MartinsIzAfraud wrote:
BINGOOOOO idk how many more times you, me & MagicMatic can say the same thing. He's going to get a 1+1 deal for like 20-25M and we're going to basically run it all back with probably 1 more minor FA signing ala Ingles.

Unless his TOS situation drastically improves in the next two months and he starts shooting at least as well as he did last season there is no way in hell he is getting such a contract or anything close to it. He has made a total of 3 shots outside of 16 feet all season and is currently averaging 8.8/3.7/3.2 on horrible scoring efficiency (51 TS%). He is also hasn't gotten to the line at all in two thirds of his games this season despite almost all of his shot attempts being in the paint.


The aging dad bod of Joe Ingles got 1+1 22M.. Fultz will get something like that from our archaic FO.


I've seen this movie before, I hope I'm wrong but I'm getting Dwight vibes from this front office. Feels like they are not going to be able to put a good team around Paulo and he's going to end up walking when he gets the chance. If this front office is actually dumb enough to re sign fultz and run this squad back as is we don't deserve to have any star level players here
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Re: Official 2023-2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 - Nothing is Happening 

Post#562 » by RookieStar » Fri Feb 9, 2024 11:24 pm

What im thinking is...

This squad wildly played beyong our wildest expectations at best or slightly better than our exepcted at worst.

They must think we are crazy for breaking up something that is working better than expected at their projected timeline.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#563 » by Knightro » Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:23 am

Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think Trae Young's defensive effort has pretty clearly improved this season. He's never gonna be a stopper, but he's not as god awful as he used to be.

If he requests out this summer, the Magic really should pursue him.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#564 » by eyriq » Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:26 am

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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#565 » by KillMonger » Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:29 am

“Our fans know what we’re doing and hopefully they like what we’re doing,” Weltman said. “The reason that we’re a few games over .500 right now is because we have good, young players. It’s paramount for us to allow them to develop.

“We have to give them the opportunity to grow and the opportunity to really experience what a playoff drive is all about. It’s going to change them, make them better, make them more serious and give them a layer of understanding that you just can’t have unless you go through it. For us to push our team maybe a game or two further with a temporary fix just doesn’t make sense to the big picture of what we’re trying to do.”

While the majority of teams in the East made moves to address certain needs, Weltman didn’t feel added pressure to get a trade done because, he said, “We know what our own timeline is.”

this man must feel he has a lifetime contract....no rush

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2024/02/09/orlando-magic-jeff-weltman-nba-trade-deadline-chicago-bulls-jamahl-mosley/
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#566 » by eyriq » Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:33 am

KillMonger wrote:
“Our fans know what we’re doing and hopefully they like what we’re doing,” Weltman said. “The reason that we’re a few games over .500 right now is because we have good, young players. It’s paramount for us to allow them to develop.

“We have to give them the opportunity to grow and the opportunity to really experience what a playoff drive is all about. It’s going to change them, make them better, make them more serious and give them a layer of understanding that you just can’t have unless you go through it. For us to push our team maybe a game or two further with a temporary fix just doesn’t make sense to the big picture of what we’re trying to do.”

While the majority of teams in the East made moves to address certain needs, Weltman didn’t feel added pressure to get a trade done because, he said, “We know what our own timeline is.”

this man must feel he has a lifetime contract....no rush

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2024/02/09/orlando-magic-jeff-weltman-nba-trade-deadline-chicago-bulls-jamahl-mosley/
What's your read on this? He must be talking about providing high usage roles to Franz and Paolo and a 3rd option role to Suggs, because AB is getting DNP-CDs like a mf'er
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#567 » by thelead » Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:33 am

Knightro wrote:Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think Trae Young's defensive effort has pretty clearly improved this season. He's never gonna be a stopper, but he's not as god awful as he used to be.

If he requests out this summer, the Magic really should pursue him.

I dunno... was thinking that I want nothing to do with him while watching him tonight. He is undoubtedly a gifted scorer but he pounds the air out the rock, takes bad shots, and gets hunted on defense.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take him for 'reasonable' trade but there is no way I would take him over, let's say, someone like Mitchell. I sure as hell wouldn't trade 5 picks + other assets for him.

Give me Murray instead.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#568 » by eyriq » Sat Feb 10, 2024 2:35 am

thelead wrote:
Knightro wrote:Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think Trae Young's defensive effort has pretty clearly improved this season. He's never gonna be a stopper, but he's not as god awful as he used to be.

If he requests out this summer, the Magic really should pursue him.

I dunno... was thinking that I want nothing to do with him while watching him tonight. He is undoubtedly a gifted scorer but he pounds the air out the rock, takes bad shots, and gets hunted on defense.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take him for 'reasonable' trade but there is no way I would take him over, let's say, someone like Mitchell. I sure as hell wouldn't trade 5 picks + other assets for him.

Give me Murray instead.
Bill Simmons has Suggs 69, Trae 51, Franz 30, and Paolo 8 in his trade value ranking.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#569 » by KillMonger » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:00 am

eyriq wrote:
KillMonger wrote:
“Our fans know what we’re doing and hopefully they like what we’re doing,” Weltman said. “The reason that we’re a few games over .500 right now is because we have good, young players. It’s paramount for us to allow them to develop.

“We have to give them the opportunity to grow and the opportunity to really experience what a playoff drive is all about. It’s going to change them, make them better, make them more serious and give them a layer of understanding that you just can’t have unless you go through it. For us to push our team maybe a game or two further with a temporary fix just doesn’t make sense to the big picture of what we’re trying to do.”

While the majority of teams in the East made moves to address certain needs, Weltman didn’t feel added pressure to get a trade done because, he said, “We know what our own timeline is.”

this man must feel he has a lifetime contract....no rush

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/2024/02/09/orlando-magic-jeff-weltman-nba-trade-deadline-chicago-bulls-jamahl-mosley/
What's your read on this? He must be talking about providing high usage roles to Franz and Paolo and a 3rd option role to Suggs, because AB is getting DNP-CDs like a mf'er

confused....what development is he talking about? who could he be referring to? couldn't be paolo or franz they're already getting minutes and high usage....suggs as well....are the front office and coaching staff on the same page?
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#570 » by FFBlitzace » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:15 am

Paolo may have made the ASG in his second year, but he's still a developing player. As are Franz and Suggs. To a lesser extent, Cole and WCJ too. I know fans really, really wanted a trade, but there really isn't anything untrue about what Weltman said there. Except for being dead wrong about fans being happy lol.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#571 » by Skin » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:21 am

thelead wrote:
Knightro wrote:Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think Trae Young's defensive effort has pretty clearly improved this season. He's never gonna be a stopper, but he's not as god awful as he used to be.

If he requests out this summer, the Magic really should pursue him.

I dunno... was thinking that I want nothing to do with him while watching him tonight. He is undoubtedly a gifted scorer but he pounds the air out the rock, takes bad shots, and gets hunted on defense.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take him for 'reasonable' trade but there is no way I would take him over, let's say, someone like Mitchell. I sure as hell wouldn't trade 5 picks + other assets for him.

Give me Murray instead.

I favor Dejounte more too. I'm still upset that we didn't get him, but I'm moving onto our inferior options in the draft I guess.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#572 » by Knightro » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:31 am

Young is better than Dejounte by a significant margin. Kind of surprised that's even a thing.

Young, to me, is unquestionably a top 20 NBA player. Murray's like a top 50 NBA player.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#573 » by Skybox » Sat Feb 10, 2024 3:52 am

Skin wrote:
thelead wrote:
Knightro wrote:Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think Trae Young's defensive effort has pretty clearly improved this season. He's never gonna be a stopper, but he's not as god awful as he used to be.

If he requests out this summer, the Magic really should pursue him.

I dunno... was thinking that I want nothing to do with him while watching him tonight. He is undoubtedly a gifted scorer but he pounds the air out the rock, takes bad shots, and gets hunted on defense.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take him for 'reasonable' trade but there is no way I would take him over, let's say, someone like Mitchell. I sure as hell wouldn't trade 5 picks + other assets for him.

Give me Murray instead.

I favor Dejounte more too. I'm still upset that we didn't get him, but I'm moving onto our inferior options in the draft I guess.


Murray would give Mosley the defensive pair of tigers he wants at point of attack. Trae’s a better player but Murray’s fit would be better. I admire Trae’s game…but he’s SO ball-dominant. I bristled at some people’s suggestion that Simons would “take away shots” from Paolo & Franz…but Trae really would. He’s just not playing with a Point Forward (let alone two). The Murray experiment failed miserably because Trae won’t play off-ball, won’t move or cut or decoy. He’s an amazing player but only on his terms. Luka - same deal…all-world, but Franz & Paolo better learn to catch lobs and spot- up 3’s if he wants in.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#574 » by zaymon » Sat Feb 10, 2024 6:17 am

FFBlitzace wrote:Paolo may have made the ASG in his second year, but he's still a developing player. As are Franz and Suggs. To a lesser extent, Cole and WCJ too. I know fans really, really wanted a trade, but there really isn't anything untrue about what Weltman said there. Except for being dead wrong about fans being happy lol.


Some fans like me are maybe not happy, but understanding what they are doing. I think we should have upgraded point guard position, but if price for Murray was too high i wouldnt compromise much of our future assets for him. With Jones we all know he would be a short term fix and we can get him in the summer.

Big picture i think they are disciplined and know what the goal is. What they do and what they say fpr years is coherent. If we assume that they think the window will open next season at the earliest, not making a move now is not a mistake. It also shows they want to hold assets for big game hunting. I am all for that.

About development Badmofo wrote it the best. Its not only about creating the perfect environment but also, and propably more important, improving by solving harder and harder problems. Best players improve the most when you challenge them with impossible tasks. Look at Detroid but also look at Jordan carrier. Look at Lebron carrier. They got their ass whooped at the beginning.
Playing with Fultz creates a lot of problems and makes winning games harder than necessary, but do we not watch films where hero trains with ankle and wrist weights ?
Personally i would sacrifice some of the difficulty to get to 6th seed at least. We would still propably lose, but we would also have more games to learn. Question is what was the price to do that.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#575 » by KillMonger » Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:08 am

Weaver on Hayes: "It never worked with his shooting. The guy can really defend and we’ve seen his playmaking ability, but if you’re a guard in this league you have to make shots … that’s ultimately why he wasn’t as successful as he needed to be. Shooting is paramount."
~troy weaver on cutting killian hayes~

hmmm...sounds familiar.....we got a player that....never mind.....but it's refreshing to hear a gm actually be up front and transparent about something....meanwhile our front office is engaged in espionage....even towards their own fans, no one knows anything....no timelines for specific injuries when it's just a run of the mill occurrence in professional sports with no need for secrecy
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#576 » by SOUL » Sat Feb 10, 2024 7:54 am

zaymon wrote:Some fans like me are maybe not happy, but understanding what they are doing. I think we should have upgraded point guard position, but if price for Murray was too high i wouldnt compromise much of our future assets for him. With Jones we all know he would be a short term fix and we can get him in the summer.

Big picture i think they are disciplined and know what the goal is. What they do and what they say fpr years is coherent. If we assume that they think the window will open next season at the earliest, not making a move now is not a mistake. It also shows they want to hold assets for big game hunting. I am all for that.

About development Badmofo wrote it the best. Its not only about creating the perfect environment but also, and propably more important, improving by solving harder and harder problems. Best players improve the most when you challenge them with impossible tasks. Look at Detroid but also look at Jordan carrier. Look at Lebron carrier. They got their ass whooped at the beginning.
Playing with Fultz creates a lot of problems and makes winning games harder than necessary, but do we not watch films where hero trains with ankle and wrist weights ?
Personally i would sacrifice some of the difficulty to get to 6th seed at least. We would still propably lose, but we would also have more games to learn. Question is what was the price to do that.


I think this is one of those seasons that people will look back on and feel like they should've just enjoyed more and not freaked out over. The years ahead of this and behind us are/were much more important, hitting on guys like Paolo and Franz and getting Suggs to be a useful guy on every playoff team, potentially getting a working Isaac again, etc.

I don't blame anybody that is wary of the FO not making the correct moves going forward, they don't seem proactive and thus it's hard to feel like they're going to do the right thing moving forward. They might be right, we'll see. But...

There's a lot of "ifs" and assumptions, and a lot of "I bet we'll re-sign Fultz" or "I don't think we'll do anything major in the offseason with trades or signings" - well, none of that has happened yet. For now, our cap situation looks good, we haven't really re-signed anybody to crippling contracts (Cole sucks right now, but him playing even a little worse than his first month is fine for that pay), and WCJ is on a very nice deal.

Other than that, the other biggest complain is "We're winning, but not with the players I want to win with" as if you can swap every player 1 for 1 and not have any difference at all in terms of W-L. I too have players I'd rather see us win with, but I don't think it would be a consistently great lineup until a few years from now and leave us worse in the short-term.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#577 » by Knightro » Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:40 am

SOUL wrote:Other than that, the other biggest complain is "We're winning, but not with the players I want to win with" as if you can swap every player 1 for 1 and not have any difference at all in terms of W-L. I too have players I'd rather see us win with, but I don't think it would be a consistently great lineup until a few years from now and leave us worse in the short-term.


I just don’t think it’s this. At least not from me.

It’s more like “we’re ultimately not going to win *enough* with the veterans we have to justify keeping them, but those veterans are also playing ahead of the young guys who probably aren’t ready or going to be ready to fill their shoes largely because they’re not playing. So there’s gonna be difficult decisions to be made in the near future that we don’t trust the front office to make.”

If the Magic win 45 games this year, I don’t see a realistic path to 50+ next year outside of one of Paolo or Franz leveling up to the point where their quality of teammate matters less and less. And that seems like such a passive way to approaching things.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#578 » by GelbeWand09 » Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:46 am

thelead wrote:
Knightro wrote:Unpopular opinion maybe, but I think Trae Young's defensive effort has pretty clearly improved this season. He's never gonna be a stopper, but he's not as god awful as he used to be.

If he requests out this summer, the Magic really should pursue him.

I dunno... was thinking that I want nothing to do with him while watching him tonight. He is undoubtedly a gifted scorer but he pounds the air out the rock, takes bad shots, and gets hunted on defense.

Don't get me wrong, I'd take him for 'reasonable' trade but there is no way I would take him over, let's say, someone like Mitchell. I sure as hell wouldn't trade 5 picks + other assets for him.

Give me Murray instead.


I'm not sure about this. I mean Trae is the much more impactful player by any advanced stat than Murray, despite Trae's defense but his offensive impact (despite low FG%) is off the charts every year. Murray doesnt made any team better yet he played for. Atlanta is better without him, both seasons so far.

Trae is a worlds better passer, much better getting to the line & got much much more gravity. If the difference getting them is like 1 First round pick, than the value of Trae heavily exceeds Murray's.

Trae is the (much) better player & the only reason many peolpe say the opposite, is because Trae is so unlikable. Biggest question for me is usage & fit. Can Trae adjust to lower usage & how effects his impact? What does it mean for Paolo & Franz?
Theoretically Murray is the better fit, because better defender (despite being super overrated on that side) & less ball dominant.

Personalitywise both seem to be a bit of headcases & unlikable.

I hesitate to empty our draft chest for both of them. Because i dont know if Trae can adjust & how it effects him & i dont trust Murrays impact at all. But prefer Trae because i know i get a top 6-8 offensive player, who won't lose much value if it doesnt work out.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#579 » by SOUL » Sat Feb 10, 2024 9:58 am

Knightro wrote:It’s more like “we’re ultimately not going to win *enough* with the veterans we have to justify keeping them, but those veterans are also playing ahead of the young guys who probably aren’t ready or going to be ready to fill their shoes largely because they’re not playing. So there’s gonna be difficult decisions to be made in the near future that we don’t trust the front office to make.”

If the Magic win 45 games this year, I don’t see a realistic path to 50+ next year outside of one of Paolo or Franz leveling up to the point where their quality of teammate matters less and less. And that seems like such a passive way to approaching things.


This is probably the least worrying thing to me tbh - the path seems REALLY obvious: Internal improvement, no major injuries, signing or trading for an impact guard, letting some of our meh vets go and replacing them with Jett/AB, or even including one of them in a trade package if it makes sense, maybe making a tough decision with Cole or WCJ too.

The CONFIDENCE in our FO to do this is something everybody should fairly question, the means to get there feels very much attainable and they've positioned themselves in a spot to do so - waiting for them to "stick the landing" of this next part is going to be what's up for debate and challenged, no argument from me there, but major missteps because of wrong actions like trading Tobias for peanuts, the Oladipo/Sabonis trade, bad drafting decisions, is quite a bit different from hitting on very important draft picks and not upgrading worse vets with slightly better vets. Inaction, in this current season, is far from the worst outcome.. but it can be just as bad as the wrong actions if we're doing it the next season(s) too.

The hardest thing in the NBA is probably having a sustained 50+ win team so I don't think us as posters should be putting the cart before the horse as much as we do when it comes to assumptions. In fact, playing more vets and playing better in the short-term breeds more fans clamoring for action and improvement. If this was another year to play the kids, it can give them the easiest excuse to continue kicking the can down the road.

This sort of reminds me of that 2006-2007 Magic team before Rashard was signed, 40 win team (we're probably a bit better), but let's be real, we were only ever going as far as Dwight improved while the rest of the guys played their part. Getting the "right" guys over the next 3-4 seasons were important, but it's like people tripping out about Bogans or Dooling or something when there's pretty simple answers in what we need to do to get better.
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Re: Official Summer 2024 Magic Trade Ideas Thread 3.0 

Post#580 » by p0peye » Sat Feb 10, 2024 10:04 am

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