The Tobias Harris Situation

[BadWolf]

realism is hiding today

[tiderulz]

I'd be interested in this trade:

OKC gets: Tobias Harris, Moe Harkless, Andrew Nicholson

ORL get: Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nk3r3qw

I want to keep Tobias, but my ultimate role for him is as a super 6th man. If I can replace that, I'm good. We have a big need at back up PG and Reggie Jackson is a super 6th man for OKC. He would compliment our backcourt amazingly as he can play some SG as well. He's also a RFA. But making the trade now would give us the advantage in being able to match offers. I can see him taking the $8M per year that we offered Tobias last summer.

Lamb gives us SF depth to the departed Harris. Gives us range that Gordon is currently working on. ...and PJ3 can give depth with his arsenal of unused and under-appreciated skills.

PG Elfrid Payton / Reggie Jackson
SG Victor Oladipo / Evan Fournier
SF Aaron Gordon / Jeremy Lamb
PF Myles Turner or Karl Towns / Kyle O'Quinn / Perry Jones
C Nikola Vucevic / Dewayne Dedmon

OKC's bench really struggled to carry the load when Westbrook and Durant were out earlier in the year. Having a legitimate scorer like Harris would be a huge get for them. Lamb hardly cracks their rotation these days. A swap a scenery between him and Harkless might help them both out... and PJ3 is their victory cigar like AN is ours.

Jackson wants a starting spot. He wont be happy coming here to be a 6th man. He has said so publicly. and Lamb is not good, like Moe, he has had his opportunities to play and shine and has not done so.

[Def Swami]

We can't afford to let him walk for nothing this off-season and I'd be shocked if we do; to lose him as an asset would be a setback. I'm sure we'll do our due diligence at the trade deadline, but I think we'll have a hard time finding suitors who can take their chance at him in free agency this summer; they'd basically be trading assets simply for the right to match.

It only takes one team to bind us into matching a max contract for Harris, and I think he'll have enough suitors to push us there. I'm already prepared for the $63 million/4 years contract some team is going to offer him. I feel okay matching that; I can rationalize the deal to myself. He's 22 years old and playing with pretty good efficiency in an offense that has no rhyme or reason. He has room to improve, has the character to do so, and could benefit by playing under a better coach in the future. And as mentioned before, he could be used in a future trade as well.

yeah... i wouldn't be too keen on matching that.

i wouldn't let him walk, but finding someone to take him off your hands at over $15M a season is gonna be hard, unless he finds a way to step up into the 20ppg stratosphere.

trading him before the deadline this season works because he can be moved for cheap, and teams taking him on will know that they'll get him for another 4 years at least (even if they have to pay for it). i'm just not sure what players are out there that would be suitable as a return. i wouldn't bother speculating, either, given Henny always finds players i've never even heard of. Vuc, Tobias, Fournier. I'm sure any player coming back in a Tobias trade would be equally unheard of.

So I'm guessing you'd cut your losses and let Harris walk if given the Gordon Hayward deal? I understand that take as well and it's topics like this that make me glad I'm not the GM. I'm no cap guru but I'm under the assumption we could afford that contract in the short term since our other "core" players won't be seeking contracts or extensions until a few more years down the road. The downfall is (again, assuming) it further limits us in having flexibility in free agency. The question, as you've posed, is should we continue to grow as a team and add more W's to the column with Harris (and does he add to that to begin with is another question as well), or sacrifice a few wins in the near future and continue to develop Gordon.

Personally, I'd like to see both Harris and Gordon share the forward spots in the near future. They complement each other so well and Gordon can help guard 4's and switch pick n' rolls easily with Harris. If we're not going to attain a PF who can protect the rim without also killing our offense, then we should see what we have in that forward combination (but Vaughn).

Regarding players we could trade for, I was actually on the John Henson bandwagon until Larry Sanders went crazy. Henson was buried on their bench, but has since then been pretty good for the Bucks. He's not exactly a guy who can stretch the floor, but he's a proven shot blocker and rebounder. Gorgui Dieng is another player of similar build I'd like to take a look at.

[BCS]

I'd be interested in this trade:

OKC gets: Tobias Harris, Moe Harkless, Andrew Nicholson

ORL get: Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones

why don't we go for the guy we really want?

BKN gets: Tobias + Perkins

OKC gets: Lopez + AN + B.Gordon

ORL gets: Ibaka


Brooklyn get a legit young stud to start rebuilding around.

Oklahoma get a legit big man who can anchor a defense and score well on the other end. They also get AN, whom they were rumoured to have coveted in that draft.

Orlando gets our rim protecting, 3 point shooting big man.

That said, I'm not 100% sold on Ibaka being the answer. I remember reading somewhere that his blocks are misleading and that he's not as much of a defensive presence as those numbers would imply. But, still...

As much as I would love this, OKC is not trading Ibaka, that trade would make them a worse team in my opinion as well, they have no need for BG and who would play the 4 for them?

OKC might be happier with some1 like Frye or Garnett to take Ibaka's spot, let them choose who they want. Because of defense they'd prolly want Garnett but that desperately puts them in a win now mode. Anyways, Ibaka is part of their core and I don't believe he will be traded.

In my opinion the best trade partners for Harris would be teams in a similar position to us with young players rebuilding. Sixers, Celtics, even the Suns because of their young group of players. We are not getting same value but maybe we can get better fit which I believe is what we really need now.

[Skin]

I'd be interested in this trade:

OKC gets: Tobias Harris, Moe Harkless, Andrew Nicholson

ORL get: Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones

http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=nk3r3qw

I want to keep Tobias, but my ultimate role for him is as a super 6th man. If I can replace that, I'm good. We have a big need at back up PG and Reggie Jackson is a super 6th man for OKC. He would compliment our backcourt amazingly as he can play some SG as well. He's also a RFA. But making the trade now would give us the advantage in being able to match offers. I can see him taking the $8M per year that we offered Tobias last summer.

Lamb gives us SF depth to the departed Harris. Gives us range that Gordon is currently working on. ...and PJ3 can give depth with his arsenal of unused and under-appreciated skills.

PG Elfrid Payton / Reggie Jackson
SG Victor Oladipo / Evan Fournier
SF Aaron Gordon / Jeremy Lamb
PF Myles Turner or Karl Towns / Kyle O'Quinn / Perry Jones
C Nikola Vucevic / Dewayne Dedmon

OKC's bench really struggled to carry the load when Westbrook and Durant were out earlier in the year. Having a legitimate scorer like Harris would be a huge get for them. Lamb hardly cracks their rotation these days. A swap a scenery between him and Harkless might help them both out... and PJ3 is their victory cigar like AN is ours.

Jackson wants a starting spot. He wont be happy coming here to be a 6th man. He has said so publicly. and Lamb is not good, like Moe, he has had his opportunities to play and shine and has not done so.

That's what any player would say. Isaiah Thomas wanted that last year. But he ended up taking the money instead. Jackson would take the money first too. That's what players want in their 2nd contract. $$$. Being a RFA gives us the ability to match any contract he would get. His price tag will be cheaper than what Harris wants, making him a better use of our money. Once under contract he'll be a good soldier as long as he get minutes. With his versatility there is enough to go around. Best of all, I think he would really help us do one very important thing... WIN.

[cedric76]

I'd be interested in this trade:

OKC gets: Tobias Harris, Moe Harkless, Andrew Nicholson

ORL get: Reggie Jackson, Jeremy Lamb, Perry Jones

why don't we go for the guy we really want?

BKN gets: Tobias + Perkins

OKC gets: Lopez + AN + B.Gordon

ORL gets: Ibaka


Brooklyn get a legit young stud to start rebuilding around.

Oklahoma get a legit big man who can anchor a defense and score well on the other end. They also get AN, whom they were rumoured to have coveted in that draft.

Orlando gets our rim protecting, 3 point shooting big man.

That said, I'm not 100% sold on Ibaka being the answer. I remember reading somewhere that his blocks are misleading and that he's not as much of a defensive presence as those numbers would imply. But, still...

looks great for okc lol
Maybe we can get K D if we add ridnour

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[ChiefWiggumz]

That's what any player would say. Isaiah Thomas wanted that last year. But he ended up taking the money instead. Jackson would take the money first too. That's what players want in their 2nd contract. $$$. Being a RFA gives us the ability to match any contract he would get. His price tag will be cheaper than what Harris wants, making him a better use of our money. Once under contract he'll be a good soldier as long as he get minutes. With his versatility there is enough to go around. Best of all, I think he would really help us do one very important thing... WIN.

But why spend money to fill an area that is not of importance right now?

Our G rotation is actually one of our strengths right now.

We have a glaring hole in our rim protection...so Reggie Jackson is the answer? lol

There have been a lot of ideas thrown around here which are alright in theory. Some players mentioned are:

Ibaka - Why would OKC trade their best big man for Tobias, who plays the same position as KD? OKC need more big men, not less.

Kevin Love - We get it. People love Kevin Love. He is a great player but not in the team we are building. We need a rim protecting, athletic, tough big man. Kevin Love is a stretch 4 that can rebound well.

Aldridge - He is peaking right now, almost 30, due for surgery, and seems to love it in Portland.

It will be hard to find a perfect fit in a trade scenario.

I think Boogie Cousins would be perfect. I think he can play the PF fine and guard the teams best big man as well.

Harris, Harkless, Nicholson, Future pick for Boogie.

A guy who has been openly critical about the Kings' front office.

Elfrid/Seth Curry?
Dipo/Fournier
Gordon/Marble
Cousins/Frye
Vuc/KOQ



We could make a championship run after a few years of them building chemistry.

[TreasureCoast]

Can Cousins co-exist with Vuc though? Im not so sure, it sounds good though. And I love his game and attitude, we would have 2 of the top 5 big men and a really strong backcourt.

[VoiceOReason]

They have gay would they want Harris?

[Skin]

That's what any player would say. Isaiah Thomas wanted that last year. But he ended up taking the money instead. Jackson would take the money first too. That's what players want in their 2nd contract. $$$. Being a RFA gives us the ability to match any contract he would get. His price tag will be cheaper than what Harris wants, making him a better use of our money. Once under contract he'll be a good soldier as long as he get minutes. With his versatility there is enough to go around. Best of all, I think he would really help us do one very important thing... WIN.

But why spend money to fill an area that is not of importance right now?

Our G rotation is actually one of our strengths right now.

We have a glaring hole in our rim protection...so Reggie Jackson is the answer? lol

There have been a lot of ideas thrown around here which are alright in theory. Some players mentioned are:

Ibaka - Why would OKC trade their best big man for Tobias, who plays the same position as KD? OKC need more big men, not less.

Kevin Love - We get it. People love Kevin Love. He is a great player but not in the team we are building. We need a rim protecting, athletic, tough big man. Kevin Love is a stretch 4 that can rebound well.

Aldridge - He is peaking right now, almost 30, due for surgery, and seems to love it in Portland.

It will be hard to find a perfect fit in a trade scenario.

I think Boogie Cousins would be perfect. I think he can play the PF fine and guard the teams best big man as well.

Harris, Harkless, Nicholson, Future pick for Boogie.

A guy who has been openly critical about the Kings' front office.

Elfrid/Seth Curry?
Dipo/Fournier
Gordon/Marble
Cousins/Frye
Vuc/KOQ



We could make a championship run after a few years of them building chemistry.

Our backup PG situation sucks. I mean you have a non-NBA player in your line up behind Elfrid.

I don't think you read my post because it obviously addresses PF through the draft. NOT via trade using Harris.

And even imagining that trade for Boogie would get you banned if you posted that idea in the Kings forum. It's laughable. You know that right?

[Bensational]

We can't afford to let him walk for nothing this off-season and I'd be shocked if we do; to lose him as an asset would be a setback. I'm sure we'll do our due diligence at the trade deadline, but I think we'll have a hard time finding suitors who can take their chance at him in free agency this summer; they'd basically be trading assets simply for the right to match.

It only takes one team to bind us into matching a max contract for Harris, and I think he'll have enough suitors to push us there. I'm already prepared for the $63 million/4 years contract some team is going to offer him. I feel okay matching that; I can rationalize the deal to myself. He's 22 years old and playing with pretty good efficiency in an offense that has no rhyme or reason. He has room to improve, has the character to do so, and could benefit by playing under a better coach in the future. And as mentioned before, he could be used in a future trade as well.

yeah... i wouldn't be too keen on matching that.

i wouldn't let him walk, but finding someone to take him off your hands at over $15M a season is gonna be hard, unless he finds a way to step up into the 20ppg stratosphere.

trading him before the deadline this season works because he can be moved for cheap, and teams taking him on will know that they'll get him for another 4 years at least (even if they have to pay for it). i'm just not sure what players are out there that would be suitable as a return. i wouldn't bother speculating, either, given Henny always finds players i've never even heard of. Vuc, Tobias, Fournier. I'm sure any player coming back in a Tobias trade would be equally unheard of.

So I'm guessing you'd cut your losses and let Harris walk if given the Gordon Hayward deal? I understand that take as well and it's topics like this that make me glad I'm not the GM. I'm no cap guru but I'm under the assumption we could afford that contract in the short term since our other "core" players won't be seeking contracts or extensions until a few more years down the road. The downfall is (again, assuming) it further limits us in having flexibility in free agency. The question, as you've posed, is should we continue to grow as a team and add more W's to the column with Harris (and does he add to that to begin with is another question as well), or sacrifice a few wins in the near future and continue to develop Gordon.

Personally, I'd like to see both Harris and Gordon share the forward spots in the near future. They complement each other so well and Gordon can help guard 4's and switch pick n' rolls easily with Harris. If we're not going to attain a PF who can protect the rim without also killing our offense, then we should see what we have in that forward combination (but Vaughn).

Regarding players we could trade for, I was actually on the John Henson bandwagon until Larry Sanders went crazy. Henson was buried on their bench, but has since then been pretty good for the Bucks. He's not exactly a guy who can stretch the floor, but he's a proven shot blocker and rebounder. Gorgui Dieng is another player of similar build I'd like to take a look at.

nah, i definitely wouldn't cut losses. i'm all for retaining assets no matter what. even if it meant re-signing Harris and all we could get in return was a future 1st and an expiring, i'd be happy with that.

i'm with you that the Harris/Gordon combo needs to be thoroughly tested, but this season. i'd like us to have a full evaluation on the matter by the end of the season, especially before assigning big dollars to Harris.

Dieng and Henson would be worth a look. Other guys i'd be interested in would be Mirotic, Ilyasova, Jeff Withey and Adreian Payne. But they're not all exclusively options we'd have to give up Harris for. We might still be able to get them for cheap.

[VoiceOReason]

So if henny doesn't want to spend on Harris:

Mkg& vonelh for Tobias ridnour harkless

Ryno,ajinca, &1st for Frye and Tobias

Amir Johnson,Bruno cabcio,&1st for Tobias,a.nNicholson &harkless

Otto porter, seraphin, Webster& 1st, for Tobias , harkless, a.Nicholson

I don't know just spit balling here and keeping in mind it could be a half year rental for the other team...and trying to use the henny thought process of obtaining a underutilized player that could blossom..

Still not saying I wouldn't try and keep Tobias...but was just looking at what could be out there

[BadWolf]

I take it back, you don't value harris low. Cousins and Iblocka is a nice return

[jgosche]

To me it feels like it would be a step backwards to not resign Harris. This team is very young and already starting to look better at times, I think we really just need a new coach, maybe draft a PF, and some time. But outside of that, I think we pretty much have the pieces we need. Unless there's someone we could reasonably get for Harris' money, and I haven't heard any decent ideas yet, I think it would be best to sign him long term even if we have to slightly overpay. Talent of his caliber is not easy to come by.

[Bensational]

I take it back, you don't value harris low. Cousins and Iblocka is a nice return

quit sniping from the shadows and throw out some other suggestions then. where would you value him?

Ibaka isn't a superstar by any stretch of the imagination. you see how good OKC were this season without Durant and Westbrook? They were 4-11, which is worse than us. Ibaka is a glorified role player. He's certainly valuable to a team, but he's not the kind of difference maker you want as your 3rd option.

i don't know who said DMC but that's unrealistic unless the guy is demanding a trade.

but if someone suggested any less than that you're just gonna say we're undervaluing him. so you set the standard then. tell us what Tobias is worth?

[eyriq]

Vucevic nor Harris were never going to be franchise talent BUT are good enough to be the Z-Bo, Bogut, etc type player that comes in and ices the cake. Except we don't need to fish them out of the free agent pool since we developed them. Oladipo is on his second year and Gordon his first, so those two (plus Payton) can be our Curry and Thompson and Vucevic/Harris our Bogut. If Oladipo isn't our franchise guy it sets us back a year and if Gordon or Payton strike out we're set back another year but we've always got this years tanktastic pick compliments of Vaughn. If we strike out in the draft again I think we hit the treadmill and get stuck in mediocrity with Hennigan getting canned and us blowing it up for rebuild take two.

So, this years team not being more competitive tells me that Vucevic and Harris are not franchise type talents and that next year would be the year we make the jump if Oladipo continues to progress into stardom.

So yah, keep Harris.

[MellowRose]

I'm going to wait and see what happens once we get to see a lineup of Payton / Oladio / Gordon / Harris / Vucevic.
I really think that lineup can do some damage, but of course it's going to take eternity to see that lineup play significant minutes, thanks to JV.

[Viper1500]

So if henny doesn't want to spend on Harris:

Mkg& vonelh for Tobias ridnour harkless

Ryno,ajinca, &1st for Frye and Tobias

Amir Johnson,Bruno cabcio,&1st for Tobias,a.nNicholson &harkless

Otto porter, seraphin, Webster& 1st, for Tobias , harkless, a.Nicholson

I don't know just spit balling here and keeping in mind it could be a half year rental for the other team...and trying to use the henny thought process of obtaining a underutilized player that could blossom..

Still not saying I wouldn't try and keep Tobias...but was just looking at what could be out there

These are much more realistic trades in terms of value.

Ibaka or Cousins for an expiring and a couple scrubs, what????

[gumbyr24]

It all really depends on his attitude going forward. Does he want to be here? Or is he stuck on NY??
Letting him walk isn't an option..
If he wants to be here, we give the man his money.
If he doesn't want to be here, we match is offer anyway, and try to rob the Knicks.
Some combination of future 1st's, or pick swaps plus them taking Frye.

Okafor
Tobias
Melo
THJR
Scrub

super soft, terrible defensively. The picks could have very good value.

Let's let the Knicks do for us, what Brooklyn did for Boston/ATL

you can't do s&t's anymore, can you?

Hmm I thought you couldn't do a S&T only if it put either team over the cap..
If i'm wrong, then we sign him and look to trade him later.
I don't think he's the type to pout and tank his value, but who knows,
he may have the diva gene.
Would you be content with this type of trade?
Or would you look to trade him somewhere else?

[gumbyr24]

I haven't even thought about trading him this year.. but it might not be a bad idea.
If you attach him to one of Frye, O'Quinn, or Nicholson, I like the different possibilities
of what we can back in return.