Official Orlando Magic Training Camp Thread - Practices Underway

[tooler]

Defensive intensity is probably like 10% of the reason we are defensively elite. A drop off there will have a negligible impact on our defense imo.

Our anchor-by-committee, perimeter size and mobility, defensive rebounding, and elite system aren't going to suffer overmuch from a shift in energy towards offense.

This make zero sense. Intensity is the only way to be a good defensive team. Doesn't matter how big you are, NBA players will eat you alive if you play soft.

Zero sense? Everyone in the NBA plays hard, effort is a baseline not a differentiator. Weltman deliberately drafted for wingspan, size, and mobility, then Mosley built a system that leverages those physical edges to control the rim, shrink passing lanes, and suppress high-value shots; intensity fuels it, but attributes and scheme are what elevate the defense to elite. This is a defense first build by design.

Not everyone in the NBA plays hard. This is why a lot of Thibodeau teams peter out in the playoffs. He has his best guys play a lot of minutes and they play hard. But in the playoffs, everyone does that. So it’s no longer an X factor to goose the regular season.

I’m not worried about this at all because the team is also getting older. The intensity was to make up for the youth.

[eyriq]

This make zero sense. Intensity is the only way to be a good defensive team. Doesn't matter how big you are, NBA players will eat you alive if you play soft.

Zero sense? Everyone in the NBA plays hard, effort is a baseline not a differentiator. Weltman deliberately drafted for wingspan, size, and mobility, then Mosley built a system that leverages those physical edges to control the rim, shrink passing lanes, and suppress high-value shots; intensity fuels it, but attributes and scheme are what elevate the defense to elite. This is a defense first build by design.

Not everyone in the NBA plays hard. This is why a lot of Thibodeau teams peter out in the playoffs. He has his best guys play a lot of minutes and they play hard. But in the playoffs, everyone does that. So it’s no longer an X factor to goose the regular season.

I’m not worried about this at all because the team is also getting older. The intensity was to make up for the youth.

The best defenders aren’t great because they try harder, they’re great because their size, length, and IQ (like Wemby, Gobert, Mobley, Draymond) let them change the court in ways effort alone never could. That's the real differentiator and we have advantages there that won't go away just because we dial down the intensity.

[SOUL]

It's just energy expenditure. You can rely on your fundamentals and team defense when you need to "rest" or conserve energy, compared to balls to the wall pressing up and switching everything and aggressively attacking close outs. Some games will call for more of that, some games less.

We also aren't going to go from a bottom pace team to the fastest paced team, it's just getting out and running with more opportunities on missed baskets and taking advantage of size and athleticism. Thunder were a decently high pace with an elite defense, so it's possible. But we do have more big men, while most of their elite defenders are guards.

[jezzerinho]

Zero sense? Everyone in the NBA plays hard, effort is a baseline not a differentiator. Weltman deliberately drafted for wingspan, size, and mobility, then Mosley built a system that leverages those physical edges to control the rim, shrink passing lanes, and suppress high-value shots; intensity fuels it, but attributes and scheme are what elevate the defense to elite. This is a defense first build by design.

Not everyone in the NBA plays hard. This is why a lot of Thibodeau teams peter out in the playoffs. He has his best guys play a lot of minutes and they play hard. But in the playoffs, everyone does that. So it’s no longer an X factor to goose the regular season.

I’m not worried about this at all because the team is also getting older. The intensity was to make up for the youth.

The best defenders aren’t great because they try harder, they’re great because their size, length, and IQ (like Wemby, Gobert, Mobley, Draymond) let them change the court in ways effort alone never could. That's the real differentiator and we have advantages there that won't go away just because we dial down the intensity.

Nobody thinks those advantages will go away. But if the players make less effort on defence - ceterus paribus- the defence will be worse.

[eyriq]

Not everyone in the NBA plays hard. This is why a lot of Thibodeau teams peter out in the playoffs. He has his best guys play a lot of minutes and they play hard. But in the playoffs, everyone does that. So it’s no longer an X factor to goose the regular season.

I’m not worried about this at all because the team is also getting older. The intensity was to make up for the youth.

The best defenders aren’t great because they try harder, they’re great because their size, length, and IQ (like Wemby, Gobert, Mobley, Draymond) let them change the court in ways effort alone never could. That's the real differentiator and we have advantages there that won't go away just because we dial down the intensity.

Nobody thinks those advantages will go away. But if the players make less effort on defence - ceterus paribus- the defence will be worse.

The difference will be negligible

[RookieStar]

Both things can be true... or false ( however you wanna look at it)

Our "elite" physical advantage is half with our "intangibles" in creating probably the best defense in the league. You dial one down, you cannot expect the same results unless the other half is dialed up to compensate for the other.

To the OGs here, I remember when we got Steven Hunter and I thought wow.. a high flying , shot blocking, quick 7 footer to cover for Tmac and the rest... elite measurements but physicality/desire/etc? Then we got guys like Rodman Barkley and Draymond.... need I say more?

[tooler]

This season seems real chill to me now that Weltman finally got some shooting and guards. As a fan there’s always some tension when the team keeps trotting out the same nonsense. The definition of insanity and all that. Now on paper the team seems good, so it’s just a matter of health and the coaching staff, who seem to know the assignment.

So I look forward to simply watching how it plays out. The frustration factor is very low to start out.

[drsd]

Jett Howard is totally irrelevant now. Hes an afterthought at best.

Almost, but not exactly. What he is is a a $5,529,720 contact that will be the financial part of a mid-season trade. Sad that his "relevance" is insurance to stay under an apron.

[drsd]

We all want to be excited from 1-14. The quote on Mr #14 did make me laugh though:


Should we laugh or cry?

Jett Howard is totally irrelevant now. Hes an afterthought at best. He has probably 13 properly prepared professionals ahead of him in the pecking order. If we need to give him minutes, the wheels will aready have come off.

Sacrifice an already dead bull?

[TheChaser]

Guys, I am finally getting to sit down and read about training camp day 1 and I just wanted to let you all know just how excited I AM!!!

[drsd]

What? These dudes are not 19yrs old anymore. How could they gain height?

[drsd]

Interesting videos from after day-1 of camp.

Some things that stood out to me.

Mosley confirmed that Suggs was completely involved in 5-0 drills, but no contact. Still: a full workout, cuts, etc.
M-Wagner was only walking through drills and doing shooting.

Banchero stated the Magic players ignore the CBA and are disinterested in 1st vs 2nd apron issues. He actually said twice, "I am not educated on the CBA."
That said, he stated that there is a basic understanding that winning is how the team stays together. As Banchero "likes this team", he was using winning as a motivator in staying connected. He did not get pulled into a narrative on "what is the window"? Basically he thinks the goal is winning and everything else is detail.

F-Wagner confirmed that "all players got taller". He said that in jest and noted all players have higher hair; so it must be that.

Bane's interview supports that he also "likes this team."

[Knightro]

Zero sense? Everyone in the NBA plays hard, effort is a baseline not a differentiator. Weltman deliberately drafted for wingspan, size, and mobility, then Mosley built a system that leverages those physical edges to control the rim, shrink passing lanes, and suppress high-value shots; intensity fuels it, but attributes and scheme are what elevate the defense to elite. This is a defense first build by design.

This is decidedly not true. Especially in the regular season.

[eyriq]

Zero sense? Everyone in the NBA plays hard, effort is a baseline not a differentiator. Weltman deliberately drafted for wingspan, size, and mobility, then Mosley built a system that leverages those physical edges to control the rim, shrink passing lanes, and suppress high-value shots; intensity fuels it, but attributes and scheme are what elevate the defense to elite. This is a defense first build by design.

This is decidedly not true. Especially in the regular season.

I just don't think effort is as big of a differentiator as you make it out to be.

[Knightro]

Read on Twitter

If I'm reading the numbers correctly...

BLACK JERSEYS: Jalen Suggs, Desmond Bane, Jamal Cain, Paolo Banchero, Orlando Robinson
WHITE JERSEYS: Anthony Black, Jett Howard, Noah Penda, Jonathan Isaac, Collin Castleton

On the sidelines: Tyus Jones, Goga Bitadze, Wendell Carter Jr.

Not sure if Suggs was actually on the court or just ran in from the sideline to dap Paolo.

[Knightro]

I just don't think effort is as big of a differentiator as you make it out to be.

You're right.

It's even bigger than I am suggesting.

[T-Cat]

Is Suggs going to be hurt every season of his career?

[eyriq]

I just don't think effort is as big of a differentiator as you make it out to be.

You're right.

It's even bigger than I am suggesting.

Do you agree with this framing?

Here’s a breakdown of variance in NBA wins and the percentage explained:

Talent & Fit — 50%
Health & Availability — 12%
Shooting Variance & Luck — 12%
Schedule & Rest/Travel Context — 8%
Coaching & Tactics — 7%
Effort & Execution Intensity — 6%
Home-Court & Arena Effects — 3%
Officiating Variance — 2%

If that’s the model, then the debate over effort boils down to whether the swing is closer to zero or closer to six percentage points.

[Knightro]

Do you agree with this framing?

Here’s a breakdown of variance in NBA wins and the percentage explained:

Talent & Fit — 50%
Health & Availability — 12%
Shooting Variance & Luck — 12%
Schedule & Rest/Travel Context — 8%
Coaching & Tactics — 7%
Effort & Execution Intensity — 6%
Home-Court & Arena Effects — 3%
Officiating Variance — 2%

If that’s the model, then the debate over effort boils down to whether the swing is closer to zero or closer to six percentage points.

These are just made up numbers.

[eyriq]

Do you agree with this framing?

Here’s a breakdown of variance in NBA wins and the percentage explained:

Talent & Fit — 50%
Health & Availability — 12%
Shooting Variance & Luck — 12%
Schedule & Rest/Travel Context — 8%
Coaching & Tactics — 7%
Effort & Execution Intensity — 6%
Home-Court & Arena Effects — 3%
Officiating Variance — 2%

If that’s the model, then the debate over effort boils down to whether the swing is closer to zero or closer to six percentage points.

These are just made up numbers.

Of course they are. Every opinion is “made up”, the difference is whether it’s structured or hand-waved. I’m laying out my mental model as a factor-importance framework. The point isn’t that the numbers are immutable facts, it’s that when you map the variance this way, it shows why your claim about effort oversells its actual impact.