Official Offseason Thread 9.0: The Long Road to October

[Skybox]

Calvin Booth referred to "overlap" as the "silent killer". We still have too much overlap. Moe and Cole can't defend, pick one. Harris and KCP are 3&D spot up shooters, pick one. What other overlap is there?

Suggs is no different than KCP until he proves otherwise. I'm really excited about Suggs - but I'll feel a LOT more confident in his growth after he repeats his 40% from 3 season and shows it's not a fluke...lots of worse things to be "redundant" at than these two killers, but they are (so far ) essentially the same player.

Black, thus far, is a smaller Isaac...solid defender who will hit an occasional open 3

If Franz and Paolo don't up their 3pt efficiency, they are a bit redundant in the way they tend to attack the defense...NOT a problem to lose sleep over, in itself, but it does require adapting the rest of the lineup to complement them (with shooters).

Jett and Houstan are virtually identical...assuming Jett shows he's an NBA player this year. Hopefully, he's got more in his bag.

2 of a lot of things but still lacking one big role player who can run an offense off the bench...maybe it's CoJo or Cole this season.

Jett and Houstan are very different players.

Agree with pretty.much all of the rest tho.

I hope so...but what are you basing that on? Houstan could go make a splash in the G League too. I really hope Jett's in the rotation and, of course, impactful.

[jezzerinho]

Jett has a bag of sorts. He can shoot off movement, he's run the odd pick and roll set. He can get downhill, if he has a lane.

Houstan is a C&S guy with tolerable team defence. Hair trigger release but little else.

[T-Cat]

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[drsd]

Suggs is no different than KCP until he proves otherwise.

The Magic's starting back court guards WILL keep opponents from scoring and will hit a lot of three-balls. And what else?


I totally agree that Suggs and Caldwell-Pope are accessories the Magic offense. That's just how it is.

The offense will be run through F-Wagner and Banchero will get most of the handle time.

That said: I think Suggs and Caldwell-Pope floating on the perimeter for three-balls will transform the offense. I am excited.

[drsd]

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[drsd]

Jett and Houstan are virtually identical...assuming Jett shows he's an NBA player this year. Hopefully, he's got more in his bag.

Being a Debbie downer here: I am not convinced that Howard or Houstan are NBA level talents.

[eyriq]

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[sk8wrulz]

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Not downplaying Franz, but 17ppg back then is different from 17ppg today. Scoring is up, average ppg of teams is also up.

[eyriq]

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Not downplaying Franz, but 17ppg back then is different from 17ppg today. Scoring is up, average ppg of teams is also up.

Pace of the two teams were pretty similar.

[RookieStar]

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Not downplaying Franz, but 17ppg back then is different from 17ppg today. Scoring is up, average ppg of teams is also up.

Pace of the two teams were pretty similar.

Im more of thinking that Franz averages that as he 2nd option while Dirk... I forgot, what year he became the 1st option for the Mavs.

[drsd]

Nowitzki was an MVP level talent in his third year. F-Wagner is not a top-25 guy in his third, and is probably not a top-50 player.

EDIT: if one wants a thought experiment here, then comparing Banchero to Nowitzki makes more sense. For me the question on F-Wagner is, "can he develop as the next Toni Kukoč?"

[drsd]

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[pepe1991]

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Not downplaying Franz, but 17ppg back then is different from 17ppg today. Scoring is up, average ppg of teams is also up.

Pace of the two teams were pretty similar.

Eh.

21,8 ppg in 2000-01 made dirk 18th best scorer
19,7 ppg makes Franz 41# in scoring.

On top of that, in 2000-01, only 25 players averaged at least 20,00 ppg. Last year 38 different players ( under nba. com criteria, in reality - 50 different players ) averaged 20,00 ppg.

Dirk that year was also:
top 20 in rebounds
7th best player in real plus minus
all nba 3rd team
best player on team that went to second round and won 53 games


As for pace, average ppg this year was 114,2, in 2001 it was 94,8. But that's not all, just look at breakdown of points scored between those two teams:

130 or more points: Dallas 0 times, Magic 4 times
120-125 points : Dallas 2 times, Magic 10 times
110-115 poinst : Dallas 19 times, Magic 22 times


sub 100 points scored:
Dallas: 36 times
Magic: 14 times


But here is crazy kicker. Dallas was 4th best offense ( and pretty much couldn't dump 120 + points on nobody) , Magic are literally worst offense to go to playoffs - and had 14 very high scoring games ( 17% of games played total) , on other side, due how offense was played, Dallas ,despite being elite offense, in near 50% of games couldn't even put 100 points on board.

It's just different brand of basketball, games today, just like stats, are pretty much impossible to compare to past eras.
Like, let's stick for 2001 for a second, VIctor Wembanyama as a rookie already had better numbers than 2# in voting that year- TIm Duncan. I love me some Victor, but Duncan was one of the best bigs of all time.
Stats mean jack s*** nowdays

[drsd]

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[eyriq]

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[pepe1991]

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They probably won't, i assume they have some verbal agreement where he and his camp want max or whatever, and Weltman won't give him that ( nor should), so Suggs will be betting on himself as PG/SG /combo guard and test market. He will be RFA, Magic will probably match any offer anyhow.




But having 3 players on max contract is suicide in modern nba.

[drsd]

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He’s a RFA. Not worried about it. He’s a huge part of this teams success moving forward and will be matched.

[jezzerinho]

I might be going 2+2=5 here, but since KCP was signed I have believed it was a message to Suggs and his representation.

Not that the FO wants to replace him. Not that they don't care whether the Suggs/KCP combo works.

But it's a gun to Suggs head in terms of what position he sees himself at. Maybe the extension conversation was "if you were a PG for sure, maybe we'd be having the near-max conversation, but you haven't shown that". Suggs insists he's a PG and the FO signs KCP and says "OK PG, go earn yourself a contract".

[Bensational]

I might be going 2+2=5 here, but since KCP was signed I have believed it was a message to Suggs and his representation.

Not that the FO wants to replace him. Not that they don't care whether the Suggs/KCP combo works.

But it's a gun to Suggs head in terms of what position he sees himself at. Maybe the extension conversation was "if you were a PG for sure, maybe we'd be having the near-max conversation, but you haven't shown that". Suggs insists he's a PG and the FO signs KCP and says "OK PG, go earn yourself a contract".

That’s pretty close to my guess - Suggs wants that max-level deal but he knows he needs to show another gear offensively to get close. There’s a financial ceiling to him being an elite 3&D guy. So now KCP is here to ease the pressure for him on the defensive end and give him room for more energy and increased role on offense.

And I’d say that was a factor in free agency too, and why we didn’t chase bigger offensive contributors - because we wanted to give the guys in-house some more room to show what they’ve got.