The case for Jonathan Isaac

[BadMofoPimp]

That's fine, but your comparison of Isaac made me puke in my mouth! I wasn't trying to troll, just like you weren't trying to find a good comparison.

The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.

I'm not the only one who knows you occasionally troll. Look a few posts up. I don't see you whining to PennytoShaq.

Compared to everytime you reply to one of my posts as a trolling post, if I do troll, it is a helluva lot less than you do. FYI. If you cannot debate, don't reply.

[Nemesis21]

The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.

I'm not the only one who knows you occasionally troll. Look a few posts up. I don't see you whining to PennytoShaq.

Compared to everytime you reply to one of my posts as a trolling post, if I do troll, it is a helluva lot less than you do. FYI. If you cannot debate, don't reply.

Not true.

[BadMofoPimp]

I'm not the only one who knows you occasionally troll. Look a few posts up. I don't see you whining to PennytoShaq.

Compared to everytime you reply to one of my posts as a trolling post, if I do troll, it is a helluva lot less than you do. FYI. If you cannot debate, don't reply.

Not true.

Ok, most of the time!

[Skin]

Just trying to show that DSJ has a higher ceiling and higher floor than Isaac. But, that is hard to do when people troll my posts for the explicit intent of bashing me. I guess if I don't agree with your rhetoric, then I must endure constant character attacks.

That usually happens when people cannot debate. They can only attack.

That's fine, but your comparison of Isaac made me puke in my mouth! I wasn't trying to troll, just like you weren't trying to find a good comparison.

The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.

Cuzzo, you need to put your reading glasses back on. There was no player comparisons being made between Dwight and Isaac. I said the Magic have been anchored by good Centers when they made the Finals in the past and that Isaac could be our Center the next time it happens. Don't be confusing that as Isaac player comparisons between Dwight or Shaq. heh

[BadMofoPimp]

That's fine, but your comparison of Isaac made me puke in my mouth! I wasn't trying to troll, just like you weren't trying to find a good comparison.

The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.

Cuzzo, you need to put your reading glasses back on. There was no player comparisons being made between Dwight and Isaac. I said the Magic have been anchored by good Centers when they made the Finals in the past and that Isaac could be our Center the next time it happens. Don't be confusing that as Isaac player comparisons between Dwight or Shaq. heh

Since NOBODY read my post, I said:

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

That is all I said in regards to your original post.

Then, people attack me personally over something which was no worse than your original post. People act like I am not allowed to disagree.

Personally, I think Isaac's ceiling is no greater than AG's. We have gone after the best athlete in the last few drafts aka Dipo, Mario, AG instead of intangibles. DSJ has a leadership mentality, a great shot way past 3 point range and great ability. Thus, a higher ceiling over a player who is mainly another athlete. Or, we can go another 5-10 years drafting athletes praying for the next Dwight.

[Skin]

Honestlly, if Isaac is today even 60% of what some of you guys hype him to be- he would be biggest nobrainer 1# pick since Lebron James. But ,as always, because you feel like he could be Magic pick, you feel need to talk yourself into loving him.

Guy above said it best. By all stats he was medicore college player on offense . Right now he is raw , long and athletic combo wing prospect who will need time and space to develop. And some of your comments going into "5 years from now" - pls stop it. 5 years ago Roy Hibbert and Derron Williams were allstars and Bynum was allstar starter. In nba 5 years is lifetime ago. NBA prospects ,rookies and young players don't have 5 years. They have 3 if they are lucky, most of them have year- year and half until team decides to move in another direction. By the year three half of them are trade baits for more picks. That's cruel reality of NBA (litreally, out of top 12 picks in 2014, 6 of them were already traded )


I'm not saying it because i'm some blind hater, but you are setting yourself to disappointment. Most rookies suck. Even more if they play on awful teams. Don't do it to yourself. Magic, and whoever they pick have looooong , uphill battle to fight until we can say that team finally turned around.

He's not a no brainer because his skills are raw. He's 19 years old. That happens to be the norm.

Sorry, but if there was a player I would be talking myself into because I think the Magic will take him, it would be Jayson Tatum. That guy packs a weak old school game with below average athleticism and because he went to Duke a lot of people love him. Nah man... I'm not talking myself into liking him because I think he's going to be the Magic's pick. Look at the voting thread where he's in 3rd place behind Tatum and DSJ. C'mon pepe.

Also, don't take that 5 year comment to mean he won't be anything before then. I was just pointing out BY THEN, he could be incredible. No one can tell the future, so he'll have to work hard to get there, but there's no reason to put limitations on him based on injury, lack of skill, feel for the game, IQ or character issues.

I'm not trying to say I won't be happy with anyone else either. Been a long time fan of Josh Jackson and Dennis Smith.

[Skin]

The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.

Cuzzo, you need to put your reading glasses back on. There was no player comparisons being made between Dwight and Isaac. I said the Magic have been anchored by good Centers when they made the Finals in the past and that Isaac could be our Center the next time it happens. Don't be confusing that as Isaac player comparisons between Dwight or Shaq. heh

Since NOBODY read my post, I said:

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

That is all I said in regards to your original post.

Then, people attack me personally over something which was no worse than your original post. Yet, nobody attacked you. People make up their own conclusions in their own minds.

What do you mean by DSJ becoming the next Lillard? That he'll be a PG to lead his team to multiple first round playoff exits?

Cause my reference to Isaac and Dwight was more along those lines of "leading the Magic" than it was in comparing the kind of player he could become.

[BadMofoPimp]

Cuzzo, you need to put your reading glasses back on. There was no player comparisons being made between Dwight and Isaac. I said the Magic have been anchored by good Centers when they made the Finals in the past and that Isaac could be our Center the next time it happens. Don't be confusing that as Isaac player comparisons between Dwight or Shaq. heh

Since NOBODY read my post, I said:

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

That is all I said in regards to your original post.

Then, people attack me personally over something which was no worse than your original post. Yet, nobody attacked you. People make up their own conclusions in their own minds.

What do you mean by DSJ becoming the next Lillard? That he'll be a PG to lead his team to multiple first round playoff exits?

Cause my reference to Isaac and Dwight was more along those lines of "leading the Magic" than it was in comparing the kind of player he could become.

How much of that is Lilliards fault? Did his 27ppg 6ast not impress you enough? This is a team sport first and foremost. The Blazers do not have a solid team right now. The Magic need leadership and scoring, things that DSJ could bring. They have enough athletes already. I wouldn't be opposed to Isaac if DSJ is gone at #6 tho!

[Ducklett]

DSJ is getting a lot of love from the advanced stats and analytics guys. I think he shot the best from NBA 3 point in all of the top 8.

[Xatticus]

Since NOBODY read my post, I said:



That is all I said in regards to your original post.

Then, people attack me personally over something which was no worse than your original post. Yet, nobody attacked you. People make up their own conclusions in their own minds.

What do you mean by DSJ becoming the next Lillard? That he'll be a PG to lead his team to multiple first round playoff exits?

Cause my reference to Isaac and Dwight was more along those lines of "leading the Magic" than it was in comparing the kind of player he could become.

How much of that is Lilliards fault? Did his 27ppg 6ast not impress you enough? This is a team sport first and foremost. The Blazers do not have a solid team right now. The Magic need leadership and scoring, things that DSJ could bring. They have enough athletes already. I wouldn't be opposed to Isaac if DSJ is gone at #6 tho!

I really don't see DSJ as a leader. His body language was often poor and the rumors have been that he wasn't well-liked in the locker room. You really have to cherry-pick his stats to call him a great shooter. I'm very skeptical about the 3-point shooting line of someone that shoots 2-point jumpers at a rate scarcely above 30 percent and hits a lower percentage of their free throws than De'aaron Fox. Between DSJ and Isaac, DSJ's value is far more reliant on his athleticism than is Isaac's. DSJ is an athletic iso PG in the mold of Marbury.

[Skin]

Since NOBODY read my post, I said:



That is all I said in regards to your original post.

Then, people attack me personally over something which was no worse than your original post. Yet, nobody attacked you. People make up their own conclusions in their own minds.

What do you mean by DSJ becoming the next Lillard? That he'll be a PG to lead his team to multiple first round playoff exits?

Cause my reference to Isaac and Dwight was more along those lines of "leading the Magic" than it was in comparing the kind of player he could become.

How much of that is Lilliards fault? Did his 27ppg 6ast not impress you enough? This is a team sport first and foremost. The Blazers do not have a solid team right now. The Magic need leadership and scoring, things that DSJ could bring. They have enough athletes already. I wouldn't be opposed to Isaac if DSJ is gone at #6 tho!

Side stepping the discussion. I never said Isaac should be compare to Dwight as a player. That's misinterpretation or trolling.

I wouldn't be opposed to DSJ at 6 tho!

[Instincts]

Hmm...actually an interesting distinction. Does dsj have the intanglable advantage over Isaac? I do see where you might say that due to dsj being considered an "alpha". But my biggest concern with dsj is the lack of effort he has shown at times this year, yes on a losing team, but is that a reason to show no effort? To me that is complete opposite of intangibles, to show no effort in the face of adversity, NBA teammates of course will not respond well to that. And in fact it is isaac that shows 100% effort at all times on the court, leading by example, as I would say a true leader does.

The OP compared Isaac to a potential Dwight and I retorted.

Instead of following the thread, people attacked my character. That is not right and some people, not yourself, attack most posts I make many times without valid arguments just because I don't agree with them.

Cuzzo, you need to put your reading glasses back on. There was no player comparisons being made between Dwight and Isaac. I said the Magic have been anchored by good Centers when they made the Finals in the past and that Isaac could be our Center the next time it happens. Don't be confusing that as Isaac player comparisons between Dwight or Shaq. heh

Since NOBODY read my post, I said:

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

That is all I said in regards to your original post.

Then, people attack me personally over something which was no worse than your original post. People act like I am not allowed to disagree.

Personally, I think Isaac's ceiling is no greater than AG's. We have gone after the best athlete in the last few drafts aka Dipo, Mario, AG instead of intangibles. DSJ has a leadership mentality, a great shot way past 3 point range and great ability. Thus, a higher ceiling over a player who is mainly another athlete. Or, we can go another 5-10 years drafting athletes praying for the next Dwight.

[PennytoShaq]

Honestlly, if Isaac is today even 60% of what some of you guys hype him to be- he would be biggest nobrainer 1# pick since Lebron James. But ,as always, because you feel like he could be Magic pick, you feel need to talk yourself into loving him.

Well, none of this is remotely true. May want to get out of your own head now and then.

[Ducklett]

Hmm...actually an interesting distinction. Does dsj have the intanglable advantage over Isaac? I do see where you might say that due to dsj being considered an "alpha". But my biggest concern with dsj is the lack of effort he has shown at times this year, yes on a losing team, but is that a reason to show no effort? To me that is complete opposite of intangibles, to show no effort in the face of adversity, NBA teammates of course will not respond well to that. And in fact it is isaac that shows 100% effort at all times on the court, leading by example, as I would say a true leader does.

Cuzzo, you need to put your reading glasses back on. There was no player comparisons being made between Dwight and Isaac. I said the Magic have been anchored by good Centers when they made the Finals in the past and that Isaac could be our Center the next time it happens. Don't be confusing that as Isaac player comparisons between Dwight or Shaq. heh

Since NOBODY read my post, I said:

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

That is all I said in regards to your original post.

Then, people attack me personally over something which was no worse than your original post. People act like I am not allowed to disagree.

Personally, I think Isaac's ceiling is no greater than AG's. We have gone after the best athlete in the last few drafts aka Dipo, Mario, AG instead of intangibles. DSJ has a leadership mentality, a great shot way past 3 point range and great ability. Thus, a higher ceiling over a player who is mainly another athlete. Or, we can go another 5-10 years drafting athletes praying for the next Dwight.

Is there any chance that you are confusing "giving up" with being gassed because he just came off of a major injury and he had to do literally everything on a bad team? LeBron takes plays off too when he starts getting a bit gassed, I guess the Cavs should have passed on him.

[fendilim]

If DSJ is off the board at the time we pick, I'm all for Isaac. I don't think we should be looking for a guy which fits next to Gordon (or anyone else on our roster). We are looking for a guy to build around.

But is he a guy to build around?

I think DSJ has a better chance of becoming the next Lilliard than Isaac becoming the next Dwight. That is a given.

If you mean he'll become like Dwight, never.

If you mean be a star of this team, possible. But I don't think that would be promising as DSJ. DSJ radiates alpha male. Isaac' don't seem to have the personality to be able to do so.

[fendilim]

If DSJ is off the board at the time we pick, I'm all for Isaac. I don't think we should be looking for a guy which fits next to Gordon (or anyone else on our roster). We are looking for a guy to build around.

But is he a guy to build around?

You wanna know who's the guy to build around? Really?

There's no such thing as sure thing, son. This is draft, a lottery, a crapshoot, an "easy way out" that can never be obtained. You take your number and wait. I'm feeling DSJ is as good of a call as any. If he ain't there, I'll take Isaac.

I'd bank on a guy like DSJ that a 3 and D guy as someone I'd build around.

If Isaac can be that guy, I'm sure he should have had a bigger role in college than being a 3 and D guy with 35% from 3.

[MasterGMer]

As an FSU fan I have been on the Isaac train as long as anybody. I am down to him or DSJ as my top 2. I do like Tatum for the Magic as well, but Isaac has a crazy high ceiling. I also agree that the whole "win now" thing is overrated because we are not beating Cleveland for 2-3 years and we will need star players to even do it. Additionally, if we did beat Cleveland one day, we would have to face Golden State since Durant is taking less money to keep that team together. So you need a team who can match up against those guys. Gordon and Isaac would be able to defend Green and Durant as well as anybody could hope to.

This team will not be built in one draft. That is the problem some people have trouble understanding. If we can get 2 starters out of it, that would be a huge win.

Only reason we wouldn't get Isaac, imo, is because the depth of the PGs in this class. Ball, Fox, DSJ all could easily be NBA star players. And one will fall to us.

So we have already given up on Payton, huh?

[Landshark]

What do you mean by DSJ becoming the next Lillard? That he'll be a PG to lead his team to multiple first round playoff exits?

Cause my reference to Isaac and Dwight was more along those lines of "leading the Magic" than it was in comparing the kind of player he could become.

How much of that is Lilliards fault? Did his 27ppg 6ast not impress you enough? This is a team sport first and foremost. The Blazers do not have a solid team right now. The Magic need leadership and scoring, things that DSJ could bring. They have enough athletes already. I wouldn't be opposed to Isaac if DSJ is gone at #6 tho!

I really don't see DSJ as a leader. His body language was often poor and the rumors have been that he wasn't well-liked in the locker room. You really have to cherry-pick his stats to call him a great shooter. I'm very skeptical about the 3-point shooting line of someone that shoots 2-point jumpers at a rate scarcely above 30 percent and hits a lower percentage of their free throws than De'aaron Fox. Between DSJ and Isaac, DSJ's value is far more reliant on his athleticism than is Isaac's. DSJ is an athletic iso PG in the mold of Marbury.

Where did you hear the rumor that he wasn't well-liked in the locker room?

[fendilim]

What do you mean by DSJ becoming the next Lillard? That he'll be a PG to lead his team to multiple first round playoff exits?

Cause my reference to Isaac and Dwight was more along those lines of "leading the Magic" than it was in comparing the kind of player he could become.

How much of that is Lilliards fault? Did his 27ppg 6ast not impress you enough? This is a team sport first and foremost. The Blazers do not have a solid team right now. The Magic need leadership and scoring, things that DSJ could bring. They have enough athletes already. I wouldn't be opposed to Isaac if DSJ is gone at #6 tho!

I really don't see DSJ as a leader. His body language was often poor and the rumors have been that he wasn't well-liked in the locker room. You really have to cherry-pick his stats to call him a great shooter. I'm very skeptical about the 3-point shooting line of someone that shoots 2-point jumpers at a rate scarcely above 30 percent and hits a lower percentage of their free throws than De'aaron Fox. Between DSJ and Isaac, DSJ's value is far more reliant on his athleticism than is Isaac's. DSJ is an athletic iso PG in the mold of Marbury.

Why is he not well-liked?

There are a lot of good players not like by his teammates because of their competitive nature. Chris Paul for example. But then you also have guys like Dwight.

[fendilim]

The problem with Isaac is he hasn't proven that he can be a scorer, all he did in college was to play a Trevor Ariza role.

Just look at our team now and compare it to Skiles' time. Its clear that Vogel is a better coach than Skiles, but why is it that his record is better than Vogel?

Thanks to Ola and Harris being able to create for their own. While they are not elite scorers, Ola and Harris are certainly better than any of our players last year creating scoring opportunities.

Isaac reminds me a lot of Otto Porter/Trevor Ariza. I definitely do not think a player like that is someone you build around.

We need a guy who can create GOOD scoring opportunity for himself and his teammates, not someone who has to rely on their teammates to score - we already have too much of that.