Official Offseason Thread 9.0: The Long Road to October

[eyriq]

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[T-Cat]

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I'm here for the positivity of Franz this upcoming season!

I find Franz a more valuable player right now than Luka because of his two way ability! Luka is skilled but dominates the ball more than Franz.

Maybe Coach Mosley can let Franz be our point forward (Scottie Pippen) and Paolo be our Jordan.

[yoyojw17]

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I'm here for the positivity of Franz this upcoming season!

I find Franz a more valuable player right now than Luka because of his two way ability! Luka is skilled but dominates the ball more than Franz.

Maybe Coach Mosley can let Franz be our point forward (Scottie Pippen) and Paolo be our Jordan.

His two way ability is very much overlooked in his value. He's maturing well! One thing I'm hoping for is Paolo to continue taking steps forward on that end and that others help him shoulder the offense.

[jezzerinho]

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I'm here for the positivity of Franz this upcoming season!

I find Franz a more valuable player right now than Luka because of his two way ability! Luka is skilled but dominates the ball more than Franz.

Maybe Coach Mosley can let Franz be our point forward (Scottie Pippen) and Paolo be our Jordan.

His two way ability is very much overlooked in his value. He's maturing well! One thing I'm hoping for is Paolo to continue taking steps forward on that end and that others help him shoulder the offense.

It feels to me that pretty much everything about Franz is overlooked by media and basketball fans alike.

Because he's not a me-first, get my stats and run type of player, he seems not to be flashy or interesting enough for people to latch onto.

And yet he's a key part of so many winning teams and game situations that at some point you have to acknowledge that maybe what he's doing - as unheralded as it seems to be - is far more successful for him and his teams than a lot of other players with way more hype.

In short, Franz is a winner. He does stuff that makes his team win games. It kind of amazes me that this ability of his isn't appreciated more.

But when you see how individual-centric American basketball is, from the NBA to the national team, it shouldn't surprise that selfless players get overlooked in favour of selfish ones.

Most of the top 10 players in the NBA are international and many of the top 30 are. The Celtics, Nuggets and Bucks have all won titles recently playing team-oriented, cerebral basketball.

Yet it seems the media and peripheral industry hasn't caught onto what really wins games and titles

Players like Franz really win games.

[Knightro]

It feels to me that pretty much everything about Franz is overlooked by media and basketball fans alike.

Because he's not a me-first, get my stats and run type of player, he seems not to be flashy or interesting enough for people to latch onto.

And yet he's a key part of so many winning teams and game situations that at some point you have to acknowledge that maybe what he's doing - as unheralded as it seems to be - is far more successful for him and his teams than a lot of other players with way more hype.

In short, Franz is a winner. He does stuff that makes his team win games. It kind of amazes me that this ability of his isn't appreciated more.

But when you see how individual-centric American basketball is, from the NBA to the national team, it shouldn't surprise that selfless players get overlooked in favour of selfish ones.

Most of the top 10 players in the NBA are international and many of the top 30 are. The Celtics, Nuggets and Bucks have all won titles recently playing team-oriented, cerebral basketball.

Yet it seems the media and peripheral industry hasn't caught onto what really wins games and titles

Players like Franz really win games.

You get it.

[pepe1991]

Franz is my favorite Magic player, but top 20 in nba today exlcudes guys like Kawhi, Kyrie, Mitchell etc, if he is top 20 player indeed he would best Magic player ( by very wide margin ).

[drsd]

Franz is my favorite Magic player, but top 20 in nba today exlcudes guys like Kawhi, Kyrie, Mitchell etc, if he is top 20 player indeed he would best Magic player ( by very wide margin ).

By PER, even M-Wagner is a better player ( )

Seriously though, by advanced stats, the Ringer has F-Wagner as the NBA's 58th best player. That passes the smell test. It puts him in the top-half of NBA starters, but below all-star level. Yeh: let's go with 58.

p.s. Banchero is at 29 in that ranking which is "marginal all-star". Again, sounds exactly correct.

[eyriq]

Top 20 implies top 4 at his position. Definitely within reach.

[jezzerinho]

Wade on Franz: "I put on my Instagram that I’ve just become a big fan of Franz Wagner. You don’t get to see Orlando Magic a lot on TV. And so to be able to see him up close and personal, we just saw something pretty special,” Wade praised Wagner. “This guy has a big, bright future in front of him."

[Mc-o]

Franz is my favorite Magic player, but top 20 in nba today exlcudes guys like Kawhi, Kyrie, Mitchell etc, if he is top 20 player indeed he would best Magic player ( by very wide margin ).

Yeah , Kevin o Connor is alluding to inside joke with co
Host from His podcast

[RichCollab]

Paolo needs to aim for top 20 and Franz top 40 this season.

[Kent]

In short, Franz is a winner. He does stuff that makes his team win games. It kind of amazes me that this ability of his isn't appreciated more.

You get it.

100% this.

You need guys with winner mentality.

Franz has it and I've said this as well.

[T-Cat]

Paolo needs to aim for top 20 and Franz top 40 this season.

I think Orlando has something special this season! If the coaching staff is willing to let Jonathan Isaac play big minutes, we could have our big 3!

[VFX]

Both Franz and Paolo need to be MUCH better shooters to reach the level of expectations people have for them.

Franz just signed a MAX contract.

If he is going to get paid MAX, then he needs to either be an insurmountably better shooter AND/OR a first team all defense guy.

[Knightro]

Both Franz and Paolo need to be MUCH better shooters to reach the level of expectations people have for them.

Franz just signed a MAX contract.

If he is going to get paid MAX, then he needs to either be an insurmountably better shooter AND/OR a first team all defense guy.

This is extreme.

Franz is already so good at everything else, that if he simply upticks his 3PT shot back to where it was in Year 2 (league average 36%), he'll be a no questions asked all-star. The rest of his game is that good and still very much trending upward.

He absolutely does not have to become a 40%+ 3PT shooter to be worth his contract.

[Knightro]

This whole Franz discourse...

I just don't think people understand how rare it is to have a big wing who averages 20-5-4, plays good defense, scores relentlessly at the basket and doesn't really turn the ball over that much. There's just aren't many of those guys on this planet!

The only thing Franz needs to do is uptick his 3PT% back to an acceptable level OR if he can't do that, figure out a way to spike his FT rate to Giannis/Butler/DeRozan levels to make up for it. That's really it. If he does nothing else, matches exactly what he did last year in every other category, but shoots 36% instead of 28%, he'll be on of the 20 best players in the league for real.

[VFX]

Both Franz and Paolo need to be MUCH better shooters to reach the level of expectations people have for them.

Franz just signed a MAX contract.

If he is going to get paid MAX, then he needs to either be an insurmountably better shooter AND/OR a first team all defense guy.

This is extreme.

Franz is already so good at everything else, that if he simply upticks his 3PT shot back to where it was in Year 2 (league average 36%), he'll be a no questions asked all-star. The rest of his game is that good and still very much trending upward.

He absolutely does not have to become a 40%+ 3PT shooter to be worth his contract.

Then you are very much paying him for his potential to be better.

However, this is no different than paying Barnes or Cade their max as well.

Franz isnt really "elite" at anything . Maybe you could argue driving to them rim. He's average or above average at everything else. What do you expect he is going to be elite at in his career now as a max level player?

Lets also not get confused that I value Franz as Orlando's best player. The Magic are going nowhere without him Paolo, and Suggs.

[drsd]

Franz isnt really "elite" at anything .

There is a limit to that logic though.

for example: Scottie Pippen wasn't elite at anything either - on offense at least (career 16/5/4 player). But he was above average at every single NBA skill and was all-universe as a defender, meaning he was elite on the eye-test.

If F-Wagner becomes a top-5 SF, I would tab the word "elite" on him.

[T-Cat]

Franz isnt really "elite" at anything .

There is a limit to that logic though.

for example: Scottie Pippen wasn't elite at anything either - on offense at least (career 16/5/4 player). But he was above average at every single NBA skill and was all-universe as a defender, meaning he was elite on the eye-test.

If F-Wagner becomes a top-5 SF, I would tab the word "elite" on him.

Kinda of topic but I just noticed we have 2 first round picks for this upcoming draft! One of them is Denver pick Top 5 protected.

[VFX]

Franz isnt really "elite" at anything .

There is a limit to that logic though.

for example: Scottie Pippen wasn't elite at anything either - on offense at least (career 16/5/4 player). But he was above average at every single NBA skill and was all-universe as a defender, meaning he was elite on the eye-test.

If F-Wagner becomes a top-5 SF, I would tab the word "elite" on him.

The only way I would consider a max level guy that isn’t necessarily elite at anything worthy of it is if they were a Jimmy Butler caliber of player capable of completely taking over and closing out games.